Master Arminas's Witchblade: A Pathfinder Hexblade Conversion (Complete)

[Tels]

Hmmm, feats for a Witchblade?

This class is just screaming to take a certain popular Magus build.

1st Weapon Finesse
3rd Dervish Dance
5th Arcane Strike (Bonus)Crane Style
7th Crane Wing
9th Crane Riposte
10th Abilty Focus (Cursed Blight)

Dervish Dance/Crane Style go hand-in-hand together, especially since it lets you keep a hand free for casting. Arcane Strike gives you bonus damage, and Dervish Dance lets you use Dexterity on attack rolls and damage rolls. I think everything aver 10th will, basically, just be gravy on top.

By the way, Master Arminas, combined with your Warlock, I'm thinking I need a to make a Brother/Sister duo as re-occurring characters instead.

>:)

[Tels]

Master Arminas, were you intending to double up on the penalties from Cursed Blight on CMB and CMD? I was just updating my Monk's Character sheet from 7th - 9th and was double checking everything. I was going through CMB and CMD and thought to myself, "Master Arminas' Hexblade would make a good maneuver guy!"

Combat Maneuvers

Combat: Performing Combat Maneuvers wrote:

When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.

Combat Maneuver Defense: Miscellaneous Modifiers wrote:

A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD.

Cursed Blight adds a -2 penalty to many things, attack rolls, AC, CMB and CMD among them. This would mean that, because penalties to AC and attack rolls also apply to CMB/CMD, Cursed Blight doubles up on CMB/CMD for a net penalty of -4.

Is this how you intended it to work?

[master arminas]

Tels wrote:

Master Arminas, were you intending to double up on the penalties from Cursed Blight on CMB and CMD? I was just updating my Monk's Character sheet from 7th - 9th and was double checking everything. I was going through CMB and CMD and thought to myself, "Master Arminas' Hexblade would make a good maneuver guy!"

Combat Maneuvers

Combat: Performing Combat Maneuvers wrote:

When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.

Combat Maneuver Defense: Miscellaneous Modifiers wrote:

A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD.

Cursed Blight adds a -2 penalty to many things, attack rolls, AC, CMB and CMD among them. This would mean that, because penalties to AC and attack rolls also apply to CMB/CMD, Cursed Blight doubles up on CMB/CMD for a net penalty of -4.

Is this how you intended it to work?

No. Oops. It does not double; I meant to state that the penalty to attack and AC CAUSED a penalty to CMB and CMD, to remind those not so familiar with the rules. I will fix.

MA

[C.Chaser]

I don't know if anyone reads this message board anymore. But I wanted to say that I really like Master Arminas Witchblade II Hexblade conversion. I was fond of the Hexblade in 3.5 although I found the mechanics problematic, and I was always hoping to see it fixed in Pathfinder. I started playing a Witchblade in a campaign about a month ago, and found that the Witchblade II was a bit overpowered, and there were still some bugs to be worked out. My group made a few adjustments to Master Arminas version (some mechanical, some for flavor) and it's worked out extremely well in our games. And I wanted to share them, and see if anyone had any thoughts. The changes are as follows:

1. The Witchblade is proficient with and can cast spells using Bucklers.

2. Cursed Blight, Greater Blight, and Dire Blight, penaltys also apply to the targets spell resistance if any.

3. The Cursed Blight, Greater Blight, and Dire Blightthe ability range is 25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels.

4. The bonus gained from Arcane Grace is 1/2 Witchblades charisma modifier.

5. The Witchblade has standard Arcane Bond options (item or familiar), in place of the modified Witchblade's Familiar.

6. Cursed Blade can be used with ranged weapons.

7.Counter Blight can only be used once per round.

8. The Witchblades selects spells from the Witch spells list, with a couple possible exceptions.

My reasoning:
1. With a Buckler the Witchblade has one freehand for somatic spell gestures, it doesn't break the game, and gives players more options for their characters combat style. (Witchblades already have martial weapons proficiency, why not explore that aspect a little more fully with a Rapier and Buckler instead of a great sword?)

2. Admittedly this modification could prove a bit too powerful, but SR tends to be fairly high in Pathfinder. the ability to lessen it with a Blight adds an interesting strategic aspect to the class. With the Witchblades decreased caster level it can be hard for them to overcome a powerful creatures SR, and they get their spells later in the game when SR is getting significant. However there is a degree of balance, since Blight penalties don't stack, players can't eliminate the SR factor entirely.

3. The ability range is based on a close range spell, its under the original Hexblades 60 ft range, the distance is low in the early game and proportionally increases as characters progress.

4. Even with a Blight Pool cost Arcane Grace is still beyond broken! A player can spend 1 Blight Pool point to get an enormous bonus to saves which will last the entire encounter, and can still attack on the same round. I know that it was modeled after the Arcane Resistance from the original hexblade, but that was the one overpowered aspect of what was otherwise an underpowered class.

For instance, if a Level 10 Witchblade with a natural charisma: 20, obtains a Headband of Alluring Charisma (cha +6), and ring of evasion the situation is immediately out of control. Assume the Witchblade has a good dexterity, moderate wisdom and constitution, add in a couple other miscellaneous bonuses the Witchblade probably has at that point, and you easily end up with a +16 or more to every save. Combined with evasion and Stalwart, the level 10 Witchblade, is more or less immune to any spell that allows a saving throw. I made this character and it quickly proved to be way too much.

6. Why Not curse a ranged weapon as well?

7. Counter Blight as a free action is just too powerful in an encounter even if there is a limited number of times you can do it per day.

8. This might seem blasphemous to some, but copying and pasting the Witch spell list for the Witchblade is an excellent way to bring the Hexblade into Pathfinder. The Witch presents a different more Eldritch kind of arcane magic, and adds a lot of flavor to the idea of magic within the game. Furthermore Witches use hex abilities, and their magic has a similar feel to the Witchblade/Hexblade. In a lot of ways the Witchblade is to the Witch, what the Magus is to the Wizard. And that duality should be reflected in their spells. Also the Witch already has a strategically and thematically limited spell repertoire, and since the Witchblade only learns a limited number of spells this broader selection doesn't get out of hand.

Overall it’s a great conversion. Definitely one of the best I've seen.

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

master arminas wrote:

I want to thank everyone who helped me on the original thread where we discussed this conversion in full: Silent Saturn, LazarX, Kyrt-ryder, Cheapy, SmiloDan, Drogan Tome, and Robert Gomes. Without their advice and assistance, I doubt that this class would as effective or as fun as it has become. The original thread can be found here, if you are interested.

Once again, I would like to express my thanks to Paizo for developing, making available, and continuing to support the Pathfinder game system and community. You guys have exceeded all of my expectations, and I hope to remain a fervent supporter of your work for years to come.

Master Arminas

The Witchblade, A Revised and Updated Hexblade for the Pathfinder RPG

Master Arminas,

I want to thank you and all who helped you with this class. I'm planning on adding it to our list of available classes.

Having been away from the Pathfinder RPG, for a while, it's nice to return and see such wonderful contributions to the system.

Thank you!

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

C.Chaser wrote:

I don't know if anyone reads this message board anymore.

Thank you for your suggestions, C.Chaser.

I'm going to look at these and try and decide how to proceed.

[Klay Fireheart]

I know a easy way to turn a document into a pdf. I use https://www.freepdfconvert.com/ as its free and you can download your pdf. I use it to update my Pathfinder home rules stuff and my home game legal stuff. Just saying as this would be great in a pdf instead of just in a forum.

[Tanthalasa]

Hi... Well first of all, looks like a really great class. I haven't playtested it yet, but I love what I read.

I do have a few questions though, especially about the familiar. If I remember right from druid, the snake (constrictor) and wolf starts out as medium, and then grow to large at higher level. Would it then be the same with witchblade familiar who take improved familiar or does you decrease them in size to small from the beginning.

Another thing, which might just be me. I know that for instance a gunslingers grit pool is way lower, at least as the witchblade gain class level, but I kinda like the flavor, that the character could regain point to his pool, maybe way more limited, like killing his cursed target or so.

Not sure if that with push him over the top, but just the idea, of him cursing his opponent, making a invisible bond to his soul, then fighting him, killing him, draining some of his essence as he dies.

After all, that is just an idea, but maybe more for a powergame version of pathfinder, it will depend on the stats as well, because a high charisma will boost the pool a lot.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

@master arminas: I've had my eye on this for a long time. Very well-done...but one suggestion:

Now that it's out there, why not recalibrate the spellcasting progression to that of the Medium (i.e. Cantrips starting at 1st level)?

A very large expansion on its spell list is no doubt in order, too!

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

A very large expansion on its spell list is no doubt in order, too!

Since I am about to utilize this class in a homebrew adventure on here, I have taken the liberty of doing so! Everything here is taken from the Witch and Magus lists, with a conservative sprinkling of Oracle spells, and the scanty original list also worked in:

Cantrips: arcane mark, bleed, dancing lights, daze, detect magic, detect poison, flare, ghost sound, grasp, light, mage hand, mending, open/close, prestidigitation, putrefy food and drink, read magic, sotto voce, spark, touch of fatigue

1st: abeyance, advanced scurvy, alarm, alluring spores, ant haul, aphasia, arcane disruption, assumed likeness, authenticating gaze, bane, barbed chains, bed of iron, beguiling gift, blade lash, bleeding strike, blend, bloodbath, bloody tears and jagged smile, blurred movement, bone fists, bungle, burning gaze, cause fear, charm person, cheetah's sprint, chill touch, cloak of secrets, command, compel hostility, comprehend languages, contact entity I, corpse lanterns, curse item, curse of keeping, lesser curse terrain, damp powder, dancing darkness, darting duplicate, death candle, death knell, deathwatch, decompose corpse, Deivon's parry, delusional pride, depilate, desperate weapon, greater detect magic, diminish resistance, diminish detection, discern next of kin, disfiguring touch, disguise self, disguise weapon, doom, echo, Egorian diplomacy, emblazon crest, embrace destiny, endothermic touch, endure elements, enemy's heart, entropic shield, erase, expeditious retreat, fabricate disguise, fair is foul, fallback strategy, feather fall, flare burst, fleeting defect, floating disk, forbid action, force sword, forced quiet, frostbite, fumblestep, fumbletongue, fury of the sun, Gorum's armor, grasping corpse, hairline fractures, hex vulnerability, hex ward, hide bruises, hide weapon, hideous laughter, hobble, hold portal, identify, ill omen, illusion of calm, incessant buzzing, itching curse, jump, jury-rig, knell of the depths, lead anchor, lock gaze, long arm, longshot, lucky number, mage armor, magic aura, magic weapon, mask dweomer, mirror mantis, mirror polish, mirror strike, monkey fish, mount, mudball, murderous command, murderous crow, negative reaction, night blindness, obscure poison, obscuring mist, open and shut, opportunistic loyalty, passing fancy, peacebond, pernicious poison, phantom blood, poisoned egg, protection from alignment, protection from technology, protective penumbra, punishing armor, qualm, ray of enfeeblement, ray of sickening, recharge innate magic, reinforce armaments, savage maw, secret speech, sense fear, sense madness, shadow anchor, shadowmind, shared suffering, shield, shield of shards, shock shield, silk to steel, shadow claws, shadow weapon, shield speech, sleep, sow thought, speechreader's sight, splinter spell resistance, squeeze, staggering fall, stone shield, strand of the tangled knot, stricken heart, sunder breaker, sun's disdain, sundering shards, theft ward, time shudder, touch of blindness, touch of combustion, transfer tattoo, twisted futures, twisted space, umbral weapon, unbreakable heart, undetectable alignment, undine's curse, unerring weapon, unprepared combatant, unshakable chill, unseen servant, unwelcome halo, urban grace, vexing miscalculation, violent accident, vocal alteration, warding weapon, wave shield, weaken powder, weaponwand, whispering lore, windy escape, wizened appearance, youthful appearance

2nd: aboleth's lung, accursed glare, adhesive blood, adoration, aggravate affliction, aggressive thundercloud, agonizing rebuke, air step, Aldori alacrity, alleviate addiction, alter self, amplify stench, ancestral regression, anonymous interaction, anticipate thoughts, arcane lock, barrow haze, bear's endurance, binding earth, bit of luck, bladed dash, bleed glory, blindness/deafness, blink, blood armor, blood blaze, blur, boiling blood, bone flense, boneshaker, borrow corruption, brittle portal, brow gasher, bullet ward, bull's strength, buoyancy, burdened thoughts, callback, carry companion, cat's grace, cauterizing weapon, cleromancy, cloud of seasickness, compel tongue, compulsive liar, conditional favor, contact entity II, control vermin, create soul gem, crimson confession, curse of befouled fortune, curse of dragonflies, darkness, dark whispers, darkvision, defensive shock, deflect blame, delay pain, destabilize powder, detect anxieties, detect desires, discharge, disrupt link, draconic malice, drain poison, eagle's splendor, enthrall, erode defenses, escaping ward, euphoric cloud, extreme flexibility, false life, fear the sun, feast of ashes, fester, find fault, fire's friend, First World revisions, fleshy facade, flexile curse, flickering lights, fog cloud, fool's gold, fox's cunning, garrulous grin, glitterdust, gullibility, harrowing, haunting mists, healing thief, heckle, hidden blades, hidden presence, hidden speech, hydrophobia, ignoble form, invisibility, invisibility bubble, Kalistocrat's nightmare, knock, levitate, limp lash, lipstitch, locate object, mad hallucination, make whole, malediction, mathematical curse, merge with familiar, mind maze, mindshock, mirror image, mortal terror, muffle sound, nature's exile, necromantic burden, obscure object, open book, owl's wisdom, overstimulate, pain strike, paranoia, perceive cues, phantom trap, pouncing fury, pox pustules, protection from arrows, psychic leech, pugwampi's grace, puzzle box, pyrotechnics, quell energy, quick change, rage, raven's flight, reaper's coterie, recoil fire, resist energy, returning weapon, scale spikes, scare, seducer's eyes, see invisibility, seeds of influence, sentry skull, Serren's armor lock, severed fate, shatter, sickening strikes, silent table, spellcurse, spider climb, stage fright, steal breath, steal size, steal voice, strangling hair, suggestion, summon swarm, threefold sight, touch of bloodletting, touch of idiocy, touch of mercy, toxic rupture, twilight haze, twilight knife, unnatural lust, unravel destiny, urban step, Urgathoa's beacon, versatile weapon, vomit swarm, whispering wind, zone of truth

3rd: adjustable disguise, lesser age resistance, appearance of life, arcana theft, arcane sight, Aroden's spellsword, ash storm, assume appearance, aura of cannibalism, aura sight, babble, beast shape I, bereave, bestow curse, black spot, black sword of war, bleed for your master, blood scent, blot, cackling skull, calamitous flailing, calculated luck, call the void, caustic safeguard, channel vigor, charm monster, claim identity, clairaudience/clairvoyance, cold iron shackles, confusion, conjuration foil, contact entity III, cup of dust, curse of disgust, curse terrain, cursed treasure, deadly juggernaut, debilitating portent, deep slumber, detoxify, dimension door, disable construct, dispel magic, displacement, enchantment foil, eldritch fever, elemental body I, eruptive pustules, excruciating deformation, fearsome duplicate, film of filth, fire trail, flash fire, fleshwarping swarm, fly, foretell failure, forgetful slumber, free spirit, gaseous form, gilded whispers, heart of the metal, hollow blades, hostile levitation, howling agony, illusion of treachery, imbue with addiction, improve trap, infuse effigy, insect scouts, invisibility sphere, iron spine, irradiate, irregular size, isolate, jealous rage, keen edge, loathsome veil, locate weakness, lover's vengeance, magic circle against alignment, magic circle against technology, greater magic weapon, mark of the reptile god, martyr's bargain, mindlocked messenger, monstrous extremities, monstrous physique I, moonstruck, motes of dusk and dawn, mydriatic spontaneity, naga shape I, nauseating trail, nondetection, old salt's curse, paragon surge, greater peacebond, penumbral disguise, phantasmal affliction, phantom steed, pierce disguise, pillow talk, pocketful of vipers, polymorph familiar, poison, project weakness, protection from energy, quieting weapons, raging rubble, rain of frogs, ray of exhaustion, reckless infatuation, remove curse, repel vermin, resilient reservoir, retributive reparations, sadomasochism, sands of time, greater scale spikes, see beyond, selective invisibility, shadow barbs, share senses, shifting shadows, shroud of innocuity, siphon might, slave to sin, sleepwalk, sleet storm, slow, smug narcissism, lesser spellcrash, spite, spotlight, steal power, steal years, stinking cloud, strip scales, swarm of fangs, sword to snake, tactical adaptation, thaumaturgic circle, tongues, trial of fire and acid, triggered suggestion, twisted innards, unadulterated loathing, undead anatomy I, unliving rage, vampiric touch, venomous promise, vermin shape I, wall of mist, wall of split illumination, wind blades, wind wall, wing thorns

4th: absorb toxicity, adjustable polymorph, age resistance, greater aggressive thundercloud, Alaznist's jinx, apathy, greater appearance of life, arcane eye, greater assume appearance, aura of doom, baleful polymorph, baleful shadow transmutation, Baphomet's blessing, battle trance, beast shape II, befuddled combatant, betraying sting, Bleaching resistance, blight, blood boil, blood ties, bloody arrows, boneshatter, cape of wasps, caustic blood, charnel house, Charon's dispensation, greater command, mass compel tongue, compelling rant, conditional curse, contact entity IV, contact other plane, contagious suggestion, covetous aura, cruel jaunt, crushing despair, major curse, curse of burning sleep, curse of magic negation, curse of the outcast, curse of unexpected death, greater curse terrain, damnation stride, deadman's contingency, deathknell aura, decapitate, deceitful veneer, delectable flesh, demanding message, detect scrying, die for your master, dimensional blade, greater discharge, dominate person, draconic suppression, dungeonsight, elemental body II, enervation, enticing adulation, eyebite, familiar melding, fear, feeblemind, fire shield, flaming aura, flash forward, fleshworm infestation, greater forbid action, frosty aura, greater harrowing, hellmouth lash, hostile juxtaposition, hunger for flesh, imbue hex, insect spies, greater invisibility, locate creature, lost legacy, mark of justice, masochistic shadow, medusa's bane, mischievous shadow, mislead, monstrous physique II, mass mydriatic spontaneity, mythic severance, naga shape II, nixie's lure, mass passing fancy, pessimism, phantasmal asphyxiation, phantasmal killer, rigor mortis, rubberskin, rune of ruin, rusting grasp, scrying, greater seeds of influence, sending, siphon magic, shadow step, share shape, greater shield speech, sleepwalking suggestion, slough, solid fog, spellcrash, greater steal years, mass sun's disdain, thanatotic fury, they know, touch of slime, transplant visage, unbearable brightness, undeath inversion, unwilling shield, vengeful stinger, vermin shape II, wall of blindness/deafness, wandering star motes, watchful animal, waves of fatigue, wither limb, wracking ray, wreath of blades, vampiric shadow shield

[Ciaran Barnes]

MA hasn’t posted in ages.

[avr]

IHIYC, a bunch of those spells are curses, fine, but what was your criteria for the others? Was there any such you could write down I mean.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Simple: I followed the trends set by the original list, with reference to both the character of the original 3.5 Hexblade and a touch of personal extrapolation and variation therefrom.

- heavy on 'raw/pure/abstract' magic, much less of the 'elemental/concrete' sort
- very little that directly benefits others aside from the most basic blessings, wards, and counters, but plenty of "selfish" spells (normally I hate how that term is used, but in this case it fits)
- a healthy smattering of utility, mobility, and Divination
- a smattering of battle magic (but more limited than the Magus)
- punitive defenses
- a little bit of 'single-target crucifixion'-type spells at higher levels
- strong on shapeshifting and Enchantment
- very little Conjuration or direct damage
- plenty of Illusion and Necromancy, but with an eye toward the 'subtle/narrow-scope' variety, not 'flashy/far-reaching'
- a bit of accommodation for spells that might not normally work for it, but that would for certain concepts that would make sense for Archetypes of this class (such as spells for undead minions, and all the Familiar-centric spells)
- themes of luck, pain, intrigue, and entropy

I highly recommend the 3.0 Dungeon Master's Guide for a passage on how to go about designing new spell lists - buried deep therein is a great bit about making a fairy-tale style Witch spell list, back from long before an official Witch class was made (it obviously inspired the Green Ronin 3.0 Witch, which I also highly recommend - while I certainly liked Paizo's Witch enough to make one as my 'flagship' character, the 3.0/Green Ronin version was much better as a traditional European fairy-tale witch).

[avr]

Ta. Seeing this I knew what my next big bad had to be.

& yes, I've read that section in the 3.0 DMG.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

avr wrote:

Ta. Seeing this I knew what my next big bad had to be.

If you mean you're using this, with my expansion, I'm touched!

[avr]

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

If you mean you're using this, with my expansion, I'm touched!

Well, yes. Here's what I have so far on the BBEG-to-be, with some of the spells you picked, in case you're interested how it's being used.

Spoiler:

Fern Quickwillow, Gnome Witchblade 12
Female small humanoid

Str 16-2 race=14, Dex 12 Con 14+2 race=16 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 14+2 race +2 ABP=18

Feats
Ability Focus (Cursed Blight), Weapon Focus (injection spear), Improved Familiar (small lightning elemental, B), Additional Traits (irrepressible, excitable), Death from Above, Toughness, Weapon Spec. (injection spear, B), Blind-fighting

Spells
1: Charm person, cheetah’s sprint, lesser curse terrain, dancing darkness, Gorum’s armor, shadowmind
2: Alter self, bladed dash, eagle’s splendor, vomit swarm
3: Arcane sight, call the void, fly

[Quintain]

Has anyone put this class into Hero Lab?