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I was going to post a huge rant about last year’s 4 Star/VC exclusive scenario being included as one of the 2 releases for this month (still a little upset about that). But then I realized something...
I am assuming that the new 4 Star/VC exclusive will also be released to those that can run it next month to make up for the lack of a new scenario?
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Correct.
Actually the Date on that release is Feb 27, 2013 so it does not confirm that it will be a limited release for This Feb.
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You are correct that Venture-Captains, Venture-Lieutenants, four-star GMs, and Paizo staff will have the scenario available at the end of February 2012. The generic release date is one year later, February 2013, like Midnight Mauler was from last year to this year.
Cool, Thanks Kyle!
Now I just need to GM 22 more games to get my 4th Star!..
Or convince our nearest VC to visit.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Todd, there's another EX module released in February.
So, "3-15: The Haunting of Hinojai" is released, "3-16: The Midnight Mauler" goes from being an exclusive to being a general release, and "3-EX: The Cyphermage Dilemma" is a new exclusive.
However you want to cut it, it looks like a total of two releases to me.
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However you want to cut it, it looks like a total of two releases to me.
What we have is:
1 New Release
1 Prior year old limited to Full Release
1 new limited Release.
I still am not a huge fan of that, before the 4 star exclusive was added we would have had 2 new releases, it makes me think less of the 4 star exclusive.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Sorry if folks aren't happy about releasing Midnight Mauler as part of the regular scenario rotation for Season 3. There are a number of reasons we went with this option, and in the end, there really was no feasible alternative.
Were we to simply make a year-old scenario purchasable, it would likely go mostly unnoticed, even if we sent out emails and made it a blog post. By releasing it as part of this season, casual players and GMs will see it listed among the other scenarios under the current season's offerings in the web store.
Furthermore, there simply wouldn't have been time for us to get out two new numbered scenarios next month along with a new exclusive to carry us through the rest of the season and into this time next year. With limited resources in the campaign and my development time split between Pathfinder Society and other projects, we had to go with what was closest to doable in terms of workload. As it is, there will still need to be changes made to the scenario (dropping the lower subtler, for example, and reworking some of the faction missions to cover the five new factions and only a single mission per faction) that will take time not normally devoted to a third Pathfinder Society offering in a month.
If folks have a real problem with any of this, I'm happy to take alternative suggestions for next year, but my response is likely to be: "if you want more resources for the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign, spread it in your area and increase our numbers to justify more scenarios/team members working on it."
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I initially had a problem with it, but then noticed the new VC/4-Star offering. That mollified me (and actually has me pretty happy).
I'm quite content with what you've been doing lately. The mix of tiers and speed of release has been pretty much spot on.
The only thing I think you could do is cut back on the number of multi-part modules released around the same time. Having a Part 3 and Part 2 releasing this month is making for scheduling issues, as people want to play them in order. It's made my player list pretty stale, and has thrown off a lot of regular players who only show up once a month. Splitting these series up by a couple months would have been nice.
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If folks have a real problem with any of this, I'm happy to take alternative suggestions for next year, but my response is likely to be: "if you want more resources for the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign, spread it in your area and increase our numbers to justify more scenarios/team members working on it."
Without all these editing issues for next year should it be less of a problem to add a new one instead? Also I don't buy the it would go unnoticed reason, adding it as a third scenario for the month would give it just as much advertisement as all the scenarios you release for that month.
I personally prefer if this is how the 4 Star/VC exclusive is going to be in the future is to get rid of that all together.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Last year, when Midnight Mauler was being developed along with two scenarios that also released that month, it about broke the system. That's not something I plan to risk in the future, as I'd rather get out what we can reasonably get out to folks than risk getting nothing out instead. I will thus make no promises of how we will handle the exclusive scenario in Season 4, as we'll need to make that decision when it comes time to order next February's scenarios.
The only people for whom this is not a "new" scenario are those who either have a 4-star GM or VC in their area or who traveled to a convention where it was being offered. For everyone else, it's brand new.
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The only people for whom this is not a "new" scenario are those who either have a 4-star GM or VC in their area or who traveled to a convention where it was being offered. For everyone else, it's brand new.
[Tongue in cheek]
I curse Doug Miles for making a special trip out to my town when he was VC to run this extremely awesome session for my group! Now I'm down a session that I probably would have played months from now if it hadn't been run by him!|
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But soon you too can run it for new players in your area who didn't get a chance to play it under GM Extraordinaire Miles.
You obviously are not overly familiar with his tactics and how he ran so many sessions. There are no new players in Michigan. If it came out before this last november Doug ran that scenario 1,647,273 times. Coincidentally, he really sucks at reporting, kidnap sedatives are making all time sales records here the last 3 years, and if you multiply that number of sessions by 6...it oddly coincides with Michigan's population. I leave you to draw conclusions.
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The only people for whom this is not a "new" scenario are those who either have a 4-star GM or VC in their area or who traveled to a convention where it was being offered. For everyone else, it's brand new.
This has grown significantly since last year, now you have many more Venture-Captain, Venture-Lieutenant and 4 Star GMs so the pool has grown who will get to play this. But it still limits who can play it.
Not having it as a Bonus Scenario just removes from Society and really adds nothing.
Like I said, if you are not going to make it a Bonus Scenario because it is too much work, I would prefer it not being exclusive and open it to everyone.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Like I said, if you are not going to make it a Bonus Scenario because it is too much work, I would prefer it not being exclusive and open it to everyone.
It's already a Bonus Scenario (though capitalizing that may be unnecessary, as it's not an official term we use for exclusives). In a month, it will no longer be exclusive, and will be open to everyone. I'm glad I could meet your request without needing to change too much around at the last minute.
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It's already a Bonus Scenario (though capitalizing that may be unnecessary, as it's not an official term we use for exclusives). In a month, it will no longer be exclusive, and will be open to everyone. I'm glad I could meet your request without needing to change too much around at the last minute.
What Huh? Either that is really cool, or you misunderstood me.. I am talking about The Cyphermage Dilemma.
I am seeing The Cyphermage Dilemma as the second New scenario for the Month of Feb limited to some, and The Midnight Mauler as an old scenario now opened to all...
Which to me is worse then 2 New sceanrios opened to all.
Edit: If you are saying The Cyphermage Dilemma will be opened to all in a month, that would be cool.
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What I meant was considering they were going to do Cyphermage Dilemma limited release + Midnight Mauler general release on top of the regular scenarios, Id rather get 1 regular scenario for the month that they took their time on and made awesome, than 2 that they kinda rushed through cause of everything else and they turn out just kinda ok.
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What I meant was considering they were going to do Cyphermage Dilemma limited release + Midnight Mauler general release on top of the regular scenarios, Id rather get 1 regular scenario for the month that they took their time on and made awesome, than 2 that they kinda rushed through cause of everything else and they turn out just kinda ok.
Once again huh?....That still makes no sense...
They are still doing the same amount of work for what I am asking for what you said...
Making Cyphermage Dilemma limited does not reduce the workload of the scenario... It does reduce amount of new scenarios for all PFS players...
Workload is not in the equation at all for what I am suggesting..
Get rid of the Exclusive Scenario idea and make Cyphermage Dilemma to everyone.
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Get rid of the Exclusive Scenario idea and make Cyphermage Dilemma to everyone.
Yeah...NO. Don't do this. I think it's fantastic that Paizo has found yet another way to entice folks to GM. Coordinators have a tough enough time with this (see other recent threads; Painlord's and at least one other).
Of all the other Paizo GM enticements (pride from stars by your forum name, etc.), this one is the one that most makes me think "Hmmm, I wanna be a 4-star GM. Perhaps I'll try to GM every other time I make it to the table, rather than once every 4 or 5 times." This from someone who now lives in Wyoming {place with the LEAST Pathfinder action in the entire lower 48}, in a small town {located more than 300 miles from the nearest VC's home area} and who only gets to play when he travels back to VC Azmyth and Painlord's turf {about 1 week every two months} for work. Doing some back-of-the-envelope math...it'll take me about 8 years of GMing EVERY time I travel to SF to get to 4 stars. NOTE: I have no stars at the time of writing this. Still, I feel inspired to GM by this little exclusive scenario perk.
-E
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Yeah...NO. Don't do this. I think it's fantastic that Paizo has found yet another way to entice folks to GM.
But it is no longer an enticement, since it now takes away from the whole..
I don't think I am explaining myself well..
At first I believe this was supposed to be a Bonus Scenario added to the New ~28 scenarios a year, but due to Paizo not being able to handle the workload it is no longer a Bonus scenario.
Instead of getting 28 New scenarios a year we now get:
27 New scenarios
1 year old scenarios that some have played
1 New scenario that only some can play
So now we are actually getting less due to this.
As Venture-Captain, Venture-Lieutenant and 4 Star GMs grow even though it is a good thing it will also mean that more people will have played the exclusive so even more people will not have 2 new scenarios in the month of Feb, and there will still be people that will only have 1 that month.
In other words it adds nothing and takes away from the whole.
Since Paizo can't handle the workload of it being a Bonus scenario and making it a incentive to GMs, it is no longer worth it since it takes away.
It is best to remove the Exclusive Idea until they can actually handle the workload of a Bonus Scenario.
Edit: As an Example I only have 1 New scenario I can play for the Month of February since I already played Midnight Mauler and since I am neither a Venture-Captain, Venture-Lieutenant or 4 Star GM or have one the can reliably come *We have a VC near by, 2 Hour drive, but he does not visit often since I handle everything for him down here* I can not run or play Cyphermage Dilemma.
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Edit: As an Example I only have 1 New scenario I can play for the Month of February since I already played Midnight Mauler and since I am neither a Venture-Captain, Venture-Lieutenant or 4 Star GM or have one the can reliably come *We have a VC near by, 2 Hour drive, but he does not visit often since I handle everything for him down here* I can not run or play Cyphermage Dilemma.
Wouldn't this be a perfect example of where someone should be setup as a Venture Lieutenant?
Someone is already doing the work, and it would fulfill a need, as well.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Edit: As an Example I only have 1 New scenario I can play for the Month of February since I already played Midnight Mauler and since I am neither a Venture-Captain, Venture-Lieutenant or 4 Star GM or have one the can reliably come *We have a VC near by, 2 Hour drive, but he does not visit often since I handle everything for him down here* I can not run or play Cyphermage Dilemma.Wouldn't this be a perfect example of where someone should be setup as a Venture Lieutenant?
Someone is already doing the work, and it would fulfill a need, as well.
I'm interested to know what people think about this as well. I live on the other side of the state from Washington's VC and, because of that, my gaming area has never seen hide nor hair of any society coordinators. We haven't really had a need for one - our players defer to the gm rulings, make legal characters, ask questions regularly, etc - but it would be nice to have some contact. I believe there still a call out for a Spokane VC (about 1.5 hrs north), so someone picking up that slack might be a start in the right direction *calling out Spokane GMs*
Edit: just checked the list and it looks like Spokane has been taken off the requests side - maybe there's a new VC/L coming soon...
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Ok, try number 3 at explaining this:
Since they are going to release Cyphermage as VC special and put Midnight Mauler out as a general release:
I would prefer to Paizo to release:
Cyphermage limited release
MM full release
1 reguler scenario that was well planned and playtested
Instead of Paizo releasing:
Cyphermage limited release
MM full release
2 regular scenarios that werent as well planned and playtested because they were rushing to get stuff out on time.
Dragonmoon, in response to your complaint that it's somehow less cause of the way they are doing this, think of it like this:
Midnight Mauler was(I know it wasnt, just humor me) always intended to be a regularly released scenario for season 3 at some point. During season 2, they did an early release of that season 3 scenario by allowing VCs/ 4star GMs to run it for people. Now that we are into season 3, anyone can play it, and they are going to do a early release of a season 4 scenario, Cyphermage Dilemma.
If you think of it like that, we are really 1 scenario ahead, opposed to 1 behind. Or at least right on par, instead of one behind, cause I dont know if Midnight Mauler was the first VC special or not...
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The Exclusive scenario isn't just an enticement to GM, it's also a perk for players who get to play it as well - that feeling of getting to play something special. Yes, not everyone gets it, just like not everyone gets the special stuff at a Con.
I'm sure if Paizo didn't have to do all that work for GenCon (which I haven't been to yet), they'd be able to spend more time working on my favorite parts of the game instead. But that would be an unreasonable demand on my part.
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I have to say I don't understand the opnion how losing a New sceanrio that no one has played open to everyone is a good thing..
That just makes no sense to me.
It comes down to this...
We have gone from 28 Brand spanking new scenerios that everyone can play when they come out, to a possible only 27.
No Argument will convince me that is a good thing, and I am surpised as hell that that there are people who think that is a good thing.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Dragnmoon,
I think it's a thing. Not bad, not good. There are 28 new scenarios available. There are 28 available scenarios that everyone can run. You're sort of cherry-picking your qualifications to say that there's only 27 scenarios that fulfill both qualities.
In any case, I want to thank Mark for the explanation, and for the effort that was required to update Midnight Mauler for Season 3. (I am sort of curious, though, as to what counts for the scenario victory condition. I imagine that it might well be one of the toughest scenarios to 'win'.)
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Dragonmoon, Have you run MM yet? I know I haven't. I drove 3 hours to a Con where that was the only scenario I played. None of the others in my group have played it. So not only did I get to play it, now I get to run it for my group.
Yeah, some might have already played it, but not everyone has and a lot have never run it. So to MANY it is a brand spanking new scenario! Just because you got to enjoy something earlier than others doesn't mean they can't enjoy it now. So please stop complaining. You've said no argument will convince you, so stop arguing. Agree to disagree, because nothing you post will make a bit of difference to them releasing it how they've chosen to release it. We know your opinion on it, you're beating a dead horse now...
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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No Argument will convince me that is a good thing, and I am surpised as hell that that there are people who think that is a good thing.
What about the tier 12 scenarios that sucked up two spots in Season 1 and two spots in Season 2? Those are hardly "open to everyone." Combine them with the two four-part scenarios that (initially) could only be played in order after each other, and Season 1 was very restrictive at the time. In Season 2, the 4-Star special occupied a third spot, and the Year of the Shadow Lodge Special occupied a fourth spot, making for only 24 "open" scenarios, really.
Opening up Midnight Mauler like this, along with another scenario plus the Special actually is significantly better than all that.
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill, Dragnmoon.
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So to MANY it is a brand spanking new scenario!
My whole point is that to ALL every months new release should be brand spanking new scenario. Not to many, not to some, but to all.
I have no problem with an exclusive but if it removes that one of the scenarios released for Feb will not be a new scenario for everyone, I am not a fan of that.
Drogon - I understand where you are going there, and that is a good point to argue from, but they where still open to all of PFS even if all could not play them.
You have to understand something here, With this and the new Module rule coming all I am seeing are options of playing being removed and that does not seem like a good thing.
It is starting to build angst on me so I will argue against them.
Edit: To tell the truth I went from being upset about it, to being ok about it because the Exclusive was being released the same month and I will be a 4 star soon and my Players will get to play it. But then I realized that might not be the case for everyone so I went being back to upset about it and arguing for the ALL. ;)
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But then I realized that might not be the case for everyone so I went being back to upset about it and arguing for the ALL. ;)
It's probably worth checking that the all agree with you first...
godsDMit's post above is the most eloquent explanation of why I think it's fair to everyone, more or less.
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It's probably worth checking that the all agree with you first...godsDMit's post above is the most eloquent explanation of why I think it's fair to everyone, more or less.
To tell you the truth his position still does not make sense too me..
Too me it seems he is arguing another subject all together, Development time, which is not related at all to what I am speaking too.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Too me it seems he is arguing another subject all together, Development time, which is not related at all to what I am speaking too.
The exclusive scenarios are not going anywhere. Our most active volunteers love being able to run them and players like playing something they know that not everyone gets to play. We produce as much content as we can on a monthly and annual basis, and always do what we think is in the campaign's best interest, even if that means producing less, higher quality content.
Development time—and by extension, editorial resources in general—plays a huge part in this discussion because it's the common denominator for every piece of material we release. Perhaps you're shouting into an echo chamber because you aren't addressing this issue and everyone else is.
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I will add this last thing, and I think I am done unless someone can show me I am wrong.
My argument is that we no longer have the case that there will be 28 Scenarios available to All.
That is it, that is my only issue, nothing else.
I have seen people bring up a bunch of stuff, but nothing has gone against that fact.
I know it is a Fact, because for the Month of Feb, one of the release I already played, the other is open to everyone and the third is something I can't run or Play because we none of us qualify currently.
Those are facts, that reduce what is available to all PFS players.
It seems an unnecessary thing to do and the idea on why it is being done is not worth losing that scenario.
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Too me it seems he is arguing another subject all together, Development time, which is not related at all to what I am speaking too.
I'm talking about the second half of his post.
Basically, you seem to want to classify 'The Midnight Mauler' as a season 2 scenario, and 'The Cyphermage Dilemma' as a season 4 scenario, to be able to manufacture some outcry. Surely to be consistent, you must class one of these as a season 3 (Feb 2012) release?
Remember also that with the 'First Steps' trilogy, we're already three scenarios up on previous seasons.
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Perhaps you're shouting into an echo chamber because you aren't addressing this issue and everyone else is.
Actually they are not addressing the issue I Brought up, and I know because I started it!!! ;)
I understand Development time means that that the Exclusive can't be a Bonus to the 28 Scenarios, which means now it requires the make it one of the 28.
That is my Issue, I am not arguing against that your wrong about the development time, You are the one that does it, I Believe you when you say you can't fit it in as a Bonus Scenario.
What I don't see is that what you are saying the positives of possible taking 1 scenario away that is available to everyone outweighs the negatives of losing it.
Other things can be done to reward 4 Star GMs, but the option of taken away from everyone else to reward them does not sit well with me.
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Basically, you seem to want to classify 'The Midnight Mauler' as a season 2 scenario, and 'The Cyphermage Dilemma' as a season 4 scenario, to be able to manufacture some outcry. Surely to be consistent, you must class one of these as a season 3 (Feb 2012) release?
Remember also that with the 'First Steps' trilogy, we're already three scenarios up on previous seasons.
That is inaccurate..
I am classifying The Midnight Mauler as a Bonus scenario last year That some got lucky to play. Therefore for them the Month of Feb since it is now release to everyone replacing a Totally new scenario for everyone they lose out of 1 of the 28 because they might not get lucky and play The Cyphermage Dilemma. Sure it will be released to everyone in 2013, but that does not change the fact that they lost a scenario in 2012.
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I can only Assume I am not articulating my complaint well since no one but Drogon has addressed it *Did someone teach you Dragnmoonish Drogon? ;)*.
That is fully possible since I am only seeing my arguments from my perspective, and even though I am seeing it as well articulated I am fully aware that may not be the case.
So... Here is an example of a good counter-argument to my complaint.
My Complaint is that it is very possible that players that got to play The Midnight Mauler in during Season 2 may not get lucky and play The Cyphermage Dilemma in Season 3 so for all those players they lose a scenario for season 3.
A good counter-argument is that it is very possible for those that did not play The Midnight Mauler in Season 2, who then get someone who Qualifies to Run the Exclusives now have an Extra Scenario for that season!
I know this because this year I will be a 4 Star GM which means I will be able to run it and not all my players got to play The Midnight Mauler.
That is an excellent counter-argument, but since I am the one that made it and it is not healthy to argue with yourself I am dismissing it..;)
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Ok, how about if I make it into a math problem:
For the purposes of this math problem, lets assume that the exact same number of people will have access to and be able to play Cyphermage Dilemma before its general release in ssn 4, as had access to and got to play Midnight Mauler before its general release here in ssn 3. It probably wont be the same, but Id assume the number for the new one cant possibly be lower than the old one.
With me so far?
So, for the problem:
X= The people who were/are able to play Midnight Mauler/Cyphermage Dilemma before general release.
Y= The people who were not/ are not able to play Midnight Mauler/ Cyphermage Dilemma before general release.
Also X + Y = 1. Ok?
So, when Paizo has a regular month:
1 scenario + 1 scenario = 2 scenarios.
When Paizo does this:
1 scenario + (1-x) + (1-y)
= 1 scenario + Y scenarios + X scenarios
= 1 scenario + 1 scenario = 2 scenarios.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I can only Assume I am not articulating my complaint well since no one but Drogon has addressed it *Did someone teach you Dragnmoonish Drogon? ;)*.
Nah. I've just argued with you enough times that I've learned to figure out what you're actually saying. d-:
That, and I initially had the exact same complaint (in the other thread). I just retracted it when I realized the Special was being released, as I'm fine with that. But, yeah, I know exactly where you're coming from. Just decided it wasn't a big deal when I had more information.