I feel like I'm in Bizzaro world.


RPG Superstar™ 2012 General Discussion

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I don't "Mail in" anything. I spent as much time on Superstar as I have on any other project on my plate.

Frankly, I think Neil should get some kind of a statue for the amount of writing he does for these entries. 95% of the time I agree with him completely. And he apparently works 24 hours a day, so the number of times when I could claim "1st Post" on any of these items was, well, nil.

If I don't think I have anything to add beyond the comments already posted by the other judges, I don't just vomit forth a bunch of words to simply fill space.

If I think I can express my opinion quickly and succinctly, I do that. Most of the time my reasons for keeping or rejecting an item are quick, simple, and easily explained.

Only if I think I have something relevant, useful (or sometimes funny and/or sarcastic to get off my chest) do I expand on those thoughts.

Frankly, if more contestants applied the same logic - writing just what needs to be written and nothing more - they'd have a better chance of getting my vote for the Keep folder.

My perception of this years entries was that we got many, many many more items that fell into one of the autoreject categories than we did last year. The number of items that weren't SIAC, or staves, was really too few. After eliminating the stuff that makes adventuring easier, the stuff that was just silly and/or horribly broken, and the mundane dressed up with fantasy imagery, we were able to quickly identify the stuff that remained that could be worth keeping.

Perhaps the ability of the community to do design in the wondrous item space is exhausted and Paizo needs to consider a new first round option for next year.


Oh - and if you think Round 1 was Bizzaro World, wait until you see what Round 2 delivered.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 aka Cydeth

I'm just frustrated because I have to be at work a half hour before Round 2 goes live, which means I can't read the critiques. Dang it.

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9

Benjamin Medrano wrote:
I'm just frustrated because I have to be at work a half hour before Round 2 goes live, which means I can't read the critiques. Dang it.

I could e-mail it to your work e-mail address, if applicable. :)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 aka Cydeth

Nope. I'm a cashier at a grocery store, so...yeah, not going to have a chance until I get off at 5:30 PST. Ah, well, I'll live. Same thing happened on Announcement day, so I'll be fine.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

Great, now Ryan's really worrying me. Though I guess as long as we all get equal criticism...

I'll be at work too, but fortunately, that's in front of a computer screen and Tuesday's one of our lightest nights.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 aka Cydeth

Well, at least I don't work tomorrow...

*takes a deep breath and braces for impact*

Suppose I should be honest and say that I never actually expected to get called in as an alternate. I don't remember even one being called on in the RPGSS's I watched...though my memory may be playing tricks on me.

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka FaxCelestis

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Oh - and if you think Round 1 was Bizzaro World, wait until you see what Round 2 delivered.

/me is not sure if he wants Ryan to be talking about his entry or not. >_>

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 aka Stormfriend

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Oh - and if you think Round 1 was Bizzaro World, wait until you see what Round 2 delivered.

Royal Society for the Protection of one-legged pugwampis?

Gnomish Michelin guide to foot-licking?

Taldan court of Human Rights?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Monkster

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Oh - and if you think Round 1 was Bizzaro World, wait until you see what Round 2 delivered.

Yikes! Well, as one of those 32, with a little under 3 hours to go before the big reveal of our critiques, I can't say that made me feel any easier about the waiting -- but then, as so many have mentioned (including myself, I must remember) criticism that helps us grow is a good thing.

And, I'm gonna havta grow past the silly little headtrips my fragile lil' ego puts me through whenever the possibility of rejection rears it's ugly head, like in this instance; "...wait, was he talking about MY submission?..." "Well, maybe Bizzaro is a GOOD thing?" "Crap - maybe my entry wasn't bizarre ENOUGH? ...", etc, etc.

[sighs, pulls up his big boy underpants, and waits...]

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9

Oh my...

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

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I think I've figured out the problem...

[wait for it]

We have two Simons!!!

Using the American Idol original judge analogy, Sean used to be the "Simon" role. Now Ryan has clearly usurped that role. Neil is Paula, since he is the nice one and is encouraging of every special snowflake. I'm Randy, I guess, the marginally relevant one that says "dude" and "dog" a lot, and makes musical references that the show can probably do without.

But that means both Ryan and Sean are playing the role of Simon.

No wonder everyone thinks we are meaner! Two Simons means twice the surly criticism.

Solution: we need Wolfgang back next year to increase the judges to 5 and to add another Paula to balance out the extra Simon. I dont think there is anyone nicer than Wolfgang. :)

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9

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Who's Steven Tyler?

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka FaxCelestis

Mike Welham wrote:
Who's Steven Tyler?

Erik Mona?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 8

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Perhaps the ability of the community to do design in the wondrous item space is exhausted and Paizo needs to consider a new first round option for next year.

I wondered myself what might happen if the first round of the next RPGSS involved something different than a wondrous item. Not being a judge, and not being someone who has to churn through hundreds of entries, I can't say what the best alternative might be.

Dark Archive Contributor , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Boxhead

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Oh - and if you think Round 1 was Bizzaro World, wait until you see what Round 2 delivered.

Is it really any worse than it was for the Archetypes last year? Because a lot of that was pretty brutal...

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9

James Raine wrote:
Mike Welham wrote:
Who's Steven Tyler?
Erik Mona?

That works for me.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32, 2012 Top 4

Eric Hindley wrote:
Is it really any worse than it was for the Archetypes last year? Because a lot of that was pretty brutal...

Yikes! You just set off my PTSD.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

Eric Hindley wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:
Oh - and if you think Round 1 was Bizzaro World, wait until you see what Round 2 delivered.
Is it really any worse than it was for the Archetypes last year? Because a lot of that was pretty brutal...

The archetype round last year was all "[redacted] balance, we want cool!" I think only a small handfull were balanced and well thought out. Can't wait to see this years round 2.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka artofcheatery

I didn't even know much about archetypes prior to watching the contest last year and while I've warmed up to them, I really hated them at the time making it hard for me to vote for that round. I had a case of 'thank god I forgot they put on this contest cause I wouldn't know what to do here.'
-X

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

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Mike Welham wrote:

Who's Steven Tyler?

I've been attacked in the Judges' Forum! Neil denies his role as Paula and says I am Paula. I've decided to dodge the issue and volunteer to be Steven Tyler :)

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

So who is Ryan Seacrest then?

The Exchange

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
So who is Ryan Seacrest then?

That will be Mike Welham. ;)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka artofcheatery

Crimson Jester wrote:
Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
So who is Ryan Seacrest then?
That will be Mike Welham. ;)

Really? I thought it was Ask A RPGSupersuccubus.

-X

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9

Alexander Bennett wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
So who is Ryan Seacrest then?
That will be Mike Welham. ;)

Really? I thought it was Ask A RPGSupersuccubus.

-X

That works for me.

Contributor

No, Ask A RPGSupersuccubus is Brian Dunkelman.

Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Clark Peterson wrote:

I think I've figured out the problem...

[wait for it]

We have two Simons!!!

Using the American Idol original judge analogy, Sean used to be the "Simon" role. Now Ryan has clearly usurped that role. Neil is Paula, since he is the nice one and is encouraging of every special snowflake. I'm Randy, I guess, the marginally relevant one that says "dude" and "dog" a lot, and makes musical references that the show can probably do without.

But that means both Ryan and Sean are playing the role of Simon.

No wonder everyone thinks we are meaner! Two Simons means twice the surly criticism.

Solution: we need Wolfgang back next year to increase the judges to 5 and to add another Paula to balance out the extra Simon. I dont think there is anyone nicer than Wolfgang. :)

Mental note to self: say "dude" and "dawg" and "da bomb" a lot to Clark at PaizoCon this year; also, duck oncoming fisticuffs a lot.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

Too bad there isn't a William Hung Award for RPG Superstar... Even if there was, I am sure the judges would keep mum about it.


Ryan Dancey wrote:
Perhaps the ability of the community to do design in the wondrous item space is exhausted and Paizo needs to consider a new first round option for next year.

+ 1,000,000,000.


Abbasax wrote:
I agree with the OP. Even prior to the final 32, the judges comments about the items they saw coming in seemed aggressively critical to me.

+1

I was also turned off by the gazillion RPGSS-related threads some of the judges made before the competition started.

Their tone came off aggressive / irritated more often than not.
Instead of making the reader psyched about the competition (not necessarily participating) he was drowned in dozens auto-reject criteria and stuff like that.

Liberty's Edge

Joana wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:
Perhaps the ability of the community to do design in the wondrous item space is exhausted and Paizo needs to consider a new first round option for next year.
+ 1,000,000,000.

*Looks up from the massive pile of wondrous items he's been working on ever since finding out he'd lost, clearly horrified*


Kevin Mickelson wrote:
Joana wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:
Perhaps the ability of the community to do design in the wondrous item space is exhausted and Paizo needs to consider a new first round option for next year.
+ 1,000,000,000.
*Looks up from the massive pile of wondrous items he's been working on ever since finding out he'd lost, clearly horrified*

:)

Sorry, but I'm sick of wondrous items after reading less than 200 of them over 5 years. The judges have read thousands, and it's starting to be obvious from the feedback: Hasn't this been submitted a previous year?... Of the dozens of <concept> items we've read, at least this one takes a slightly different angle on it.... Oh no, not another <concept>!

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka FaxCelestis

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Problem is, wondrous items are capable of an extremely broad spectrum of things while still being constrained within an easy template. Monsters have a metric ton of math involved and are wildly variable between parties and within their CR. Other items are very constrained as to what they are capable of (weapons basically deal damage, armor basically stops damage, wands and staves and scrolls cast spells, rods modify spells or class features, etc., etc.).

The only other design space that is near as equally broadly-spectrumed while having an easy template to work with is feats, and even there is the issue that feats interact with other feats in strange and mysterious ways sometimes. Further, feats have prerequisites, so it's a conscious, permanent character decision to work with. The opportunity cost on a feat is far greater than a wondrous item.

Wondrous items, at least, have the caveat that they can't be (easily) mixed with certain other same-slotted items, cost money, and are globally acquirable, easily replaceable, and can be introduced into a campaign mid-play without players whining or asking for a restat.

Dark Archive

In my limited experience both writing and editing, if your 'final draft' doesn't come back so marked up with red ink that it looks like a cat that narrowly escaped a chipper-shredder, that doesn't mean that the editor thought it was perfect as is.

It's more likely to mean that he didn't think it could be saved...

Contributor

Hyla wrote:
Instead of making the reader psyched about the competition (not necessarily participating) he was drowned in dozens auto-reject criteria and stuff like that.

Sorry to "flood" you with advice on ways to avoid getting rejected for a bad item concept... :p

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

Hyla wrote:

I was also turned off by the gazillion RPGSS-related threads some of the judges made before the competition started.

Their tone came off aggressive / irritated more often than not.
Instead of making the reader psyched about the competition (not necessarily participating) he was drowned in dozens auto-reject criteria and stuff like that.

I thought those were drowned out by the bazillion threads I start every year encouraging everyone to submit. I'm sure someone could link them. I think we are appropriately (in fact, some would say overly) encouraging of entries as well as supportive of competitors.

Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Clark Peterson wrote:
Mike Welham wrote:

Who's Steven Tyler?

I've been attacked in the Judges' Forum! Neil denies his role as Paula and says I am Paula. I've decided to dodge the issue and volunteer to be Steven Tyler :)

He He, I just got clouted by the missus so will share what I said...

Ready for it Clark?

"Clark is right, Neil is definitely Paula - look at the wordcount he produces!"

2 nano seconds later, I was rubbing the back of my head.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka Jiggy

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Ryan Dancey wrote:
Oh - and if you think Round 1 was Bizzaro World, wait until you see what Round 2 delivered.

I think we know what this meant now.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

I think next year you should actually get Paula to be the fifth judge.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Cartigan would make a great judge.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka DankeSean

Gorbacz wrote:
Cartigan would make a great judge.

Perhaps he could be the Ellen DeGeneres.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Hyla wrote:
Instead of making the reader psyched about the competition (not necessarily participating) he was drowned in dozens auto-reject criteria and stuff like that.
Sorry to "flood" you with advice on ways to avoid getting rejected for a bad item concept... :p

Well, I did not question the intentions.

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