I kinda like all of the deities, except maybe Irori who doesn't really scratch any of my itches, but my favourites would be Milani (whom I like so much I had to write a Wayfinder-article about her), Shelyn, and Desna. Asmodeus and Abadar are pretty cool in their respective roles, too.
Cayden Cailean will always be my favorite deity in the pantheon simply because he has the greatest backstory I've ever read in all of fantasy.
A god who achieved divinity by accident because he got drunk....and he was so drunk at the time he can't even remember HOW he did it.
It doesn't get better than that.
a dominant male leader anywhere on the good side of the pantheon.
How about Erastil ? He´s totally patriachial, has a beard, a chauvinistic Odin-type. He´s just old-fashioned and yes, rural, but you have one.
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Cayden Cailean will always be my favorite deity in the pantheon simply because he has the greatest backstory I've ever read in all of fantasy.
A god who achieved divinity by accident because he got drunk....and he was so drunk at the time he can't even remember HOW he did it.
It doesn't get better than that.
Honestly, I've always found that pretty lame. It was funny <stupid-funny> when I first found out.
Odin, Anubi, Shaundakul, Tempus, Hoar, Torm, Moradin, Talos, Ade, Ares.
Can I love a deity but hate its followers? Cayden is a cool god, but I've never seen a Cayden worshiper not played like a womanizing barfly. It turns me off of having my PCs worshiping him.
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Can I love a deity but hate its followers? Cayden is a cool god, but I've never seen a Cayden worshiper not played like a womanizing barfly. It turns me off of having my PCs worshiping him.
Cayden is the god of alcohol, so it kinda fits. But he's also the god of freedom fighters, so you could make a character who focuses on that side of his personality and worship.
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Can I love a deity but hate its followers?
I feel the same way about Urgathoa. She's all 'girls just wanna have fun' and comes off as utterly perplexed as to why the mean girl's clique of Pharasma and Sarenrae consider her their mortal enemy, when she's got nothing against them.
Meanwhile her worshippers are all;
1) spread plague / animate people's grandmas for no apparent reason or benefit
2) ???
3) profit!
Only replace 'profit!' with 'get killed for being idiots...'
FR Deities?
I prefer Selune, Lleira, and Sharess.
I've had quite a few characters who have made careers out of fighting Shar's servants.
I did love the shar/selune thing
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Can I love a deity but hate its followers? Cayden is a cool god, but I've never seen a Cayden worshiper not played like a womanizing barfly. It turns me off of having my PCs worshiping him.Cayden is the god of alcohol, so it kinda fits. But he's also the god of freedom fighters, so you could make a character who focuses on that side of his personality and worship.
Milani is a better choice for freedom fighters than Cayden.
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Milani is a better choice for freedom fighters than Cayden.Can I love a deity but hate its followers? Cayden is a cool god, but I've never seen a Cayden worshiper not played like a womanizing barfly. It turns me off of having my PCs worshiping him.Cayden is the god of alcohol, so it kinda fits. But he's also the god of freedom fighters, so you could make a character who focuses on that side of his personality and worship.
I think both have a place in the freedom fighting thing, but Cayden is free like Jimmy Buffet i.e. living it and fighting tyranny when you come across it, but still being unafraid of authority.
Milani seems to take more of a cue from the White Rose Society, a group of students who tried to organise against Hitler, which is more serious. I suspect Milani the goddess might be based on Sophie Scholl; a member of that society.
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Milani is a better choice for freedom fighters than Cayden.
Milani has that whole martyr-y blood-soaked cobblestones 'I'm gonna get the entire party / the entire town / everyone who follows me totally killed making a futile gesture against authority' thing going on, which can be a bit of a turn off, compared to Cayden's more 'let's all survive this and hit the bar and get totally wasted afterwards' theme.
I get that Milani is the most popular 'lesser' diety on Golarion, but even Iomedae, patron of chivalry and honor and paladins, doesn't have 'glorious suicide' stamped all over her like that.
Desna (particularly in the shadow of Nidal), Calistria (in Cheliax, where elves are second-class citizens), Cayden, that token Halfling god who'se name I can't remember, even Gorum, have great potential for freedom fighters, as do less obvious choices like Shelyn or Sarenrae or Iomedae or Torag.
Heck, in Rahadoum, underground sects devoted to *Norgorber* are a delightfully non-standard breeding ground for freedom fighters.
Desna, Cayden Cailean, Iomedae, and Sarenrae.
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Milani has that whole martyr-y blood-soaked cobblestones 'I'm gonna get the entire party / the entire town / everyone who follows me totally killed making a futile gesture against authority' thing going on, which can be a bit of a turn off, compared to Cayden's more 'let's all survive this and hit the bar and get totally wasted afterwards' theme.I get that Milani is the most popular 'lesser' diety on Golarion, but even Iomedae, patron of chivalry and honor and paladins, doesn't have 'glorious suicide' stamped all over her like that.
Desna (particularly in the shadow of Nidal), Calistria (in Cheliax, where elves are second-class citizens), Cayden, that token Halfling god who'se name I can't remember, even Gorum, have great potential for freedom fighters, as do less obvious choices like Shelyn or Sarenrae or Iomedae or Torag.
Heck, in Rahadoum, underground sects devoted to *Norgorber* are a delightfully non-standard breeding ground for freedom fighters.
I think all of the other gods you mention above (plus Milani-- that's still my choice over the Drunk one) are better choices for Freedom Fighters than Cayden-- he's too much the "Get drunk and party!" God to take seriously as one whose worshipers can form the center of a fight for liberty and justice for all. That's my opinion anyway.
Arise, dead thread...
I have to say, having played some skull and shackles, Besmara is proving loads of fun. She may yet end up being my favorite CN deity.
After reading the whole thread some things come into my mind
Iomedae makes me laugh a bit. She starts her divine career as a replacement for another gods herald that got killed off, and then when her patron god bites it too, she has to step up and fill even bigger shoes.
Maybe that was her plan from the beginning? Maybe she is the god of Deception and is a evil goddess?
The whole crusade stuff is just a bait for all the good guys to get killed in a never ending war!!!Like I said I read the whole thread so some things made me chuckle
I get that Milani is the most popular 'lesser' diety on Golarion, but even Iomedae, patron of chivalry and honor and paladins, doesn't have 'glorious suicide' stamped all over her like that.
in combination with this
Milani - hello, patron deity of Poland
But back to serious business
-Cayden Cailean for getting drunk and becoming a god, and making a prostitue a herald, and having a stein as a holy symbol.In my current group there is an oracle of CC with the haunted curse. "Why iz ze staaain movin?? *hicks*" great fun to GM
-Pharasma for having the best tailer
-Asmodeus because wiothout him there would be no martial plane, and Rovagug would be stil out there, and ...wait...why is he evil again?
Sarenrae, hands down. I like the idea of Calistria, Desna and Shelyn, but if I lived in Golarion, I would be a Sarenrae worshiper.
I'm not sure if the Empyreal Lords count or not, but I am kind of smitten with Ragathiel. His parents are awesome, he whoops tush all day every day, and he is the perfect patron for a group of paladins modeled on the space marines of 40k..."blessed is the mind too small for doubt" and all that :-)
Abadar all the way. I mean, c'mon, he has a holiday called Taxfest! How is that not blowing your minds with awesomeness? I love the idea of his Paladins setting up bounty boards to motivate the less scrupulous to help capture wanted criminals. Also a fan of Asmodeus, Urgathoa, Norgorber, Pharasma, and Desna.
Golarion's deities in general are one of my favorite parts of the setting. A hardcover collection of the AP's deity articles would be an instant favorite.
Shelyn and Milani.^^
At the third place i would put Cayden Caylean... He's not the god a would chose for my average character... But his story is awesome.
Nethys and Irori would be both at second place. I'm a huge fan of self-made gods.
But the first place goes to... Razmir! (he is an Avistanian god, maybe not literally a god but still one, wether people like it or not).
Pharasma is probably my favorite...It's nice to see a neutral Death Goddess that isn't all about destroying life
I like Desna as well, although I think I like her more for the fan theories on her being a reformed Dark Tapestry entity than what is in cannon.
I also am fond of Erastil, for his "you damn kids get off my yard" personality (or at least that is how I envision his personality....
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Ah go on I'll bite.
Brigh, the Whisper in the Bronze
I am contractually obliged to like Nethys
I have a soft spot for good old Sarenrae
Qi Zhong is a pretty decent chap (also wizards).
Tyr.
He got the shaft when 4th ed. came out but I'm an old 2nd ed guy anyway so that didn't matter much to me. I had a Batman style Paladin dedicated to him back in the day.
These days as a part time DM I like what my PC's approach to being a cleric of Besmara has been so far. I like Gorum myself.
The Eldest if they count
I really miss St. Cuthbert when I'm playing on Golarion. One of my all time favorite characters was a hardcore St. Cuthbert zealot. Even, with all of the expanded pantheon none of the Golarion gods really have that same "Smackdown the lawbreakers" vibe of Cuthbert.
From the Pathfinder pantheon most of my character worship Cayden, Nethys, or Iomadae.
His cudgel's still in Artifacts and Legends, at least.
I really like Cayden. I'm trying to think of a good concept for a devotee, but haven't settled on anything. My magus will worship him, but only because she likes to drink, and is trying to make up for her past with goodness.
Of the major deities my favourites are: Desna, Calistria, Pharasma, Asmodeus.
That said, I find that i can play many worshippers of Cayden, it's just such an easy comfortable fit.
Not the deity herself, but I the Low Templars make me happy Iomedae is about. I wouldn't want to straight up play a goody-goody worshipper of hers.
I'm going to have to buy the pdfs for all three, so I I can 'campaign-ize' them. I don't run god creation the same way, a little spat I had with Greenwood back in the day, but really like the fullness of the pantheon. I run alternate bodies of worshipers (emphasis on differing domains) and nearly every god already has an index card with at least one band of heretics for material. And reading the Runelords has me looking at ways to PF my old 'Sinister Seven Lords of the Deadly Sins'.
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Well, if I lived in Golarion, I would probably be a follower of Shelyn. I mean, come on, what's more important than love and beauty? Iomedae may defend the innocent and Sarenrae might heal the ailing, but Shelyn makes life worth living.
Desna is probably my second favorite, mostly because she has a similar focus on living life to the fullest.
I have to give credit where credit is due, though; the followers of Abadar seem to do a whole lot of good for a whole lot of people, despite not actually being "good", per-se. The concepts he patronizes may not be as inspiring or high-minded as those of the good deities, but there's a lot to be said for economic growth and social stability, or even just for having trustworthy judges and bankers around.
I also have a strange, sick sort of attraction to Lamashtu. She just pushes certain buttons of mine that I... probably shouldn't have. :P
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I have to give credit where credit is due, though; the followers of Abadar seem to do a whole lot of good for a whole lot of people, despite not actually being "good", per-se.
That is true, even if not explicitly 'good,' Abadar's focus on social stability and fairness mirrors that of Erastil, on a much larger scale.
[tangent]
It is interesting that Golarion's two primary Lawful Neutral gods, Irori and Abadar, seem to 'lean good,' while Golarion's two primary Chaotic Neutral gods, Calistria and Gorum, often seem to 'lean evil.'
There's not much of a 'playful trickster' CN (leans good) presence, or a strict disciplinarian 'spare the rod, spoil the child' St. Cuthbert-y 'cudgel them until they convert!' LN (leans evil) presence in Golarion.
LN seems quite often to be code for 'mostly good' and CN (particularly with folk like Besmara, Groetus, Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth among them) 'mostly evil.'
That might simply be a side effect of people generally being more comfortable with liberty and freedom as ideals, and security, top-down heirarchy and rule of law as their reality, making chaos seem dangerous/evil and law seem safe/good.
[/tangent]
Including minor deities, I can't believe I forgot to mention ACHAEKEK! Something about the mantis god of blood just seems like a fun character concept. I recently made an inquisitor of Achaekek and I'm quite enjoying playing a lawful "neutral" ("not evil") melee character for a change (usually play more chaotic ranged/caster/rogues)
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It is interesting that Golarion's two primary Lawful Neutral gods, Irori and Abadar, seem to 'lean good,' while Golarion's two primary Chaotic Neutral gods, Calistria and Gorum, often seem to 'lean evil.'
Hmm... not sure I agree with you on that one. While I think it's fair to say that Abadar seems sort of borderline good, I never really got the same impression about Irori. The Master of Masters seems pretty monomaniacally focused on the individual pursuit of perfection, for good or ill; he doesn't really seem to show much interest at all in what becomes of society or the majority of sentient beings. I'd say he's about as neutral as they come.
Calistria is associated with sexual relations and revenge, which are both emotional and irrational behaviors, but I wouldn't say there's anything inherently *evil* about them. If a given worshiper chooses to sexually abuse others or take disproportionate revenge for petty slights, she's no more responsible for that than she is for a follower who takes it upon themselves to be a giving and selfless lover and to avenge wrongs committed against the helpless. Again, seems like a textbook example of a neutral deity.
Gorum might lean more toward evil than Calistria, considering that he's literally all about violence, but one could argue that he lends strength to those who fight to defend the innocent just as much as he aids those who would victimize them. The fact that many of his followers are orcs does tend to skew one's impression of his religion, though.
Something about Golarion's pantheon just seems really... Off. I don't really like any of them. I never had this issue with the Greyhawk or Faerun pantheons. I can't quite figure out just what it is that I don't like though.
Sarenrae, hands down. I like the idea of Calistria, Desna and Shelyn, but if I lived in Golarion, I would be a Sarenrae worshiper.
I do like Sarenrae a lot, if I had to choose from the Golarion pantheon, it would probably be Sarenrae as well. That may be a bit because she is one of the few who we get to see a cleric of a whole lot (Kyra is one of the iconics, after all) And she's awesome in the comics, but Sarenrae does a great job of not going down the Lawful Stupid road.
Plus, scimitars are just plain awesome!
Other than that? Achaekek is pretty darn cool, Desna has some pretty rocking domains for a cleric, Nalinivati and Daikitsu get credit for having some pretty awesome holy symbols. A lotus flower in which a snake lies coiled and a nine tailed fox on a chrysanthemum background? Too cool.
Also, gotta give some love to Chaldira Zuzaristan. You get to be besties with Desna, and she has the best trait in the game bar none attached to her.
Wait, I hadn't posted on this thread before? Madness!!
I usually have a have a hard time picking favourites, but here goes. (Bolded are the absolute favourites)
Golarion: Abadar, Desna, Milani, Sarenrae, Urgathoa and Zon-Kuthon.
Greyhawk: Celestian, Joramy, Kord, Pelor, Saint Cuthbert and Wee Jas.
Forgotten Realms: Bane, Chauntea, Deneir, Ibrandul, Laduguer and Selûne.
Eberron: Aureon, Blood of Vol*, Dol Arrah, The Keeper, The Shadow and The Traveler.
* = Not a deity, but still a favourite religion.
And I really hope I have the courage to some day show my own pantheon for my own campaign setting. I just feel it's hard to make awesome deities when so many great creations already exist.
Erastil, Torag and Cayden Cailan for me.
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Sarenrae was a big hit with me from the start with her focus on redemption. In my head, she feels like the most likely candidate for a Big Good for the setting, even if her congregation has some serious warts.
Desna won me over pretty hard too, for a lot of reasons. She's probably the most relatable of all of the Big 20 gods. But she's also an alien bug from beyond space.
I'm totally in love with Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon, both on an individual basis but especially when taken together. When these two are played off of each other for all they're worth, magic happens. All of the history and how their relationship trickles down to their faithful just makes for some stories with great dramatic potential.
I have to admit, Golarion's take on Asmodeus is probably my favorite version of the character too. Far more personable. And far more insidious because of it.
We still don't know a lot about him, but I really like Tsukiyo. A Lawful Good god of darkness, spirits, and madness?! YES. I really want to know more about this guy, though I have to admit the moment I realized he was almost a Japanese take on Osiris I was completely won over.
Achaekek stands out too. The fact that he's a deific hitman and the questions of just why many of the gods feel they need him just beg to be played with.
Lissala too. She's...frustratingly hard to get a complete handle on, and that's part of what makes her so interesting. Look at how all over the place expectations of her alignment were on these very boards for example. There's something about this one that makes it feel natural to play her as "more L than E/Evil With Standards". (and holy crap her herald was one of the most depressing pieces of work to show up in a bestiary yet, even more than the Prince In Chains)
[tangent]
It is interesting that Golarion's two primary Lawful Neutral gods, Irori and Abadar, seem to 'lean good,' while Golarion's two primary Chaotic Neutral gods, Calistria and Gorum, often seem to 'lean evil.'There's not much of a 'playful trickster' CN (leans good) presence, or a strict disciplinarian 'spare the rod, spoil the child' St. Cuthbert-y 'cudgel them until they convert!' LN (leans evil) presence in Golarion.
LN seems quite often to be code for 'mostly good' and CN (particularly with folk like Besmara, Groetus, Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth among them) 'mostly evil.'
That might simply be a side effect of people generally being more comfortable with liberty and freedom as ideals, and security, top-down heirarchy and rule of law as their reality, making chaos seem dangerous/evil and law seem safe/good.
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I think that is a interesting thought and not to disagree with you completely but to add to it. I also it generally how people often play LN and CN characters also adds to this veiw.
People tend to go for CN to play a complete jerk and evil character. Also because they feel it justfieds all of there actions. And most GMs can't really argue with it...so the GM can't even 'control' through alignment.
On the other hand people who play LN are nice and predicable and a GM usualy feels more grounded in calling a action as not being Lawful.
Desna won me over pretty hard too, for a lot of reasons. She's probably the most relatable of all of the Big 20 gods. But she's also an alien bug from beyond space.
Agreed. I was primed to hate Desna, but the addition of her being this not quite understood thing from somewhere makes it much more interesting than just benevolent goddess here to do good things. Being a bug from beyond time and space is pretty cool..
I wonder where the oracle Mysteries like Outer Rifts and Dark Tapestry come from. Hrrrmm......
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I already liked Desna, as a generic good goddess worshipped by the setting's Romani analogues, particularly with her non-outer-planar nature (something she shares with few other d20 deities, including that rascal Iuz), but the notion that she's a prehuman deity (like the Forgotten Realm's Jergal, and perhaps Aerdrie Faenya), just cranks it up to 11. Her being one of the top elven gods, as well (along with Calistria, Nethys and the elf-specific 'lesser gods') is great, because she feels a little more traditionally 'elfy' than Calistria, for those coming in from the Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk or whatever.
The only thing I *don't* like about Desna is the starknife, which I'd probably like a lot more if it wasn't illustrated the way it is, as a somewhat impractical looking thing. :)
Starknives are actually practical weapons, just not easy to use. Like a flail. A flail is wonderful weapon, but if you think to just swing it, those metal heads are going to do a number on your spine...directly...
But on topic, my favorite is Caydean, the dude is awesome, and his creed is great.
Besides those fire gods (I like fire) my favorite is torag. He's a dwarf god, he is cool, he has one of the strongest religion traits for his followers (defensive strategist) and he has the artifice domain, meaning you can be a forgemaster and worship him.