So we have a barbarian, a druid, an oracle, and a wizard. We lost our bard. How would you split the skills?
so that no important skill gets forgotten.
Yeah. Oracle's now party face and knowledges will be split, mostly on the wizard. I guess I could have my Barbarian take sundering but he's a brutal pugilist.
Druid stealth/search
Oracle face
Barbarian disable
Barbarians don't have disable as a class skill though. He has a dex of 14 as well and his archetype gives up TrapSense. I, as GM, decide the traits of my players. Should I give the barbarian a Disable Device trait?
I was thinking of an NPC but I want that to be the last possible course of action.
It's actually ok to give him the trait. He's a brutal pugilist from Alkenstaar and son of an Orc gunsmith. He takes care of the shop sometimes and has skill points in craft: gunsmithing.
Barbarians don't have disable as a class skill though. He has a dex of 14 as well and his archetype gives up TrapSense. I, as GM, decide the traits of my players. Should I give the barbarian a Disable Device trait?
I was thinking of an NPC but I want that to be the last possible course of action.
Barbarians don't disable traps with the skill, they disable them by walking over them and by smashing them.
that's an idea. but as a brutal pugilist, he's aiming for improved grapple, which will leave him with improved sunder at level 5. That's 15-20 meetings.
I've had great fun "disabling" traps, opening locked doors, etc. with a barbarian using a warhammer and/or crowbar.
I think you are going to find there are less important skills then you think. Here is a list of what I would consider the truly crucial skills
Diplomacy for dealing with people.
Knowledge Arcane for obscure magic and identifying constructs, dragons, and magical beasts
knowledge Dungeoneering for identifying aberrations, and oozes, also useful in caves
knowledge Nature for general use, and identifying animals, fey, monstrous humanoids, plants.
knowledge Planes for identifying outsiders
knowledge Religion also for general use and identifying undead
Perception for too many reasons to list
Sense Motive also for dealing with people.
Spellcraft for identifying magic.
Most of the other skills can be handled by other means especially magic. Summons can be incredibly versatile if short term is all that is needed. They can also scout the area and even trigger the traps. Dispel magic works vs. magical traps. Invisibility can handle boost your stealth past what a skilled character can manage.
A lot of skills also do not need to be that high and only need a couple of points to be useful. Climb, Heal, Ride, and Swim don't really need to high of a roll.
He doesn't need improved sunder to bash a chest open, or to set off a magic trap. He just needs to be able to soak the resulting damage.
We've had this come up in games before.
The remaining players just optimize their characters slightly less. Group decided everyone had to have at least a 12 int and didn't pick any classes that only had 2 skill points (except wiz due to high int). And I think each person took 1 skill focus feat and/or a trait to make something a class skill. Then divided them based on ability scores. oracle takes a bunch of char skills, wiz takes the int skills, barb takes the dex skills, and just divide the rest however seems reasonable.
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Trapped locks? Adamantine Summon Nature's Ally.
This happened to my players. The Rogue switched to a summoner at the last minute, and they ended up with 3 PCs at 9 Int in classes that got 2 ranks per level, and 1 PC at 10 Int in a class that got 4 per level (the barbarian) with no humans in the group for extra skill ranks.
The barbarian dipped ranger pretty early and now has plenty of skill ranks, and the others just devoted the few they have to each having a skill specialty among the group.
And then the cleric died and that PC's player rolled up an inquisitor as a replacement. Plenty of skill ranks now.
So we have a barbarian, a druid, an oracle, and a wizard. We lost our bard. How would you split the skills?
Druid and Wizard use spells and animal companion/familiar to cover everything and make PCs having skills pointless.
Seriously, everyone should take Perception. Someone (probably everyone) should have UMD. Casters need Spellcraft. Knowledges are kind of important sometimes I guess for some GMs.
Other than that, there is not a single skill whose function can't be duplicated by spells.
Edit: I also apparently forgot Sense Motive.
Other than that, there is not a single skill whose function can't be duplicated by spells.
Sense Motive is nice, unless you plan on spending a slot on Detect Thoughts every single time you want to talk to someone.
Sense Motive is nice, unless you plan on spending a slot on Detect Thoughts every single time you want to talk to someone.
Other than that, there is not a single skill whose function can't be duplicated by spells.
We have an oracle. Nevertheless a haunted time seer. So I dunno. But no sense motive for the first 3 levels is scary. Especially when people are douchebags just cause you're new.
Anyways. Thanks everyone. your help and advice is appreciated.
Barbarians don't have disable as a class skill though. He has a dex of 14 as well and his archetype gives up TrapSense. I, as GM, decide the traits of my players. Should I give the barbarian a Disable Device trait?
I was thinking of an NPC but I want that to be the last possible course of action.
-Tossing on the trait for disable should be good. Most of the DC's aren't that high.
So we have a barbarian, a druid, an oracle, and a wizard. We lost our bard. How would you split the skills?
I know I am repeating some stuff but it's easier for me to have it all in one place:
Barb good for Perception, Intimidate, Survival, Acrobatics. Some rage powers may add some utility.
Druid good for Survival, some Knowledges. Could see if player was interested in Urban Druid, which adds some additional useful class skills. Spells where needed. Higher levels, can shapeshift into creatures to go unnoticed in the right places.
Barb and Druid together should be party scouts.
Oracle - good for your party face stuff, find traps at 2nd level. Should probably focus on buffing if possible since bard would be chief buffer (or can split this between the three spellcasters).
Wizard - GREAT for Knowledge skills; high Int means lots of skill points. And of course lots of awesome utility skills.
As for Disable Device -- while allowing a trait that makes it a class skill for someone would be fine, you also could probably work around it if you needed to. Break the trap, have one person set it off and suck it up (Barbarians are good for this). This is mean and may have consequences, but you could also use Summoned monsters like sheep over landmines. Also stuff like magic to move through the wall to bypass the trap, levitate over the pressure plate, etc.
And for magical traps, you have THREE spellcasters. By the time magical traps become a real problem, they should have dispel magic.
And someone else mentioned -- there's always dipping. A level or two of rogue or ranger or urban ranger could probably round out anything the party's missing. I'd suggest rogue as it's the most skill points for 1 level, adds a lot of class skills, and a die of sneak attack never hurt anyone (well, the person the rogue was flanking, but still).
You have three tier 1 full spellcasters and a tier 4 tank- don’t dump the role of skillmonkey on the tank also by making him use his feats or traits.
It’s simple- drop the druid, bring in a rogue or bard. Ranger can fill the role, and so can the summoner if you have his eidolon take 2 skill evolutions.
Really in a Gygaxiian trap and lock heavy dungeon, there is NO substitute for a skillmonkey.
I don't want my characters to drop their roles. Druid is set on being a druid. A magic/melee switch-hitter.
I don't think anyone should have to change their character concept---they lack some skill monkey ness but looks like a party with a lot of potential versatility.
I've generally found that as long as players are clever and adaptive, they'll find a way for their weird party combo to work.
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... as long as players are clever and adaptive...
Some times this seems to be asking alot. {sigh}
that's an idea. but as a brutal pugilist, he's aiming for improved grapple, which will leave him with improved sunder at level 5. That's 15-20 meetings.
Improved Sunder is only useful for the Sunder special attack, which is when you break an item used by a creature.
For generally bashing the heck out of inanimate objects (like traps), you only need Power Attack, big muscles, and a 2-handed weapon.
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Another wild and radical option:
Let them role-play their way out of situations that require skills they don't have.
Especially with social skills, this is super easy to implement. If you still want to use skill rolls, allow them to role-play interactions, and reward good roleplaying with substantial bonuses to their diplomacy, bluff, etc. checks.
Traps: One character needs high perception to find traps, but after that, you don't have to disable the trap to bypass it. Poison needle in the door handle? Smash the handle off. Pressure plate on the floor? 10' pole, big rock, summon monster, etc.
This sort of play-style gives a big advantage to clever problem solving players and players who are good at improv/role-playing, depending on the relative makeup of your group of players this may be fun for everyone, or not, only you know the answer to that. Obviously if you have a dwarf monk rocking charisma 5, and this is his first time out of the monastery, you may have to remind the player that he can't use real-life social skills that his character doesn't have ;)
an axe disables most traps rather nicely. opens doors too. and chests.
Sets off traps, destroys loot.
I would just design your campaign around the group if possible. Let them roll Intelligence for any Knowledge checks.
Or you can let them hire an NPC skill monkey if they REALLY need one.
Oracle and Wizard actually. The druid would lose druidship for cruelty to animals.
Oracle and Wizard actually. The druid would lose druidship for cruelty to animals.Then why do evil druids exist?
PETA
Make whole fixes that.an axe disables most traps rather nicely. opens doors too. and chests.Sets off traps, destroys loot.
"Items with charges (such as wands) and single-use items (such as potions and scrolls) cannot be repaired in this way."
Taking a axe to a chest full of potions, scrolls and wands, esp when that chest is trapped with a explosive spell, makes it pretty darn easy.
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A mean dm can have your character fart at the exact pitch to shatter the glass of your potions. I doubt most will be that extreme, even with just having loot break while you bash open a lock. If a gameboy can remain usable after the small house it is in is hit with a missile, a magic item should be able survive inside of a locked chest while an explosive trap goes off.