A Guide to Touch Spells, Spellstrike, and Spell Combat [Ver 0.4 Alpha]


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what is certain that is if next turn you make an attack you actualy can deliver frostbite with your sword using spell strike but there is alot of discusion even among developers there is no clear ruling

if you cast a new spel like arcane mark to spell combat you would keep the charge and some say you even keep the charge from frostbite because it is no longer a spell but a supernatural abilety as the spell is already cast.

there is a post made about this by me already. my sugestion is talk it over with your GM and let him rule it one way or the other.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pj33?Magus-spelstrike-and-holding-the-charge


Thanks, Grick!


Not sure if you want to get into this or not Grick, but it might be nice to add a section on the Myrmidarch archetype Range Spellstrike ability for completeness.


As good as shocking grasp is, what about using enlarge person/Iron Blade spell, are far better choice or both a weapon. using both increases the weapon's dice size 1d10->2d8->3d8 for weapon damage per-turn, and use and then use use lvl-0 spell such as light or arcane mark as mentioned above ... have a one handed weapon say dwarven, waraxe(1d10) at 12 str. cast do the following this is all at lvl 2
turn 1: Enlarge Person(+2 to hit, -2 AC, 1d8+1->2d6+2) brb(1)+2str -2 spell combat: 1/1 to hit=2d8+2/2d8+2
Turn 2: Iron blade on dwarven, waraxe Or sheathed on your side large sword, two bladed make the 1/1 3d8+2/3d8+2 OR 1/1 2d8+2/2d8+2(if you care about useing chill grasp you may and i recommend it for higher caster levels)
turn 3: feel free to use shocking grasp 4/1 3d8+2(+2d6)/3d8+2 OR if you arn't going to use spells here the do the following before your last hit or after casting chill touch: 1/1 4d6+2(1d6[+3])/4d6+2(1d6[+1])
Turn 4 for the next 9 rounds you have light cantrip-> 1/1 3d8+2/3d8+2 OR 1/1 4d6+2/4d6+1

the above is correct yes? except maybe the weapon chane every round.
is it possible to sheathe and unsheathe as part of a 5ft step useing the quick draw feat to swap between the dwarven waraxe, and maybe a large great sword for a 5d6+3 as one of the two atks each round? if not then you could use TWF with a large MW/MW "Sword, two-bladed as a 0/0 (or would it be -2/-2?) 4d6+2/4d6+1
and does spells with a range of personal count as touch for not do to the specific word use and expectations of channeling the spell through the weapon, and that isn't possible to give any personal effect to another creature, make personal spells also not activates the spell strike effect?
seeing how combats don't usually last 12 rounds that's about all you need may be for turn to use shield and just a 1d10+1 is best to negate the -2 Ac from enlarge person.


*but there is nothing to say that any fighter can't just use a scroll or wand of either for a level dip into any arcane or divine class rangers get lead blades, all non ranger classes can get enlarge person as a lvl-1 through domain(s) or use the skill Use Magic Device to emulate an ability

and does spells with a range of personal count as touch for not do to the specific word use and expectations of channeling the spell through the weapon, and that isn't possible to give any personal effect to another creature, make personal spells also not activates the spell strike effect?

P.S. sorry for the duplicate post, please delete one if not both if the knowledge disrupts the whole system of PF play please delete one if possible should if be giving out to yes ranged explanation would be well received.


You can't use spell combat to cast enlarge person.

PRD wrote:
As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty).

(Emphasis mine)


Can I add this scenario to the discussion?

Party includes a Magus and a Samurai both level 9. The magus is on the bottom of the initiative and they position themselves for flanking.

Top of the round, Samurai full attacks for 100+ damage
then gets attacked in return by monster
then magus full attacks with spell combat, he goes regular attacks first (with the -2 penalty) and still manages to kill the monster

Does the magus still have to cast the spell and waste it? Or can he choose to not cast it at this point?

Scarab Sages

He can chose not to cast.


he could just aswell cast arcane mark on the dead body.... what doese it mather?


Great guide, Grick. Very helpful and good at explaining why, as well as what happens.
Seems odd to me that people aren't mentioning how crazy the ability is to crit a shocking grasp on a threat range of 15-20 (30% threat), using a keen scimitar. This means a fifth level character can conceivably do 12d6+whatever damage to boss-like characters on about 1/4th of his attacks. I made a magus as a villain, and might not throw him at the PCs because he can just accidentally kill people with a little bad luck.
With intensify spell, this scales up pretty crazily.
I don't think the class is overpowered (Uses/day, BAB, etc..). I'm just sayin, be careful.

Scarab Sages

dot


Has anyone thought of taking 2 levels of Soul Eater for the Level Drain ability, and a Conductive weapon? Combine this with Soul Pool's "recover spell slot" ability, and you get a level 1 spell back for each negative level you drain (2 on a crit), so unlimited shocking grasp at level 7.


Nice write-up.

I am going to playing my first Magus this Sunday.

This helped!


yeah is awsime got a lvl10 bladbount human magus now its just amazing!


Darkflame wrote:

what is certain that is if next turn you make an attack you actualy can deliver frostbite with your sword using spell strike but there is alot of discusion even among developers there is no clear ruling

if you cast a new spel like arcane mark to spell combat you would keep the charge and some say you even keep the charge from frostbite because it is no longer a spell but a supernatural abilety as the spell is already cast.

there is a post made about this by me already. my sugestion is talk it over with your GM and let him rule it one way or the other.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pj33?Magus-spelstrike-and-holding-the-charge

If you have a held charge from the frostbite, it is gone once you cast another spell.


Hello. I am making a Magus for one of my game and I found out that Spell Combat must absolutly be used with a free hand. However, since I want to make the badass orc weilding greataxe, I won't be able to use it.

Unfortunatly, there is no feat to help me with that. So I was wondering if you guys would help me create a balanced feat for that.

Something along the lines of:

Improved Spell Combat
Your intense training with Combat Spell gave you the ability to cast without needing a free hand.
Prerequisite: Magus Class.
Benefit: This feat gives you the opportunity to use Spell Combat without needing a free hand as long as both hands are used to weild the same weapon and if the spell is a touch or a personal spell.

So basically what it does is it gives you access to better weapons in exchange of only being able to use touch or personal spell using Spell Combat in that situation.

Do you think this would be too strong? Too weak? I'm waiting for your opinion.


You know that shifting the grip on a two-handed weapon is a free action?

FAQ: Two-Handed Weapons: What kind of action is it to remove your hand from a two-handed weapon or re-grab it with both hands?

FAQ wrote:

Both are free actions. For example, a wizard wielding a quarterstaff can let go of the weapon with one hand as a free action, cast a spell as a standard action, and grasp the weapon again with that hand as a free action; this means the wizard is still able to make attacks of opportunity with the weapon (which requires using two hands).

As with any free action, the GM may decide a reasonable limit to how many times per round you can release and re-grasp the weapon (one release and re-grasp per round is fair).


"To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand."

Beside, my DM refused the Free-Standard-FRee or regripping since its just a way to go around the rule, plus, it does ask for a one-handed weapon.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The second level of Titan Mauler gives Jotungrip. That's the approach I'd take. See if your GM will allow a Jotungrip feat, or just take the 2-level dip. It's not like Barbarian is that out of character for an orc.

Other than that, I can see allowing a house rule that you can Spell Combat spells without somatic components with a two-hander. You could then Still Spell (Metamagic) and Still Magic (Magus Arcana) to cast.


Seawee wrote:
Hello. I am making a Magus for one of my game and I found out that Spell Combat must absolutly be used with a free hand. However, since I want to make the badass orc weilding greataxe, I won't be able to use it.

Remember that you can still Spellstrike with a two handed weapon, so you can cast a touch spell and deliver it in the same round with your greataxe, you just cannot get extra attacks through Spell Combat. I know a Kensai that uses a Katana that way a lot: It's really powerful.

I'd suggest that rather than going the cookie cutter magus who basically two weapon fights with Arcane Strike when they aren't dropping Shocking Grasps, you focus on hitting hard with your axe and occasionally add a spell to buff your damage. Instead of using Shocking Grasp as your primary damage spell, try Frostbite. Magical Lineage allows you to cast Rimed Frostbites out of level 1 slots, entangling your enemies every time you hit them. The other thing is, you cast Frostbite once and can hit with it multiple times, it basically just adds 1d6+<level> damage to your regular attacks. At this point you're probably hitting just as hard as a Barbarian. Then save the Shocking Grasps for times when you _really_ need that big burst of damage. The main thing you miss out on from the lack of spell combat is being able to attack in the same round you cast a buff spell.

If you want to make a non-traditional Magus, you're not going to be able to play him as a traditional Magus. That doesn't mean he won't be brutally effective.


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Seawee wrote:

Hello. I am making a Magus for one of my game and I found out that Spell Combat must absolutly be used with a free hand. However, since I want to make the badass orc weilding greataxe, I won't be able to use it.

Unfortunatly, there is no feat to help me with that. So I was wondering if you guys would help me create a balanced feat for that.

Something along the lines of:

Improved Spell Combat
Your intense training with Combat Spell gave you the ability to cast without needing a free hand.
Prerequisite: Magus Class.
Benefit: This feat gives you the opportunity to use Spell Combat without needing a free hand as long as both hands are used to weild the same weapon and if the spell is a touch or a personal spell.

So basically what it does is it gives you access to better weapons in exchange of only being able to use touch or personal spell using Spell Combat in that situation.

Do you think this would be too strong? Too weak? I'm waiting for your opinion.

Why not just use a battleaxe instead of a greataxe? It's more or less the same weapon just a bit smaller and it works just fine with Spell Combat without needing to make up any new rules.


Seawee wrote:

... So I was wondering if you guys would help me create a balanced feat...

Have you tried posting your issue in the suggestion/homebrew forum? It's a small bit of a threadjack here where being in the wrong forum will mean a lot fewer of the people who like to help with that sort of thing will see it buried in an instructional thread explaining strict RAW.

Also, what Artoo said [or, if you're not PFS, reskin of an acceptable weapon] and keep in mind the x3 crit of your axe will only x2 your spells.

Shadow Lodge

thank you so much grick, this has been beyond helpful, before this i didnt see the usefulness of spellstrike lol but now i know

and knowing is half the battle ;D

(my magus blew himself up with a bag of alchemist fires xD)


Necro!

If one would attack with a sword charged with shocking grasp (spellstrike) what will happen?

A: You roll for attack with your sword using the usual +'s and -'s but you also add +3 because your sword is charged with shocking grasp at that time and your enemy has metal. After this hits on normal AC you deal damage of your sword AND shocking grasp without having to roll for touch ac

B: You roll for attack with your sword using the usual +'s and -'s but you do not add the +3 of shocking grasp and when it hits normal ac you deal damage of your sword but you still have to roll touch ac for the shocking grasp

C: You roll for attack with your sword using the usual +'s and -'s but you do add the +3 of shocking grasp and when it hits normal ac you deal damage of your sword but you still have to roll touch ac for the shocking grasp


It's A. You do get the +3 bonus against metal-armor-wearing enemies while trying to deliver Shocking Grasp using Spellstrike. The attacks with your weapon are made against normal AC rather than as touch attacks. When you do hit your enemy with your weapon, the spell automatically discharges without any additional attack rolls needed (although the target still gets saves and SR checks if applicable to the spell).


Gisher wrote:
It's A. You do get the +3 bonus against metal-armor-wearing enemies while trying to deliver Shocking Grasp using Spellstrike. The attacks with your weapon are made against normal AC rather than as touch attacks. When you do hit your enemy with your weapon, the spell automatically discharges without any additional attack rolls needed (although the target still gets saves and SR checks if applicable to the spell).

Thanks for the answer! I find it weird it works like that as the spell strike ability mentions the effects are only dealt when the attack hits. This would sound to me as if the +3 does not apply because it did not yet hit.

Though if you think outside the rules and with common knowledge, I'd say the sword is indeed electrified.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

And even better, if your attack roll (against regular AC) misses, then your shocking grasp stays charged and will apply to your next attack. Even if that attack is the next turn.


Dear Grick;

Though this post is 4 years old, it still serves as a excellent connect the dots post about Spellstrike. I've been GMing/playing PF for 3 years now and never seen a Magus in action. This week one of my players decided to replace his fallen 8th level character with a Magus and to be perfectly candid about it, I was totally way off in my understanding of this and thoroughly borked up our first session with this new Magus (fortunately, none of us had any grasp of the class' mechanic so it was a shared shame). next session is tomorrow and after reading your essay, I GOT IT (yes, caps warranted) and will educate my group accordingly. Heartfelt thanks good sir.


If your attack hits with spellstrike, but your spell gets nullified from a failed defensive casting check, or spell resistance, does your attack still go through?

Can you use hold the charge to use the spell again next round?


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OzzyKP wrote:

If your attack hits with spellstrike, but your spell gets nullified from a failed defensive casting check, or spell resistance, does your attack still go through?

Can you use hold the charge to use the spell again next round?

The defensive casting roll is made before the attack itself. If that roll fails, the spell is lost, no held charge is created, and the caster does not receive a free attack to deliver the touch spell.

If the spell is delivered via a successful attack but fails due to spell resistance, then the weapon damage still gets through. The charge for the spell is already used up, so the caster no longer has a charge to hold.

If the attack missed, then the charge is still on the weapon and will be delivered with the next attack with the weapon. However, the free attack from casting a touch spell was used up, so that next attack has to be with some kind of attack action, usually a standard action, full-round action, or attack of opportunity.


with Greater Bladed Dash I could deliver up to 12 attacks in 1 go?
spell strike all of them?


You can make as many attacks as there are creatures in the area of effect. I can not see a way to use it with Spell strike, because casting Bladed Dash discharges any held spell.

Grand Lodge

Perhaps from a spellstoring weapon?


You could definitely discharge a spell in a spell storing weapon, but you can do that regardless of Spell Strike.


Of course, there is a third party feat that allows you to hold a charge when casting a spell. But if your DM allows that feat, that is their headache.

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