I think this is where you let Darwinism take it's course. You've explained just how tough this guy is, don't serve him up on a platter let him take them on fair and square. If it winds up being a TPK which honestly it probably will be that's on them. It's like telling someone the stove top is hot and watching them put their hand on it anyways.
What are the Rangers unarmored AC and HP?
No metagaming. I'm not going to have him wounded by bears just before the fight. Is there anything else I can reasonably give the players to make this fair?
You can give one of them a chance to escape. Probably the Halfing Rogue, as it is very easy to create a hole/passage that only a Small size character can squeeze into.
If the scene is outdoors, mention the rabbit that dashes away from the party and uses the hole to escape. If you want to add foreshadowing, make it one rabbit who escapes from the fox; a fox who is tearing another rabbit into bloody chunks.
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TPK time... Muahh ahh ahhh Question does the ranger have an archetype and or animal companion? Whats his favorite enemies? and i believed someone above asked his AC stat without armor? It will be Extremely hard for that group (listed above) to surprise a ranger if hes out in his favorite terrain.
My guess is they are all going down or end up captured... all gear taken and back in the dungeon again as slaves making up for the serf's they helped escape the first time.
I think a party who took the time to gather the information they would need and prepared appropriately could handle that encounter, most because that ranger is smite-able.
However, if the ranger's favored enemies affect members of the party, the balance is even more tipped.
Not to mention it would have to played very smart.
Can't they use tower shields to get close to him and surround him? The rogue will benefit, they will get a bonus to attack and the ranger will have generate AoOs if he uses his bow.
Maybe they could rig one of his traps with a smoke bomb, to get close to him.
I agree with Whipshire. If he even keeps any alive, the rest are slaves. Sounds like the party is about to be taught a harsh lesson in verisimilitude.
tell them again that not every fight was meant to be, that they have to know when to run away or not start a fight at all, and that it will be near impossible for a lvl 2 to get ressurected.
Perhaps they don't like their characters or your campaign and want a TPK without really telling you? I once grappled a soon-to-be evil god with my lvl 6 sorcerer for that reason.
maybe let the Pc know that there are other people that might be interested in taking down this scumbag?
Could a 2nd level group take on
The Slaver of Mistwood
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 13
CHA 10
HP 53
AC 12 (DEX +2)
Stealth +12 (+17)
Perception +11
Survival +14
Favored Enemies: Animals, Humans
Favored Terrain: Wooded Hills (Local Area)
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
Many Shot
Skill Focus: Survival, Craft
Endurance
Hunter's Bond: Son's
Woodland Stride
Magic Items: +1 Magical 16 STR Composite Long Bow, Cloak of Elven Kind
Yes
In a straight up fight, probably not without a great amount of luck. They will need a really good plan. I probably wouldn't make him alone, unarmoured and wounded by a bear. What I would do is figure out his normal routine, when he sleeps, eats, uses the outhouse, etc... and let the players make a plan. If they can catch him in a vulnerable position, great. Otherwise, they know what they are getting, let the dice fall where they may. But keep the npc human, capable of mistakes.
Why are you making it fair?
Why do you want to allow your players to do something stupid? No. Let me rephrase that. Why are you changing thigns to make something really stupid 'possible' or 'fair'?
Don't pull the punches. Just TPK and they can chalk it up to experience.
If they really DO kill him then good for them - but I'd say this is much more satisfying for them if they don't kill the sanitised, cut down, correct challenge rating for a level 2 party version.
Seconded
Why would he be TRULY unarmored to check his traps, to avoid check penalties? if he's 7th lv he prob has masterwork studded or +1 mithril breast plate at this point with no check penalty. 4 2nd lvs have almost NO RIGHT to lay a finger on a 7th lv. the paladin could do a little but, no, they SHOULD lose this.Your players SHOULD not do something suicidal, if you save them ONCE they won't learn.
I also agree they could keep tabs on him, grow stronger and in maybe 3 or 4 levels come back (and then he may only have gained one or two levels or maybe NONE in the time that takes) and 5 level 5s could prob take him on at level 7-9ish
The Slaver of Mistwood
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 13
CHA 10
HP 53
AC 12 (DEX +2)Stealth +12 (+17)
Perception +11
Survival +14Favored Enemies: Animals, Humans
Favored Terrain: Wooded Hills (Local Area)
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
Many Shot
Skill Focus: Survival, Craft
Endurance
Hunter's Bond: Son's
Woodland StrideMagic Items: +1 Magical 16 STR Composite Long Bow, Cloak of Elven Kind
Yeah. They could take him down. Wouldn't be easy though. I imagine they would lose folks in the process, and the inability to get the drop on him would be a very big problem. I'd recommend using tower shields and a total defense action to try and survive long enough to close into melee, then drop them and draw pole-arms. I recommend pole-arms because it allows everyone to flank him without getting overly close, while also making it difficult for him to just 5ft step out of everyone's reach. Rogues can also use longspears, so that helps get sneak on.
A very, very big thing will be buffs. If they want to pull this off, I highly recommend quaffing as many potions as they can afford. Some good cheap ones are things like enlarge person, protection from evil, and magic weapon, which should give a fighting chance. That would require about 300 gp worth of potions for each member (the halfling can skip enlarge person).
That gives you an enlarged Oracle (w/ 2d6 longspear), Paladin (w/ 2d8 glaive), Antipaladin (w/ 2d8 glaive), and the not-enlarged rogue (1d6 longspear), +1 to hit and damage, and 3 of the 4 party members will have a 20 ft. reach, allowing them to surround the guy and beat him senseless if he tries to shoot, sneeze, or move towards them to attack. Remember that they need to quaff all the potions from behind some sort of total cover (such as trees), then mob him as best as possible as quickly as possible.
[b]EDIT:[b] KEEP IN MIND! It is imperative that the group does not allow the ranger to gain concealment. If he does, then he can Stealth and close in on one of the PCs to kill them easily, so getting a few sunrods wouldn't be a bad idea either.
The easiest way to give them a chance is to not let them find him right away. Give them a couple of encounters and maybe gain a level or two. You mentioned he is at least two days travel from where they encountered him. This should give you a chance for at least a couple of encounter if not a mini adventure. Also if he is a high level ranger finding him may be a problem. It's probably not that unusual for him to spend a couple of weeks in the wilderness. Done properly they could be around 4th or 5th level when they finally encounter him.
A 7th level Ranger with a couple of lower level Rangers as followers would make a good but not TPK for a party of 4th or 5th level characters. Also give them a chance to get some better loot, and maybe some information on him that would help them ambush him.
A good villain that the party really hates is hard to make happen so don't waste a good story.
Poison food stored in his house when he is away checking traps and set traps around his settlement, maybe even on/under his bed? Or ambush him when he's asleep (the paladin in party may disagree though). Hire mercenaries in nearby towns, persuade townfolks to deal with the slaver ranger. Wait once when he strips away from his armor (when taking a bath or going to sleep?), maybe apply poison on his armor or steal his armor or something. (although these may conflict with the paladin as well)
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Sounds like you've made it plenty fair. Either they get lucky rolls and take him down, or they lose a lot of friends, maybe even all of them.
Yup.
They get 4 attacks a round and should be pre-buffed with a plan. So they have a chance against an unarmored enemy.
Now if it were me, I wouldn't have him at home in the hamlet, I would have him off doing something. So they have to go find him, things happen along the way, etc...
Maybe the ranger went off to find some macguffin, maybe the ranger is making contacts in X town.
This could become a long enough chase that the party levels to a point where you are comfortable with the fight without any nerfs.
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I would suggest having a foggy morning where the whole forest is enveloped in fog. Make it like a weak obscuring mist so that past 60 feet you have 100% concealment.
This will let the party close without being made pincushions but still gives the ranger time to get a few shots off. The ranger's perception and stealth should let him attack first but I think it still gives the party a chance.
No one else sees the fact there's an anti-paladin and a paladin in the same party? If they're lucky they might take him. Sundering his bow would go a long way.
I thought it just added additional hardness and hit points and couldn't be sundered by non-magical weapons.
I may be remembering wrong, but I recall PF bringing that 3.0 rule back.
Page 174 of the Core
"Each +1 of enhancement adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield, and +10 to the item's hit points."It says nothing in the sundering section of combat.
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This just sounds like a great campaign hook. You could either have him strike nonlethally and enslave your pcs, or have him off on some project that the party finds out about and may wish to put an end to.
If they burst in, have them scare the housekeeper half-to-death and be pounced on by a fierce housecat.
I agree with Fenrisnorth. My DM rule is the same, I will go out of my way for PCs not to die unless they do something exceptionally blatantly stupid or it serves dramatic purpose. Sometimes you MUST teach them about their mortality the hard way. If they decide to go through with it running away while the bad guy harries them or having them captured (he is a slaver) and selling all their new magical goodies should be lesson enough. If they defeat him later the gold he makes from taking their stuff will still be in his possession.
Have the ranger discover that the PCs are coming. The ranger and his slaver buddies try to trap the PCs and sell them into slavery.
If the ranger succeeds, then you a really great start of a campaign :)If the ranger fail but manage to escape you have great nemesis for your PCs!
Look up ; "Scourge of the Slave Lords" for ideas!
So what could these poor sods have in the works that the PC's could take advantage of?
Well, at this point I would, out of game, make sure the players know they are likely to all die if they face the level 7 now and ask them why they don't feel they can go gather power(items/allies, both conveniently leading to adventure ideas) and then come back to get their revenge. If the party has a death wish just send them against the slaver and let them all die, if they underestimated how badly overmatched they are give them chances to work against the slaver indirectly.
To that end, I would first have the town aid the players by finding ways to catch the ranger's two sons alone. Have the ranger be currently off tracking in the wilderness or something that takes him out of reach of the level 2's, but also far from his(I assume) reasonably close to PC's levels sons. They can take the sons out with aid from the townfolk, work against the baron's men, then maybe a drow raid comes out of nowhere and the people need the party to fight off the raid and hunt down the few drow who got away with captives, turning into a short chase-adventure to a small drow camp.
All of those adventuring ideas should get your party some xp, the goodwill of the town, and let them get revenge on slavers and the slaving ranger in particular when they kill his sons. By the time the ranger(and a couple flunkies maybe) come back the party could be comfortably 4th or 5th level, able to handle a level 7 ranger and any allies in a more or less fair fight. If the party insists on going for the ranger now and ignoring all else pull no punches. Have them meet on his favored terrain, have him use his skills well, and have him wipe the floor with them, maybe using nonlethal arrows for a couple to capture and enslave if you don't want a full TPK.
2nd level? Sounds like you did all you could to warn them and they are having none of it. Worse comes to worse its a TPK and you can just start a new campaign, or revamp this one with completely new characters.
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Paladin and Anti-Paladin
In the same party....
Lawful Good with a restriction of not working with evil characters...
Chaotic Evil with a restriction of not working with good characters...
HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyways how can they track him down? Do they know where he lives? is it common knowledge? They have no ranger and no bard, it might be an adventure on its own just to FIND this guy. And when he knows they are on his trail he would do one of two things.
A) Set up a series of deadly traps to kill or deter them.
~and/or~
B) He is worried he cant take a 5v1 situation (which is a very real possibility) and he retreats to a safer location/goes into hiding/joins his drow buddies.
Essentially make it an adventure to get to this guy, giving them time to level up once or twice before the inevitable face off.
Paladin and Anti-PaladinIn the same party....
Lawful Good with a restriction of not working with evil characters...
Chaotic Evil with a restriction of not working with good characters...
HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyways how can they track him down? Do they know where he lives? is it common knowledge? They have no ranger and no bard, it might be an adventure on its own just to FIND this guy. And when he knows they are on his trail he would do one of two things.
A) Set up a series of deadly traps to kill or deter them.
~and/or~
B) He is worried he cant take a 5v1 situation (which is a very real possibility) and he retreats to a safer location/goes into hiding/joins his drow buddies.
Essentially make it an adventure to get to this guy, giving them time to level up once or twice before the inevitable face off.
I REALLY LIKE THAT LAST IDEA
Ti did something like that, basically a mass combat with some ogres and a ton of goblins and town guards fighting them. 6 3rd adventurers come in to help. a few rounds later a 14th level character starts slaying the guards and civilians. i do the math for damage out loud and they see how much damage the people are taking and how many attacks he was getting the party retreated and hunted him until NOW!Last week they took him down while they were at 12th level!
it was epic and it never would have happened if the party went off half-cocked and died early
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As GM you have the ability to delay this encounter. Have him go off to check his traps - make his trap line incredibly long and hard to get to... Basically you have the power to drag this out as long as it takes... This is the type of plot hook that GM's dream of - the kind that takes no effort on your part to create. Your only job here is to put off the climactic battle until the party is a little more experienced.
It depends on how optimized they are and how they want to go at it.
If they are smart and they can get to talk to him alone, maybe pretending to ask for his help or to look for a job and he doesn't consider them a menace (not unlikely since they were 1st level a few days earlier), they can give it a try.
My plan would be to close in to flank him, and use aid another to help the smiting paladin to trip him. The ranger's CMD should be around 22 (10+7+3+2): the paladin CMB should be around 9 (2+3 str+3 cha + 1 mwk weapon). If bull strengthened, with a trip weapon he could go as high as a 13, with 2-3 others helping him he can get to 17-19, which gives him a more than decent chance to trip the guy.
At this point the ranger will have to get up giving all of them an AoO at +4 (from trip) and he will have to choose between a single attack (probably not enough to kill the sturdiest of them) or to reposition himself, giving them the chance to charge him (of course unless the terrain prevent them to do so, not unlikely at all).
Now, would I try something like this?
No, there are a lot of if, all of which can get them killed. If they were to wait till they were level 3 I'd favour them. At level 4 I'd give the ranger almost no chance.
What spells can the oracle use? Bless is another +1 to hit and CMB, which is good, protection from evil won't make the PCs impossible to hit but will help. Command: fall would be another trip chance (DC around 14, save around 3, it's a really good chance, 50%, and they don't have to be all around the ranger to try it. A potion of eagle splendor would also help to raise the DC)
The paladins can also use divine favor, another +1 to hit, damage and CMB.
As always, casters do make a difference: if the oracle has command they can give it a try and hope to survive, otherwise their chances are very close to zero.
Ranger is a slaver?
Ranger enslaves party. Figure out a way to continue the story from there. No need to kill everyone, you can afford to let the ranger try non-lethal attacks to down guys.