Beginning play with a corpse companion


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Dark Archive 4/5

Hey there. I'm making a new PFS character for the first time in a long while, and I decided to go with an undead lord cleric, as it seemed like a lot of fun. I have a really good non-evil premise for the character.

Anyway, I did some thread searching and I saw that a few other people had asked about corpse companions and how they worked. To me, the ability reads pretty clearly and I have no doubt that I can animate any fallen creature with discernible anatomy in-game as long as the result doesn't end up with HD exceeding my own.

What I'm curious about is: can I begin with a 1HD skeleton the very first game I play with this character? As in, can we assume that as an undead lord he has come across some sort of corpse in the past and animated it? Or do I have to wait until something dies in the first adventure and stall the game for 8 in-game hours?

I would hope I could begin play with a companion, but I need an official ruling before I begin playing the character.

Thanks!

Grand Lodge 5/5 ****

I hope the fun is with your fellow players and the GMs as well. I'm sure you are aware that you place yourself into a gray area off effects that a corpse following you can have in a lot of diplomatic situations. Necromancy is often less accepted then even slavery.

But back to the original question - RAW right now you would lose your companion after each scenario. Spells stop at the end of the scenario and don't carry over.

The reason for this is to prevent other permanent spells - and it has been explicitly been stated before that controlled undead will disappear at the end of a scenario.

You could argue that the 'ritual' is not 'a spell'. Not sure how far yoy get with that. But the way I interpret the rules you have an issue as I wouldn't necessarily distinguish between ritual and spell - to me both is magic. You need to aquire a new corpse every single game - and spend an 8 hour ritual to generate your corpse companion.

At the same time I wouldn't like to gimp and nerf a concept. But you did ask and this is my view. It certainly would make me pretty unconfortable if someone arrives with a corpse companion on my table.

I'm happy to be overruled here or corrected. But I rather expect a discussion to start if my interpretation is right or your assumption that you can just carry the corpse over.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Thod wrote:

I hope the fun is with your fellow players and the GMs as well. I'm sure you are aware that you place yourself into a gray area off effects that a corpse following you can have in a lot of diplomatic situations. Necromancy is often less accepted then even slavery.

But back to the original question - RAW right now you would lose your companion after each scenario. Spells stop at the end of the scenario and don't carry over.

The reason for this is to prevent other permanent spells - and it has been explicitly been stated before that controlled undead will disappear at the end of a scenario.

You could argue that the 'ritual' is not 'a spell'. Not sure how far yoy get with that. But the way I interpret the rules you have an issue as I wouldn't necessarily distinguish between ritual and spell - to me both is magic. You need to aquire a new corpse every single game - and spend an 8 hour ritual to generate your corpse companion.

At the same time I wouldn't like to gimp and nerf a concept. But you did ask and this is my view. It certainly would make me pretty unconfortable if someone arrives with a corpse companion on my table.

I'm happy to be overruled here or corrected. But I rather expect a discussion to start if my interpretation is right or your assumption that you can just carry the corpse over.

By that logic, a druid would need to get a new animal companion every adventure as well. It is rather clear to me that the corpse companion stays with the player until destroyed or dismissed.

Grand Lodge 5/5 ****

Alexander_Damocles wrote:
By that logic, a druid would need to get a new animal companion every adventure as well. It is rather clear to me that the corpse companion stays with the player until destroyed or dismissed.

No - Nature Bond is an Extraordinary Ability.

Corpse Companion is a Supernatural Ability.

If you walk into a Dead Magic Zone you lose control of any Undead you have but you keep your Animal Companion.

This might be nit-picking - and RAI the Corpse Companion maybe should work like an Animal Companion. But to me the ritual seems to work more like an Animate Dead spell.

At least to me it isn't clear what takes precedence and that would leave me with a difficult decision as GM in PFS.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

The Undead Lord, as Thod said, is already living in a very gray world where commoners will have issues and gawd forbid you have a zealot paladin or a cleric of Pharasma or Sarenrae in your group.

That being said, the undead companion is not exactly like a druid's companion, nor is it technically a spell effect. A ritual, not a spell, is used to animate the remains. So by RAW, it could be argued that it would not end after the scenario. OTOH, it does use "animate" in the description.

IMO, since it is not a spell-like ability (it is supernatural), I would allow it to persist beyond the scenario.

Keep in mind, you are going to encounter A LOT of table variation with this build and that, in and of itself, might be enough to encourage you to play something else and save this character for a home-game.

Not sure it matters, could be apples to oranges, but the Summoner's Eidolon is also a ritual and it persists beyond the end of the scenario.

Dark Archive 4/5

Thod wrote:
No.

I do think my character will be fun for everyone, and I plan to hang back or send my undead minions away during social situations so as not to ruin the party's chances at succcess. I plan on playing a character from Geb, a cleric of Urgathoa, who truly believes that living is the most important thing in the world, and who takes his respect for the sanctity of life to a somewhat ludicrous extreme. Quality of life, nobody's guaranteed, but they should be allowed to live. He's a member of the Shadow Lodge because he believes the decemvirate lacks a respect for life and he works in the field to keep pathfinders alive and to preserve (or re-preserve) the lives of those we oppose. He'll always try to appeal to save the lives of those we fight (turning them over to the authorities instead) unless they too lack a respect for life and have been found killing, in which case he's satisfied to see them die and be reborn into undeath, taking away from them the freedom of choice they weren't fit to enjoy but preserving the sacred life force that is their natural right.

That out of the way, I'm afraid I disagree with your ruling. You're right with regard to Animate Dead. The Pathfinder Society rules are quite clear on that:

Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play wrote:
Any spell cast by a PC during the course of a scenario that is still active at the end of a scenario ends when the scenario does. For example, if your cleric PC casts bless on the party and bless is still active when the scenario ends, the bless spell ends at the conclusion of the scenario. This includes spells with an instantaneous or permanent duration, such as continual flame, create undead or fabricate.

However, Corpse Companion is a supernatural ability, not a spell.

Core Rulebook wrote:
Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability’s effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells. See Table 16–1 for a summary of the types of special abilities.

The Core Rulebook is quite clear that antimagic works against supernatural abilities, but that they are different enough from spells that they automatically bypass spell resistance and can't be dispelled or counterspelled. There's no way a restriction on the duration of spells extends to supernatural abilities RAW. This character would obviously make a lot more sense in a home game where Animate Dead would have its permanent duration, but RAW Corpse Companion and the Command Undead feat still persist between sessions because there's nothing that says they don't.

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Bob Jonquet wrote:
Not sure it matters, could be apples to oranges, but the Summoner's Eidolon is also a ritual and it persists beyond the end of the scenario.

This seems like the best comparison. When you consider the similarity to an Eidolon, plus the fact that it's neither a spell nor a spell-like ability, plus the fact that it doesn't count against the HD limit of other effects, plus the fact that you don't need to "control" it in the typical sense (see the description), it all adds up to "this is something different and doesn't end when the scenario ends".

Grand Lodge 5/5 ****

The Eidolon might not be a good comparison as it won't last until the next scenario. It needs a new ritual at the start of each scenario. It often needs new rituals during scnearios as well.

This tends to get hand waved.

The Eidolon vanishes once you fall unconscious or sleep and I assume if you are allowed a day job that you sleep at least once between scenarios. Also a lot of the flavour text tells you of x weeks journey on a ship.

This isn't a problem for the Eidolon - dismiss it and do a 1 minute ritual once you arrive.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Benn Roe wrote:
Rebuttal

I don't think anyone is really objecting your character's theme. Personally, I like the role-play possibilities and would love to see it...in my home game. Aside from the social challenges associated with being a priest of an evil god many view as a supporter of raising the dead and pestilence, you are going to have times where sending your companion away is not possible or practical.

This will create some challenging conditions that the GM will have to adjudicate on the fly. Many will not have a problem with it, but some will. Creating additional and unneeded obstacles to running the scenario are not really something that supports the player/GM contract.

The reason I suggest not doing this build is because there IS an issue with clarity in the rules. And that will lead to table variation. If you have followed other threads covering the use of undead "minions" you will know that there is a large contingent on both sides, and many GM's will be uncomfortable with it at their table.

If you intend to use it with your local PFS groups and those GM's are good with it, everything might be fine. But if you intend to travel to other regions and attend a lot of conventions, you are setting yourself up for a lot of conflict. The table GM will have the final say and if you are not allowed to play the character you envisioned, you will not enjoy the game.

Sczarni 5/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Good day, brother in arms. You will find many in the Pathfinder Society to welcome you. Others keep their distance or are openly hostile. It is a small price we pay, knowing as we do how Urgathoa repays those who loyally serve her.

Coleg is my corpse companion, moving from body to body as necessary. He often dwells in the body of an animal; it would seem that some Pharasmites ind it more objectionable to animate the corpses of people, than of beasts.

Sometimes, one of the venture captains assigning us our mission blanches at my power, or favors the objections of an erstwhile colleague who cannot reconcile her own beliefs with my company. In those times, I do not impose, but rather recommend another Pathfinder for the venture captain to assign to the mission in my place.

Grand Lodge 5/5 ****

Cadavrul

Thanks - great reply.

Benn

I just wanted to point out you are in in a gray area of rules here.

I think the issue ritual isn't a spell and therefore last might not carry as much weight as you think.

What about a Hex? You can use Ward (SU) and Waxen Image (SU) which can carry on until discharged. As GM I would surely insist that Hexes end at the end similar to a spell.

So the question is - would I make a different call - and in my eye bend the rules - to allow the Corpse Companion to last between scenarios.

Maybe ...

(and yes - I like the build).

Silver Crusade 4/5

While I agree with Benn Roe's reading of the rules (only spells end at the end of each scenario, and a supernatural power isn't a spell), I still think this is a bad idea in organized play.

You WILL run into players whose characters just won't tolerate the presence of undead. For instance, my cleric of Sarenrae channels positive energy at the first sign of undead, and doesn't stop until she can give the poor soul's remains a proper burial.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Fromper wrote:
You WILL run into players whose characters just won't tolerate the presence of undead. For instance, my cleric of Sarenrae channels positive energy at the first sign of undead, and doesn't stop until she can give the poor soul's remains a proper burial.

And hence why I said probably not a good character choice for PFS. Although, destroying another players property can be interpreted as, at least, jerky, if not breaking the intent of the PvP rule or the society's expectation of cooperation.

Again, this is a sensitive topic and there will be a lot of table variation from pool to pool. Swim at your own risk.

Dark Archive 4/5

Guys, I do appreciate all the concern, and I promise you I'll be cautious about which tables I try to play this character at. I own a store, and thus know all the GMs at my store because I assign them their positions. This isn't to say I'd only allow people to GM if they agreed with my calls, but it IS to say that I can easily poll my GMs about this character and just remember not to play it whenever one who disagrees with the concept is GMing. I rarely play elsewhere, and I have four other characters so that when I do I can leave this one behind. That out of the way, I'm basically just looking for official calls on this.

Rules as written, those hexes do persist between sessions. Do I think they should? Probably not, but only really because of the bookkeeping associated with persisting that sort of a thing between mods. As a matter of fact, though, I think it's pretty silly that instantaneous effects fail to persist between mods since those effects both never end AND are no longer spell effects but simply the way reality is. Undead created by Animate Dead don't stop being undead when they wander into an antimagic field, because there's no spell keeping them undead. The spell ended as soon as they were created. Likewise, the costly material components on those sorts of spells mean the undead created are essentially equipment. And I certainly would never tell a player that he or she lost an item his or her character paid for between mods.

Furthermore, the biggest reason I can see for allowing these companions to persist between sessions is to speed up the mod (both in-game and out). Is there anything more miserable than a character who literally HAS to spend time applying a template to a stat-block in the middle of the mod to take full advantage of his or her class abilities? That's the prescription you're writing if you tell a player the companion somehow disappears between sessions.

Dark Archive 4/5

Fromper wrote:
You WILL run into players whose characters just won't tolerate the presence of undead. For instance, my cleric of Sarenrae channels positive energy at the first sign of undead, and doesn't stop until she can give the poor soul's remains a proper burial.

This is a two-way street. I'd argue that your cleric of Sarenrae doesn't seem ethically flexible enough to be a team player as part of the Pathfinder Society. As Pathfinders, you're committed to plundering treasure for the Pathfinder Society, and an agent who knowingly and willingly hampers his or her teammates at the expense of the mission because of a little issue of morals would pretty quickly find that he or she had been removed from duty.

Grand Lodge 5/5 ****

Benn

Sounds good to me if you use the concept in the store and if GMs are aware of it ahead of time. Good luck with it.

Personal GM experience with Undead and Antimagic Fields:

This did cause the longest ever Rules Discussion at a table I GMed. It was an Oracle of Life that took control of 3 intelligent undead. She then placed them in walking order behind her as 'protection' and the group walked into an undead zone of magic.
So the whole problem was - the undead didn't stop to be undead. But the control did over them stopped. And they were pretty unhappy feeling dominated for the last day.
I regarded it as humorous that the player set up the perfect trap/ambush for himself. The player didn't share that humour and argued my rules call was wrong.
To me it was an oversight of a very experienced player and GM who just didn't expect that. But it showed me that a rules call that seemed clear to me wasn't to the player. At the same time there was no good taking back or wind back.
The main issue was it suddenly happened in the game and came without a warning - not for me when he controlled the undead in the first encounter - not for the player when I did an additional encounter between encounter 1 and 2 which happened to be in a dead magic zone but I didn't wanted to have them fight in the back AND in the front.

Dark Archive 4/5

To reiterate, just because I feel like my last comment might be misinterpreted, I only mean that we're all adults, and if one character is irreconcilably at odds with another character then there are two characters to blame. My desire to wield undead should be no more stifled by disagreements than another's desire to destroy undead. If two players really can't come up with enough common ground that their characters can work together, then it's a failing on both of their parts and no character archetype should take the fall for it.

And, Thod, as for your experience with undead in an antimagic field, you made the right call by the rules. It's a shame that the player wasn't familiar enough with the rules to avoid the situation or plan ahead, but when the rules are clear like that, you either live by them or you avoid having to. There's no arguing it. The fact that your player wanted the rules to be otherwise doesn't mean they were anything but clear.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Benn Roe wrote:
Fromper wrote:
You WILL run into players whose characters just won't tolerate the presence of undead. For instance, my cleric of Sarenrae channels positive energy at the first sign of undead, and doesn't stop until she can give the poor soul's remains a proper burial.
This is a two-way street. I'd argue that your cleric of Sarenrae doesn't seem ethically flexible enough to be a team player as part of the Pathfinder Society. As Pathfinders, you're committed to plundering treasure for the Pathfinder Society, and an agent who knowingly and willingly hampers his or her teammates at the expense of the mission because of a little issue of morals would pretty quickly find that he or she had been removed from duty.

The problem with that argument is that PFS has rules against being evil, not against being good. If you're going to worship an evil deity, you're going to need to play the character as truly neutral to avoid making waves. If you bring a corpse along, and a good character complains, you'll lose that argument every time.

But realistically, if you and I were playing at the same table, I'd hope you'd mention this character quirk in advance, and we'd work this out before the session begins. So my cleric of Sarenrae would never meet your character, because one of us would play a different character. For instance, my CN barbarian might think the walking corpse is weird, but would still work with it.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Benn Roe wrote:
Hey there. I'm making a new PFS character for the first time in a long while, and I decided to go with an undead lord cleric...

You would.

Gives me the idea though. Someone should make a "Zombifier" app online. Put in a stat block -> Zombie comes out.

My argument for why the Undead Lord should be able to have his corpse companion persist is one of mere practicality than of the rules. Unlike an eidolon which takes 1 minute to summon, the corpse companion takes 8 hours to make, which means that your typical undead lord isn't doing it in the field that often. It's an ability that's meant to be used before you go on an adventure, therefore it's more fair for the undead lord that you use it before you go on the mission.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Since it is not a supernatural ability, the corpse companion will persist beyond the scenario. However, any undead created through a spell, such as animated dead, do end at the end of a scenario or sanctioned module.

Dark Archive 5/5

@ Mike: are there restrictions in PFS to what creatures can be turned in to a Corpse Companion? Are players restricted to human corpse or can the whole plethora of Bestiary 1-3 corporeal creatures be chosen? Do players have to encounter creatures they wish to animate through the Corpse Companion ability?

Silver Crusade 4/5

Diego Winterborg wrote:
@ Mike: are there restrictions in PFS to what creatures can be turned in to a Corpse Companion? Are players restricted to human corpse or can the whole plethora of Bestiary 1-3 corporeal creatures be chosen? Do players have to encounter creatures they wish to animate through the Corpse Companion ability?

I'm reminded of the Order of the Stick comics, where Roy tried to stop an enemy by chopping the head off the dragon it was riding, only to discover that the dragon was undead and had enough HP to keep going without a head.

Now I'm wondering how much it would cost to get a riding dragon in PFS...

Grand Lodge 4/5

Diego Winterborg wrote:
@ Mike: are there restrictions in PFS to what creatures can be turned in to a Corpse Companion? Are players restricted to human corpse or can the whole plethora of Bestiary 1-3 corporeal creatures be chosen? Do players have to encounter creatures they wish to animate through the Corpse Companion ability?

I've talked to members of the development and design team and know which way I am leaning on this. However, I want to hear both sides of the argument. Why shouldn't we open it up to Bestiary 1, 2 and 3? Other than Bestiary 1 being the only one of the three in the core assumption, why should we restrict it to only Bestiary 1? Let me hear your thoughts.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Fromper wrote:


Now I'm wondering how much it would cost to get a riding dragon in PFS...

525 PP and 525,000 GP.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I'd like to see the available bodies for Corpse Companion mirror the available bodies for animate dead: things you can buy, and things you kill yourself. If you want a zombie giraffe, you have to buy or encounter-and-kill a giraffe.

I imagine there might be a market for such things in Geb.


Hey folks,

All of this is nice, but it does not answer the OP's main question, which is not keeping a corpse companion from one scenario to another but rather whether a brand new 1st level character can start with one.


My main character is an Undead Lord and I might throw in my 2 cents here. I rarely ever use my corpse companion because of how often I travel with good-aligned Pathfinders that would object. I study undead to better combat them, not to upset my peers.

Though being Chelaxian, I often find myself being asked by Miss Dralneen to retrieve body parts from fallen foes. More than once I have simply taken the time to animate the corpse as a companion and walk it back to my beloved faction head. So the ability can still have its uses even if not used regularly.


Enevhar Aldarion wrote:

Hey folks,

All of this is nice, but it does not answer the OP's main question, which is not keeping a corpse companion from one scenario to another but rather whether a brand new 1st level character can start with one.

It is a 1st level ability, so I don't see why not. A starting wizard has time to summon a familiar prior to the first scenario played. An undead lord should be able to spend the 8 hours to create its companion.

Grand Lodge 4/5

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata.
Enevhar Aldarion wrote:

Hey folks,

All of this is nice, but it does not answer the OP's main question, which is not keeping a corpse companion from one scenario to another but rather whether a brand new 1st level character can start with one.

Yes

Dark Archive 5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Diego Winterborg wrote:
@ Mike: are there restrictions in PFS to what creatures can be turned in to a Corpse Companion? Are players restricted to human corpse or can the whole plethora of Bestiary 1-3 corporeal creatures be chosen? Do players have to encounter creatures they wish to animate through the Corpse Companion ability?
I've talked to members of the development and design team and know which way I am leaning on this. However, I want to hear both sides of the argument. Why shouldn't we open it up to Bestiary 1, 2 and 3? Other than Bestiary 1 being the only one of the three in the core assumption, why should we restrict it to only Bestiary 1? Let me hear your thoughts.

I think the danger with opening up for additional monster ressources i evident. who knows what low level multi-headed ten-armed low level monsters are going to find their way into the game.

If we incorporate a rule, that requires the Undead Lord to create a corpse companin from remains of creatures he runs into during the course of scenarios or modules, there will be an inherent balancing factor just there. i.e. Mark and Mike decide which creatures are available to start with, and the Undead Lord wil be unable to indefinitely respawn a favored companion.

I think animating a Corpse Companion should be an in-game action only, which GMs should write down in the "Items Purchased/Conditions Removed" section of the Chronicle sheet. This will even create a whole new level of "wealth and reward" for Undead Lords e.g. "Wow! We just killed a five headed hydra!"

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I'm seriously considering playing an Undead lord but I'd prefer to keep the options limited to humans, or possibly creatures encountered on an AR and signed by the GM.

I looked at this before and I think skeletal Hydras were about 5HD, which is pushing it. Its a nice idea, and skeletal riding dogs might be fine, but including all the bestiaries would be asking for trouble. Besides which, walking through town with a cowled human skeleton is one thing, but walking through town with a skeletal hydra could really mess up the scenario.

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Michael Brock wrote:
Fromper wrote:


Now I'm wondering how much it would cost to get a riding dragon in PFS...

525 PP and 525,000 GP.

*starts saving up*

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Michael Brock wrote:
525 PP and 525,000 GP.

No problem. I'll write you a check ;-)

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Diego Winterborg wrote:
I think the danger with opening up for additional monster ressources i evident. who knows what low level multi-headed ten-armed low level monsters are going to find their way into the game.

Assuming that there are no creatures in any of those three books that we object to, there is no risk. If/when a Bestiary IV is released, if there are creatures in there, we can always tweak the wording or just not approve the book.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Stormfriend wrote:
walking through town with a skeletal hydra could really mess up the scenario.

Depends on your definition of "mess up." Many players/GM's would look at this as a challenge. Realistically, the villagers would either run away in fear of the "evil necromancer and his undead minion" or grab the torches and pitchforks. Either way, 'caveat emptor'. I think it would be a self-regulating issue.

My advice to anyone who plays an Undead Lord; table variation is wide-ranging. If you are not prepared for a GM to significantly "nerf" your character because s/he is not comfortable with undead walking through town, don't play that character. YMMV.

Grand Lodge

My skeletal companion is decked out with traveling clothes, a great big hooded cloak, and a mask to boot. I tell people he was cursed with muteness, and is a very picky eater.

Dark Archive 4/5

I had actually just assumed that beyond my starting corpse companion, that I'd be limited to things killed in-mod. And I'm fine with that. 1HD options are super limited no matter how many sourcebooks are allowed. Did anyone find anything better than an orc using Bestiary 1, 2, or 3 stat-blocks? The Ulfen Raider stat-block in Lands of the Linnorm Kings has 19 Str, and that might be the craziest it comes. I think in-mod and just the first Bestiary, or in-mod and all three Bestiaries would be totally fine.

Honestly, the best book for power-gaming a starting companion is probably the GameMastery Guide, believe it or not. Find a high-level, high-Str/Dex fighter type NPC and say that's who your companion is made from. And that begs the question, are we limited to stat-blocks from books, or the NPC stat-array, or what? Most things that would be zombified or skeletonized as starting companions are creatures with class-levels, who don't exactly have a 100% typical ability score spread. I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other about what's allowed, but I think it should be defined.

Rules as-written, there's honestly nothing stopping someone from happening across a human with 32 Str, and 28 Dex, who just happened to have been slain already, and look, the person who killed him was nice enough to leave all his magical gear intact too? What a starting companion he shall make!

For PFS it would be nice to know whether stat-blocks are where we get starting stats (and if so, does the companion begin with the gear listed in that stat-block) or if there's some point-buy or stat-array system we should be using, and any starting gear on the creature needs to come from our starting 150gp? Furthermore, if we kill something in-game and raise it, does it begin with whatever gear the corpse had, or does that gear need to be purchased after the game as though we had taken the treasure for ourself, etc., etc.? It should be less relevant at higher levels where you're more likely to want some sort of monstrous undead companion anyway, but still could use some defining.

This is actually quite complicated, and I'm torn, because on the one hand 1) a whole lot of extra rules need to be written for a fairly marginal class, that certainly won't get played all that often because it'll be tough to roleplay without breaking campaign rules, to not be totally gimped; but on the other hand 2) not writing those rules and just restricting all corpse companions to be made in-game will create a nightmare of in-game template-applying if the class is played by anyone who's not also a fairly experienced GM. If it were me, I'd probably say starting characters should use a stat-block found in one of the three Bestiaries, but need to pay for any equipment listed in those stat-blocks out of their 150gp if they want it to actually begin with it, and then from there on out, they are limited to resurrecting corpses found (or created) in-game, and it should be tracked on their chronicle sheets.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Benn Roe wrote:
GameMastery Guide

For purposes of PFS, the Gamemastery Guide is not an approved resource.

Dark Archive 4/5

I know that. I was just saying that it would be the best source of starting companions for a power-gamer. My point was that I've scoured the two Bestiaries that are currently available, and I'm 99% sure that nothing in either book comes close to what you could get from fairly average NPC stats for purposes of creating a 1HD corpse companion.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

That may be true, but technically, if an un-stated NPC was to die in the scenario and be used for an Animation affect, the GM would be wrong to use the GMG for the stat block. S/he should just reference the Bestiary listing for a standard Skeleton (or whatever).


Bob Jonquet wrote:
Diego Winterborg wrote:
I think the danger with opening up for additional monster ressources i evident. who knows what low level multi-headed ten-armed low level monsters are going to find their way into the game.
Assuming that there are no creatures in any of those three books that we object to, there is no risk. If/when a Bestiary IV is released, if there are creatures in there, we can always tweak the wording or just not approve the book.

Don't forget about templates. A giant advanced half-dragon half-fiend eagle is a 1 HD creature, for instance.

Dark Archive 4/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
That may be true, but technically, if an un-stated NPC was to die in the scenario and be used for an Animation affect, the GM would be wrong to use the GMG for the stat block. S/he should just reference the Bestiary listing for a standard Skeleton (or whatever).

Are you sure? That doesn't seem right at all. The only stat-block listed for a skeleton in the Bestiary is for a human skeleton. What if an elf NPC dies? Or an orc? We just use the generic Bestiary stats for those and apply the template? This definitely needs clarification, because every game I've ever played of Pathfinder (PFS or not) that has involved raising dead has used the actual stats from the actual creature killed to add the template to, not some generic stats. I thought the allowed source material was material allowed for building your character. In-game material is frequently not from the allowed source material list, both in terms of items that only exist in that particular mod and are granted on the chronicle sheet, and in terms of templates, NPCs, and monsters that you fight against. I didn't think anything that didn't directly relate to out-of-game character building was beholden to that allowed material list.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

hogarth wrote:
Don't forget about templates. A giant advanced half-dragon half-fiend eagle is a 1 HD creature, for instance.

*scouring my scenarios to find where that is encountered ;-)*


Bob Jonquet wrote:
hogarth wrote:
Don't forget about templates. A giant advanced half-dragon half-fiend eagle is a 1 HD creature, for instance.
*scouring my scenarios to find where that is encountered ;-)*

In the PC's back story, of course! :-)

(I'm referring to the starting companion, which doesn't seem to have any restrictions to it mentioned so far.)

Grand Lodge 4/5

We will only be using Bestiary 1 since it is the only Bestiary listed under core assumptions.

2/5

What if you buy a horse or riding dog. You get to keep that between scenarios.

Right?

Now what if you killed the creature and animated it? The spell ends every scenario, but you still have the corpse.

You could re-animate it at the start of every scenario (assuming it was never brought to zero hit points in the previous one).

Right?

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

I don't see why not...assuming that you have 8 hours at the start of the scenario to do so.

Remember though that sometimes, you are roused from your sleep (Dreng again?!?) and rushed to the Lodge. Then you need to rush off to complete your mission. No time to stop and play Zombie Jamboree. :-)


In theory yes, though you'll need to get around the body decomposing.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Nickademus42 wrote:
In theory yes, though you'll need to get around the body decomposing.

That won't be much of an issue for a skeletal companion

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harte035 wrote:
My skeletal companion is decked out with traveling clothes, a great big hooded cloak, and a mask to boot. I tell people he was cursed with muteness, and is a very picky eater.

I knew that Jestercap mask would come in useful eventually... :-)

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