Eidolon grab and constrict clarification

[Pygon]

I just made a summoner for PFS today and wanted some clarification.

The Bestiary discusses Grab and Constrict, making it pretty clear that a successful bite grab deals immediate constrict damage as well. A maintained hold on subsequent rounds continues to deal both the bite and constrict damage.

The eidolon Grab and Constrict abilities seem more limited:

Eidolon Grab just lets you grab on a successful attack.
Eidolon Constrict, on a maintained hold, lets you deal the damage of the attack that was used to grab.

Is the intent to have an eidolon with bite + grab + constrict only deal the bite damage on a successful maintained hold?

Thanks for any insight.

[rkyeun]

Pathfinder SRD > Classes > Base Classes > Summoners > Eidolons wrote:

Grab (Ex)

An eidolon becomes adept at grappling foes, gaining the grab ability. Pick bite, claw, pincers, slam, tail slap, or tentacle attacks. Whenever the eidolon makes a successful attack of the selected type, it can attempt a free combat maneuver check. If successful, the eidolon grapples the target. This ability only works on creatures of a size one category smaller than the eidolon or smaller. Eidolons with this evolution receive a +4 bonus on CMB checks made to grapple.

When you bite (if you chose bite), you immediately get a free try to grapple.

Pathfinder SRD > Classes > Base Classes > Summoners > Eidolons wrote:

Constrict (Ex)

An eidolon gains powerful muscles that allow it to crush those it grapples. Whenever the eidolon successfully grapples a foe using the grab evolution, it deals additional damage equal to the amount of damage dealt by the attack used by the grab evolution. This evolution is only available to eidolons of the serpentine base form.

If that grapple granted to your bite by Grab works, you also immediately do constrict damage (the damage is equal to your bite).

Pathfinder SRD > Gamemastering > Combat > Combat Maneuvers > Grapple wrote:

Grapple

As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options. If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition. If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails). Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).

If you continue the grapple granted to your bite by Grab and that grapple is successful, you also immediately do constrict damage (the damage is equal to your bite).

[Pygon]

So, based on what you're highlighting, it looks like the eidolon's Bite+Constrict ability is not as damaging as a usual Bestiary critter's Bite+Constrict ability.

On a maintained hold, an eidolon doesn't deal continuous damage with bite+grab. With Constrict, the continuous damage is bite only.

Thanks.

[j b 200]

yes butif you maintain your grapple you also get to do damage as one attack as described on pg 200 of CRB.

My question is about the size restriction. They retconned grab to allow for creatures your size or smaller (as opposed to one size smaller). Was this done after the APG was written and if so should the grab for Eidolon be changed to conform with the new grab rules from the Bestiary 2?

[Pygon]

From the PRD, on a successful maintain of grapple:
"Damage: You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal."

This was the detail I was missing.

So on a continuous grapple, I can deal damage equal to any of my natural attacks (including the one I used to grab) AND deal Constrict damage (ONLY from the attack used to grab).

I do think I understand now.
That's good. I was beginning to think eidolon Constrict kind of stunk :)

[bigkilla]

Remember to get greater grapple on that bad boy to grapple as a move action to do the damage, then make a grapple attempt as a standard action to do it all again.

You would need to invest in a few more feats,improved unarmed strike, improved grapple,greater grapple but the results can be really nice.

[Avatar-1]

I'm wondering the same thing as jb200. As per:

Quote:

The grab rules for the Bestiary say the ability only works on creatures smaller than the monster, but the grab rules for Bestiary 2 say the ability works on creatures of up to the monster's own size. Which is correct?

Bestiary 2 is the new, updated version: grab works on creatures up to the size of the monster with the grab ability. The next time we do a reprint of the original Bestiary, we'll update all references to grab and similar abilities to reflect this change.

—Sean K Reynolds, 03/05/11

Does this also apply to the grab evolution for eidolons?

[Artanthos]

For fun and games: on a synthesist, take a couple levels of monk + feral combat training. Use your bite attack with FoB, each hit resulting in a grapple and constrict.

While your at it, make your bite poisonous and give it a free trip.

[Scrynor]

Sorry for the huge necro but I'm mining for synth stuff.

Does that FoB thing really work? I get it for multiple poisons but continuing to receive your flurry attacks after you've started a grapple, or re-grappling a guy you are already grappling to multi-tap the constrict... does it really work that way?

[Scrynor]

Ooh, also since it isn't explicitly covered above. I see that you get to constrict again when you maintain, but do you get to constrict on every successful grapple check like monsters (ie, to damage, to pin, etc) or just on the maintain check?

[Sodapop]

Well, you definitely can't FoB during a grapple (if you are the one in control) since you have restricted action. If you are being grappled you can, but that's not relevant here. Since you can drop a grapple as a free action if you are controlling it, I think the suggestion is that you bite, grapple, constrict, then let go on every attack during the flurry of blows, assuming the attack lands and you succeed on your grapple check.