I guess it's all a matter of personal taste. I love the downer-style artwork. I liked it in the back-of-Dungeon articles and I like it in Pathfinder. Hopefully they'll split the difference and satisfy everyone.
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Creative Director
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Please change the artwork style in #2 (if still possible), PF isn't supposed to feel like a comic, is it?
Maybe we should do an art preview of Pathfinder 2 as a blog post...
But yes... the "cartoon" style of art, if I remember correctly, will not be going forward in future Pathfinders except for a few images by Kyle in the Foreword and perhaps in the previews of next month section at the end. For Pathfinder 2, our artists are, I believe, James Zhang, Warren Mahy, John Gravatto, Ben Wootten, and Andrew Hou. I'm sure I forgot someone, but since we had a lot more time to order art and work on Pathfinder in general for 2 (since Dungeon wasn't interrupting us... only Gen Con), the art is MUCH closer to where I and Pathfinder's art director want it to be.
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Maybe we should do an art preview of Pathfinder 2 as a blog post...But yes... the "cartoon" style of art, if I remember correctly, will not be going forward in future Pathfinders except for a few images by Kyle in the Foreword and perhaps in the previews of next month section at the end. For Pathfinder 2, our artists are, I believe, James Zhang, Warren Mahy, John Gravatto, Ben Wootten, and Andrew Hou. I'm sure I forgot someone, but since we had a lot more time to order art and work on Pathfinder in general for 2 (since Dungeon wasn't interrupting us... only Gen Con), the art is MUCH closer to where I and Pathfinder's art director want it to be.
As the saying in these boards is by now: Which publishing staff in the d20 industry pays such close attention to it's readers' opinions? (and I did get the hint in PF #1's foreword aimed at those not visiting these boards yet! I.e. inviting even more comments ;-)).
Thanks for the fast reply, James![no shameless endearing, just stating the obvious]
Your choice of artists for issue #2 sounds very promising (and I don't want to diminish Kyle's work, it just didn't fit the interior of the adventures). More cartoonish artwork for "everything editorial"* sounds very good to me and would set rpg and the editorial more clearly apart.
Greetings from Austria,
Günther
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* apart from Foreword and Preview: Maybe you would like to add one page comic "comments" on/ "episodes" of the adventure in the same PF issue...
Agreed on all of Herr Guennarr's posts, and many, many thanks, James, for actually listening. Getting rid of the Laubenstein art and increasing the font size will certainly retain me for one as a very happy Pathfinder subscriber.
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Creative Director
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Agreed on all of Herr Guennarr's posts, and many, many thanks, James, for actually listening. Getting rid of the Laubenstein art and increasing the font size will certainly retain me for one as a very happy Pathfinder subscriber.
Increasing font size is a different beast, alas. One we can't really do until Curse of the Crimson Throne starts in Pathfinder 7.
Increasing font size is a different beast, alas. One we can't really do until Curse of the Crimson Throne starts in Pathfinder 7.
Luckily, until then, I can still download the PDF and view it at like 175% normal size. Being a subscriber rocks!
I gotta say, I loved the less realistic style of artwork. Shaelulu, Bruthazmus, and Orik were especially cool. Actually, I really liked the images of Aldern and Tsuto, too. I think they go a long way towards establishing a pathfinder "feel" to the campaign that makes it really distinct, and the exaggerated features serve too highlight some of the cosmetic changes between the core rules and the Pathfinder campaign setting.
I gotta say, I loved the less realistic style of artwork. Shaelulu, Bruthazmus, and Orik were especially cool. Actually, I really liked the images of Aldern and Tsuto, too. I think they go a long way towards establishing a pathfinder "feel" to the campaign that makes it really distinct, and the exaggerated features serve too highlight some of the cosmetic changes between the core rules and the Pathfinder campaign setting.
Us too! Expect Andrew and James's illustrations to grace Pathfinder's pages until they get too exhausted to work any more. In fact, in Pathfinder #3, Andrew will be showing us Golarion's take on all the core races. It's pretty special!
Shaelulu, Bruthazmus, and Orik were especially cool. Actually, I really liked the images of Aldern and Tsuto, too.
Different strokes for different folks; I personally thought Bruthazmus looks exactly like an Ewok and Shaelulu a were-rabbit.
Orik--well, he's obviously massively overcompensating for something... but really, he wouldn't be able to drag that sword, much less lift it. Still, barring that it's a fairly good ilustration. Tsuto I really did kind of like; not so much that style, with all the proportions wildly out of whack, but the execution of that particular piece was laudable for ANY style. I wouldn't be too depressed seeing more from that artist. But the Korvut, Niska Mavshti, Ameiko illustrations... they've just got to go, in my opinion.
Y'know, while we're talking about art preferences in Pathfinder, I'd like to mention that I'd like stuff like this:
http://www.cimmerianfans.it/con1.jpg
...and this...
http://www.rehupa.com/images/lancers_conan_usurper_painting.jpg
...and this...
http://picasaweb.google.de/douglasdraa/DougsBooks/photo#5102307952056093266
Occasional forays into this...
http://www.stormbringer.net/images/mouser/gods.jpg
...and this...
http://www.waynesbooks.com/images/graphics/lkcoa2.jpg
would be good too.
-The Gneech
i dont like the cartoon style charakters, but love the other artworks (who is the artist of my avatar?)
I think the strongest feature of Pathfinder (and similar works) is the opportunity to see multiple perspectives. Whether the writing or the art, it is only stronger for having more people add the vision. Andrew Hou has become one of my favorite artists that Paizo showcases, but I think I might get bored if he was the only artist in the book. Laubenstein didn't have my favorite NPC portraits (though I don't think they were bad), but I thought his goblins were really interesting and definitely added to the whole. I also really liked Tsang's portraits. I enjoy seeing different peoples "takes."
My hope is that more "cartoony" artwork isn't completely eradicated from Pathfinder. I love the mix-up of styles present: some "realistic" and some "cartoony." I think that Paizo has been better at this than WotC whose artwork tends to always feel the same to me.
I want the art in my Pathfinder to be as vibrant and varied as the writing.
Wow you really just channeled your inner Dr. Cox . . .i mean reaaaaaally.
Ahahahaha that is EXACTLY what I was thinking!
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I think Hou et al are very good artists, I just can't stand their art style. All that it would take to make me like their artistry is if they made their art realize that physical forces such as gravity and physics exist.
Flatten the hair, thin/balance the swords, and make sure that plates of armor aren't so big that you can't bend your elbows and knees. Elves having slightly larger eyes is completely realistic, but humans have a specific range of eye sizes. Feel free to stick to that range!
As far as anime as a whole, the things that really get me are the way the mouths move and the chins don't. It's so distorted that often the opening of the mouth actually covers up the chin. I really, really, REALLY hate the thought of a 150 pound man wielding a sword that probably weighs upwards of 75 pounds (with over 70 pounds being pure blade). I can't stand the way that all anime characters seem to have only 10 strands of hair, and yet their hair is more full than Jesse Spano's hair after an accident with a mousse can (see Full House), not to mention that gravity doesn't seem to exist in anime (or at least has a legal clause that doesn't allow it to affect hair). Speed lines are crap. If you can't figure out a way to make your animations show action without copying the exact same face for 80 frames and just adding lines to show speed then you need to go back to art school.
The bottom line is that (at least in my opinion), D&D is based on the fantastic, but still tries to keep imaginations realistic. It's a very nice balance, and anime/manga/japanimation absolutely kills the mood for quite a few people. I used to be the biggest He-Man fan in the world... until I saw the "new" series' rendition of Skeletor. Skeletor is NOT a ninja, but it seems that every character in a japanese style cartoon is a black-belt in crap-fu.
After drooling over the gorgeous previews, I have to say I was a bit disappointed by the interior art, especially NPC portraits after getting my hands on the first issue.
Dr. Jacobs and Mike McArtor mentioned that "variety is good" earlier in this thread but I have to disagree. Instead of providing a mismash of different art styles to please everyone I think you could differentiate in a positive way from your competitors by presenting a consistent view of the Pathfinder world. Make the brave decision and tell us how the world feels and looks like you already tell us how it functions.
Practically every D&D source is filled with random collection of different styles - monster manuals being the prime examples. There is one exception I know of and it is the big Ptolus book, and I seriously think one of the reasons it is so appealing is the consistency. Ok, maybe there are a few slip ups in the Ptolus book but you get my point.
I'm glad that the maps in Pathfinder are very consistent and very high quality - one of the reasons I was hooked up in the beginning. It seems that all maps are done by a single artist and that is the right way to go. Hopefully the interior NPC art could also be as consistent as the maps and be in-line with the rest of the product like the covers, monster section at the end and the gorgeous imagery by Andrew Hou.
Please fix this in the upcoming issues and keep up the otherwise exceptional quality and you've got a winner.
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I completely agree with Krovenko. Nothing drags me into a world (or kicks me out) better or faster than the style of artwork. Sticking with one style of art throughout an adventure path (or preferably throughout book dedicated to a world) would work wonders for helping DMs and players get a feel for the game and add a new dimension to their games. Right now it seems that RotR is going the way of a horror movie. Sounds like a great time to find some artists that like to draw realistic, dark characters.
Contributor
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Dr. Jacobs and Mike McArtor mentioned that "variety is good" earlier in this thread but I have to disagree. Instead of providing a mismash of different art styles to please everyone I think you could differentiate in a positive way from your competitors by presenting a consistent view of the Pathfinder world. Make the brave decision and tell us how the world feels and looks like you already tell us how it functions.
You know... There's an even more practical reason as to why we use a variety of different artists. It's because the artists we DO use are busy. Art takes time. No one artist can reasonably expect to illustrate an entire book. Much less an entire book each and every month.
We do aim for consistency in look, though. We always send references of earlier artwork to show our artists. "See. Like that." Which is the main reason to use iconics, actually.
Some artists are better at following directions than are others, though. ;)
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Creative Director
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Mike's right (and he'll probably yell at me for "working" on my vacation day). While using the same artists for all of Pathfinder would make the book look less chaotic and more like one product... we can't do that. Part of the reason is that for the first few Pathfinders, we didn't have much time at all to focus on things like that, but a bigger part is that our artists are as busy as we are OR can't commit to a six month swath of work due to conflicting jobs.
Pathfinder's still finding its look, in other words, and we'll be refining that look every time a new one comes out. HOPEfully, we'll have all (or at least most) of these kinks worked out so that we'll be able to hit the ground running with Curse of the Crimson Throne. For example, we didn't settle on the Merisiel-length-of-elf-ears as the standard till probably Pathfinder 4, so you'll be seeing a few more varying elf ear lengths until then.
That all said, some of you will invariably dislike some of the art we're going with. Best that we can do is pick art that A) we like and B) we think most of you will like.
I just glanced through the second issue in PDF form and I have absolute nothing to complain here. The interior art looks fantastic and clearly more in-line than in Pathfinder 1. The first issue looks a bit rushed compared to this.
I know how hard it is to hire talented artists. I happen to work at gaming industry too, although we make video games rather than pen&paper games, but I totally understand what you are saying.
EDIT: maybe you could consider hiring an artist or two who would concentrate only on the pathfinder stuff fulltime? Of course, the artist should be of exceptional quality...
I'm really digging the direction the artwork has taken for Pathfinder #2, it's quite exceptional.
The variety in the Pathfinder art is awesome. It's one of the things that drew me in (besides the awesome take on D&D). I like the realistic. I like cartoony. I like a mix of the two too. It's all great. So far, I've loved everything Pathfinder. So I trust in the judgement of the editors and writers. Keep doing what you do. I'm a Barnes & Noble/Borders-a-holic and I have a habit of just flipping through everything RPG in the bookstore just to look at art. Pathfinder products take the cake hands down. Now I need to find other Pathfinders in my area to play with so I can subscribe and order all this stuff.
Edit: And please, keep Wayne Reynolds around. His art rocks! Anime or not.