One of the most enjoyable aspects of the competition so far has been the chat and camaraderie in the Guildhall thread. Once voting opened for round 2 we all had to keep our mouths shut though, and a lot of the atmosphere was lost. I don't know what other people think but could we perhaps change the way future rounds or years are handled?
1. Create a private Guildhall thread so we can chat amongst ourselves without influencing the voting. I thought that thread was private initially, but a Google search indicated otherwise.
2. If that means we can't vote ourselves whilst competing then that's fine with me. I think it's a reasonable trade for the opportunity to discuss our submissions, complain about the judges :-) and talk about the next round.
3. Make it clear from the outset that all discussion in the Superstar forums is banned for competitors during the voting periods. The rules are a little unclear on that at the moment, although the advice given later wasn't.
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I think a private thread for the competitors would be really nice. As a spectator, I support this idea!
Regarding the "all discussion is banned," let's be a bit clearer. Not all discussion is banned; far from it. But there's two possible transgressions here. One is that incautious posting might be interpreted as discussing one's own entry, which is a disqualification. The second is that one can simply be gauche and annoying - which isn't a DQ, it's just really annoying coming from a contestant...
The first is really, really, really important, and I think it's adaquately covered in the rules. I also think this last round has given us a very clear idea of where that line is drawn; all that's left to say is to stay the hell away from the line, rather than toe really close without crossing it. That's not a rule. It's just common sense.
The second is also common sense, and it's mostly a matter of understanding public perception. Hard to pin down in writing, and an important skill to develop. I honestly don't think this would have aroused much comment if it hadn't been for the near-DQs (although I'm sure some people did find it annoying).
The bottom line is this: you don't need to be silent. You do need to consider how you, as a contestant under constant public scrutiny, might be coming across. And also you need to avoid a DQ. No more, no less. :)
Oh, but wait, there's a problem with a private forum :-/
I assume it wouldn't be completely private; judges should have access, to prevent collusion. More during the writing period than the voting period, BTW. But then that'd compromise the judges. Heck, even during the voting period it'd be really tough, because the judges do keep on posting and commenting - so something in the private forum could sway a judge (or another competitor) who then can go back and defend your entry.
Shucks. Guess you'll have to make due with friends and pit crews...
I don't mind judges having access to the thread as they won't be voting in the same way. They can always choose not to read it if they're worried about being influenced.
Nnnnooo. You've gotta think this out more.
Say you're working towards Round 3. And you go into the private forum and you're all "OMG! So excited! I can't post this publicly, but I am totally working on an awesome psychic pudding!"
That's a problem, because if somebody else is working on a psychic cheesecake, you're gonna wise up and change your work. Or somebody else'll go "wow, taking a monster and making it psychic is an awesome idea, I'll do that too!". Or some other thing that's clearly beyond the pale of what communication can be allowed between the contestants.
So if that's a potential problem, you need a judge there. This is not going to be negotiable.
But say the judge hates psychic deserts. Well, by the time you turn your entry in, your psychic pudding is now an empathy-controlling stalk of broccolli, because you took the same ideas you started with and made them cooler and less cliche (duh, psychic desserts have been so overdone). But he knows where your entry's coming from, and he doesn't even notice all the changes and improvements, so he hates your monster. Oh, crud! If only we'd never had a private forum!
So... it's tough. But it goes back to the core issue: as a designer, you do not have a safe public haven to discuss your work. Vexing, but true. If you get into the industry, you can maybe share with collegues... that work at the same company and know about your project etc. But you're probably not going to have a forum for that; it's just your own personal connections. And for the contest, well, you can run your work past friends; you can form a private Facebook group for a few people you think'll be interested; stuff like that. You don't have to go completely without. But upon consideration, I really don't think Paizo or the site can possibly serve as an outlet for this. :-/
One of the most enjoyable aspects of the competition so far has been the chat and camaraderie in the Guildhall thread. Once voting opened for round 2 we all had to keep our mouths shut though, and a lot of the atmosphere was lost. I don't know what other people think but could we perhaps change the way future rounds or years are handled?
I don't think any of that is necessary. The competiton has functioned this way for 5 years now. And there's plenty of time for camaraderie during the non-voting periods of the contest. That's when you're free to engage one another and the voting public as much as you'd like (aside from discussing your ideas for future rounds, of course). Meanwhile, the silent periods during voting are there for a reason. It, too, is a training tool for what it's like to be under an NDA. It's another test for determining how well you can conduct yourselves, both when a freelancer is expected to remain silent and in how a freelancer is expected to conduct themselves when they know they're representing their publisher when interacting with that publisher's customer base.
Basically, if you run your mouth a lot and can't keep quiet...and feel you always need to be talking to someone about your work...you might not be an ideal freelancer candidate. Likewise, if you're uncouth in how you interact with the voters on the messageboards here, that too might be a signal that you'd be a poor freelancer candidate in representing Paizo's interests. There's a whole lot of "game within the game" to this contest. It's not just a competition where you produce work round-by-round and everyone votes through their favorite. It's a job interview. The contest is purposefully designed to test you on all the various aspects you'll need for the job. Some of you are getting some much-needed training right now by going through experiences like the one you describe...i.e., where you have to tone it back down, stay silent for a bit, and carefully consider your words and behavior when interacting with the voters. Some of you may already have those skills and put them to good use. These situations in the contest are meant to help highlight who's better prepared in this area and who's not...
1. Create a private Guildhall thread so we can chat amongst ourselves without influencing the voting. I thought that thread was private initially, but a Google search indicated otherwise.
The "guildhall" is nothing more than a regular messageboard thread, created by a fellow competitor (Eric Morton), who created the very first one back in 2009(?), I think. Even when he wasn't in the competition during 2010 and 2011, he still created such a thread for those who did make the Top 32 during those years. It's somewhat fun (and supportive) to have such a thread for those you who are running the gauntlet together. But it's not meant to be anything other than that. And I'd really disagree that a private forum is necessary or even worthwhile. I think it's far better to see how the competitors conduct themselves when everyone's eyes are on them. Because, when you do this for real, it's exactly like that. There won't be anywhere you post on these messageboards where people won't see that RPG Superstar tag next to your name.
2. If that means we can't vote ourselves whilst competing then that's fine with me. I think it's a reasonable trade for the opportunity to discuss our submissions, complain about the judges :-) and talk about the next round.
You really shouldn't be doing any of that in such detail that you'd be uncomfortable talking about the same things openly. What would you honestly discuss about your submissions? Justify them in the face of criticism from the judges or the voters? I can tell you from experience it wouldn't be a worthwhile exercise. People are entitled to their opinions. If you're freelancing for real, it's almost never a worthwhile enterprise to go into a messageboard forum and "defend" your work against reviewers you disagree with. This is why we stress so much that your work needs to "stand on its own." You need to write material well enough that it holds up to scrutiny more often than not, because you can't be cloned and air-dropped into every local game store to explain your work to someone who just doesn't "get" it. And, if you feel the need to vent or commiserate with someone, that's the kind of activity you do on your own time...and hopefully not in a place where your publisher's customers can observe you...and even your fellow freelancers, to some degree.
3. Make it clear from the outset that all discussion in the Superstar forums is banned for competitors during the voting periods. The rules are a little unclear on that at the moment, although the advice given later wasn't.
If anything, I think Paizo would go this direction rather than providing more places for you communicate during the voting rounds. There's been discussion before about shutting down all communication for the competitors while the voting is going on. But, I believe the general thinking on not doing that is that it still serves a purpose. By leaving the temptation there, we get to identify who's weak enough to succumb to it. As such, it's another challenge within the contest. And, the voters are pretty savvy, too. They can tell when you're not exactly saying anything DQ-worthy. But they can also tell when you're dancing close to the line...usually in an effort to win their vote. Some people respond to that negatively. And some don't...and you might actually sway them into supporting you. Regardless, everything you say and do during that timeframe is under a microscope. Get used to it. There'll be elements of that throughout your future freelancing career. It's good that you get a taste of what that's like now rather than later when you're less prepared to deal with it.
But that's just my two cents,
--Neil
Hey Andrew, I have to agree with Standback on this one. I think it's just another part of the contest: "Can this person interact with the community in a positive way without spilling the beans?"
I agree that the atmosphere cooled rapidly when a few of the contestants got the fear of the gods put in them, but I'm sure things will be fine from here on out. It's not a lack of clarity in the rules or a lack of a private outlet, it's just that a few of us got a little overexcited and forgot themselves. Thankfully for some of us, our hosts have been very forgiving.
In the end, it's not that hard. Be active! Talk to people on the boards! That's great. Just stay away from your and everyone else's entries, and avoid talking about them in other threads. Every other topic of conversation is fair game, so the atmosphere doesn't have to suffer. Loosen up and have fun, everybody. That's what Pathfinder is for! :)
EDIT: Argh, I got Neiled!
My thanks to Eric for creating the Guildhall thread then, that's a nice touch. :-)
I understand the need to test us on NDAs as I have to be equally careful about my day job; I just miss the chatter. It was a surprising bonus having got through to the top 32. Thanks for the detailed response.
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Guys, it's a really simple rule: you can talk all you want, just don't talk about your submission during the voting period. Toeing that line risks getting a DQ.
You can still talk about Dr. Who. Or Firefly. Or your campaign. Or your birthday. Or the latest cool movie trailer. Or whatever. Just don't talk about your submission.
You're not six years old. You can keep your mouth shut about one topic for a week. You don't feel the need to blab about what presents you're buying for a person's birthday, or spoilers for every movie you've seen, or the color of your latest bowel movement, or details about your sex life, right? You understand the concept of discretion, and that certain things shouldn't be talked about under certain circumstances, right? So be discrete and don't talk about your submission during the voting period. Yes, in a way, this is a test to see if you can honor an NDA. But it's also something you do every day: not talking about stuff you know you're not supposed to talk about.
Competitors this year were admonished to "shut up" because this year we had far too many people getting post-happy in ways that flaunt Rule #5. If you're having a problem seeing where the line is, just stay away from the line entirely. But that line is just about one thing (your submission), and there's plenty of other stuff to talk about in this community, if you can just not talk about that one thing for a week.