How much is a keep worth?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I remember there being a listing in the v3.0 DMG, but can't remember the value. There doesn't appear to be any similar listing in Pathfinder.


I gave away my copy of the Strongholder Builder's Guide a year ago, but if I am remembering correctly, about the cheapest you could find would run around 20,000 gp. That is a no-frills, 20'x20' Square Keep three stories tall. And it went UP from there. Keeps and castles aren't exactly the type of thing that can be bought and sold though. More often than not, a local noble will lay claim to it, after you've cleaned it out, of course. And the full weight of the law will agree with him.

Now, as a reward for an adventure (i.e., the Duke sends you to the no-man's land past the border to cleanse the evil from a ruined tower and then deeds you that tower and the surrounding land, charging you with its defense--and protecting his own subjects with a buffer zone) is something far more likely.

Master Arminas


Stronghold Builder's guide was a good reference to have, but was super overpriced for certain things, I know there was another thread i read a few months back that discussed this topic, if i have a bit of time later i will look through my old posts and link to it


thread 1

thread 2

hope those are helpful, not sure how much info was in them, didn't read them through again.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

O.M.G.

We just lost everything!

Our characters found themselves in an arcane university. Thinking we could sell them the deed to our keep (to use as a satellite campus or as a ruin for experiments/research) we sought out the dean. After much haggle with the eccentric man, we agreed to 5,000gp and some prestige within the academy (access to their specialists, the occasional spell cast on the party's behalf, privileged access to their private libraries, etc.)

The dean paid us in platinum, but sadly we couldn't split 500 platinum evenly between the three of us, so we went to a money changer...

...who revealed to us that the platinum was wood, not platinum, that the local academy did not have, and never had, a dean, and that we were highly unlikely to get any "prestige" or future favors from the academy.

...

...

FLIBBERTYJIBBIT!!!


Calm down! Its not like it would be hard to find the man again - he bought a freakin' castle from you (not something easy to move). Perhaps teleporting/travelling really fast back to the keep and set some nasty surprises ... =)?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

O.M.G.

We just lost everything!

Our characters found themselves in an arcane university. Thinking we could sell them the deed to our keep (to use as a satellite campus or as a ruin for experiments/research) we sought out the dean. After much haggle with the eccentric man, we agreed to 5,000gp and some prestige within the academy (access to their specialists, the occasional spell cast on the party's behalf, privileged access to their private libraries, etc.)

The dean paid us in platinum, but sadly we couldn't split 500 platinum evenly between the three of us, so we went to a money changer...

...who revealed to us that the platinum was wood, not platinum, that the local academy did not have, and never had, a dean, and that we were highly unlikely to get any "prestige" or future favors from the academy.

...

...

FLIBBERTYJIBBIT!!!

Oh come now Ravingdork, he's given you everything you need to find him with a scry spell. The bag of wooden nickels that belonged to him. Now do what a munchkin caster does best: NOVA like an adventuring day lasts 15 minutes.


Sounds like a twisted game! Good luck!


As an aside, killing a man that cheated you is probably the greatest excuse to nova on a commoner.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Oh come now Ravingdork, he's given you everything you need to find him with a scry spell. The bag of wooden nickels that belonged to him. Now do what a munchkin caster does best: NOVA like an adventuring day lasts 15 minutes.

Sorry to pull it off topic a bit but, NOVA? What's that?


Rocky Williams 530 wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Oh come now Ravingdork, he's given you everything you need to find him with a scry spell. The bag of wooden nickels that belonged to him. Now do what a munchkin caster does best: NOVA like an adventuring day lasts 15 minutes.

Sorry to pull it off topic a bit but, NOVA? What's that?

To nova means to expend your power quickly, such as a wizard casting a lot of short duration buffs before an encounter and then spending 6 of his or her highest level spell slots in the first 3 rounds of battle (3 normal spells and 3 quickened spells).


Yup, it doesn't just apply to wizards obviously, any 9th level caster can nova, and most every class with limited resources can burn through them all to win an encounter.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

We're a good aligned party with a paladin (no murderin'), only 4th-level (no nova'n), he's likely a fair bit higher (likely expecting us), and the law is on his side.

He promised us 5,000 coins and brought out a large sack of platinum. He never technically said what TYPE of coins he was promising us...


Mkay - so smiting him into oblivion might be out of question. But nevertheless, he bought the keep under false premises claiming to belong to an organization which he isn't part of, promising things he can't give you and paying with wooden coins (seriously ? shouldn't you characters notice the difference between platinum and wood?).

The lawful thing to do would be to contact the church of Abadar and plea your case - you should ask them to preform some minor magic in case the buyer won't come clean (Cool spell for this ocation). Then you hope the grand bureaucracy of justice takes care of this for you : )


Ravingdork wrote:

We're a good aligned party with a paladin (no murderin'), only 4th-level (no nova'n), he's likely a fair bit higher (likely expecting us), and the law is on his side.

He promised us 5,000 coins and brought out a large sack of platinum. He never technically said what TYPE of coins he was promising us...

Item: You have a paladin in your party

Item: Said paladin supports the 'legal' technicalities/falsehoods that would not likely stand up in any modern court in which the judge was not well bought off (particularly since the charge is counterfeiting money) that they were, in fact, paid the agreed upon prices for the property.

Inference: While I know wisdom doesn't have a minimum ability score for the class any longer, just how dumb is this paladin? There's obeying the law, and then there's being a chump! Also would not that sort of underhanded approach to payment suggest you may have aided and abetted a man whose intentions for your keep would be the sort bold adventurers would usually be the ones to sally forth and put a stop to?

While the murder may be out, the idea that hunting this mountebank down and bringing him to justice is in some way not the paladin's duty because he was the one who got scammed is ludicrous. He may-or-may-not be higher level than you, but aren’t most of the Villains a group of PCs faces off against of higher level?

The man stole your keep. Don’t let him get away with it. Even if it takes a campaign to stop him.

Silver Crusade

Ravingdork wrote:

We're a good aligned party with a paladin (no murderin'), only 4th-level (no nova'n), he's likely a fair bit higher (likely expecting us), and the law is on his side.

He promised us 5,000 coins and brought out a large sack of platinum. He never technically said what TYPE of coins he was promising us...

You don't need murderin'. You need sneakin'. He stole from you so it is right that you steal back your own property. If the paladin can't agree to that then nuts to him.

Step 1: Hire some guys to dress up and act like you guys and take a trip in the opposite direction of the keep to go "looking for the guy that dun ripped us off".

Step 2: Scry on your "dean". Find out his location.

Step 3: Get back your stuff. (but only your stuff) Leave fake deed with explosive runes and such on it.

Step 4: Let bad guy take possession of keep.

Step 5: Call in the law.

Step 6: If he defies the law...then it is murdering time.


Due to the fact that the guy obviously did something illegal (posing as a dean/misleading you in regards to the transaction) I don't think the paladin would have any problem with tracking him down and insisting on reversing the exchange. If he doesn't want to trade back, then it is time for some legally sanctioned 'enforcement' :D


Ravingdork wrote:

We're a good aligned party with a paladin (no murderin'), only 4th-level (no nova'n), he's likely a fair bit higher (likely expecting us), and the law is on his side.

He promised us 5,000 coins and brought out a large sack of platinum. He never technically said what TYPE of coins he was promising us...

That sort of linguistic trickery will work in a fae bargain, but not a court of law. Regardless of what he promised you he was acting under false auspices (those of the academy), passing counterfeit money (an extremely serious charge in any jurisdiction), and engaging in fraud.


Also he was a douche, which is more than enough moral justification for any paladin to start swinging :D

On a more serious note, legally he is on the wrong side of the law, this isn't subverting a wish spell, this is a legal transaction in which you were offered 5000 coins that were made to represent a legal form of currency (platinum), but were wood painted as such, which is not a legal form of currency at all... you are entitled to proper payment plus possible extra funds or recourse depending on local law. If the law says what he did was lawful, then add me in that game cause I would love to own pretty much every house and business in the town with a couple bluff checks.


Counterfeiting currency was an automatic death sentence in pre-modern times. It was the second most heinous crime against the state (the first being direct betrayal of the leader) because the entirety of the state's ability to function relied upon its currency being valid.

Dark Archive

Wooden "coins" are only coins if they hold value in the area past that of "trinkets". Are they a recognized coinage for that area, or any area? If not, they are not coins, and the sale is void. If they are coinage for an area, might as well go and find out the exchange value...

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