Trait questions


Pathfinder Society

Silver Crusade

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I have a couple of questions about this Andoran Faction trait:

Quote:

Hunter’s Eye: Your parents had you blessed by Erastil as

a youth, and you are a prodigy with a bow. You do not suffer
a penalty for the second range increment when using
a longbow or shortbow, and you are always considered
proficient with one of these weapons (your choice).

First, does the character have to have been blessed by Erastil (a primarily rural, LG deity) to get this, or is that just one possible reason why someone would be good with a bow in this way?

I ask because I'm making a character who comes from an urban setting and never knew his parents, so that really wouldn't fit his back story. But I've got a good reason, based on his personality, for why he focused primarily on archery as his main weapon during his training to become an adventurer. So I thought a trait related to archery would still fit.

Second, I thought the wording of the last part is a little awkward. Just to clarify, is there any difference between being "always considered proficient" and actually being proficient with the weapon? So this part of the trait seems to be the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat, with your choice of short bow or long bow.

Third, if you're skipping the range penalty for the 2nd range increment, does that mean that you get one less penalty at the 3rd or more range increment?

For instance, a longbow has a 100 ft range. Normally, that would mean -2 penalty to shoot 101-200 feet, and -4 to shoot 201-300 feet. With this trait, the -2 for 101-200 feet is ignored, but is the 201-300 range at a -4 or -2 penalty?

Although, given that we're talking about bows with ranges of 100 feet, the chances of the answer to my third question ever mattering are pretty slim.

Mostly, I just want to use this trait to get a longbow for a bard who would otherwise only have shortbow proficiency.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Fromper wrote:
First, does the character have to have been blessed by Erastil (a primarily rural, LG deity) to get this, or is that just one possible reason why someone would be good with a bow in this way?

No, that's just flavor text and one possible explanation for the mechanical benefits the trait grants.

Fromper wrote:
Second, I thought the wording of the last part is a little awkward. Just to clarify, is there any difference between being "always considered proficient" and actually being proficient with the weapon? So this part of the trait seems to be the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat, with your choice of short bow or long bow.

Yes, if you are proficient in a weapon, you are also "always proficient" unless some other effect removes that proficiency from you somehow.

Fromper wrote:
Third, if you're skipping the range penalty for the 2nd range increment, does that mean that you get one less penalty at the 3rd or more range increment?

It is only ignored while you are shooting within the 2nd increment. Once you move into the 3rd increment, all normal penalties apply.

Silver Crusade

Thanks for the quick response.

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

Mark Moreland wrote:


No, that's just flavor text and one possible explanation for the mechanical benefits the trait grants.

Interesting, I did not know we were allowed to reflavor traits in PFS.

Silver Crusade

Pirate Rob wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:


No, that's just flavor text and one possible explanation for the mechanical benefits the trait grants.
Interesting, I did not know we were allowed to reflavor traits in PFS.

I wasn't sure, which is why I asked.

I actually feel like a munchkin using this as cheap way to get longbow proficiency. I swear I didn't just look for rules I could use to optimize the character and choose this faction just for the trait!

I actually wanted to play a bard, and decided to go primary archer while looking over the possibilities, figuring I'd stick to a shortbow. In thinking of a back story for the character, I came up with the idea of making him a freed slave and putting him in the Andoran faction, with in story reasons for why he chose to focus on archery and become a bard. Only after that did I first look in the Guide to Organized Play and noticed the Andoran trait that would let him upgrade his bow from shortbow to longbow. Since it's there, I figured I should take it, but the fluff doesn't fit with my character's history.

Liberty's Edge

[quote[I actually feel like a munchkin using this as cheap way to get longbow proficiency

For a non-cheap way, you could buy Bracer's of Archery, Lesser at or after 4th level.

The competence bonus to attack does not stack with your Inspire Courage, however.

Quote:
n thinking of a back story for the character, I came up with the idea of making him a freed slave and putting him in the Andoran faction, with in story reasons for why he chose to focus on archery and become a bard.

Just be a ranger at 1st level, then multiclass to go bard. (It fits your theme, doesn't delay you much as a bard, gives a bunch of usable skills and class abilities -- and grants all martial weapons and medium-armor proficiency.)

Silver Crusade

Mike Schneider wrote:
[quote[I actually feel like a munchkin using this as cheap way to get longbow proficiency

For a non-cheap way, you could buy Bracer's of Archery, Lesser at or after 4th level.

The competence bonus to attack does not stack with your Inspire Courage, however.

Quote:
n thinking of a back story for the character, I came up with the idea of making him a freed slave and putting him in the Andoran faction, with in story reasons for why he chose to focus on archery and become a bard.
Just be a ranger at 1st level, then multiclass to go bard. (It fits your theme, doesn't delay you much as a bard, gives a bunch of usable skills and class abilities -- and grants all martial weapons and medium-armor proficiency.)

No need to change anything. Like I said, I was perfectly content being a shortbow wielding bard in the Andoran faction. Since I'm already in the faction, I don't feel cheap taking the faction trait to upgrade to longbow proficiency, which was something I didn't expect to have, and would have been perfectly content without.

I would only have felt cheap if I'd invented the back story and chosen the faction just to get this trait. That would be the munchkin thing to do.

I do think this trait is "broken", though. Traits are supposed to be half as powerful as feats, yet this one gives a martial weapon proficiency, which is a feat by itself, along with eliminating the first range penalty.


Fromper wrote:
I do think this trait is "broken", though. Traits are supposed to be half as powerful as feats, yet this one gives a martial weapon proficiency, which is a feat by itself, along with eliminating the first range penalty.

You'd be correct if Martial Weapon Proficiency counted as the equivalent of a feat. But since it's one of those things you pick up in passing, included with your class or race choice, it's really less than a feat.

A trait granting proficiency in a weapon is about on-par with a trait. This trait isn't busted; Martial Weapon Proficiency is a very weak feat choice.

-Matt

Shadow Lodge

I am inclined to agree. I feel proficiency with a weapon group is more on-par with a feat. Sadly, this is not how things are. A trait giving proficiency with a single weapon is acceptable.

Shadow Lodge

the difference between longbow and short bow is one damage on average(3 on crits) and the short bow as a bit less range, I'm yet to play in a society scenario where the range difference would have come into play. unless you make use of gravity bow the difference between this two really isn't much


Fromper wrote:


I do think this trait is "broken", though. Traits are supposed to be half as powerful as feats, yet this one gives a martial weapon proficiency, which is a feat by itself, along with eliminating the first range penalty.

Back in 3e (not 3.5 mind you, but 3e) the feat 'weapon finesse' needed to be applied to a single weapon/attack form as a full feat.

They realized it was not worth that much, and in 3.5 made weapon finesse apply to everything. It was not worth a thousand feats suddenly, but rather back on track with the value of a feat.

Likewise imho martial weapon proficiency should be proficiency in all martial weapons. Exotic weapon proficiency should either be a trait or give a second weapon if you are already proficient in all martial weapons.

-James

Liberty's Edge 4/5

Skerek wrote:
the difference between longbow and short bow is one damage on average(3 on crits) and the short bow as a bit less range, I'm yet to play in a society scenario where the range difference would have come into play. unless you make use of gravity bow the difference between this two really isn't much

I have played in one scenario, in the 7-11 tier, where the sole benefit for this trait for my Fighter (who was already proficient with both Longbow and SHortbow) came into play, someone I was attacking was clearly visible, but over 110 feet away from my character.

Of course, since my character was faster than the other guy, it wasn't that big a boon, anyhow, just let me full attack a little earlier than I otherwise would have.

2/5

Fromper wrote:
I ask because I'm making a character who comes from an urban setting and never knew his parents, so that really wouldn't fit his back story. But I've got a good reason, based on his personality, for why he focused primarily on archery as his main weapon during his training to become an adventurer. So I thought a trait related to archery would still fit.

If your character has pursued archery with a kind of passion or single-mindedness, who says that you didn't attract the attention of Erastil in someway... and rather than parents "getting you blessed", it was your desire to perfect your practice of archery that "earned" you Erastil's blessing.

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