Metamagic: how do feat and rod work together?


Rules Questions


How does a rod work when it comes to spells vs. spell slots? Let's say I have a Persistent lightning bolt memorized (+2 levels, in a 5th level slot). Can I use my lesser rod of empower on the 3rd level lightning bolt, or will it fail if I try to use it on the spell-in-a-level-5-slot?


You can use a single metamagic rod with any spell you've applied your own metamagic feats to. The metamagic rod does not change the spell slot value, but the metamagic effect applies.

Edit:

I'm not sure if you can use a lesser rod on a spell your metamagic feat has turned into a fifth level spell. I don't think the rules are clear. I would probably rule that you can't, but I bet others would rule otherwise.


Oops, never mind. My mistake. Metamagic feats other than "heighten" don't actually change the spell level, so, yes, you can use a lesser metamagic rod on a 3rd level spell that you have used a metamagic feat to need a fifth level slot to cast.

But you couldn't if you used the "heighten" metamagic feat to boost it to a higher level.


tonyz wrote:
How does a rod work when it comes to spells vs. spell slots? Let's say I have a Persistent lightning bolt memorized (+2 levels, in a 5th level slot). Can I use my lesser rod of empower on the 3rd level lightning bolt, or will it fail if I try to use it on the spell-in-a-level-5-slot?

I would think that yes you can use a lesser meta magic rod in this situation. While the spell is using a 5th lv slot, it is still considered a 3rd lv spell. Meta magic doesn't change the lv of a spell (except for heighten spell), just the lv of the slot used. The only exception I could see is if you use the heighten spell meta magic to increase a spells lv (lightning bolt for example), then it would no longer be considered a 3rd lv spell, so you would need a meta magic rod that would affect 4th lv (or higher) spells.


I was wondering the same thing on one hand the rules specifically that that the spell operates in all ways at its original level. However when crafting scrolls, potions and wands with metamagic effects you use the altered "spell level". even though it's level isn't technically changed. I still lean towards it not affecting the spell level and still being able to use the lesser rod

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