Making a Healer


Advice


So we are starting a new adventure path next week. And I'm looking to make a healer so we don't have the same people doing it each and every time. I have a catch though.. I want to use the Kitsune race from the new book.

The adventure is going to be in a jungle with lots of nasty stuff.

Our party looks something like..

Human two-weapon Fighter
Serpentfolk Druid
??? Rogue
??? Wizard
??? (Usually plays a fighterish character though, as she has a hard time doing anything else.)

My options that I see thus far is..

Alchemist - I'll make you better.. with the power of SCIENCE!
Bard - Live, Live, and fight a new day!
Cleric - The power of cthullu compels thee!
Druid - Can you paint with all the colors of the wind?
Priest - Weapons are for those with little faith.
Oracle - Upon the barren moon of the sundered night..
Witch - FLY MY PRETTIES!

Kitsune from what I've been told, are a +cha race that is medium sized and moves 30 feet. This is important for me, as I do not want to move slower than that (need to outrun the ROUSes..)

Some interesting things I've thought off..

If i went witch, I could have a fox companion.. throw that one on for size.

If I go oracle, I could take clouded vision and be all like "ITS OVER THERE GUYS!.. is what I would say if I could see it."

Bard would be kinda funny, cause I could do Geshia and have tea parties all the time :D

With +cha, of course oracle and bard would be good choices.. but.. I dunno.

Don't really want to do another druid since we have one already.

The big limitation is I cannot use anything from 3.5, but most things homebrewed I might be able to.. provided I get the clear form the DM.


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go the alchemist, be schooled at apature, and be called glados. for SCIENCE!

Dark Archive

half elfor human (for free skill focus) life oracle.

take eldrich heritage (arcane bloodline), grab a familiar.

after 6th level its like having the feat reach spell for free, with no metamagic cost. take improved familiar and pick up a silvanshee (the angelic cat with lay on hands). since its LoH is based on hd and its effective hd goes up with your level, you get a pretty awesome back-up healer with it

pick up the channel revelation, energy body and the feat selective channeling


I think the Silvanshee's LoH isn't based on your level. At the very least, there's a bunch of confusion about it.

Dark Archive

Cheapy wrote:
I think the Silvanshee's LoH isn't based on your level. At the very least, there's a bunch of confusion about it.
Quote:

Familiar Basics

Use the basic statistics for a creature of the familiar's kind, but with the following changes.

Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.

Quote:

Agathion Subtype:

...
Lay on hands as a paladin whose level equals the agathion’s Hit Dice.

what confusion?


What level are you playing at? 1 or waaa?

If your starting at 1- ... Cleric.. because if you wanna heal- .. dey get the job done- ..

Otherwise I'd go Witch- ... and always speak in rhymes!


This confusion. Nothing official, it looks like. I guess I was confused about the confusion.

Liberty's Edge

Ævux wrote:
I want to use the Kitsune race from the new book.

Gah! ...I tear my hair out whenever I see something like this -- I have no idea what you're talking about -- no link, no nothin'.

(Certainly not looking forward to PFS being overrun by a horde of Naruto fox-ninja clones, but I digress...)

Lantern Lodge

Are you making a Healbot + Resto? or a Support Cleric? Cos there is a big difference here.


Mike Schneider wrote:
Ævux wrote:
I want to use the Kitsune race from the new book.

Gah! ...I tear my hair out whenever I see something like this -- I have no idea what you're talking about -- no link, no nothin'.

(Certainly not looking forward to PFS being overrun by a horde of Naruto fox-ninja clones, but I digress...)

No, I actually hate naruto. I'd post a link if there was one.

Just assume for all intensive purposes that is a medium sized halfling with racial abilities right now. Besides, you have hair but the stuff on your chinny chin chin. I've mostly said that I want to play kitsune cause I happen to like non-humanish characters and don't particularly like playing even half an elf.

Okay we are starting at one.

Healing will probably be more than just hp damage, we are in a jungle and so there is some nasty stuff in there.

I like being out of the box too.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

First Rule of Being a healer: Don't be a healer.

Second Rule of Being a healer: Refer to rule number one.

But what kind of healing can you provide?

I say play someone whose got a primary set of skills but can still do a decent amount of healing as a secondary role. Bards, Witches, Clerics, Inquisitors and Alchemists can particularly excel at this and should be considered. Build with another purpose in mind. Make a bombing alchemist chirurgeon who can throw down a ridculous heal score and pass out healing potions when needed. Use a bard whose support abilities will usually be more appreciated more often while you spam a wand of curelight wounds. Be a cleric who can heal without using spells and can still learn taht all important lesser restoration.


Rougly how much gold will you be getting per level?

Also prevention is better than cure.

Focus on something other than healing but do it as a secondary focus.


We start off with 150 gp. Then whatever we get after that is going to be through the AP (Serpents Skull)

Prevention is one of the first things on my mind. Stopping people from getting all sorts of crazy jungle ailments..

Silver Crusade

If you're cha based, then bard, oracle, and cleric are all good choices. Because clerics are wisdom spellcasters, people sometimes forget that charisma is used for their channeling, and especially selective channeling.

But as others have said, what do you want to do besides healing? There are a ton of options. I've got a cleric who can buff, heal, and has some combat skill. I've also got a bard who's primarily an archer and skill monkey, treating the spells and bardic performance as secondary things, and happens to be able to use cure wands just by virtue of being a bard. But during battle, he's usually going to be too busy shooting things to pull out a wand, so the healing will mostly come between fights.


I really don't know what I want to do besides healing. My previous idea was a vivsectionist alchemist who would go around nabbing woodland creatures (using non-lethal weapons via some feats). Unfortunately, I found out later that someone wanted to be a druid.. and well doing mad science experiments is kinda a no-no with a druid in that fashion.

I know in 3.5 I built a full-on healer with the healer class and everything. when not doing healing, I was bypassing doors with stone to flesh spells.. as flesh doesn't lock very well. :D

Okay, I got the PDF now. As a kitsune, I can pretty much freely shift between a human and a hybrid fox form. And the DC of my enchantment spells increases by 1. So... I might want to play something that has lots of enchantment spells.


Making a heal-bot is never really fun. I have had such a character before, and all the character could do was heal. A channel master, but not good for much else. Except for cool spells that were being turned into heals. Clerics have pretty cool spells in general, and healing is sometimes a waste of these.

So my new take on the group's healers is basically this: Everyone can buy their own wands of cure light, and have a person who can cast this spell use the wands on them. There is nothing a healer hates more than those front line fighters that complain about healing every second step, but stop you from using the spells you really want to.

Sorry ranting a bit, but the group I play with have sort of decided that wands of CL is the best form of healing. And there are a lot of classes that can use this wand. (also means skill monkeys can heal as well with UMD).


My group is a:

Sorcerer
Druid
Rogue
TW Fighter

The Druid preps some healing spells and we have a wand of CLW.

This has been enough so far (Just hit level 6).

But we have had practically NO money all the way. Like 50gp! Prices were increased 400%+ until we resolved something, which we now have thankfully.

However it does show you don't need - and shouldn't even have, a dedicated healer.

Example:

Sorcerer (me) casts Pyrotechnics - blinding 2 of the 4 Fighters. Damage drops by 50%.

They were doing around 10hp each per hit. Say 10hp per round prevented. That's 50 damage over the 5 rounds they were blind. Yes I rolled well to get 5 rounds but that's 75% (d4+1 rounds).

Compare to a healing spell: Cure Moderate Wounds - heals maybe 15hp (2d8+5)?

That's not even factoring in the + to hit since they lose AC due to Blindness!

----------

+Cha +enchantment spells points to Bard for me... :)

Lantern Lodge

Ævux wrote:

I really don't know what I want to do besides healing. My previous idea was a vivsectionist alchemist who would go around nabbing woodland creatures (using non-lethal weapons via some feats). Unfortunately, I found out later that someone wanted to be a druid.. and well doing mad science experiments is kinda a no-no with a druid in that fashion.

I know in 3.5 I built a full-on healer with the healer class and everything. when not doing healing, I was bypassing doors with stone to flesh spells.. as flesh doesn't lock very well. :D

Okay, I got the PDF now. As a kitsune, I can pretty much freely shift between a human and a hybrid fox form. And the DC of my enchantment spells increases by 1. So... I might want to play something that has lots of enchantment spells.

Since you mentioned jungle, if you are going as a cleric the domains you want would be liberation domain. The charm domain could cover some enchantment spells.

Liberation gives you a Freedom of Movement on the fly. Up to your cleric level per day. This will keep YOU out of trouble so you can spend more time helping your allies.
Travel is also good, as it give fly later and you can ignore DT up to 3+wis mod per day. Also the +10 to movement helps.

If you want to be an enchanter+healer with great movement, cleric is the way to go. Other classes may be better in enchanting and other stuff, but as a cleric you can make yourself almost immune to things that restrict your movement, therefore keeping you on your feet, and your party via you.

Jungle setting usually means stuff like poisons and other stats damaging effects. Clerics have access to lesser restoration earlier then most other classes and they get all the other important "maintenance" spells all the removes, restore spells.

Finally, remember that as the party's "healer" your job is not to cure every little cut that party suffers, but to make the important heals in battle where your healing would mean victory or a very dead party/ally.


Just to throw an alternative suggestion out there: Paladins can actually make decent combat healers, and they're Cha-based too.

Channel Energy can get pretty good with the Sacred Servant archetype, which allows you to buff its healing further. The Celestial servants you can eventually call could also serve as backup healers in a pinch.
Get Extra Channel and Selective Channel, maybe some of the other channel or LoH-focused feats, depending on need.

Jungle setting might make the disease and poison mercies more attractive.

The main advantage of the Paladin is that you'll be very hard to take down, with high saves, heavy armor and swift action LoH on yourself (also when combined with the Hero's Defiance spell). So you're durable enough to take a lot of punishment, which means you can keep healing people for longer.
Main problem is channel energy uses per day, but if you pump Cha and get extra Channel (and possibly extra LoH) it should get better.

And when you're not healing, you can easily contribute in combat with your greatsword or similar.


My recomendation is among those classes you list, look at the things they do BESIDES healing and condition removal. See which appeals to you most and play that. Healing is important to have access to, but you dont want that to be the only thing you do.


Well If I would to go base cleric, I'd probably go priest instead.

One issue with paladins is that heavy armor in a jungle is bad, I'm also not that much of a righteous dude.


Ævux wrote:

I really don't know what I want to do besides healing. My previous idea was a vivsectionist alchemist who would go around nabbing woodland creatures (using non-lethal weapons via some feats). Unfortunately, I found out later that someone wanted to be a druid.. and well doing mad science experiments is kinda a no-no with a druid in that fashion.

I know in 3.5 I built a full-on healer with the healer class and everything. when not doing healing, I was bypassing doors with stone to flesh spells.. as flesh doesn't lock very well. :D

Okay, I got the PDF now. As a kitsune, I can pretty much freely shift between a human and a hybrid fox form. And the DC of my enchantment spells increases by 1. So... I might want to play something that has lots of enchantment spells.

Which pdf is that, exactly?

Nevermind. I found it.

Lantern Lodge

Corlindale wrote:

Just to throw an alternative suggestion out there: Paladins can actually make decent combat healers, and they're Cha-based too.

Channel Energy can get pretty good with the Sacred Servant archetype, which allows you to buff its healing further. The Celestial servants you can eventually call could also serve as backup healers in a pinch.
Get Extra Channel and Selective Channel, maybe some of the other channel or LoH-focused feats, depending on need.

Jungle setting might make the disease and poison mercies more attractive.

The main advantage of the Paladin is that you'll be very hard to take down, with high saves, heavy armor and swift action LoH on yourself (also when combined with the Hero's Defiance spell). So you're durable enough to take a lot of punishment, which means you can keep healing people for longer.
Main problem is channel energy uses per day, but if you pump Cha and get extra Channel (and possibly extra LoH) it should get better.

And when you're not healing, you can easily contribute in combat with your greatsword or similar.

Paladins make great hp-only healers, that can be very tough.

The problem with Paladins as healers, is the fact that they often have to give up something. Be it combat damage, attack... etc.
While Clerics can heal, no matter what build they go with. Its just a matter of some builds healing better then others.

1 big minus for Paladins, it the much more limited spell selection.
As the party levels up, poisons, diseases, damage to stats and other negative conditions start piling up. Clerics can without the need to spec for it clear up this problems, via the spells they have.

Kolokotroni wrote:
My recomendation is among those classes you list, look at the things they do BESIDES healing and condition removal. See which appeals to you most and play that. Healing is important to have access to, but you dont want that to be the only thing you do.

The nice thing about Oracles and Clerics, is that they can heal, no matter what they do. A Battle Mystery Oracle can still have access to healing spells. A Necromancer Cleric, that channels Neg energy can still prepare a couple of healing spells each day and have access to restoration spells.

No matter what you want to play, Archer-Cleric, Summoner via Scared Summons, Charmer as an Evangelist. They ALL can heal!

The only differences is that some builds, for example, a heal domain + positive channel build, can heal better. But that's it!
Oracles and Clerics are geared from the start to be able to heal. Its just a matter of how much they want to focus on it.

Other classes like Bards can pick up healing, but they have to chose to do so.

Liberty's Edge

Ævux wrote:
Just assume for all intensive purposes that is a medium sized halfling with racial abilities right now. Besides, you have hair but the stuff on your chinny chin chin. I've mostly said that I want to play kitsune cause I happen to like non-humanish characters and don't particularly like playing even half an elf.

Does a playtest version of it exist yet? (I.e., do when know what the ability adjustments and other racial features will be?)

= = = =

My general advice for healers is to be mobile or at least have the Selective Channel feat.


Its in the dragon emprires gazzateer. -2 str, +2 cha, +2 dex.
it has a bite and can shift into a human form (any duration) +1 to dcs for enchantment spells and dancing lights 3/day


Why is it that I randomly become unable to edit old posts?

Besides that, I've figured out what I want to do. As a healer, I want to be able to become a fortune teller too. I'm thinking Oracle of the Time mystery.

25 point buy, level 1, race kitsune... goal is to heal (not just hp damage but other stuff too) and also do fortune telling.


Ævux wrote:

Why is it that I randomly become unable to edit old posts?

Besides that, I've figured out what I want to do. As a healer, I want to be able to become a fortune teller too. I'm thinking Oracle of the Time mystery.

25 point buy, level 1, race kitsune... goal is to heal (not just hp damage but other stuff too) and also do fortune telling.

There is also the Seer Archetype for Oracles.


Ævux wrote:
Why is it that I randomly become unable to edit old posts?

There is one hour time window to edit post, afterwards it becomes uneditable.

Quote:

Besides that, I've figured out what I want to do. As a healer, I want to be able to become a fortune teller too. I'm thinking Oracle of the Time mystery.

25 point buy, level 1, race kitsune... goal is to heal (not just hp damage but other stuff too) and also do fortune telling.

Removing condition for fun and profit? So restoration, remove (condition), dispel and break enchantment will be your focus in addition to divinations?


Pretty much, Drejk. Kinda wanting to go Harrower, so an oracle with the haunted curse might be good (Provided it doesn't screw with harrowings)

Or I might go bard, particularly either magician (bonus to umd) or archivist, unless one fits better. Could go geisha and have some tea parties.


Geisha is an example of wonderful ideas wrapped in bad fluff.


I know :P

Just find the idea funny of the party wandering through the jungle, while I'm pushing a beverage cart (and have troubles with it) through the jungle with a squeaky wheel. "Hey guys! its been like for ever since we had tea, lets have tea!"

"Its only been ten minutes!"

Since we already have a druid, I don't really need to focus to heavily on hp damage healing.


Ævux wrote:


Since we already have a druid, I don't really need to focus to heavily on hp damage healing.

The issue of course with healing in other ways is that if you memorize those spells you're stuck with them and might find yourself regretting those choices later.

Rather I've discovered that moat bad conditions that don't go away are better off being dealt with post combat with open slots. Sit for 15 minutes or so and memorize the appropriate open slot for the spell you need. This works great with clerics or other prepared spellcasters with big spellbooks and that's the approach I would suggest for you.

Lantern Lodge

Ævux wrote:

I know :P

Just find the idea funny of the party wandering through the jungle, while I'm pushing a beverage cart (and have troubles with it) through the jungle with a squeaky wheel. "Hey guys! its been like for ever since we had tea, lets have tea!"

"Its only been ten minutes!"

Since we already have a druid, I don't really need to focus to heavily on hp damage healing.

You should talk to your Druid and see what kind of druid is he making.

Remember, Druids can only spontaneous cast summon animal spells. A druid have to memorize healing spells into their spell slots and not all druids will want to do that. Some Druids, play more like blasters and memorize damage spells like lightning more.

So unless your Druid is going to make a point of spending 2-3 slots for healing spells to use in-battle, you may have to pick up the slack.
That said, any Druid that don't prepare at least 1 or 2 healing spells for emergencies is asking for it.

Finally check the Druid's spell-list, I don't think they have access to higher-level restoration spells.


The player playing the druid is typically one of the two people who play a healer in our group. She normally ends up having a few cure spells.

Mostly we are going to have diseases and poisons.. things that a good heal check should help with. If that doesn't work, I could UMD wands as needed.

Against most monsters, since I'll be using lots of enchantment spells, I'm going to be fairly heavy CC. I've got one trait that increases mind effecting spells +1 caster level.


Life Oracle is the best dedicated healer.

1. Everything is based on Cha so generally more channels and spells than a Cleric

2. Enhanced Cures takes away the caps on Cure spells, Cure Light Wounds at level 20 is 1d8+20 so you will still be using it

3. Mass Heal as an 8th level spell or as my DM used to call it "when you reset all the damage I did that round"

4. Spontaneously casting means you just have to know all the Removes, Restorations etc and then cast them immediately as needed

5. Safe Curing means you don't provoke AoO when curing

6. Using Spirit Boost you can heal people beyond their max hit points

I have played up to level 20 with a Life Oracle and you can easily know every possible 'healing' type spell and still have room for some enchantment spells and in the case of my Haunted Oracle reversing the gravity in the room or telekenetically grappling casters from hundreds of feet away.

Also as a healer Reach Metamagic is your friend and is much easier to make use of as an Oracle than a Cleric.

Lantern Lodge

Ævux wrote:

The player playing the druid is typically one of the two people who play a healer in our group. She normally ends up having a few cure spells.

Mostly we are going to have diseases and poisons.. things that a good heal check should help with. If that doesn't work, I could UMD wands as needed.

Against most monsters, since I'll be using lots of enchantment spells, I'm going to be fairly heavy CC. I've got one trait that increases mind effecting spells +1 caster level.

Suggesting this, since you have another hp healer in the party.

If you want to focus heavily on enchanting spells, I suggest you look at the Evangelist Archetype with the charm/love domains. (Love-subdomain's power can help you in a pinch.)
You can't spontaneously cast healing spells, but you can spontaneously cast a bunch of enchantment-type spells.
Just be warned that as a Cleric you may find yourself stretch in stats distribution.

The reason is, Enchanter-Clerics, like all Clerics, use Wis for their spell-casting, but they also need a high Cha, as many Enchantment spells like charm person requires Charisma checks.
If you can get a point spread that covers both this stats well, then it should not be a problem.

Just remember that Clerics need good Con stats as well. As you will usually fail Reflex saves and need the HP to tank out the damage.

NOTE!!! - Many Enchantment spells are language dependent! Try to get some points into linguistic to learn more languges. The last thing you want is to not know a specific language when that monster is coming for you.

On Oracles. If you go Life Orcale, you will lack access to enchantment spells not on the Cleric/Oracle spell-list.

Eideann wrote:

Life Oracle is the best dedicated healer.

1. Everything is based on Cha so generally more channels and spells than a Cleric

2. Enhanced Cures takes away the caps on Cure spells, Cure Light Wounds at level 20 is 1d8+20 so you will still be using it

3. Mass Heal as an 8th level spell or as my DM used to call it "when you reset all the damage I did that round"

4. Spontaneously casting means you just have to know all the Removes, Restorations etc and then cast them immediately as needed

5. Safe Curing means you don't provoke AoO when curing

6. Using Spirit Boost you can heal people beyond their max hit points

I have played up to level 20 with a Life Oracle and you can easily know every possible 'healing' type spell and still have room for some enchantment spells and in the case of my Haunted Oracle reversing the gravity in the room or telekenetically grappling casters from hundreds of feet away.

Also as a healer Reach Metamagic is your friend and is much easier to make use of as an Oracle than a Cleric.

If you are starting at higher levels, Oracles are great. But if you have to make a character from lv 1, Clerics have better spell progression.

Also while a Life Oracle is one of the best at healing, they are limited to just that role, a healbot. Short of certain roles, like a summoner-oracle, Life Oracles can't do anything else other then heal.
A Cleric, with the wide range of domains, can heal well and still be any kind of spellcaster he/she/it wants. "Bluster"? - Fire/(Elemental) Domains, "Enchanter"? - Charm/Love Domains, "Buffer"? - Glory/Good Domains. "Debuffer"? - Evil/Death... etc

A Cleric also have access to powers/spells to keep him alive on the battlefield. Teleportation/Freedom of Movement/Fly, all this could be access by taking up the right domains.

An Oracle is limited to their Mysteries. So while a Life Oracle is great at healing, it can't access the revelations of other Mysteries that give better survivability.
If a Oracle gets the cake, the Cleric gets the cake and the cherry too!


Well I just found out the person who was making a wizard might be making a healer now instead.

So for now, I'm abandoning the idea of healer (was going to anyways) and instead focused solely on enchantment spells.

Gypsy Wagon


Well why not both have healing as a secondary focus? That way neither if you is a 'heal-bot'. :)


Sandman can be a fun enchanter. I think feint works at range, oddly enough. With sneak spell, that can get nasty. Would take a while to surpass that + 2 to the subschool DCs tho


Yeah +2 enchantment, +1 caster level with enchantment.. and some other things like that.. Basically resulting in a charm person with a 17-18 DC, and +3 caster level able to work on many creatures.


How do you get the extra +2 to cl?


Varisian Tattoo

Gifted-Adept

Quote:

=Boarded in Varisia: Traveling from lands far to the

north, you likely have little experience with the jungle,
its denizens, or its strange forces. Just as the lands of
Garund are wild and exotic to you, so are you to them. This
unusualness manifests in one of two ways. Choose to gain
either a +2 trait bonus on all Bluff checks made against
inhabitants of the jungle, or treat your spells with the
mind-affecting descriptor as being +1 caster level higher
when cast against creatures and natives of the jungle.

our GMs give us a campaign trait for free, plus two others.

Since I don't need to worry about trying to heal everyone anymore, what are some other possible things I could do and keep with the varisian kitsune theme?


He lets you use serpents skull traits for JR? :-)


JR?

We are playing serpents skull.


... Whoops.

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