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So I've been playing around with the Diabolist Prestige class for my PFS Wizard. and am curious if this is possible.
Currently: Level 10 Wizard (Necromancer)
Next level: Diabolist 1/Wizard 10
Book of the Damned 1:
This is the diabolist's class level plus her highest caster level. This does not stack with class levels that grant an animal companion.
Boon Companion:
Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class ability.
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level*. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.
Special: You may select this feat more than once. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different animal companion or familiar.
Now I applied Boon Companion to the Diabolist class before I really read the feat, and according to Hero Lab at least, it worked. Since Hero Lab isn't exactly definitive and is wrong on a number of things, I thought I'd check here first.
tldr; Does Boon Companion up the level of the Imp Animal Companion granted by the Diabolist PrC?
Whether or not Boon Companion applies at all is a grey area (similar to an AC, uses AC progression rules, but not technically an AC), I'm inclined to say yes.
As for the effect of the feat...
Editor's Note
This feat has some unclear wording. While it has not been updated in an official errata release nor has it been added to the online FAQ a Paizo developer blessed the following wording change:"Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit."
So, Boon Companion would be legal but, barring weird combinations, do nothing.
Why would you need that feat? The effective druid level would already be your character level.(Wizard level + Diabolist level) All if could do is put your familiar 1 level higher with an effective wizard level of 11.
That seems reasonable, but it's double reading fail. The PrC as written would make it lvl 16*, the feat as written would make it level 20.
*(Unless the PrC advances spells/day but not CL, which would be weird)
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Thanks for that Rasmus. That would leave me to believe that it would work, since the abilities of the animal companion would not exceed my character level.
Shar Tahl - I was talking about applying the Boon Companion feat to the Imp Animal Companion from the Diabolist, not the Imp Familiar from the Wizard class.
As the Animal Companion counts as one in a weird way, I wasn't sure about the wording on Boon Companion; the bit about character level threw me off.
In my mind how it works:
Without Boon Companion
Wizard 10/Diabolist 1 (Character level 11, Familiar level 10, Animal Companion level 1)
With Boon Companion:
Wizard 10/Diabolist 1 (Character level 11, Familiar level 10, Animal Companion level 5)
Thanks for that Rasmus. That would leave me to believe that it would work, since the abilities of the animal companion would not exceed my character level.
Shat Tahl - I was talking about applying the Boon Companion feat to the Imp Animal Companion from the Diabolist, not the Imp Familiar from the Wizard class.
As the Animal Companion counts as one in a weird way, I wasn't sure about the wording on Boon Companion; the bit about character level threw me off.
In my mind how it works:
Without Boon Companion
Wizard 10/Diabolist 1 (Character level 11, Familiar level 10, Animal Companion level 1)
With Boon Companion:
Wizard 10/Diabolist 1 (Character level 11, Familiar level 10, Animal Companion level 5)
I my opinion you are cheating yourself here.
As I read the rules for the Imp Companion it is calculated as an animal companion of your Diabolist + Wizard level (since it is your highest caster level).
As such the Companion should have statistics as a lvl 11 druid. Due to which you have no need of boon companion.
While it is poorly written, and very well can be interpreted as the imp companion having a higher level than yourself, i believe that to be a mistake. The most reasonable interpretation would simply be to have the companion be calculated based on your caster level.
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Thanks for that Rasmus. That would leave me to believe that it would work, since the abilities of the animal companion would not exceed my character level.
Shat Tahl - I was talking about applying the Boon Companion feat to the Imp Animal Companion from the Diabolist, not the Imp Familiar from the Wizard class.
As the Animal Companion counts as one in a weird way, I wasn't sure about the wording on Boon Companion; the bit about character level threw me off.
In my mind how it works:
Without Boon Companion
Wizard 10/Diabolist 1 (Character level 11, Familiar level 10, Animal Companion level 1)
With Boon Companion:
Wizard 10/Diabolist 1 (Character level 11, Familiar level 10, Animal Companion level 5)
I my opinion you are cheating yourself here.
As I read the rules for the Imp Companion it is calculated as an animal companion of your Diabolist + Wizard level (since it is your highest caster level).
As such the Companion should have statistics as a lvl 11 druid. Due to which you have no need of boon companion.While it is poorly written, and very well can be interpreted as the imp companion having a higher level than yourself, i believe that to be a mistake. The most reasonable interpretation would simply be to have the companion be calculated based on your caster level.
I see your point, but I forgot to point out the line that sparked my question to begin with:
A diabolist forms a close bond with a particular imp, similar to a druid's bond with an animal companion. The imp is loyal to the diabolist (though ultimately loyal to Hell). The imp companion's abilities, feats, Hit Dice, and skills advance as the diabolist advances in level (see sidebar). If the imp is slain or the diabolist release it from her service, she may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring a 24-hour ritual to conjure and bind the new imp to herself.
Emphasis mine.
It pretty much directly contradicts the later statement unless I'm reading it wrong. As far as I can tell though, the HD/stuff of the Imp AC was intended to be tied to the Diabolist class level, not Diabolist + highest CL, which would actually make it absurdly powerful.
It pretty much directly contradicts the later statement unless I'm reading it wrong. As far as I can tell though, the HD/stuff of the Imp AC was intended to be tied to the Diabolist class level, not Diabolist + highest CL, which would actually make it absurdly powerful.
I don't really think it contradicts eachother, as the companion still will advance as the diablist do it.
I understand your concern, and I am not sure what I'd rule. I am inclined to follow your suggestion, as a full animal companion is quite powerful, which makes the PrC a great 1 lvl dip for most casters.
On the other hand, a lvl 1 companion is a bit weak, especially having only 11 hp, and the class level describtion wouldn't make any sense.
My vote on the matter is undecided at the moment:)
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Thanks for that Rasmus. That would leave me to believe that it would work, since the abilities of the animal companion would not exceed my character level.
Shat Tahl - I was talking about applying the Boon Companion feat to the Imp Animal Companion from the Diabolist, not the Imp Familiar from the Wizard class.
As the Animal Companion counts as one in a weird way, I wasn't sure about the wording on Boon Companion; the bit about character level threw me off.
In my mind how it works:
Without Boon Companion
Wizard 10/Diabolist 1 (Character level 11, Familiar level 10, Animal Companion level 1)
With Boon Companion:
Wizard 10/Diabolist 1 (Character level 11, Familiar level 10, Animal Companion level 5)
I my opinion you are cheating yourself here.
As I read the rules for the Imp Companion it is calculated as an animal companion of your Diabolist + Wizard level (since it is your highest caster level).
As such the Companion should have statistics as a lvl 11 druid. Due to which you have no need of boon companion.While it is poorly written, and very well can be interpreted as the imp companion having a higher level than yourself, i believe that to be a mistake. The most reasonable interpretation would simply be to have the companion be calculated based on your caster level.
I see your point, but I forgot to point out the line that sparked my question to begin with:
** spoiler omitted **
Emphasis mine.
It...
It's pretty clear to me that they meant the Imp companion to be based on your total caster level, which in your case would be 11. This part really does it for me:
"A diabolist's imp increases in power as the diabolist gains levels according to Table: Animal Companion Base Statistics, with the following changes.Class Level
This is the diabolist's class level plus her highest caster level. This does not stack with class levels that grant an animal companion."
If you then go to the Animal Companion Base Statistics table, you see that the Class Level section, under level 11, shows these statistics:
Class Level HD BAB Fort Ref Will Skills Feats Natural Armor Bonus Str/Dex Bonus Bonus Tricks Special
11th 9 +6 +6 +6 +3 9 5 +6 +3 4 —
So we're talking about 9 hit dice, +6 BAB, etc. It's pretty clear cut to me.
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Thanks for that Rasmus. That would leave me to believe that it would work, since the abilities of the animal companion would not exceed my character level.
Shat Tahl - I was talking about applying the Boon Companion feat to the Imp Animal Companion from the Diabolist, not the Imp Familiar from the Wizard class.
As the Animal Companion counts as one in a weird way, I wasn't sure about the wording on Boon Companion; the bit about character level threw me off.
In my mind how it works:
Without Boon Companion
Wizard 10/Diabolist 1 (Character level 11, Familiar level 10, Animal Companion level 1)
With Boon Companion:
Wizard 10/Diabolist 1 (Character level 11, Familiar level 10, Animal Companion level 5)
I my opinion you are cheating yourself here.
As I read the rules for the Imp Companion it is calculated as an animal companion of your Diabolist + Wizard level (since it is your highest caster level).
As such the Companion should have statistics as a lvl 11 druid. Due to which you have no need of boon companion.While it is poorly written, and very well can be interpreted as the imp companion having a higher level than yourself, i believe that to be a mistake. The most reasonable interpretation would simply be to have the companion be calculated based on your caster level.
I see your point, but I forgot to point out the line that sparked my question to begin with:
** spoiler omitted **
Emphasis mine.
It...
It's pretty clear to me that they meant the Imp companion to be based on your total caster level, which in your case would be 11. This part really does it for me:
"A diabolist's imp increases in power as the diabolist gains levels according to Table: Animal Companion Base Statistics, with the following changes.Class Level
This is the diabolist's class level plus her highest caster level. This does not stack with class levels that grant an animal companion."
If you then go to...
Right, that does clear it up for me then. The question still stands though, how does Boon Companion interact with this?
If we take my Wizard as an example, if his Character level is 11, his Wizard level is 10 and his Diabolist level is 1, the Imp AC will have a class level of 11.
If Boon Companion works then it's class level with be 15 - higher than my character level, which it specifically states cannot work. However, I'm applying the Boon Companion feat to the Diabolist class, which would put it at Diabolist 5, which is NOT higher than my character level.
I suppose the real question now is, does the line in Boon Companion refer to the total power of the AC not being higher than your character level, or the class you choose for the feat not being higher than your character level.
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boon will do nothing for you, because you cant exceed your total character level which is 11. I really wish they would rewrite it to read what it's meant to do.
Not necessarily. Did some more sleuthing and found the following: I'm starting to think I'm nitpicking here (because an Imp AC is cool darnit), but there was this official post a while back:
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit.
This would make it clearer. And yes, you can take the feat if you're a single-classed ranger. It's actually pretty sweet deal.Currently we don't have a place to post FAQ/update material for books other than the Pathfinder RPG hardcovers, so I can't attach this to a permanent FAQ, but consider this an official ruling on this question.
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2zgd?Animal-Companions-and-Boon-Compan ion#34