Is an "Ultimate Adventurer" planned?


Homebrew and House Rules

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Probably not what the name would be, but we got a book for magic and all kinds of options for classes that use magic, and we got a book for combat and all kinds of options for classes that are combat heavy, and an ultimate race guide is coming out for people to really delve into their race (as well as some race-specific prestige classes I would think (seriously, I'd love to see Paizo's take on the Elven Bladesinger or the Dwarven Chanter)), but I wonder if we'll get a book for skills and options for skill-heavy classes. Anyone know if anything like that is even thought up as a possibility yet?


I would definitely buy this.

Lantern Lodge

i would too.

Shadow Lodge

I don't believe it is yet planned, but if enough interest is shown it could be added somewhere down the line.


Well, we have 3 people interested now... Anyone else?


Me me me.....

But seriously yes if it gives us some great stuff for skill based characters.


Make me five.

The Exchange

Well, only if it presented:

Variant skill systems - Shorter lists, new ways of using existing skills.
Social Combat rules
Player/GM suggestions for specific types of adventure outings - Impress the King, doing the dirty work, etc.
New feats that benefit the existing skill structure - Like picking a lock with a piece of straw with no penalty, crafting potions w/out magic, etc.
Pathfinder's take on Skill Challenges - How to build them, break them, etc.
A larger exploration of when/when not to roll dice.
And a metric ton of traits.

Just off the top of my head.


Skill Tricks.

The Exchange

Oh yes. Skill Tricks indeed.

Skill use in combat beyond Bluffing.


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Check out Rite Publishing's 101 New Skill Uses.


Will definatly have to on payday


Do want!

maybe a class that balances the Feat:Skill ratio a little more (even a prestige class would be good)

or even a way to expend skill points to 'buy' feats (dunno how much it would cost, or how to do it)

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

We don't have anything like this planned. The boys were supposed to cover all of that stuff in the two previous Ultimate books.


I like it.


That's too bad. I thought it might be a place for things like lightfighters and quickmonks. Like, how Ultimate Magic didn't really have anything for Barbarians, Cavaliers, Fighters or Rogues; and Ultimate Combat didn't really have anything for Sorcerers; I was thinking that Ultimate Skill (or whatever) would be all about making the stealth and sneak heavy class, so it probably wouldn't have much for the Paladin or Cavalier. But if it's not planned, it's not planned.


i would love to have a ultimate take on adventurers .

Maybe with a new baseclass to match like the pathfinder equivalent of the factotum a ultimate 5th wheel /jack of all trades , rogues also need some more love and theres allways room for more archetypes / feats , not to mention skill tricks and a ton of optional goodies .

i would buy it


Erik Mona wrote:

We don't have anything like this planned. The boys were supposed to cover all of that stuff in the two previous Ultimate books.

Maybe you guys should?

I love bards, and I think I understand why you guys chose to do it that way, but I personally don't like the bard approach to the Ultimate books (jack of all trades, and masters of none). I'd love truely specialized books, and not ones full of things to make everyone happy.

Shadow Lodge

Count me in!
Spread the (rogue?)love!


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I'm only supportive of such a book if it doesn't include Skill Trick-esque options for characters to choose (aka feats, etc) to be able to attempt things that they should be able to attempt with nothing more than a skill check.

Skill Tricks in 3.5 ruined a lot of my fun, because all of a sudden I couldn't do cool maneuvers and all sorts of generic BS because I didn't have the skill tricks. Frick that garbage. Feats have a habit of doing this as well (also most notably in 3.5).

If anything, I think there should just be a skills section in a book that expounds on the potential uses for certain skills, like using linguistics to pick up basic phrases of a language you don't know after spending time somewhere (but you haven't leveled up and can't add a rank to get the language). Expanding knowledges would be fun. Anything that increases options without costing resources is great for skills, IMO.

Silver Crusade

Foghammer wrote:

I'm only supportive of such a book if it doesn't include Skill Trick-esque options for characters to choose (aka feats, etc) to be able to attempt things that they should be able to attempt with nothing more than a skill check.

Skill Tricks in 3.5 ruined a lot of my fun, because all of a sudden I couldn't do cool maneuvers and all sorts of generic BS because I didn't have the skill tricks. Frick that garbage. Feats have a habit of doing this as well (also most notably in 3.5).

If anything, I think there should just be a skills section in a book that expounds on the potential uses for certain skills, like using linguistics to pick up basic phrases of a language you don't know after spending time somewhere (but you haven't leveled up and can't add a rank to get the language). Expanding knowledges would be fun. Anything that increases options without costing resources is great for skills, IMO.

Absolutly agree with this.


I think if the two Ultimate books are supposed to be the actual ultimate (as in last) word on their respective topics, the ball was dropped. I like both books and use them each quite a bit, but there is (least in my mind) no question that there is room for improvement. Ultimate Monkey (as in skill) should probably be done to complete (or further) the set, but I like the idea said above about more specialized books. One book that's supposed to make everyone happy is, at least to me, a bad idea. I would say take a note from Catalyst games...

They are beginning to produce a line of books that are PDF only, and very specialized. If no one in your group plays an adept, don't buy the adept book. There's a lot in ultimate combat I don't use. I bought the book (pdf only), so Paizo has my money, but honestly I'm not super happy with it (and subsiquently them) as I am with say, the APG...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hint: WotC never did a "skill book", even CAdv and CSco were pretty much run the mill "feat/spell/PrC" splatbooks. Wizards were, all and all, rather good at estimating what sells. What people want and what people ask for is not always the same.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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I think I'd rather see something more for GMs rather than players, with guidelines about how to be more creative with skill applications (but not "hard coded" things like skill tricks because I agree with other posters that 3.5 Skill Tricks actually limited skill potential, not the other way around). Guidelines for running games where combat isn't the only goal (which I know it isn't, but sometimes it gets presented that way) would also be great --- provide ideas for how to run intrigue campaigns, design puzzles and riddles, and create challenges that reward people for putting ranks into skills like Appraise, Knowledge, Linguistics, Perform, Profession, etc. And the info for players would be to show how skill based builds can work, with suggested builds for less typical campaigns, like urban intrigue.

While I know UM and UC didn't focus on bards and rogues and the skill-based aspects of classes like rangers, monks, and barbarians, and I do feel a little gap there, I do think the existing books regardless supply an adequate range of archetypes and whatnot to create excellent skillmonkeys--I don't think more build options are the answer here, in my personal opinion.

Call it the Game Mastery Guide to Ingenuity and Intrigue.

Or something along those lines.


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What I think has been a terrible flaw of previous 'ultimate skill' style books in the past is that they tend to assume skills are something only certain character classes should be having fun with. I prefer the idea that all classes should be able to gain from such a book, even those that only get 2/level.

But then, I'm the sort of player that always adds extra skill ranks to classes when I'm running a game, tries to convince the GM to use that house rule if I'm not, and failing that, put a high int on characters even if that does nothing for their class.

I like skills. Skills are for everyone.


I think I'd like to see a systematic set of classes and archetypes.

For each of the classic four roles (fighter, divine caster, arcane caster, trap/skill monkey) create or republish a class or archetype based on each stat (except maybe con) and provide rudimentary feat and spell support. Stuff like republishing dervish dance (hopefully generalized) and piranha strike and the agile weapon property in one place, bringing in rogue talents to pull the rogue up to par, and the like.

There is, just for example, no Wis based trap/skill monkey. A monk or inquisitor archetype with trapfinding (and other support to not have to dump Int in the monk's case) or just the ability to disable magical traps as if they had trapfinding would fill that hole.

Sovereign Court

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I liked skill tricks, at first, but then, like others, felt they actually limited what everyone without the skill trick could do. Besides, skill tricks are pretty clearly identifiable as a WotC creation, so those are probably out.

What I do like A LOT is more along the lines of 101 New Skill Uses, which basically assign s skill tricks and other wild skill uses high DCs, so everyone can try it, but pretty much, without a decent amount of ranks, you ain't pullin' it off.

Overall, I'd love this book. More depth on what you can do with skills, more complex skill tests (aka- skill challenges), alternative systems for Perception and Stealth, more feats for substituting one base ability score for another, more ways to use skills to affect combat and spell casting, a discussion of social combat (why do I get to decide that my character doesn't believe an NPC even tough his Bluff is high and my Sense Motive is low, when I CAN"T just say he missed with his dagger, even though his Attack is high and my AC is low?), magic items that affect skill checks (+1 thieves' tools, anyone?), etc.


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If I were to buy a book based on skills, here is what I would look for:

1) Expand the current uses of the skills. Show how to use Diplomacy to Haggle or how to use Sense Motive in combat to gain an advantage.

2) Show how to use the skills in combat. The Tome of Secrets tried to do this and I think that Paizo could take it further.

3) Clean up the Craft skills

4) Explain more what you know from Knowledge skills as it applies to monsters. One thing I liked that I saw from WotC was the breakdown of what you know with each check.

5) Expand on Aid Another so that you can provide higher bonuses with higher checks.

6) Clean up Stealth and Perception skills.

7) Expand on Heal so that you treat Conditions.

8) Knowledge (History, Geography, and Engineering) don't really provide anything besides role playing. While we all want that, many of us want a mechanical benefit.

9) Show which Craft or Profession skills would be used for which items in the Core Rule Book for crafting magic items. Some items are probably very easy to figure out but others may not be.

10) And, I think this is probably the most important, how to set DCs. I can't find anything in Pathfinder on what is expected at any given level like there was in DnD.

Of course, more feats, archetypes, prestige classes, etc. I would not like to see more spells that enhance skills. Casters already have enough ways to overshadow other classes. No need to make it worse.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I would love to see this, although I believe it was either James or Jason who was really against it (one or the other) in a thread.

What I'd love to see :

Smart Archetypes for the classes who are normally dumbed down. Fighters for instance, an archetype who's more of a general or leader type, who get's more skills per level and more class skills, but gives up some other things (sort of like the Kensai archtype, but more generic, if I remember the archtypes correctly). Same for barbarians, wizards, sorcerers, etc. Something that bumps them from 2/level to 4/level, and the 4/level classes to 6/level.

Then, fix some of the more screwed up skills (Stealth is a good start on this), then crafting! And, better crafting rules (both mundane and magical). By that I mean not only rules that divorce time from cost, but also clarifications on the what you can take +5 to avoid and what you can't (it'd be worth it just to cut down on all the stupid forum arguments).

Expansions on Profession skills, giving examples of professions, and what sort of uses can be made of them in game other than just making coin.

Make any 'skill tricks' things that are not already possible, and require ranks in skills to perform them. I'd like to see more feats that require skill ranks. Things like, say, a feat to allow you to treat jumping as if you had a running start if you had 5 ranks in acrobatics. Or, the ability to mask your alignment as part of a disguise check if you have at least X ranks in disguise and Y amount of time to prepare. Or even just the ability to disguise your alignment using the disguise skill. I don't want a feat for doing a swashbuckling swing from the chandalier, that's already doable, don't take it away from everyone else.


I would buy everything that has a "last" base class like that factotum, chamaeleon or master of masks that can emulate all other classes even if it has some restrictions (times per day, or lvl-5 or whatever).

Except from this, if it's just a book with some new skill uses, or focused on a new alternate rules set (like a final version of stealth), then I'm not hugely interested.


I was only able to have one PC who took ranks with "Skill Talents"before switching to 3.75, and the campaign ended before I got to use it. (I think it had something to do with jumping farther). Now that others have pointed out, if skill tricks do have the effect of limiting what others do, then I would agree no skill talents (despite my earlier endorsement). I just had a conversion with a friend about how it is disappointing that some of the feats and archetypes have done this. (I am thinking the Roof Runner and Pirate archetypes specifically).

I like the ideas that others have pointed out about just showing things that can be done with current skills. Also, archetypes that modify class skills or more that give extra skill ranks for at least the fighter (I think fighter should have 4 anyway, but YMMV). More light armored options for the "heavy-armor" classes and more love for rogues.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Bob_Loblaw wrote:

If I were to buy a book based on skills, here is what I would look for:

1) Expand the current uses of the skills. Show how to use Diplomacy to Haggle or how to use Sense Motive in combat to gain an advantage.

2) Show how to use the skills in combat. The Tome of Secrets tried to do this and I think that Paizo could take it further.

3) Clean up the Craft skills

4) Explain more what you know from Knowledge skills as it applies to monsters. One thing I liked that I saw from WotC was the breakdown of what you know with each check.

5) Expand on Aid Another so that you can provide higher bonuses with higher checks.

6) Clean up Stealth and Perception skills.

7) Expand on Heal so that you treat Conditions.

8) Knowledge (History, Geography, and Engineering) don't really provide anything besides role playing. While we all want that, many of us want a mechanical benefit.

9) Show which Craft or Profession skills would be used for which items in the Core Rule Book for crafting magic items. Some items are probably very easy to figure out but others may not be.

10) And, I think this is probably the most important, how to set DCs. I can't find anything in Pathfinder on what is expected at any given level like there was in DnD.

Of course, more feats, archetypes, prestige classes, etc. I would not like to see more spells that enhance skills. Casters already have enough ways to overshadow other classes. No need to make it worse.

I agree with all of your numbered suggestions a great deal. As for the last, I have no interest in more feats or archetypes, however; I've definitely hit my personal limit there.

But everything else you suggest is really right on, IMO.

Along with DCs, something on high level skill uses could be good too. I think most sample DCs go up to 30 or so (maybe higher for some traps). Yet when I ran a high level campaign, PCs were easily hitting 35-50 in their areas of expertise. While for simple tasks you could just assume that obviously they'd succeed without their needing to roll (and I am fine with that)--if PCs are capable of achieving these things, how about some sample DCs for what would actually be that hard, that would actually force a high level PC to make a skill check.


I would like to see some alternate skill systems. One idea I want to try in a home game is to separate skill bonus from skill ranks.

Ranks give you additional dice that you can roll, on a 4 ranks per 1 extra die rate. From there, you get a bonus on the roll equal to twice the number of dice you roll.

So if I have a fighter10 with 10 ranks in Climb, he would get 3d20 (take highest) + Str mod + 3 (class skill bonus) + 6 (twice number of d20s rolled).


Lots of Whatever was/is/will be said.

A 8 + int mod skill points class without Sneak attack and its variants.

Maybe an option to trade weapon and armor proficiencies for more class skills and/or skill points.

@ DeathQuaker , An "Ultimate GM" guide/book?


I was thinking about this the other day. It might not see the light of day, but it is not a bad idea.


Well, there weren't any prestige classes in either of the other two 'ultimate' books, so if this one was ever made, I wouldn't think that there would be any in Ultimate Adventurer either (though I'm still hoping that racial prestige classes appear in Ultimate Race Guide), but I do keep hoping that other prestige classes do come out, like Dragon Warrior (like Dragon Disciple, but completely melee, no spellcasting) but I can wait for that.
Things I'd like to see are skill and rp heavy archtypes for most of the classes, and maybe in a future book, alternate rules for things like advanced or early materials (titanium longswords or bronze breastplates), using hex maps rather than square maps, things like that.


YamadaJisho wrote:
titanium longswords

Titanium longswords aren't advanced. They're cheap props. The advantages of titanium are that it's light and you're not as likely to hurt anyone with it, so it's better for a convincingly metal sword if you want to show off.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Adamantine

An alloy of about 2% beryllium and 97% nickel, with a touch of titanium. It has an ultimate tensile strength of 300,000 psi, and 245,000 psi yield strength. This is 375% stronger than the best high tensile steel.

This, by the way, is an actual alloy in the real world. It doesn't seem to have a common name, the only one I could find was BNT360. However, I think 375% stronger than steel is a good approximation for Adamantine based on game statistics (hardness if nothing else).


Umbral Reaver wrote:


Titanium longswords aren't advanced. They're cheap props. The advantages of titanium are that it's light and you're not as likely to hurt anyone with it, so it's better for a convincingly metal sword if you want to show off.

You are confusing Titanium and Aluminium, kinda


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Void Munchkin wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:


Titanium longswords aren't advanced. They're cheap props. The advantages of titanium are that it's light and you're not as likely to hurt anyone with it, so it's better for a convincingly metal sword if you want to show off.

You are confusing Titanium and Aluminium, kinda

Meh,

Sorta. The prop swords are anything from aluminum to wooden cores with a buff and sheen coating that looks like metal to plastic with a foam core (and the same steel buffing).

If you see the blades casting sparks, they're usually aluminum (and there's usually some electric wires involved to get the sparks). If the blade has intricate runes, you're usually looking at a wooden core coated with a clay coating and then rub and buff metal sheen (look it up on the internet).

Titanium is a lousy lousy metal for a sword. It has a lot of strength, but not the right kind. While it has a lot of sheer force strength, it tends not to be as hard as steel or even aluminum alloys, so it won't keep a shape like a sword blade needs to (this is why they don't use Titanium in construction). Titanium is much better as an alloy component, it lends it's lightness and strength to other metals which are better at maintaining shape.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
YamadaJisho wrote:
Well, there weren't any prestige classes in either of the other two 'ultimate' books, so if this one was ever made, I wouldn't think that there would be any in Ultimate Adventurer either (though I'm still hoping that racial prestige classes appear in Ultimate Race Guide),

Given that Paizo's thrust so far has been to de-race the racial PrC's that already existed i.e. the Dwarven Defender and the Arcane Archer, I kind of doubt that they'd do that sort of about-face.


Okay, then let's go with duranium then, rather than titanium. Or maybe carbon fiber bows and such. But the advanced materials idea is still valid.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
YamadaJisho wrote:
alternate rules for things like advanced or early materials (titanium longswords or bronze breastplates

You could try Ultimate Combat, it has rules for primitive materials like bronze, stone, obsidian and bone.


Erik Mona wrote:

We don't have anything like this planned. The boys were supposed to cover all of that stuff in the two previous Ultimate books.

well, the boys has now UCampaign, UCombat, UEquipment, UMagic, and still nothing so good than skill tricks... Sad, shame on you paizians :P


Only if it consists of a one line document that says
Every class should have 3 more skill points per level than stated

I really do not want the skills to have a combat role as they will be OP. As you can get a 50 on a skill check by say 10th level, this far outstrips any attack, save,AC, etc "number"


I have a thread about cool new talents for rogues here, with some great ideas. I really hope that they do a book like this and it has scads of powerful and cool talents.

I'd like to see a Cugel the Clever type rogue. No Bard song, no perform. Some magic (perhaps just bard progression). Many skills, maybe even 10, only half sneak attack.


I concur. I would like to see a book especially focused on skilled based classes, and running campaigns that are more about intrigue and detective work than just smashing something in the face. Certainly Rogues could use more options. Maybe even include a new base class or two (I always thought Spy was a distinctive enough niche to build a class around).


Guys, stop necromancing


Rub-Eta wrote:
Guys, stop necromancing

Why? The Op's question is still relevant, in fact even more relevant as it has been three years now.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh sorry, I was just raising awareness about illegal black magic, continue your conversation.

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