Petition for Tian Xia-specific adventure path


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion

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I for one vote NO, very much glad Jade Regent is over, and not wanting to wait through another Tian Xia AP ... not really looking forward to a pirate AP either, but hoping Shattered Star is worth the wait, and eventually to get an AP set in and around Rahadoum.

Dark Archive

Anti-sign.

At least for the time being. There's too much to see in other areas.

RotRL - 'normal' AP
CotCT - 'normal/urban' AP
SD - 'normal' AP
LoF - 'Arabic' AP
CoT - 'Urban/Infernal' AP
Kingmaker - 'Frontier/Kingdom' AP
S's S - 'Jungle/Ruin exploration' AP (Possibly normal?)
CC - 'Horror/Halloween' AP
JR - 'Semi-Asian' AP
S&S - 'Pirate' AP
Shattered Star - Presumably another 'normal' AP

When I say normal, I'm meaning typical medieval fantasy stuff.

The trend has recently been a lot of experimenting with different subjects or themes. Shattered Star might be seen as coming 'home' to a typical medieval fantasy adventure tied to the original AP RotRL. I'd be completely fine with another Tian AP not come around for another 8 or 9 APs. We have had tons of 'Asian' content, which is great. It IS a particular flavor though. Let's see some new stuff.


I'm afraid I'm in the NO camp.

While Tian Xia & most of Jade Regent was very well done, it just doesn't grab me. The only reason I rode out Jade Regent from a subscription standpoint was because it dealt with the overland journey to get there and I didn't want to risk screwing up having the subscription in place for Skull & Shackles' start.

And putting my personal game preferences aside, I don't think I could get my players to go for it either. The cultural learning curve of the setting is greater than they're willing to invest in. A Last Samurai-style stranger in a foreign land would be the only route I could sell. They want to adventure, have fun, and enjoy some fantasy escapism. While some players love the immersion in the setting, others aren't looking for that deep imersion in a culture's mindset, traditions, customs, etc.

I just can't see me shelling out $120 for a 100% Tian Xia AP - not because it wouldn't be done well but b/c I would have almost no chance of ever using it.


+1.


While I would love a Wuxia-style AP (more China, less Japan influence)... I would have to side with the folks who have asked for Worldwound first.

Dark Archive

I gotta join the "NO" crowd. I soldiered on through JR because I figured there'd be bits and pieces I could still pull from it for other campaigns. That and -as others have said- I didn't want to miss S&S starting. Well that and frankly I enjoy supporting the gaming company I love by sending them money.

But if there's an ENTIRE Tian Xia AP, I'd have to sign up for the 6-month break. It's just not something I'm even remotely interested in. I'd recommend saving it for a small linked series of modules instead.


+1

I would definitely support a full Tian Xia AP. Jade Regent's lack of focus was weak for me, and I had little interest in the West-East travel aspect. So much so that it's the first AP from Paizo that I entirely dumped. Either make it Tian Xia or don't - not this half and half nonsense (IMO).

A full Tian Xia AP that is properly focused would be fantastic.

Jim Groves wrote:
If you can tie that with the Land of the Linnorm Kings, so much the better.

-1

Irrisen is great, but I'd prefer such an AP remain focused there. No Linnorm Kings.


Pass for me on a full Tian AP.

IMHO, the Samurai and Ninja classes, Dragon Empires, etc should have been it's own sourcebook along the lines of Oriental Adventures of old. Do a trilogy of modules and a one shot here and there for said product too.

YMMV as usual.


I would love to see this. I think it would be hard to do if you are going to truly mimic Asian culture. Hierarchy would have to be a huge thing and would have to come up with equal parts combat and politicking.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Arnwyn wrote:
Jim Groves wrote:
If you can tie that with the Land of the Linnorm Kings, so much the better.

-1

Irrisen is great, but I'd prefer such an AP remain focused there. No Linnorm Kings.

I only said that to please the crowd. Whatever it takes to swing the polls. ;)

I want me some Baba Yaga.

I like a lot of ideas that are thrown around, but if we don't see Irrisen in 2013 (preferably after Shattered Star), than I'm sending Grandmother after Jacobs and Sutter both.

Sutter, just because. Him and his planets.

BABA YAGA INVENTED OUTER SPACE AND THE ORIENT!

Spoiler:
I'm flashing back to Adam Sandler's Waterboy when Kathy Bates was comedy gold. "Benjamin Franklin didn't invent no electricity! I invented electricity!"


There are so many folks who don't like getting 'Asian' in their gaming, that I'm guessing Jade Regent is probably the last AP we'll see on that side of the world (for several years, at least).

That said, I'm +1 for any culture-saturated gaming in Kelesh/Casmaron, Vudra, non-Osirion Garund, and the various non-Minkai Tian Xia states. I feel like cultures from these places are so far off the radar for most folks that even when we get an adventure, it's locked into the 'stranger in a strange land' trope.

The coolest approach might be a sort of 'Indian Ocean'/Silk Road tour - tying together southern Garund, Vudra/Kelesh, southern Tian Xia, and ending up in the off-the-map land of Sarusan. Good opportunity there to have some kind of undersea kingdom adventure for the ocean voyage part. Heck, even something set in *one* of those lands that at least spurred some setting articles would be appreciated.


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An Osirion Desert if Desolation-esque AP would be soooooo cool. <----- yet another Sunderstone hint.


Sunderstone wrote:
An Osirion Desert if Desolation-esque AP would be soooooo cool. <----- yet another Sunderstone hint.

I'm down big-time with that.


Mandisa wrote:
even when we get an adventure, it's locked into the 'stranger in a strange land' trope.

That would really suck if it turns out that way. That was one reason why I canceled my AP sub with Jade Regent (the wacky north pole thing being the other).

Sunderstone wrote:
An Osirion Desert if Desolation-esque AP would be soooooo cool.

I'd buy this in a second. Holy cow, that would be great.


+1 to a proper Tian Xia AP where you get to explore a lot more of the continent. So many interesting places there like the Wall of heaven, the southern jungle with that "Titan" that fell from the sky, the islands with ruins from the people of Saurusan, etc.

I will buy all the APs they will make just for monsters, NPCs, magic items, articles, etc. But with being said I have no real interest in the shattered star one. I am not that big on the whole runelords thing and they already used them. That AP slot could have been used for the White witchs, Linnorm kings, Numeria, Osirion, Planet hopping, outer plane hopping, or even an ancient greek style AP were the characters will become heroes of myth and legend. I also do not want to see another arabian knights style AP for a long time.

An AP where you can only play as non-standard races would be cool as well.


Arnwyn wrote:
Mandisa wrote:
even when we get an adventure, it's locked into the 'stranger in a strange land' trope.
That would really suck if it turns out that way. That was one reason why I canceled my AP sub with Jade Regent (the wacky north pole thing being the other).

Hmm, the articles were good though, and there were a fair number of cool NPCs to check out for future reference. I didn't really get the whole trek across the pole/Crown either, except as an elaborate setup to get Vikings vs. Ninjas. *LOL*

I did like the Inuit-themed Bestiary article from vol 3 or 4 - it was good to see a Northlands culture that wasn't Scandinavian. Might be interesting to do some research into Siberian & Ainu folktales and get a real cultural hybrid going (since trekking across the pole/Crown is the oldest/fastest way to travel, barring death-by-freezing & magic portals).

I haven't got a problem with the 'stranger/strange land' approach for things like modules or PFS scenarios, since it's assumed that you'll be running existing characters and just 'popping in' to the adventure.

But it just feels jarring in the APs, since the assumption is that you're (a) running new characters and (b) looking for a theme. If you're starting from scratch and getting into a new atmosphere, why not explore a new background culture too? One of the big draws of PnP to me is that it's inherently more open to gonzo multiculturalism than say, video games or books/movies/TV.


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thought i'd resurrect this old thread i started, it has been long enough after Jade Regent to consider a straight up start in Tian Xia Adventure Path.

1) so where in Tian Xia would you start an Adventure Path?
2) what would it need to get you excited?
3) Mythic?
4) maybe this should be the Dragon as a BBEG campaign that i, and so many others want?


Jim Groves wrote:
Arnwyn wrote:
Jim Groves wrote:
If you can tie that with the Land of the Linnorm Kings, so much the better.

-1

Irrisen is great, but I'd prefer such an AP remain focused there. No Linnorm Kings.

I only said that to please the crowd. Whatever it takes to swing the polls. ;)

I want me some Baba Yaga.

I like a lot of ideas that are thrown around, but if we don't see Irrisen in 2013 (preferably after Shattered Star), than I'm sending Grandmother after Jacobs and Sutter both.

Sutter, just because. Him and his planets.

BABA YAGA INVENTED OUTER SPACE AND THE ORIENT!

** spoiler omitted **

hey jim i was going thru the thread and noticed this little gem:)

my question is: what was your reaction when they called you up and said "so we're doing an AP literally ALL about Baba Yaga, you want to knock out a chapter?"

its gotta feel better then winning the lottery:)

Silver Crusade

I'd like to see something Kaiju related, but it seems that my required mythic rules, and a combination of Tian Xia with Mythic might be a hard sell to some people.


I'd like an AP in Tian Xia. It would be nice to see a little more support for some of the races unique to the continent.

Really don't care about kaiju though :/

Liberty's Edge

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I think it's been long enough without any Tian Xia support that a return would be great. Of course, I've been cheering on the idea of a wuxia-themed AP, which I feel would be well received. Kung-fu movies and wuxia films and comics are popular enough that seeing an AP on the themes doesn't seem like a bad move sales wide.

Right now we have grown a little stale on the 'normal' themes and remaining away from them for a little while doesn't strike me as a bad idea. We have our Worldwound AP (which is awesome by the way) and up next we have our Egypt-themed AP (also much needed culturally themed material) and a sci-fi/fantasy mashup (which people have been clamoring for and really scrathes the itch for that type of thing).

I'm sure they will want to bring the AP line back toward the traditional after Iron Gods but I am very much in favor of wuxai as it is sadly lacking in gaming right now.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I vote against. After Baba Yaga/Alien Worlds/20th Century, Abyss/Mythic, Egypt, and Technofantasy all in a row, while I don't mind those paths, I'd like to see something a bit more traditional once in a while.

(Wrath of the Righteous almost qualifies, but the use of the Mythic Rules shuts it out. Far too much over the top.)

Jade Regent was exactly the right way to bring Tian-Xia in in my eyes. I'm playing in it and I like it. A full-on Tian-Xia path, however, holds no interest for me at all. It's simply not a setting I'd want to play a character from, or GM in.


i'm not asking people if they do or don't want a Tian Xia AP, i'm asking that if the do to sign up!
if you don't want it, don't sign, simple as that. if you want to start a thread about what APs you DONT want go ahead:)


Well, that's kind of useless then. Isn't it more useful to see what people would like in a Tian Xia adventure or why they wouldn't want one than just have a bunch of random posts that say *sign*?


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Mechalibur wrote:
Well, that's kind of useless then. Isn't it more useful to see what people would like in a Tian Xia adventure or why they wouldn't want one than just have a bunch of random posts that say *sign*?

He did ask that (see about 7 posts up).

In any case, count me in as wanting a Tian-Xia AP, or at the very least, a new Tian-Xia module.

I think doing something with the Shory city of Yjae would be cool, and might be a good way to tie anything Tian-Xia in with the Inner Sea region, if it is deemed critical to do so.

Similarly, if there is ever an AP done with Taldor, they could possibly tie it in with Amanandar somehow (or maybe start in Amanandar, and work their way over to Taldor; sort of a reverse Jade Regent).

My favorite parts of Tian-Xia are the Darklands (I'd still love to see a Darklands AP, period, but I like the fact that Tian-Xia's are so different, and really sort of uncharted territory), Minata, Nagajor, and the Valashmai Jungle. I'm not entirely sure offhand what sorts of adventures would be really good for those locations, though, at least not for an entire AP.

Some areas that might be ripe for T-X APs, though:

Tianjing: A nation with the qlippoth hordes battering away at the doors to the Material Plane while its former defenders are busy trying to clean up the mess left behind by foolish and ignorant mortals is just ripe for an epic AP.

Wanshou: Its kraken overlord is definitely up to something, and making a tremendous menace of itself to all of its neighbors. This has the makings of a great AP- and one that might do what no AP has yet done, which is travel underwater, to beleaguered Xidao (which might be worked in as holding a key to Zhanagorr's defeat).

Given their proximity, Tianjing and Wanshou might be connected together in the same AP; perhaps Zhanagoor is working with/using/being used by the Qlippoth?


Well if you are going to do a new Dragon Empires thing... I would sign up for something in Xa Hoi. They should probably set adventures on the continent and see how sales go. I would love to see them open it up but you never know.


takes the dust covers off the furniture, checks the fuses, and chases off the feral smurfs

Okily dokely, I think enough time has passed since Jade Regent to bring this back, also with a whole new group on the boards, it's always good to get a fresh opinion. :-)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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captain yesterday wrote:
Okily dokely, I think enough time has passed since Jade Regent to bring this back, also with a whole new group on the boards, it's always good to get a fresh opinion. :-)

There are so many interesting stories that Paizo set up when they created the Dragon Empires and there are so many strange and interesting creatures that don't get much used outside of an Asian setting.

But, Mr. Jacobs has said multiple times that the Tien Xia stuff didn't do so well commercially. And, for good or ill, Paizo is a business.

Shadow Lodge

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Bought the entirety of Jade Regent, would buy a full fully-T-X AP. Just in case anyone cares.


Put me squarely in the "would not purchase" pile. I had my fill of Oriental adventures back in 1985.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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Molten Dragon wrote:
Put me squarely in the "would not purchase" pile. I had my fill of Oriental adventures back in 1985.

But that is actually why a Paizo "Asian" AP would be helpful. Both TSR's "Oriental Adventures" and AEG's "Legend of the Five Rings" were flawed attempts.

I think you might feel better about a "Tien Xia" AP, if it was done to Paizo's standard.

Liberty's Edge

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Molten Dragon wrote:
Put me squarely in the "would not purchase" pile. I had my fill of Oriental adventures back in 1985.

I was going to object that it couldn't have been that long ago...

...but I made the mistake of pulling 'Oriental Adventures' off my bookshelf and checking the copyright date. Good memory.

That said... yeah, Jade Regent and the Dragon Empires guide were definitely vast improvements on previous 'Eastern' settings.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I´m decidedly for a lot more TianXia adventures and an exclusive TianXia AP.

I also cannot understand why some people who played Jade Regent say no TianXia. Jade Regent wasn´t really about TianXia and the TianXia part was the best part of it actually. JR was about a caravan travelling around with experimental rules and bonding with NPC´s while doing so. More like an expedition thing. A whole AP settled in TianXia would provide a way better experience.

Also because some people already played something 20+ years ago from other companies - what perhaps wasn´t that good or not - should not influence this decision for several reasons:
-there´s more than enough younger and new players who have no clue of that old moldy stuff.
-the old guard doesn´t get to decide everything. Go back play 1E and stop moaning around here.
-Paizo has the best potential to do a way better job than anything that was there before.

Dragon Empires stuff is said not to have sold that good. While i personaly like it, i think this could be done better. Same is true for samurai and ninja. Not that i think they are bad classes, but especially the samurai could use some polish, the only archetype being a bit wonky. Perhaps with a new AP there could be some new material.
The game already has a lot of shiny new options by now though what makes playing in TianXia a lot more interesting. Especially Occult Adventures has a lot of potential there. There´s also lots of interesting races like Kitsune, Tengu, Nagaji, Wayang, Hobgoblins and Imperial Dragons as well Kraken and Naga to be explored.
Along with the already provided political background, the splittered old empire and geography TianXia surely makes for the most interesting background out of the Inner Sea.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hayato Ken wrote:


-there´s more than enough younger and new players who have no clue of that old moldy stuff.
-the old guard doesn´t get to decide everything. Go back play 1E and stop moaning around here.

Friendly tip: if you want to gather popular support for your cause, never ever build it by firing shots at the hardcore of fanbase.


Very true, it'll take a group effort to make it happen.

I will say, times have changed since first edition, and even third edition, so I'm completely confident Paizo won't fall into the same holes. :-)

And, I'm patient, I can wait for it, no hurry here. :-)

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Personally I think one of the flaws with Jade Regent was that it tried to bridge the gap between western fantasy and Asian fantasy - it had too many Asian elements for those players that dislike those things, and not enough for those players that really enjoy them.

Personally I don't want to play a "fish out of water" - if I want an Asian fantasy themed game I want to be immersed in it.

Also, it seems that one of the design guidelines for APs is that you can play whatever character background you like, so any purported Tian Xia AP would still have to support an entire party of Varisians or Chelaxians. So whatever they made would fall short for those of us that want Asian themes in an Asian setting. 3PP might be the better way to go for that, honestly.

Having said all that I'd love to be wrong. I'd be all about a full Tian Xia AP.

Shadow Lodge

ryric wrote:
Also, it seems that one of the design guidelines for APs is that you can play whatever character background you like, so any purported Tian Xia AP would still have to support an entire party of Varisians or Chelaxians.

Paizo talks out of both sides of its mouth on this. On the one hand, every time a new AP comes out, James Jacobs goes around its subforum explaining why various character concepts wouldn't be a good idea. On the other, the APs must cater to GMs who know their players will want to play super-special snowflakes and not buy into the conceit of the AP, or they won't sell. You know the type: the players who must play a Paladin in Skull and Shackles, or a Hellknight in Hell's Rebels, or a drider in Second Darkness. Irk me to no end.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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ryric wrote:
Personally I don't want to play a "fish out of water" - if I want an Asian fantasy themed game I want to be immersed in it.

Actually, a "western traveler" could be a perfectly valid campaign trait for a Tien Xia AP. :)

zimmerwald1915 wrote:
ryric wrote:
Also, it seems that one of the design guidelines for APs is that you can play whatever character background you like, so any purported Tian Xia AP would still have to support an entire party of Varisians or Chelaxians.
Paizo talks out of both sides of its mouth on this. On the one hand, every time a new AP comes out, James Jacobs goes around its subforum explaining why various character concepts wouldn't be a good idea. On the other, the APs must cater to GMs who know their players will want to play super-special snowflakes and not buy into the conceit of the AP, or they won't sell. You know the type: the players who must play a Paladin in Skull and Shackles, or a Hellknight in Hell's Rebels, or a drider in Second Darkness. Irk me to no end.

That player also likely irks the rest of their party. (Though there is a work-around in Hell's Rebels, The Order of the Torrent.)

That still can be mitigated with my suggestion above.

Sovereign Court

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Some of the best recent backstories/flavour (see: the iconic Kineticist from Minkai) has been set in Tian-Xia.

In other words: you have my axe!

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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"Necro-ing" an older captain yesterday post.

captain yesterday wrote:

thought i'd resurrect this old thread i started, it has been long enough after Jade Regent to consider a straight up start in Tian Xia Adventure Path.

1) so where in Tian Xia would you start an Adventure Path?

Goka. That would simplify the integration of a player who insists on playing a westerner. (see zimmerwald1915's complaint above) The campaign should move inland from there.

This would also allow Hobgoblins to be properly used as the lower level foes in the early books of the AP.

captain yesterday wrote:
2) what would it need to get you excited?

Draw inspiration from Hong Kong's cinema. This would also help mitigate some of the possible complaints about not being respectful of Asian culture.

captain yesterday wrote:
3) Mythic?

Sadly, the Mythic rules are not so good. The Mythic rules would, however, help simulate some of the more fantastic Qinggong elements though.

captain yesterday wrote:
4) maybe this should be the Dragon as a BBEG campaign that i, and so many others want?

Dragons are usually "good guys" in Asian lore. While they should have a prominent role in an Asian AP, I would look elsewhere for a villain.


All very good points Lord Fyre, thanks!


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And yes, Occult Adventures is a much better fit them Mythic Adventures.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

captain yesterday wrote:
And yes, Occult Adventures is a much better fit then Mythic Adventures.

Agreed. That an Asian AP would provide an opportunity to showcase both Occult Adventurers and "the new hotness" is another selling point.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:


-there´s more than enough younger and new players who have no clue of that old moldy stuff.
-the old guard doesn´t get to decide everything. Go back play 1E and stop moaning around here.
Friendly tip: if you want to gather popular support for your cause, never ever build it by firing shots at the hardcore of fanbase.

Yup, traps of the internet lingo. Probably should have added a smilie or something, so it sounds more like i mean it.

I somehow doubt that this is the only hardcore fanbase though. Of course i can only judge from the data at my hands. Some of them are constantly very loud here though and very "alpha". Many of them clamored against samurai, ninja, asian weapons and armor, and every new book since then.
Worst was the Numeria book and AP, yet those apparantly were bestsellers.
I have to say i´m also very tired about the negative attitude of "i don´t want that in my game and if you do that i throw a fit". There´s a lot of stuff i don´t really dig either, but i see no need to say don´t do it. I rather want to say "please do it in a good and inclusive way!", so it meshes well with the rest and makes people happy.

@Occult Adventures:
I would love to see new stuff in the AP´s and modules! One reason for the felt power creep is that most often players are up to date with the newest stuff, but villains and monsters arent.
PFS season 6 did a nice job there in a lot of scenarios, raising the challenge bar a bit and making for interesting encounters.
Unfortunately this season is also a sad example of some people throwing a very loud fit and destroying some very cool and flavorfull storylines like the Numeria inclusion.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I want to add, Tian Xia also offers countless possibilities for the inclusion of all possible sexual orientations and representations.

Takarazuka (japanese theatre where only women play and some are raised as men), chinese opera (where men play women and are raised like that) just to name two, which surely provide good plothooks and backstories.

There´s people beyond the white fringes of the Inner Sea waiting for representation!

Liberty's Edge

Hayato Ken wrote:


There´s people beyond the white fringes of the Inner Sea waiting for representation!

We could also get some interesting examinations of the Chinese eunuch traditions. Is there anything less explored than that? Or vilified in fantasy fiction?


Stuff like eunuchs and footbinding might also be on the "nah, nope, never really a thing in this world" list.

(Or horrible alternative - those are policies (and other equivalent, pretty terrible things) that were recently adopted in Chu Ye and imposed upon the mortal populace by that nation's oni lords.)


They have a trait in the Dragon Empires companion where you can be a Eunuch.

Liberty's Edge

captain yesterday wrote:
They have a trait in the Dragon Empires companion where you can be a Eunuch.

Wow I added Eunuch for a laugh, I didn't know they already had a trait for it! OUCH!

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

J-Bone wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
They have a trait in the Dragon Empires companion where you can be a Eunuch.
Wow I added Eunuch for a laugh, I didn't know they already had a trait for it! OUCH!

Now lets "cut this off" and get back to advocating an Asian AP. :)

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