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Well, there have been well over 100 scenarios released, and when you add in all of the sanctioned adventures, there have been enough scenarios out there to get 3 or 4 characters easily to 12th level. Yet we've only had one retirement arc, and none announced on the schedule for the remainder of season 3.
Hopefully we will see a second retirement arc in early season 4?
Director of Brand Strategy
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Despite the ability to get numerous characters to 12th level, reporting data shows that an incredibly low percentage of people (even those who have enough reported sessions to have several 12th-level PCs) haven't played the 4 scenarios we've already released for 12th level. There are better uses of our limited resources than a second 12th-level arc when few have played the one that's already out. We're constantly monitoring reporting data, however, and will gladly put more 12th-level + content on the schedule when the time is right.
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Despite the ability to get numerous characters to 12th level, reporting data shows that an incredibly low percentage of people (even those who have enough reported sessions to have several 12th-level PCs) haven't played the 4 scenarios we've already released for 12th level. There are better uses of our limited resources than a second 12th-level arc when few have played the one that's already out. We're constantly monitoring reporting data, however, and will gladly put more 12th-level + content on the schedule when the time is right.
Yeah, I was surprised at that. At paizocon 2010 we were the high level table of the big interactive, and were the only ones playing that high. I understand that a lot of people play multiple low level charcters, to the point at which they can't get enough mods to get to the mid and low level games.
But I only have 4 PFS PCs. I've retired one character already and have a second that is 1 mod away from 8th level. Then I have a 4th, and a brand new 1st that is a student of my retired character. I'm running him through the season 3 intros. But I'd bet that by Paizocon (which is 6 months away) my 7th could be on the cusp of retiring - and waiting for the next retirement arc to materialize. After all, that's only 12 games. If I play one every other week I'll be set. My point is that Season 4 planning is probably taking place now, or at least I hope it is. I'd like to see another retirement arc started in season 4 at least.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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If you would like to see another level 12 retirement arc your best bet would be to start running or orchestrating the running of the first level 12 retirement arc for other people.
Mark has said that if the play numbers increase tha they will look a creating another arc.
And when you play, make sure you report. We are doing our part in Denver. One group is through three fourths of the series, another group is beginning to get set on a schedule, and a third has started to coalesce around its leader. That should bump numbers up a bit, I hope.
One thing I would mention that may lend a little credence to the idea of another arc: relevance. The NPCs involved in Eyes of the Ten grow more and more distant from the minds of the players as more time passes. It has been a cool experience to revisit them, but I'm concerned that newer groups will shrug their shoulders over what transpires in the series. Having the series be a letdown due to irrelevance would be sad for those involved.
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As far as anecdotal evidence goes, I have 5 retired characters and another on the cusp of retirement, and have both played and GMed Eyes of the Ten (and am trying to get another group organized as well).
I would definitely favor another retirement arc (as a replacement for the current one). The one we have now is just so outdated it's not funny. When I ran it, not a single player knew who any of the prominent NPCs were, and I found myself having to backfill information that would have been common knowledge a few years ago.
I get that it's not profitable for Paizo to invest resources into something that in all likelihood will see little play (compared to another 1-5 scenario or something). I appreciate the increase in higher level play that's available now for 12+, but a new retirement arc would really be a more appropriate "end" to a PC's stint with the Pathfinder Society than just finishing up the final level of Emerald Spire.
Mike Brock has said (since this thread was last commented on) that if a new retirement arc is in the works, that we'd have plenty of notice (~6 months, IIRC), and that it would likely either be announced at GenCon or released around the time of GenCon, so that it can be listed in the new Guide.
So I'd cross my fingers that, sometime after the new year, we'll hear about a new retirement arc. But if we don't, we'll have a long wait on our hands.
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"Eyes of the Ten" definitely is starting to lose a bit of it's relevance in light of events of Seasons 4-6 (although I still think it is good!). I know several people in striking distance (one level or two) who are asking about the retirement arc and I am torn between running EoT or waiting for the new one to come out. Would love an update from the development team on it if possible.
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*hides his VC hat*
From what I remember, there was originally some talk of having a new one this season but the overwhelming opinion of organizers was that they needed new 1-5 options constantly to make their game days continue to work.
I would imagine we'll have a new retirement arc next season at the earliest. I would sure like to see one.
Some of this is a question of where PFS's resources are best spent? Would we have have 4 new sets of SilverHex-esque quests or a new retirement arc?
As a long time player who's earned over 400xp in PFS I would love to see a new retirement arc. I GMed Eyes of the Ten before I played it. I felt like that was a big sacrifice but I planned to play the second one before GMing it. I'm a little sad that this hasn't come to pass.
All that said, I think the focus of resources on the lower level play (silverhex etc) was a good idea for the health of Organized Play. Access to Silverhex is going to make a big difference for us when it comes to new player offerings at our Bay Area Cons.
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I support a new retirement scenario, but not at the cost of the current arc. Which is partly selfish as I am still working towards running it myself. But also because we already have complaints of there not being enough content. We've added APs and modules to the offerings. I don't see a reason to remove Eyes from play. (If you are worried about players not understanding the background of the series, I suggest you do as I am, and run earlier scenarios specifically to prep your party for it. You have to coordinate the table ahead of time anyway, so this should not be a great stretch.)
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Thanks for your comments, everyone!
I agree that Quests are great for bringing in new players--especially the next generation of gamers--but I don't think this has to be a choice of either we have more low-level scenarios OR we have a new retirement arc.
John Compton is working very hard to recruit new writers from the Open Call. These new writers can help with writing new Quests and Level 1-5 material, while one or more veteran authors can pen a new retirement arc.
I don't expect a new retirement arc every year, but it's been four seasons since the last one. I think every 2-3 years should see something new for the level 12 players so that people can begin hopping across the high-level modules and continue playing their Seeker characters.
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Developer
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I agree that Quests are great for bringing in new players--especially the next generation of gamers--but I don't think this has to be a choice of either we have more low-level scenarios OR we have a new retirement arc.
John Compton is working very hard to recruit new writers from the Open Call. These new writers can help with writing new Quests and Level 1-5 material, while one or more veteran authors can pen a new retirement arc.
Without going into too much detail about the context, adding more content is not quite so easy as expanding my pool of freelancers. There's a lot that would have to happen in the office on the development, art, and editorial end to make that happen. That said, Paizo is always growing.
I also have some cool ideas floating around regarding what could go into a level 12 arc that would make a fun story that would hopefully also age well.
but the overwhelming opinion of organizers was that they needed new 1-5 options constantly to make their game days continue to work.
Wow, it'd be interesting to see what the level 1-5 bloat is if this is how the demographics are. Have to wonder if it's because people are getting bored of their characters before getting to level 6, or just dying.
Would it be too much to ask if the distribution of player characters by level follows an inverse linear progression or inverse exponential progression? That is to say, if you put it on a graph, do you get a straight line or a curved line?
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I've seen a lot of comments/posts that indicate that there isn't interest in 12+ due to reporting or general interest. (read a bunch of these threads) I would guess that this is partly due to not actually having anything on offer that is tied to the pfs campaign.
Module/AP sanctioning isn't the answer. None of that material realistically fits into the PFS gaming structure. Every module over level 8 I've run for PFS at con or otherwise has to have significant on the fly cuts to fit in to time slots.
When you advertise that there is really nothing to do after level 11, you don't get after 11 play.
I can see in the Greater Sacramento region at least two tables of 12-16 play a month, if offered in scenario length segments. From my con attendance within the Bay Area, I'm sure they could field 3-4 or more tables a month throughout the region of high tier play.
I'm not asking for monthly 12+ scenarios, but one or two a season would sure be nice.
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but the overwhelming opinion of organizers was that they needed new 1-5 options constantly to make their game days continue to work.Wow, it'd be interesting to see what the level 1-5 bloat is if this is how the demographics are. Have to wonder if it's because people are getting bored of their characters before getting to level 6, or just dying.
So, imagine you've got a small venue, you manage 1, maybe 2 tables on a good night.
You've got the occasional new players coming in, we'll ignore their first night, because they are using a pregen anyway (although I'd argue that playing a level 7 pregen in a 7-11 is not a good intro to the campaign)
So, that player comes back next week having purchased the core book and wants to play their character. The old timers have played all the old 1-5s, and the new player doesn't have any characters above level 1.
There's of course The Confirmation/First Steps, but the old timers have a few characters sitting at level 2/3 from making new characters to play with new players and don't necessarily want to make new level 1s.
A new 1-5 is pretty much the only thing that makes this scheduling work.
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I can see in the Greater Sacramento region at least two tables of 12-16 play a month, if offered in scenario length segments. From my con attendance within the Bay Area, I'm sure they could field 3-4 or more tables a month throughout the region of high tier play.
As a note, we're unreasonably awesome in Northern California, at last count we made up over 10% of the occurrences of Eyes of the Ten.
That said, considering I'm up to 6 characters level 12+ I wouldn't mind seeing some awesomeness for them.
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Despite the ability to get numerous characters to 12th level, reporting data shows that an incredibly low percentage of people (even those who have enough reported sessions to have several 12th-level PCs) haven't played the 4 scenarios we've already released for 12th level. There are better uses of our limited resources than a second 12th-level arc when few have played the one that's already out. We're constantly monitoring reporting data, however, and will gladly put more 12th-level + content on the schedule when the time is right.
I keep hearing this but I fail to see anything come of it Mark.
We've had 2.75 runs of the EotT down here in Jax. I've GM'd 1 and 1/2 runs of it (Parts 2& 3 twice) and played it thru myself.
The big issue is time. We have not had a run of EotT take less than 3 months. My first session (which I Gm'd) took nearly 5 months and we lost a player on the way. My play thru as a player took nearly 3 1/2 months (Holidays, school, and so on). The session I GM'd has taken 4 months so far and is looking to be unfinished as one of the players moved out of the region.
My issue is this: Seeker arcs by their nature are the 'final' hurrah of the players and as such they are things that the players (at least the ones down here in Jax) don't want to do as lash together group of anyone who sits down. All three groups had a good dynamic between players and the PCs and planned out things weeks/months ahead of time. Each of them waited months for the rest of their team to 'catch up'. I know the first team has 2 players wait 7 1/2 months, I myself waited 10 for two players in 'Cayden's Krew'. (Our group) as I was the first to push to 12th level.
These aren't easy to pull off. The first part of EotT was over 8 acts long and had a HUGE set of fights in it. Challenges that ran fast and hard in a gauntlet. The players were at it for nearly 9 hours when I GM'd it. They had a blast.
This, the point I'm trying to make, is the last hurrah and as such it isn't something most players will rush up to and play. In Jax there are something between 2 and 3 groups coming on 12th/33xp and they are all looking around to make their own 'Krew' to do Eyes of the Ten.
There are fewer things the 12 players here in Jax like talking about than their 'last hurrah' with their first characters to do a Seeker Arc. Several are waiting for alternates to EotT to play thru (since recharges of stars down here seem damn few and far between even among the Con Goes) and while all agree the Reborn Forge is an awesome option, it doesn't have the same zing as the backstory and grand scope of EotT for those of us who played it.
It's a module. We need a scenario series that ties to what the players have seen over the last few seasons. I know I'd love to see a Seeker level confrontation with a certain renegade Pathfinder who burned a lot of bridges and is currently up to something behind the scenes.
Several different options for 12+ content has been brought up.. or even a newer tier range of 9-13 has been bandied around by several folks. I like the idea of Quests that tied specific season elements that haven't been covered.
Honestly I think the movie saw says it best. 'It you build (or write it) they will come'.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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Despite the ability to get numerous characters to 12th level, reporting data shows that an incredibly low percentage of people (even those who have enough reported sessions to have several 12th-level PCs) haven't played the 4 scenarios we've already released for 12th level. There are better uses of our limited resources than a second 12th-level arc when few have played the one that's already out. We're constantly monitoring reporting data, however, and will gladly put more 12th-level + content on the schedule when the time is right.I keep hearing this but I fail to see anything come of it Mark.
You are replying to an almost 4 year old post...
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You are replying to an almost 4 year old post...Despite the ability to get numerous characters to 12th level, reporting data shows that an incredibly low percentage of people (even those who have enough reported sessions to have several 12th-level PCs) haven't played the 4 scenarios we've already released for 12th level. There are better uses of our limited resources than a second 12th-level arc when few have played the one that's already out. We're constantly monitoring reporting data, however, and will gladly put more 12th-level + content on the schedule when the time is right.I keep hearing this but I fail to see anything come of it Mark.
True but we keep hearing it in other posts. On the other hand I shall check the dates from now on.
We've had options for high level play shot down again an again. It's always 'the need isn't there.'
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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We've had options for high level play shot down again an again. It's always 'the need isn't there.'
At the time of Mark's post Eyes of the Ten had been reported less than 10 times, so at that time the need was truly not there.
High level content takes a lot more development time than low level content. IIRC Developing the 12+ tier for multi-table specials took about as long as all the other tiers combined, so removing the 12+ tier freed up enough resources to create an additional multi-table special.
12+ modules were added to playable content. Currently there are two 'seeker arc' options and a third is in the making, so I wouldn't say that options for high level play are shot down at all.
Still the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Not to mention chapters of the Emerald Spire supermodule and a number of adventure paths.
I'm looking for more than a single four-hour session in a seeker arc,
and so far only two of the levels of Emerald Spire have taken longer than that (and even those only took six hours).And, in any case, for a retirement arc I'd want to see a story line that was designed around the background of the Pathfinder Society, not just something that happened to be level-appropriate.
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Eyes might get a little more popular now that you can slow track at different levels to hit the exactly 33 xp mark.
Its still hard to get that many people together at the same place at the same time: Eyes has to be run more like a campaign than PFS's usual "we're playing with whatever shows up"
Couldn't agree more. It's your last real run with a PC, you want it to be memorable
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An arc that didn't make the players want to go full on shadowlodge might be nice....Eyes makes Osprey likable. That's an impressive feat by itself.
It does?
Where?
The typical group greeting to him around here is something along the following: "Hey, how you doing..which friend/ex lover/pathfinder will we find dead in a ditch for you today?"
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An arc that didn't make the players want to go full on shadowlodge might be nice....Eyes makes Osprey likable. That's an impressive feat by itself.It does?
Where?
You find out everyone else is less competent than he is, and he's doing the best he can with the yoke around his neck.
Literally every character at my table came out thinking he was an alright guy all along.
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i look forward to a table of eyes but unfortunately i have a lack of solid players in my area that id take into eyes with me. that issue came up recently where our usual gm finally got a chance to play eyes instead of run it, and before anyone else could sign up to play his wife insisted that she gets to burn stars to play it again just cause she wanted to play it again. that aside i refuse to do eyes when 2 people at the table are either not able to contribute or tend to metagame when they do.
