Anybody have any ideas on how they would procede with something like this?
It should be different for every person.
I would probably take my inspiration from the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey.
A super-acid-trip-dungeon.
You could draw inspiration or adapt the Undermoutain (a high level everchanging dungeon from Forgotten Realms) or maybe an updated version of Returm to the Tomb of Horrors.
Humbly,
Yawar
LoL it is the World's Largest Dungeon jk. I've thought about looking back in some 3.5 content and looking under the dragonlance setting on there tests of high sorcery
I want them to get a fair shake. However I also see putting a level requirement on even embarking on something like this.
This subject has come up before. It should be noted that that is a less than 1% success rate so the first thing to do is consider how hard you want it to be.
Also will each player have his own trial to go through at a certain point.
See they've told me they're okay with ending the game there meaning if they sucede and become gods they make new characters and if they fail they die and make new characters. They've also asked if they could do the test together and then be melded inot one being to form the new god.
So the only question left is how hard you want to be then and/or making a final decision on an adventure to run.
well they are wanting to do it as part of the game they are running now.
I know where to begin the Leap of Faith after that I'm a little fuzzy.
What level are they?
12th currently
thanks for your suggestions dragonfire all good ideas
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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By the way, in the Inner Sea Guide it mentions that there have been people who have escaped death in the test with great treasure but not godhood.
I would build it in sections, with each section harder and harder then the last. I would have a huge variety of challenges, so don't just do combat. Have some role play moments, some with the gods themselves (maybe in disguise,) others with guardians, maybe a few with NPCs who have been lost in the test for years.
The location itself shifts and moves, (like the labyrinth in the movie Labyrinth.) This should mean the party won't be able to backtrack. If they do, make it a challenge that could result in a TPK.
If you can, and you have time, check out the Fablehaven book series. They have some really cool and inventive dungeon crawls that you could pull ideas from.
Here are some of my favorites lightly adapted to Pathfinder:
- Floating bubbles that if poped, release a fleash eating gas.
- A floor painted with hundreds and hundreds of monsters. They
range from weak to scary strong and they are all locked into a battle. None of them have weapons. If the party tries to cross the floor with weapons, the weapon(s) disappears from the PC and a monster appears for each weapon. Each monster is wielding the weapon that was taken from the PC. When the monster is killed, the weapon drops to the ground. If it is picked up the process starts again with a new monster. Each time a monster appears, they are stronger then the last.
- An invisible maze that deals a deal of pain to anyone who touches the walls.
- A room with a sand floor. Deadly quicksand randomly appears every few rounds in random spots. On the wall are paintings of various monsters. Each monster is holding a key. The only way out is through a locked door. If someone touches a painting they come to life. In order to gain the key the party needs to defeat one of the monsters on the wall.
You could really do anything with it. I would just go wild and hope for the best.
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I would start with their Domains/Portfolios. What kind of deities will they be when they ascend? How similar will you allow them to be to other gods in the Pathfinder Pantheon? How true to the character (as they've played them to this point) will their deified version have to be?
The challenges you throw at them, don't necessarily have to be individually tailored to the PC's. But, you can measure their success partially based on how closely they hold to their characters/portfolios.
Good point Caleb and Crusader. Maybe surviving is not enough to become a deity, but you will at least leave rich. :)
I'd say this is definitely something where you can be a bit loose with the rules. Have an idea of how difficult you want things to be (dc, save, etc wise), and it'd be fine to wing it a lot more than you might normally.
There should definitely be individual challenges, where for instance the PC has to relive a past tragedy (from backstory or in play), and try to accomplish some goal; for instance they've got the chance to save their long lost sister, but should they? moral quandry stuff; or else they simply have to relive the worst moments of their life, over, and over, and over, and over, and... you get the idea.
On the other end of the spectrum they should be tempted as well; ahead they can see a room full of wondrous treasures, or a vision of a throne room full of people, an empty throne, and a priest looking expectantly at the PC, while down another fork there is a damsel in distress/attrocities being commited, their most hated foe back from the dead, what have you.
It really should just test everything about the pcs, as a group, and individually, physically, mentally, emotionally; play with time, perceptions, isolate them for ten years, and then throw then into a court full of people where their on trial for some dubious act during the campaing, standing next to each other awaiting sentence, while the packed room howls and bays for their blood!
That's... all very generic I know, but... it's to become a god. Throw in some impossible combats and inescapable traps, drag them to the edge of death, and beyond! Tear them screaming back from the abyss and run them through the grinder, pull out all the stops, make them die a thousand deaths, and live a hundred lives, mess with their head until they don't know what's going on, squeeze them for everything they're worth, and then do it all again!
and... wow I typed a lot :p Guess I've been thinking more about this idea then I thought :p Hope some of it helps.
EDIT: Oh! A cliche, but a good one. Make them fight themselves and each other. It's an evil duplicate, it's their best friend, it's their father, their lover, their childhood sweethearts rise from the ground and try to suck their souls from their bodies!
they must defeat a neutronium golem!
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Neutronium_golem
Make them fight GLaDOS!
Also, you'll want to look at this thread that almost has the exact same name, for ideas.
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Test of the Starstone
The Test of the Starstone is a test that anyone can take by attempting to reach the Starstone at the center of Absalom. The Starstone is surrounded by a large, deadly maze containing traps, guardians and wards.
The exact nature of the obstacles changes over time, but constant hazards include magic not always working right and prevention of extra-dimensional movement.
Those few who pass become demigods, while those who fail usually die, although a select few manage to escape, occasionally with great wealth, but no divinity. The first known person to pass the test was Aroden, who did so when he took the stone from the bottom of the sea to the Isle of Kortos in 1 AR when he founded the city of Absalom. Since then, only three of the vast number who took the test have passed: Norgorber, whose life prior to the test is unknown, Cayden Cailean, who took it on a drunken bet, and Iomedae, a worshiper of Aroden who became his herald.
The Test of the Starstone is mysterious; the only publicly known part of the test is that hopefuls must cross the bottomless pit surrounding the Starstone Cathedral without using a bridge. Crossing the pit is a necessary first step, but not sufficient to enter the cathedral and continue the test, and what has worked for one hopeful may fail for another. Hopefuls have leaped across, flown with magic, or used tightropes, and the spectacle of an attempt nearly always draws an enormous, attentive crowd.
Hope this helps...
Make them fight GLaDOS!
Also, you'll want to look at this thread that almost has the exact same name, for ideas.
I knew I had a weird sense of Deja Vu
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Take a random dungeon generator, make it as large and as cluttered as possible. Print it out. Add more rooms to it....cut each room up, and rearrange them at random (doesn't matter if their order makes any sense). Put some on top of others, some through, some in, some as upside-down mirror versions of the other.
Or, make it something really simple and underwhelming, like "what is the answer to life, the universe and everything"...and then smite the person that says 42...
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Nothing says failure must result in death. Maybe they get to the end and all they get is a Participation Ribbon or a shirt with the words, "I completed The Test of The Starstone, and all I got was this stupid shirt," emblazoned across the chest.
There is a saying: "You will either raise the bar or I will beat you with it."
I think the last part of the Test of the Starstone, and indeed the heart and soul of the matter, ought to consist of the character being given a taste of ultimate enlightenment in terms of their place in the universe. Their very essence is laid out before the cosmos, the petitioner is required to bare all in the presence of the Starstone or Whoever operates it as a "deus ex machina" (in case the Starstone itself is not intelligent). All the rationalizations, blind spots, biased self-interest, and get stripped away, and the petitioner is forced to confront all of their deepest flaws as fathomable by the most sublime of cosmic divinations.
You could borrow from the Roman virtues. In order to properly share the company of their divine predecessors, does the petitioner carry sufficient gravitas, dignity, and piety (respect for the position of deity--responsibilities and obligations as well as privileges and benefits)?
After all this, the petitioner is given the choice, and must answer the challenge: are they truly worthy of godhood? There will be no "maybe" and no "let me get back to you on that". No double-talking, no bargaining, no demagoguery, no false appeal to flawed logic. The truth will point to itself. The petitioner will know the answer, the Starstone will know the answer, and eventually everyone else will know the answer as well (whether the petitioner survives or not).
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This might be the star stone test
But you have to complete it using only npc classes...
limited to commoner...
with the chicken infested trait
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After all this, the petitioner is given the choice, and must answer the challenge: are they truly worthy of godhood? There will be no "maybe" and no "let me get back to you on that". No double-talking, no bargaining, no demagoguery, no false appeal to flawed logic. The truth will point to itself. The petitioner will know the answer, the Starstone will know the answer, and eventually everyone else will know the answer as well (whether the petitioner survives or not).
You could borrow from the Roman virtues. In order to properly share the company of their divine predecessors, does the petitioner carry sufficient gravitas, dignity, and piety (respect for the position of deity--responsibilities and obligations as well as privileges and benefits)?
Cayden Cailean pretty much invalidates those virtues.
If Greek/Roman gods like Dionysus/Bacchus can exist, then Golarion is no exception.
I shudder to think that gods of jocks, jerks and douchebags are a very real possibility.
You could borrow from the Roman virtues. In order to properly share the company of their divine predecessors, does the petitioner carry sufficient gravitas, dignity, and piety (respect for the position of deity--responsibilities and obligations as well as privileges and benefits)?Cayden Cailean pretty much invalidates those virtues.
Listen you, if I hear you talk that way about MY GOD again, I'll kick you so hard tha-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. [passes out drunk]
Which of these does Cayden Cailean lack the most in your opinion?
(Side note, I left virtus off the list accidentally)
Virtus: courage, character, worthiness. If there is anything the Starstone tests for, it's this. Cailean has this for certain.
Dignitas is, roughly speaking, one's honor, reputation, or public standing. Did Cailean have this prior to the test? He seemed to have a popular following and plenty of charisma as a mortal.
As for gravitas, lots of guys and gals you meet and know casually seem shallow and aloof at first, but once you get to know them better they show themselves to be complex and thoughtful people. Cayden is a CG's CG. He's not lazy but he is motivated to look after the causes he cares about. The Starstone makes mortals literally "larger than life" but what depth and complexity of personality did he have prior?
Regarding piety, he may have had a little of Loki's playfulness but he didn't and still doesn't exhibit the kind of rampant disrespect for his peers that would make true enemies of any of them. If Cayden Cailean had a low view of the gods closer to, say, Rahadoum or Rovagug or Razmir, he might never have passed the test (IMO). Rovagug would never have passed the test, and Razmir surely wouldn't. He knows he is completely full of it and would fail spectacularly, or he would have gone to take the test already.
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As an alternative to the self-reflection/self-criticism concept, if that's not your thing, you might try this.
The Starstone is a gateway to the demiplane of myth. Test candidates are transported to a realm where the mythic rules come into play. The actual world contained within the demiplane is the same for all tests, but the starting point changes from one instance of testing to another. If two people go in separately they enter the demiplane at points far separated and may never meet. A group who go in together will arrive at the same point.
The demiplane is a self-contained, self-aware realm of high fantasy where magic is more powerful. Perhaps include house rules for spell slots of 10th level and beyond, mainly gained as bonus spells or as would be expected according to class level if 10th level-plus spells existed for full spellcasters. In any case, there exists no level cap for metamagics to be stacked on high-level spells, while the spellcaster remains on this demiplane. (Returning as a mortal causes those extra slots to disappear.) Cost and bonus caps for magical weapons, armor, shields, and other gear are also absent, but 'epic-level' items cannot leave the demiplane without being debuffed.
The inhabitants of the demiplane of myth live and die knowing their world is hollow and finite though incredibly vast, but they're okay with it and have no desire to leave, nor will they willingly depart for the 'realm of the sky' that exists beyond. The peoples and nations of this demiplane do not correspond to anything on Golarion or the other worlds of Golarion's star system. Humans of a kind unlike any on Golarion are in predominance here, in greater proportion than outside, and any nonhumans present appear to be descendents of past visitors and Golarionese who "went native".
The demiplane is geocentric in nature, with its moons and suns and stars orbiting the planet. The world itself is enormous, with a surface area equivalent to several dozen Golarions, holding several clusters of continents--known colloquially as "realms"--separated by wide oceans far deeper than anything known outside. Gravity is Golarion-normal, however, which is strong evidence that the mythic planet itself must contain unbelievably huge pockets of empty space or networks of subterranean tunnels to account for the missing mass. (If you are a fan of the "Dungeonworld" setting, here would be a great spot to place it in your Pathfinder game.)
All the major gods of Golarion are known to the natives and nearly all have worshippers here (partly due to proselytization from previous arrivals) but the politics of the outside do not concern anyone here. In many parts of this demiplane, divine magic and spells don't seem to function well, if at all. Divine casters who arrive in a 'forbidden zone' may find their casting ability wither away. In such areas the natives' zeal for piety and reverence are no less diminished though their perception of divine influence is that the gods' influence on the mortal world is more mysterious, subtle, and spiritual, working on and within mortal hearts rather than in vulgar or awesome displays of miraculous might.
The most important aspect worth mentioning concerning the demiplane of myth is that it seems to be self-aware and interested in challenging the ambitious. There appears to be an intelligent design working behind the scenes, setting up improbable challenges and difficult puzzles for any being who shows an interest in accumulating wealth, political power, and the like. All ambition that involves meddling in the internal politics, economies, laws, and international relations of this world and its peoples is met with targeted and tailored adversities both personal and environmental. It is as though the demiplane is reacting as an organism to fight off an infection, or that bad luck has incorporated as a sentient force and has chosen the PC as its favorite plaything.
This raising up of obstacles and troubles is a gradual process and is not easily noticed at first, but only the stupid and vain will fail to notice it after too long. Interestingly, the natives of this demiplane are completely immune to this. No known spell or power will prevent this process or slow it down, nor any artifact spoken of in the legends of this demiplane, and nothing exists which will allow a PC to conceal themselves or their interference of the affairs of this world on a large scale.
Within the demiplane a PC may still gain experience but mythic tiers are also available. The test is to see how far you can get before the demiplane decides it's had enough of you and finds a way to 'force you out'. The vain and the foolish may realize their larger predicament too late, and encounter a situation severe enough to lead to certain death, while others might be intuitive enough to see what's going on but chance and bad decisions kills them off too.
PCs who are thus banished leave with all acquired powers, experience, worn and carried wealth, and mythic tiers intact (and immortality and godhood if they have obtained it by advancing far enough under the mythic rules) but all memory of the world and everything that is in it are lost (selective involuntary amnesia), as is anything written down that pertains to anything incriminating about life inside the Starstone's demiplane. Only divine intervention can restore these losses, but all the gods (old and new) share an unspoken agreement. First Rule of The Test: Nobody talks about the demiplane or what lies inside it. The gods also refuse to reverse a testee's amnesia, although any mortal who passes and reaches godhood is able to restore their own memory at will.
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Running a home brew version now. I had 3 basic challenges. The first was entering and getting to the main portion of the cathedral. Challenges included entering a tiny portal with a powerful defender (the druid had to fight it alone), making their way across a tiled floor with various affects, choosing the correct hallway to match the alignment of the character touching it, making their way individually through each hallway, and a chili challenge.
The second part was "pre-empted" in story as the gods asked the heroes to do them a favor and fight a major threat.
The third part finds the party being required to defeat 10 out of 20 champions of the primary golarion gods. The beat Iomedae's already.
At the end of part 3, they will hit level 20, and have large amounts of mythic stuff as well.
I think part of it would also having to put some aspect ahead of themselves.
So, at that part they could survive, and escape with their lives...or an impossibly impossible situation where they show how much they truly love the aspect or not and how much they will sacrifice for it (for example, on Krynn, the wizards of high sorcery and magic...must put magic ahead of all else...so for someone who will get the oversight on magic...they'd have to put magic even above life itself).
The risk of not even making it and dying must also be very real. So, perhaps even if they choose to try to make a sacrifice for that ideal...they stand a large chance of failing...perhaps they have a 1% chance to succeed per level they are...and if they don't roll equal or under that percentage...they die, their soul is cast into utter desolation into nowhere (even worse than the abyss or anything else) never to be heard of again.
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The Test of the Starstone is mysterious; the only publicly known part of the test is that hopefuls must cross the bottomless pit surrounding the Starstone Cathedral without using a bridge. Crossing the pit is a necessary first step, but not sufficient to enter the cathedral and continue the test, and what has worked for one hopeful may fail for another. Hopefuls have leaped across, flown with magic, or used tightropes, and the spectacle of an attempt nearly always draws an enormous, attentive crowd.
Iomedae used her plain wool cloak as a bridge.
Yeah, but she didn't have a bridge rolled in and/or craned in. She built it with a wool cape and her own power. It's no different than a tightrope, except that her cloak managed to shapeshift into a bridge — and unless I'm mistaken, she didn't have a Cloak of the Bridge.
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I believe the "no bridge" clause applies to the three(formerly four) existing bridges that span the bottomless pit already; one for each god who's used the Starstone to ascend.
I imagine that were a hopeful to drag in the body of a giant or dragon or other sufficiently large monster they had slain in single's combat and used it's corpse to bridge the gap, it wouldn't qualify as a bridge any more than a tightrope would.
I meant more like them paying a group of people to build a bridge across for them or something similar. Any rich a-hole can pay someone to build a bridge. But yeah, I'd agree that using the body of a sufficiently large creature you defeated in single combat as a bridge would be within the spirit of the Starstone Test.
... where on earth does it say that, Laz?!