DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
ShinHakkaider |
My favorite Whedon show is definitely ANGEL.
Each character had an arc and I loved ALL OF THEM.
I like that the show's message was that you may not be able to beat evil EVER, but even when the odds are overwhelmingly against against you? YOU FIGHT ANYWAY. and leave an impression.
I thought that the ANGEL series finale was probably one of the best series finales that I'd ever seen. And the final fates of several of the characters who had been with Angel from the or near the beginning were pretty satisfying.
Second favorite show is probably FIREFLY.
After that DOLLHOUSE
Then...Seasons 2&3 of Buffy.
Erik Mona Chief Creative Officer, Publisher |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Buffy.
Come talk to me when these other shows equal the brilliance of "Hush," "The Body," or "Once More, With Feeling."
After that, I'd put the last couple of seasons of Angel, which were far superior to the sluggish first couple of seasons of the show.
I can't get into Firefly. Everyone tells me it's awesome, and I believe it, but I've never given it a full chance. This one is on me.
Never even bothered with Dollhouse. I thought it looked pretty dumb.
Evil_Lyn_666 |
Buffy.
Come talk to me when these other shows equal the brilliance of "Hush," "The Body," or "Once More, With Feeling."
After that, I'd put the last couple of seasons of Angel, which were far superior to the sluggish first couple of seasons of the show.
I can't get into Firefly. Everyone tells me it's awesome, and I believe it, but I've never given it a full chance. This one is on me.
Never even bothered with Dollhouse. I thought it looked pretty dumb.
"I Will Remember You", "Smile Time", "A Whole in the World" Angel easily rivals Buffy. Buffy always felt trapped in a highschool world even well after Buffy officially left it. Angel was always the more adult series. Seasons 2/3/4 were practically one giant arc. And all Buffy character who wound up on Angel were always made better because of it. Wesley, Cordelia, Faith, and even Angel himself were so much more because of Angel.
Firefly can't really be compared to Buffy/Angel. It's not fair considering it had one aborted season. Most episodes were great and had that Whendon polish, but it never really had the proper time to grow.
Dollhouse is another tough comparison. The original concept wasn't even Joss's. There was more studio interference. And it certainly didn't get decent until he had more creative freedom to go beyond "upscale hooker flavor of the week" scenarios.
ShinHakkaider |
Erik Mona wrote:Buffy.
Come talk to me when these other shows equal the brilliance of "Hush," "The Body," or "Once More, With Feeling."
After that, I'd put the last couple of seasons of Angel, which were far superior to the sluggish first couple of seasons of the show.
I can't get into Firefly. Everyone tells me it's awesome, and I believe it, but I've never given it a full chance. This one is on me.
Never even bothered with Dollhouse. I thought it looked pretty dumb.
"I Will Remember You", "Smile Time", "A Whole in the World" Angel easily rivals Buffy. Buffy always felt trapped in a highschool world even well after Buffy officially left it. Angel was always the more adult series. Seasons 2/3/4 were practically one giant arc. And all Buffy character who wound up on Angel were always made better because of it. Wesley, Cordelia, Faith, and even Angel himself were so much more because of Angel.
Firefly can't really be compared to Buffy/Angel. It's not fair considering it had one aborted season. Most episodes were great and had that Whendon polish, but it never really had the proper time to grow.
Dollhouse is another tough comparison. The original concept wasn't even Joss's. There was more studio interference. And it certainly didn't get decent until he had more creative freedom to go beyond "upscale hooker flavor of the week" scenarios.
The problem with Dollhouse is getting past the setup of the first 8 or so episodes. Once they start delving into the various possible applications for the "doll tech" that's when the show really starts taking off. Once you get to the end of S1 "Epitaph" and then S2 proper then the show really hit it's stride and becomes something very different that what it started out as.
ShinHakkaider |
Erik Mona wrote:Buffy.
Come talk to me when these other shows equal the brilliance of "Hush," "The Body," or "Once More, With Feeling."
After that, I'd put the last couple of seasons of Angel, which were far superior to the sluggish first couple of seasons of the show.
I can't get into Firefly. Everyone tells me it's awesome, and I believe it, but I've never given it a full chance. This one is on me.
Never even bothered with Dollhouse. I thought it looked pretty dumb.
"I Will Remember You", "Smile Time", "A Whole in the World" Angel easily rivals Buffy. Buffy always felt trapped in a highschool world even well after Buffy officially left it. Angel was always the more adult series. Seasons 2/3/4 were practically one giant arc. And all Buffy character who wound up on Angel were always made better because of it. Wesley, Cordelia, Faith, and even Angel himself were so much more because of Angel.
Smile Time is probably my singel favorite episode of Angel next to Never Fade Away and Youre Welcome.
The only episode of Buffy I think comes close to those that I like is The Body. Once More with Feeling is a little overhyped for what it is. It's a well done musical episode but that's really all it is A MUSICAL EPISODE in the middle of a crappy season of Buffy. THe Body on the other hand was an honest and pure emotional gut punch.
Smile Time though?
"Alright...which one of you short bus bastards turned the CEO of Wolfram and Hart into a puppet?!?"
"I'm gonna tear you a new puppet hole!!!"
[After Grufus segways the conversation away from consuming the souls of children to a new educational segment he's working on...]
Polo: Are you out of your mind?
Grufus: Well, we want it to be good, don't we?
Polo: We eat babies' lives!
Grufus: And uphold a certain quality of ed-u-tainment...
DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
Kthulhu wrote:DeathQuaker comics? Sounds a bit like an alternate version of Solomon Kane.death quaker comics? That's an awesome name for company. I'd read on a regular basis, provided it had non whedon fare.
If only I could draw faster than the speed of a snail on dope.
But I like the alternate Solomon Kane idea.
Back to topic -- I wholeheartedly agree with Evil Lyn 666 on those three episodes of Angel. And I think I would class them all above "Once More With Feeling," "Hush" and "the Body." (But then, I'd class watching a TV show about lint over "the Body." "The Body" I thought was anvilicious and gratuitously self-indulgent in morbidity--I couldn't finish watching it, I just felt like the writer was trying to beat me over the head with LOOK I HAVE A MESSAGE ABOUT DEALING WITH DEATH. This is my very personal opinion, but it smacked to me of lazy writing all around and is easily my least favorite episode of Buffy.) I did love "Hush" and "Once More with Feeling."
Erik Mona Chief Creative Officer, Publisher |
I do like Smile Time, don't get me wrong. But unlike Buffy, no episode of Angel ever kicked my ass so much that I remembered the title.
I do agree with most of the praise posted about the series, though, particularly once it found its footing in the later seasons. The early seasons were a bit of a mess, but it really was great, and some of the nights where a storyline from Buffy would cross over with Angel were absolutely great.
Bruunwald |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't hate Joss Whedon, but I do think he is way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way overrated.
Though I still am rooting for him to pull off an awesome Avengers. So he has my good will for that, at least.
The only recent Hollywood "creator" I think is more overrated is J. J. Abrams, though I have to admit I dug Lost and I think the Star Trek reboot was stellar. Thing is, Abrams hasn't got a truly original bone in his body. Everything he does is directly derivative of something else. Something you could name without even thinking hard about it. Even things that have not been gone that long in the first place, like The X-Files. And he doesn't seem to mind not bothering to change much when he "creates" the thing that has already been created. So he's sort of laughing at all of us.
So, comparatively, at least Whedon is a little more original. A little. Like, almost not at all.
I will now contemplate watching something from one of those guys, because paradoxically, though I find them both completely unoriginal and lacking genius at all, I really like what they make anyway. Go figure.
Grand Magus |
Buffy, then Angel, then Firefly, then Dollhouse.
Xander was always my favorite character because he was me in High School, followed by Willow cause Allyson Hannigan is so freaking hot.
I agree that Paul was the most annoying character on Dollhouse and Topher was my favorite. Also, I love the way that show ended.
What was Xander's "power" ? Buffy was the slayer, Willow was the witch, but I'm not clear on what Xander did.
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Caineach |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
dmchucky69 wrote:Buffy, then Angel, then Firefly, then Dollhouse.
Xander was always my favorite character because he was me in High School, followed by Willow cause Allyson Hannigan is so freaking hot.
I agree that Paul was the most annoying character on Dollhouse and Topher was my favorite. Also, I love the way that show ended.
What was Xander's "power" ? Buffy was the slayer, Willow was the witch, but I'm not clear on what Xander did.
.
Xander was the watcher. He was their connection to the rest of the world. He had no special power, but he understood them and that was what was important. He kept them grounded.
DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
Grand Magus wrote:Xander was the watcher. He was their connection to the rest of the world. He had no special power, but he understood them and that was what was important. He kept them grounded.dmchucky69 wrote:Buffy, then Angel, then Firefly, then Dollhouse.
Xander was always my favorite character because he was me in High School, followed by Willow cause Allyson Hannigan is so freaking hot.
I agree that Paul was the most annoying character on Dollhouse and Topher was my favorite. Also, I love the way that show ended.
What was Xander's "power" ? Buffy was the slayer, Willow was the witch, but I'm not clear on what Xander did.
.
They had a whole episode on that, didn't they?
Caineach |
Caineach wrote:They had a whole episode on that, didn't they?Grand Magus wrote:Xander was the watcher. He was their connection to the rest of the world. He had no special power, but he understood them and that was what was important. He kept them grounded.dmchucky69 wrote:Buffy, then Angel, then Firefly, then Dollhouse.
Xander was always my favorite character because he was me in High School, followed by Willow cause Allyson Hannigan is so freaking hot.
I agree that Paul was the most annoying character on Dollhouse and Topher was my favorite. Also, I love the way that show ended.
What was Xander's "power" ? Buffy was the slayer, Willow was the witch, but I'm not clear on what Xander did.
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I don't remember, but I do remember that every major plot point he is in in season 7 that is the theme.
What the preacher says as his eye gets poked out.
Shadowborn |
For those that haven't seen Dollhouse, I recommend checking it out. I picked up season 1 on DVD and watched it again and it's actually a really good show. I wish they'd been able to continue with it. While I don't agree with Deathquaker about what should have been done with it, the eventual collapse of civilization due to the tech would have made for a great season 3 or 4.
PsychoticWarrior |
darth_borehd wrote:It's weird how everybody loves firefly but they still won't bring the series back.They never will because for one season's investment they have gained
10 years of pay off. There is no reason to make more episodes..
The new business model is make one season of an awesome show, and then
milk profits from it's cult following for decades.
Also it lost money hand over fist. Not to mention the dismal box office of the movie Serenity.
I mean I liked Firefly - thought it was a nice twist on the sci-fi genre and harkens back to some of the old sci-fi I read from the 40s and 50s - but it was way to expensive to produce given its ratings.
Gark the Goblin |
Xander has the power of Heart! I mean come ON it's right there when they kill Adam. Xander is, until season 6, the rock that the other three tie their ships to. And when he leaves, it shows.
Anyway I think Firefly is the best live-action TV show, but Angel is my favourite because it's longer. And because it's grittier than Buffy. I mean, a vampire ghost detective? Who wouldn't want to hear more?
Kthulhu |
I mean I liked Firefly - thought it was a nice twist on the sci-fi genre and harkens back to some of the old sci-fi I read from the 40s and 50s - but it was way to expensive to produce given its ratings.
I'd wager it's ratings would have been higher if Fox hadn't played the shell game with it's time slot. And shuffled it's episode order.
Set |
I liked them all, but my kryptonite is that I can rarely stand the primary characters on his shows, and end up loving the second and third tier characters he mostly ignores.
I found Buffy herself annoying, a hero who was openly mocked by her foes for making the same mistakes over and over again, and yet, by the power of plot, was inevitably rewarded with an unearned victory anyway (particularly in later seasons, where the writers seemed to give up on making her likable or heroic). Willow, Xander, Cordelia, Giles and Anya were awesome characters, 'though, and I watched the show for them (which meant that seasons six and seven, which were, charitably speaking, unkind to them, were no fun for me).
With Angel, I found Wesley more interesting, and, much later, Illyria (as well as bit characters that were rarely if ever seen, like Gwen Raiden or Bethany Chalk). Cordelia didn't seem to survive the transition from Buffy to Angel, as a character. Whatever spark she had in high school seemed gone. Fred was too cutesy. I welcomed her transition to Illyria (particularly since I got to see the same actress in a whole new light).
In Firefly, I would have watched the show forever if Mal fell into an engine and was never spoken of again, leaving Zoe to run the ship. Zoe seemed both more interesting and more competent (and the fireworks between her and Jayne would have been a lot more interesting, assuming she didn't fill him full of holes the first time he looked at her sideways...). The Mal / Inara passive-aggressive 'romance' that mostly consisted of the two of them verbally insulting each other made me want both characters gone (although, given a choice, I'd choose to keep Inara over Mal!). I was eagerly awaiting the revelations about Shepard Book's mysterious past, possibly as an Operative, but, c'est la vie, and, as has been pointed out, by watching Serenity, I kind of got to see a version of his past, played out by the Operative in that movie...
For Dollhouse, it was Sierra, Victor, Adele, November and Whiskey, although Topher, who initially irritated the hell out of me, grew on me as well. Echo never really struck me, which was disappointing, since I'm a fan of Eliza Dushku. Boyd got kind of fun halfway through the series when he settled in, and developed a bit of snark, although I didn't like him so much at the end, when all the cards were face up.
Picking a favorite is hard. Buffy and Firefly are neck and neck. Buffy had a lot longer of a run (which, unfortunately, also means that it has a lot more uber-sucky episodes and character developments, which drag down my ratings). Firefly both suffers and benefits from it's relatively short run, since it didn't have time for Joss' ADD to kick in and him to lose interest and hand it off to people who would drive it into the ground and gut *all* of the characters. :)
DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
Set, I'm generally with you on liking the supporting characters more than the main characters.
I also am in a general situation that if I really like the character, they will be killed off. Basically if you can name the characters who died in any Joss Whedon series, they were probably my favorites from that series (Firefly/Serenity was the exception, the two-three characters I liked there all lived).
And I adored Fred, but then being a quirky bespectacled nerd girl (though never as smart as she was) she was the character I related to most. Granted I also loved Illyria for different reasons, but still--especially joined with the character deaths on Buffy, who were largely also characters I related to in some way--left Angel feeling rather irrationally like Joss Whedon was out for me personally.