Maxximilius's Archetypes 2.0: More grey matter on your game!


Homebrew and House Rules

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Silver Crusade

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As promised, here is the Google Document where you will find a list of archetypes for use in your games. Comments are opened to everyone on the document, and obviously also on this thread ! :)

Right now not everything has been posted, but here are the already available archetypes :

- The Rocker (Bard archetype)
- The Growler (Bard sub-archetype)
- The Iron-Clad (Alchemist alternate class)
- The Host (Alchemist archetype)
- The Glyph Scholar (Magus archetype)
- The Gun Mage (Magus archetype)

A short description is provided in the Google Doc for each archetype.
I'll keep modifying the doc as to complete it during the following days.

Hope you'll enjoy them ! :)

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

I just wanted to say, you've done some cool work dude. I've looked at a lot of your threads and never said anything. Usually there's some criticism or other than comes to mind, and either I don't have time to pen it or someone else already has. But just in general, overall, good work. ++

The Exchange

I'm a big fan of most of your work and..... waidda second. I haven't yet seen the iron-clad. Sorry, I got distracted in the middle of writing this post. I might get back soon.

Edit: Anyway, your work is awesome, and now that I've looked over the iron-clad as well, my opinion is only more strongly enforced in my mind. keep up the good work.

Shadow Lodge

The Host is going to make it to the slurks soon, Edgar, don't worry.

Haven't seen the Growler yet, but I have a feeling I'll like it.

The Exchange

Oh wow, I completely bypassed the growler. I'm going to have to take a look at that.

@Dragonborn3, Excellent..... excellent.

Finger pyramid of evil contemplation commences.

Edit: I see. It's an archetype of an archetype?

Silver Crusade

Gun-Fu master added to the document.

Thanks for all these kind words, if people really consider these as works of quality, I may be thinking about trying to make some money out of these someday ! (Though it wouldn't stop me from posting all the archetypes in the forums at the same time...)

Also, big thanks to the people who helped me flesh out the archetypes (going to add this in the document btw) through their comments and suggestions. Some of these archetypes are more a community work than else, notably the Saboteur.


After my first read through, the Rocker seems far too good compared to most other bard archetypes.

Silver Crusade

Cheapy wrote:
After my first read through, the Rocker seems far too good compared to most other bard archetypes.

This one was hard to balance. I tried to go for a blaster-bard option, sacrificing skills versatility and special suggestion ability ; but I guess a simple fix would be to make Blazing Spotlights deal 1/2 the bard's level in damage instead. Or give a saving throw against Up To Eleven.

Yet again, it's not like Fire Resistance/Immunity isn't the most encountered thing at high levels, and any full spellcasting blaster would deal a lot more damage in the same round than the bard spending his actions to do the same...


I'll post in the archetype's thread later. Busy right now!

Silver Crusade

Edgar Lamoureux wrote:

Oh wow, I completely bypassed the growler. I'm going to have to take a look at that.

@Dragonborn3, Excellent..... excellent.

Finger pyramid of evil contemplation commences.

Edit: I see. It's an archetype of an archetype?

(Don't forget about the Elephant host with pounce. They'll never see it coming.)

Also, yes. The growler is for one of the messageboards lurker who was sorry about the lack of option for the rocker to focus purely on voice.
A soundstriker would be better at dealing precise sound damage and would have a lot more skill points ; the growler is all about getting close, and making your enemy's eardrums shatter like cristal.
Since he doesn't even need an attack roll, you can expect some heavy, burly guys with lots of charisma to come and focus on grapple, or getting some advantage from being grappled (especially thanks to Burning Spotlight). I have yet to see this being used in action in a surprising way for a bard.

Silver Crusade

Updated to nerf the Rocker's moment of awesomeness ability from Metal is Heavy.

Added Dandy Rogue.
Added Saboteur Rogue.

Silver Crusade

Errata-ed the Host.
Errata-ed the Saboteur.
Errata-ed and rebalanced the Rocker.
Errata-ed the Glyph Scholar.

Added the Ragechemist.
Added the Kenshi Ronin/Errant Swordsman.

Lots of brainy sweets.

The Exchange

Yum.

Silver Crusade

Mime Artist and Chronomage added to the Document !

Shadow Lodge

Right after I downloaded it too!

Silver Crusade

*Cackles evilishly within his synapses*


Maxximilius wrote:
You should probably dot this thread too then. ;)

(reposted from this other thread)

Done. :)

Silver Crusade

Crossbowman added to the document. :)

Aready 16 332 words to read, and dont faint yet, because it's still not finished !

Silver Crusade

Added :

- Master of Many Shapes Druid
- Braggart Fighter
- Bravo Fighter
- Gloriosus Fighter
- Cannibal Barbarian
- Titan Mauler Barbarian
- Gun Tank Gunslinger
- Trapper Ranger

And even a little additional surprise, a special one I forgot about :

- The Pistol Spade Gunslinger, specialized in Sword&Pistol fighting !

... and that is all for now.
Hope you'll like them and have a blast playing one someday ! :)

Silver Crusade

Modified the Iron Clad's Steam-Powered armor.
Added the Atom-Powered armor.
Added some new arcanas to the Gunmage.

Things that could be included to the document and/or used more professionaly :

- The Sumo (Samurai Monk)
- The Bateleur (Bard)
- The Freak Displayer (Summoner Bard)

Silver Crusade

Big update, introducing a full new Bard archetype and the appropriate special talents!

Please make a place for The Bateleur : an acrobat, roguish, fairgrounds itinerant bard !

Silver Crusade

I forgot to precise :

From now on, including the Bateleur, these archetypes have not been submitted to external opinion beforehand. While all other have got their own thread for people to discuss about when I considered they were good enough to see the daylight, these have not. Without them being marked as Red, still be cautious.

EDIT : also, precision added to the "Cheater" talent as to avoid potential abuse of the ability. The cheater talent isn't a key to auto-win a situation, only a tactical advantage that must be exploited and can be countered.


I like the bateleur. It's circus feel screams late 19th century freak show to me, and guess what time period my homebrew steampunk is based off of? I put it on my houserules page (I have a wiki for the setting now) under homebrew things that players are allowed to have. :D

Silver Crusade

Thanks, the freak show feeling is exactly what I aimed for (and you didn't even see the Freak Shower summoner archetype ;) ). I'm glad you like it ! :)

As a matter of facts, Cheapy pointed to me that the Familiar Talent already existed in UC (which I forgot), but to get a familiar with a rogue, you need two talents assimilated to magic.
But, the bard is already a spellcasting class - and the bateleur gains half as much talents as a normal rogue. As such, I'm wondering if I shouldn't put back the Familiar Talent as a special talent you may only get without prerequisites as a bateleur ; as the picture of a snake charmer, groom monkey asking for money or trained cat is really emblematic for my tastes. A nerfed familiar should do the trick.

Next big update (outside of errata/rewrite) will probably be the Sumo (glorified immovable force) or the Jester (anti-bard, debuffer).


Maxximilius wrote:
Thanks, the freak show feeling is exactly what I aimed for (and you didn't even see the Freak Shower summoner archetype ;) ). I'm glad you like it ! :)

There is a freak show attraction summoner? When can I expect to see it posted?


I think if you follow the progression of a familiar from Eldritch Heritage, it shouldn't be too bad.

Silver Crusade

Good one Cheapy, I'll make it a "Protip" suggestion under the archetype ; like the suggested builds/equipments for some archetypes which serves as a guideline on how to use them or why they exist and fill a specific role.

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
There is a freak show attraction summoner? When can I expect to see it posted?

Pretty quick if you want it so bad, so before the end of the week. I'm posting in order of my inspiration or in order of what people would really like to see, whoever expresses itself first. :)

You can already find the first draft of it as a message I posted in the Multiclass Archetypes thread, but it is only an early draft which has not received comments and is written as to work under the "Multiclass Archetypes" rules. It has both some bardic performances and an eidolon named a Prestige, with more skill points and less attacks, with every prestige being different from the other and the Freak Shower using it as the demonstration of "a yet never seen creature", the same trick freak shows used with false mermaids and others cryptozoologic forgeries - except, there, it's true.

Oh, and it's stackable with the Synthesist, because you just know you WANT to be a freak in your game (and the Host is, like, too disgusting dude).

EDIT : Also, bookmarks added for quick navigation, just click the colored name of the archetype !

EDIT 2 : Also, teasing. ;)


Dot dot dot. I love archetypes, I'll look this over later, especially given 1) everyone is raving about it and 2) you keep updating the darn thing!

Silver Crusade

wynterknight wrote:
Dot dot dot. I love archetypes, I'll look this over later, especially given 1) everyone is raving about it and 2) you keep updating the darn thing!

Well, I think if you really like archetypes you'll find some bits of sweet, tender love, happiness and awesome character concepts while reading this. :)

1) Hey, we're on the Paizo messageboards, only gourmet VIPs here, so trust your guts. :D

2) You're damn right wynterknight, you're daaamn right.

Silver Crusade

I took a first draft at designing the Freak Shower, now available on the document.
It finally became a bard archetype, as the bardic performances were finally way more important than, you know, actual summoning. Also available to compensate the summoner -> bard mechanics : the Geek (only it's fluff for now), which will allow you to play a freak and gain penalties/bonuses a bit like an extended list of oracle curses, all the while nitpicking sick alchemical discoveries and evolutions to become freakier with levels while performing as a true artist of it's own strange kind.
These two will be mini-archetypes, easy to understand and not changing much but allowing for a lot of different concepts.

I'll do so after a long night of sleep, as I can't think straight nor longer write something good in my state.

Have a good read.

Silver Crusade

Big update :

Added the Freak Shower...
Added the Geek...

... both Bard archetypes.

Beware about the last one, as you will understand with the developer's note I left in the text : it is a particular one that should be handled only if some conditions are met in your group, and if everyone is comfortable with the idea of such a character.

As it was a lot of work, with an even bigger lot of variables, there may be a good amount of unbalancing features left in the Overcome The Handicap bardic performance which I will only see after I've spent some time thinking about something else.

Hope you'll like it nevertheless !


So, I took a moment to look through the pdf I had downloaded and noticed something... I'm quoted in it! Yay!

(^-^)

Silver Crusade

That's because you're awesome !

(And because your quoted sentence makes me look awesome too. :p)

Silver Crusade

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Removed an editing mistake, the early drafts of the Freak Shower and Geek were still lying at the end of the document.

Added a special rule I'm not too sure about, but that could interest style users : Secret Techniques, emblematic special moves you can do at the pinnacle of your Style mastery.
Not all style are covered, but if the concept is popular, I may explore it further - it's just something I know I'll never use ever in a game, and thus I absolutely don't see it as a priority.

Silver Crusade

Big update to come soon, with a concept that I visually and thematically love and could be both a lot of fun, and a real tactical advantage in any adventuring group.

Teaser !

(Also, no, it's not about the vampire killer...)


Dotting. Lots here I want to peek through. Looks pretty well done.

Silver Crusade

BIG UPDATE :

Please welcome the Ballroom Dancer, a full, brand new bard archetype providing both the support spellcasting you need, and the tactical acumen of moving allies and foes alike around the battlefield to bring your enemy in the middle of hell (or unleash it straight where the enemy is) - and where your barbarian companion's greataxe will soon be.

Don't make the mistake of underestimating him : mocking this agile tornado on the battlefield may very well bring you a pounce-like death, in the form of a deadly duo that is as dangerous as a fully boosted warrior able to close the gap between you and him before even the beginning of his round.

Silver Crusade

Due to christmas, a lot of appointments, some opportunities and another project, the document will probably not be updated for some weeks. But I'll be back, like said the Terminator.

Don't hesitate to peek through, and Merry Christmas with some days in advance ! ;)

Silver Crusade

Errata-ed the Bard "Growler" Rocker archetype variant :

Major changes :

- Not a bardic performance anymore. Never was intended to be, guess it got through my vigilance.
- Growl treated as a natural attack able to attack at reach with a stacking double penalty to attack/damage, instead of the confusing "melee weapon attacking at range ?" interpretation that could previously be done.
- Deafening effect now everytime on a critical hit, instead of when rolling a 4 during a grapple, harder to land on far creatures.
- Average damage divided by 2. But it has now a critical hit, is a natural attack, and may be used with Piranha Strike, so you get new means to improve it.
- Basically, it's a light weapon that pumps bardic performance rounds to create and becomes better as the bard gains levels. Should be both better balanced and clearer now.

Silver Crusade

Errata-ing the errata :

- "Growl" attack is treated as an unarmed strike the growler is proficient with, not a natural attack. Would make this way too much trouble and potential to abuse otherwise.

Silver Crusade

BIG UPDATE :

Deemed awesome enough to deserve a place in the Maxximilius's Archetypes Document :

The Inugami (originally "Kitsune", name scrapped because used in the Bestiary 3) ninja, a cool and flavorful supernatural trickster making great use of clones, fascination and original ways to infiltrate places without being perceived.

Howl in the moonlight !

To come next : the Mesmerizer, Western version of the Inugami/Kitsune, for all people who don't want Japan creeping in their fantasy !


Max, are you French? Whenever I go to your archetype page, the Google Documents control bar is always in French. It doesn't do that with other documents. I don't consider this a problem at all, it's just curious.

I LOVE the Inugami, but I have one question. Instead of d6s for sneak attack, I give a +1 bonus to attack rolls and +2 bonus to damage rolls for every dice of sneak attack one is entitled to. These bonuses can be sacrificed as if they were sneak attack dice. I like this because it makes characters with sneak attack more accurate and precise, and able to do a bit more damage with sneak attack do to their increased ability to hit the enemy with it. How would you alter the Inugami's altered sneak attack to work with this system?


I would guess +1 / +1 flanking, +1 / +3 denied dex.

With such a system, a rogue with no feats at level 20 is going to hit more often than a fighter with the same attributes and no feats. I'm not sure if you intended that, but the rogue will get +10 to hit vs the fighter's +9 from weapon training and being full BAB.


Cheapy wrote:

+1 / +1 flanking, +1 / +3 denied dex.

With such a system, a rogue with no feats at level 20 is going to hit more often than a fighter with the same attributes and no feats. I'm not sure if you intended that, but the rogue will get +10 to hit vs the fighter's +9 from weapon training and being full BAB.

I did intend that. Getting a Rogue into that position isn't easy at all (at least in my experience), but when it's been done I don't object to a Rogue being the most accurate thing in the party. They need to shine somewhere, and they are supposed to be precision based. Plus, they still aren't going to out DPR a Fighter, even with the highest attack roll in the party in certain situations.

Silver Crusade

I am indeed a dirty french man, eating fromages forbidden in most countries inside of long shaped bread ; though bad grammar should already have betrayed my mustachioed identity since a long time ago.

Concerning the sneak attack, with your version, instead of d4 in normal situations or d8 when the enemy is flat-footed, it would be +1 att/+1 dam in normal situations, and +1 att/+3 dam against flat-footed creatures.


Awesome! I like you French people.

Thanks for figuring out how to make that work.

Silver Crusade

Also, stealth errata.

On the Clone Tsunami ability, added the following sentence : "The inugami herself is treated as an ally."

So you can flank with a clone... at the cost of reduced sneak damage, expanded ki points, and increased risk to suffer a strike. Your rogue/ninja pals will love you though.


Max, you had my hopes up. :(

Silver Crusade

Ah ! Sorry, dude, about this disappoint. :D

I know this manga, but never really caught up.
Originally the Inugami was named the "Kitsune", because I wanted flavorful concept to flesh out, but the bestiary 3 put a gun on my temple and I just changed the name for a really, really similar theme of asian mythology. :D


"Howl in the moonlight!" didn't help.

No worries though, not after the Host.

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