My question is simple - how should this be handled if it is cast on a PC? The spell allows no saving throw, and while the spell description does say that "A clever recipient can subvert some instructions," it generally sounds like they would be forced to obey. The consequences for not following the order are clear, but the spell doesn't say the target can choose to disobey and take the penalties, because the penalties are listed in the context of "If the subject is prevented from obeying."
RAW, it sounds like the enchantment specializing sorceress my player may end up fighting could simply cast Geas with a command of "defend me from your allies," giving them almost no way to prevent the effect. So, fellow GMs, how would you handle this? I've included some more snippets from the spell description below.
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:Places a magical command on a creature to carry out some service or to refrain from some action or course of activity, as desired by you.
:While a geas cannot compel a creature to kill itself or perform acts that would result in certain death, it can cause almost any other course of activity.
:The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed, no matter how long it takes.
:This spell functions similarly to lesser geas, except that it affects a creature of any HD and allows no saving throw.
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Geas has a ten minute casting time. That limits its combat effectiveness.
IMO, Geas is one of those spells that, if cast on a PC, requires a mature GM, as well as a mature player.
I agree with Ashenfall. I've known a number of players who would rage/quit the moment they were effected by a spell like this.
The fact that it is a compulsion spell makes it much easier to interpret.
COMPULSION SPELLS: A compulsion spell forces the subject to act in some manner or changes the way its mind works. Some compulsion spells determine the subject's actions or the effects on the subject, others allow you to determine the subject's actions when you cast the spell, and still others give you ongoing control over the subject.
In an earlier edition, I had a character with geas cast on him. He told the caster, screw it! And killed him. Took damage every bloody day from that spell, and I was on my last few hit points when I finally crossed the desert to city large enough to have a cleric that could remove the bloody thing (and heal me!). But it was a blast!
Master Arminas
RAW, it sounds like the enchantment specializing sorceress my player may end up fighting could simply cast Geas with a command of "defend me from your allies," giving them almost no way to prevent the effect. So, fellow GMs, how would you handle this? I've included some more snippets from the spell description below.
If that player stood around for 10 minutes while the Enchantress cast Geas on him, I think he deserves it.
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RAW, it sounds like the enchantment specializing sorceress my player may end up fighting could simply cast Geas with a command of "defend me from your allies," giving them almost no way to prevent the effect. So, fellow GMs, how would you handle this? I've included some more snippets from the spell description below.If that player stood around for 10 minutes while the Enchantress cast Geas on him, I think he deserves it.
If you set this up right, the "hot barmaid" your player hooked up with could do just that.
If you set this up right, the "hot barmaid" your player hooked up with could do just that.
Are you in the habit of letting hot barmaids cast spells for 10 minutes straight in your presence? It's not like they can hide that they're casting something. I think I would start getting suspicious pretty quickly into it.
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Depends on what she was doing to distract me.
...actually, scratch that. You said 10 minutes, so I'm not sure how she'd hide the other 9:30.
Then again, if I was in a deep sleep, how would I even know that she was casting? She could just pay a hooker to dose me, and then cast while I was out.
There are certain ways that a clever DM can use to get this spell to be cast on a PC.
If you set this up right, the "hot barmaid" your player hooked up with could do just that.Are you in the habit of letting hot barmaids cast spells for 10 minutes straight in your presence? It's not like they can hide that they're casting something. I think I would start getting suspicious pretty quickly into it.
Well... Barmaid implies booze, so perhaps during a drunken slumber post encounter. Hmm, a thought, if one were to metamagic it silent, could that barmaid who has been staring intently at you over the course of the night cast it with you none the wiser?
Then again, if I was in a deep sleep, how would I even know that she was casting? She could just pay a hooker to dose me, and then cast while I was out.
I think then we're in James Bond Villain territory. If she's got 10 minutes with you while you're drugged and out of it, why is she Geasing you to "protect me from your allies" rather than murdering you outright or Geasing you to "murder all your allies in their sleep" or something like that?
This would be great for a high level spellcasting thief. Spend the night with one of the PCs, acting as a high-end hooker or hook-up or whatever. When the PC falls asleep she casts geas on him without his knowledge.
The next night when the PC goes to sleep again, the geas' command activates and he wakes up in a sleep walk of sorts, loots all the party gear, and hides it in the forest at a predetermined location for the thief to pick it up. He then goes back to sleep, waking up with the others in the morning being none the wiser ("hey, where's are stuff!?").
Would make for an interesting scenario as the only available evidence would most likely lead back to an extremely confused PC.
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Truthfully I tend to use geas as a plot device, such as, after a party member dies and the characters are not sufficient level or do not have enough money to raise him or her, a local high level cleric might offer to raise the character for free if the party leader agrees to be geased to perform a task of service to the church, likewise if the characters want a powerful wizard to make a special or powerful magic item for them, they might have to accept a geas to perform some service the wizard needs help with.
Then again, if I was in a deep sleep, how would I even know that she was casting? She could just pay a hooker to dose me, and then cast while I was out.I think then we're in James Bond Villain territory. If she's got 10 minutes with you while you're drugged and out of it, why is she Geasing you to "protect me from your allies" rather than murdering you outright or Geasing you to "murder all your allies in their sleep" or something like that?
Well, like you just said; we're in James Bond Villain territory. Why would any BBEG spend 10 minutes monologuing, only to leave the room while the sawblade was moving towards your crotch at the rate of one inch per minute?
IMO, for an evil antagonist, a turned enemy is better than a martyred enemy. Why else would the Emperor and Vader give two rat's @$$es about turning Luke, instead of just killing him while he was still a scrub?
For the villainess doing the geasing, perhaps the PC has access to some place she doesn't (temple sanctum, king's private chambers, castle treasury, etc.), and she needs him alive.
As a Cleric who doesn't fight, but instead manipulates everything through Compulsion and Enchantments, I'm wondering how you could make the Geas a viable combat option.
I'm thinking if you can somehow freeze a character in place for 10 minutes it'd work and the same could be said for if you hide around a corner, out of sight and hearing distance whilst looking at your target. Both seem unlikely and far too situational, though.
To me, the casting time is pretty much broken and the only real way I could see this working is if you were some kind of Assassin who sits on top of a very high cupboard, staring at his/her target for 10 minutes, getting them to perform some mundane task.
I think the best thing for this would have been to have kept most of what the Lesser Geas does, but instead, made it so that you can cast this on any HD creature whilst still using your DC, instead of having it make contact every time without fail. Also, it'd be a full round action. It means you can still miss and it'll be harder to hit them, but it's still a Level 6 Cleric spell, so I really don't feel it would break the game.
If I were a GM, I'd balance it like that and allow it to be used in the above way, but now I have the fine task of asking my GM if he'll allow that.
Has anyone tried running a game where two teams of players were on opposing sides of an adventure at the same time? Or a high level PC retired from adventuring and took up world domination?
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Geas is not a reactionary option. If you want it to take effect in combat, you have to set up a geas ahead of time as a sleeper instruction.
In combat its just "Would you kindly....."
I always wondered if Geas could be cast on a sleeping or unconscious target? I understand that its language dependent, but do they have to be awake to take it?
Is there a way to weave the geas into a tale you are telling the party concealing the casting of the spell and placing the orders inside the story?
Otherwise creating a magic item, like a book that casts the geas on the reader may be an option to get around the casting time in an indirect manner.
I would rule that could be possible, with the proper Bluff/Perform rolls to hide it.
A group of players I was running brought a fallen ally to the nearest temple to be raised. They were a short on money, but I have never known this to stop a group of adventurers from trying. Though it was a church of a neutral deity and no party member was a follower, the clergy agreed to help. When they got their ally back there was a mark of justice on her head. A geas could be applied in the same way.
I would rule that could be possible, with the proper Bluff/Perform rolls to hide it.Is there a way to weave the geas into a tale you are telling the party concealing the casting of the spell and placing the orders inside the story?
Otherwise creating a magic item, like a book that casts the geas on the reader may be an option to get around the casting time in an indirect manner.
I wouldn't rule that way, or I would at least make the DC extremely high. Unless the spell description says otherwise, I usually assume spellcasting is very hard to hide, as it involves speaking in a strong voice and producing measured and precise hand movements. Granted, this is a GM judgment call, but passing off chanting arcane syllables and making precise gestures, in a world where magic is common, is a little hard to disguise when you're doing it when it's just a standard action. Over ten minutes?
By the way, a less-than-scrupulous member of my party in a high-level game once used the Inner Sea World Guide spell vision of Lamashtu to remotely deliver geas spells as part of a nightmare to enemies he could not actually locate. It allows a Will save if you do it that way, but on the other hand, it's an easy way to deliver the spell since you can do it from literally anywhere else on the plane!
Yeah the 10 minutes usage sorta kills it's effectiveness. It still has its uses however.
In my homebrew game, I have a "loner" type character who kept running off on their own and getting themselves practically killed. Now since they had placed a lot of effort into the character, but I didn't want to keep running solo scenes for them as they ran around getting themselves killed. So when he got KO'd by a bunch of Zombies, he was picked up by the "Necromancer" leading the undead. He then, after casting the scroll for 10 minutes, geass'd him to casually travel back to his guild's hq with the band of travelers and retrieve his guilds founding artifact for him in addition to pulling his punches in combat every time he sees someone wearing his guilds colors. Oh, and of course to not mention his mission or the Geass to anyone.
This did 3 things:
-It gave the Loner player a reason to actually travel with the party, where as before he didn't have an "in character reason". After this he'll presumably build ties to the party for the future, and should he complete his quest/remove the curse, but still decide to travel alone, I can kill his character with a clean concious.
-The Geass gives the bad guys some insurance from the rest of the party. Having someone one thier side trying to ensure their escape(or at least their non-destruction) is a nice thing to have.
-Helps build up the Villian. When he betrays them for the artifact or it's revealed he has a Geass on him, the player will inherently build up this villians image in the minds of my players. And that, is a very good thing imo.
Now, inside of combat? I don't think there's much one could do without previous castings, but that's not what the point of the spell is.
Silent Spell means you can cast the spell without sound, but issuing commands to the creature requires it to still comprehend you.
So, unless you are issuing commands telepathically the spell will ultimately fail since the target doesn't understand your request.