Divine scroll flavor...


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So, I've never really thought about it before, but it's come up in a recent discussion, but I find divine scrolls kind of funny.

With an arcane scroll, you've written out the learning and procedure required to cast the spell quickly. When someone reads the scroll, it completes the casting of the spell and the magic is activated. Cool. This flavor really highlights the academic nature of arcane magic.

Divine spells are the result of a petition to a divine being, usually in the form of some sort of prayer in my mind. So, when a divine caster scribes a scroll, the divine being is basically agreeing to grant the power in the moment that it's needed. Doesn't that make divine scrolls tantamount to a coupon that you can redeem at will for an answered prayer? That's a little silly to me.

How do you all flavor your divine scrolls? I'd even be open to some other (hopefully REALLY similar) mechanic, like a small holy token being imbued with the power of the spell to be released when needed. What have you got?


You have stumbled upon one of my pet pevs with the whole concept of divine casting. I tend to think of miracles (spells) to work on the dieties terms not the the one asking.

There are a few flavor options around the scroll though. Divine spells are divine power used by the faithful toward the dieties goals. So scrolls are not coupons they are part of the contract between the diety and the faithful. If the faithful does X the diety will do Y. For puroses of fluff I would put them in terms of stories, prayers and rituals. A chaotic good diety might have a lot of stories and the scolls and spells might evoke times in which the diety has acted in the past. This scroll of "feast of heroes" might remember the time when the lowly village priest fed the whole town durring a famine. It might end with a simple prayer asking for a similar blessing. A Lawful Evil diety might delight in forcing the would be faithful to jump through all sorts of hoops the scoll might be directions that require bloodletting, further promises of service.


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They are poems and verse extolling the virtues of their god. At least to me.


Except they aren't faith specific.
Your chaotic good cleric can scribe the heroes feast then have it looted from him by the Lawful Evil priest who uses to feed his orc army as the march through the desert to reach the same small village.

Or a thief could steal it and use UMD to trick the divine into thinking he's a cleric.

It's bothered me since 1st edition.


Stop poking holes in my fantasy :(

The Exchange

I don't normally make Divine Casters with Scribe Scroll, so this has never really come up, but yeah, that is kinda weird. Kinda reminds me of the Archivist, from 3.5.


This suprisingly has not come up in my game with how to flavor them.


And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats and large chu...

I agree with Cheapy- I see divine scrolls as mystical instructions for calling down the power of the given faith. In most faiths, that takes the form of a prayer to the deity. For the nondenominational version just base it on Taoism or Zen, extolling the virtues of the core philosophical ideal rather than a god.


thejeff wrote:
Except they aren't faith specific.

They're not faith-specific in their use, but might still be so in appearance.

Besides, the Deity put the power in a Cleric's head - whatever that Cleric then does with it is their own responsibility. Even a God can't go around constantly second-guessing their subordinates.

Shadow Lodge

I think it really depends fairly heavily on how Divine magic works for you. For me, Divine magic is purely a matter or the individuals belief and faith in something beyond themselves. It doesn't really matter what the faith is (to a point), but rather that that faith causes the user to explore, understand, quest for, and unlock secrets about thier own soul, spirituality, and mysteries of the universe. Because of this, deities actually have no true control over Divine Casters, though that is the easiest way to explain and understand how divine magic "works". Deities and religion greatly aid the user in understanding themselves, and codifying their own beliefs.

This changes a few things about the concept of divine magic, but in practice and mechanics, nothing. It does mean that divine casters must study and develope thier "casting" rather than this idea of it being handed to them (in a level based XP system), and that Divine magic holds a little more weight and responsibility, which is much more in line with the generic fluff.

For scrolls, and similar items, what this would mean is that they are trapped pieces of the creaters essence and wisdom, ready to be released just like Arcane scrolls. Obviously they are encoded in riddles, religious texts and prayers, mysteries, divine (celestial/abyssal/infernal) glyphs and scripture, art, and similar things, though <generally> usable by anyone with the propper wisdom for souch things <ie anyone that could otherwise cast the spell or trick the item via UMD>.


"Oh [Insert deity name], you are soooo big; I mean, really huge... We're all awfully impressed down here. If you'd see fit, if it's not too much trouble, to give us a hand we'd be ever so grateful. Much Thanks, you're faithful servant [insert priest's name]."

This was an actual prayer spoken aloud by a priest character during a LARP many years back which we jokingly use around the table when our divine casters are casting.

I figure divine scrolls are prayers read aloud which extol the virtues and mercies of a god without naming said deity; allowing a priest of another faith to make use of it freely. The priest's own faith is what allows the prayer scroll to tap into the divine might of his patron.

Silver Crusade

PRD wrote:

Divine Magical Writings

Divine spells can be written and deciphered like arcane spells (see Arcane Magical Writings). A Spellcraft check can decipher divine magical writing and identify it. Only characters who have the spell (in its divine form) on their class spell list can cast a divine spell from a scroll.

Basically, they use the same writing system for writing spells down. Maybe the divine copied it from the wizards so as to codify spells. Or wizards were clerics who got tired of asking for power and just took it and the method of writing spells.


Remember that scrolls are magical items. They have spells locked within them, ready to be used. So a scroll is actually a spell wich has been cast already, it just needs a trigger to release the spell. If you look at scrolls that way, it doesn't really matter if they are arcane or divine. It only matters if someone has the knowhow to trigger them (use the correct gestures/intonation etc; hence only spellcasters can use them and clever rogues or other UMD users.

Same is true for a potion of cure light wounds. The energy of the spell is already used and the spell has been cast, it just needs an specific action to trigger it.

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