Multiweapon Fighting + Flurry of Blows

[Jakonen]

I'm DMing for my group and want to create a Demi-god like character to be a recurring opponent. The Character in question is a Monk with four arms.
In Pathfinder Core Flurry of Blows is stated to replace Two Weapon Fighting for unarmed strikes and monk weapons. However in the Beastiary, Multi Weapon Fighting is stated to replace two weapon fighting for Creatures with more than three arms.

So the question is, Does Flurry of Blows override Additonal attacks provided by Multi-Weapon Fighting? Or do the number of attacks stack?

[CrackedOzy]

Jakonen wrote:

I'm DMing for my group and want to create a Demi-god like character to be a recurring opponent. The Character in question is a Monk with four arms.

In Pathfinder Core Flurry of Blows is stated to replace Two Weapon Fighting for unarmed strikes and monk weapons. However in the Beastiary, Multi Weapon Fighting is stated to replace two weapon fighting for Creatures with more than three arms.

So the question is, Does Flurry of Blows override Additonal attacks provided by Multi-Weapon Fighting? Or do the number of attacks stack?

If ability 'B' replaces 'A' and 'C' also replaces 'A', then I doubt you can stack 'B' and 'C'.

[Grick]

Jakonen wrote:

Does Flurry of Blows override Additonal attacks provided by Multi-Weapon Fighting? Or do the number of attacks stack?

You can use Flurry of Blows, using the number of attacks and the penalties in the Monk table, or you can use a normal full attack, and use the Two-Weapon Fighting style to gain an extra attack. If you use TWF, then the Multiweapon Fighting feat would apply instead of the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

Using multiple arms with weapons isn't really covered in the rules, so you'll need to do some house ruling.

The Xill has four arms, two swords, and he can attack three times with the swords, once with a claw, then bite. His sword attacks are full/full/-5. With BAB 9 that's one iterative (full/-5) and one off-hand (Full). I don't know why he doesn't get an extra claw, though.

[Breakfast]

Multi weapon fighting replaces twf but not improved or greater twf. Imo the best way to run it would be to consider level 1 flurry using mwf then higher levels with itwf and gtwf as normal.

So at level 20 your guy would flurry at 18 18 18 18 13 13 8 8 3 with this interpretation

[Bobson]

Grick wrote:

Jakonen wrote:

Does Flurry of Blows override Additonal attacks provided by Multi-Weapon Fighting? Or do the number of attacks stack?

You can use Flurry of Blows, using the number of attacks and the penalties in the Monk table, or you can use a normal full attack, and use the Two-Weapon Fighting style to gain an extra attack. If you use TWF, then the Multiweapon Fighting feat would apply instead of the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

Using multiple arms with weapons isn't really covered in the rules, so you'll need to do some house ruling.

The Xill has four arms, two swords, and he can attack three times with the swords, once with a claw, then bite. His sword attacks are full/full/-5. With BAB 9 that's one iterative (full/-5) and one off-hand (Full). I don't know why he doesn't get an extra claw, though.

A Marilith has BAB 16 (4 iteratives) and attacks of

Quote:

+1 longsword +24/+19/+14/+9 (2d6+8/17–20), 5 +1 longswords +24 (2d6+4/17–20), tail slap +17 (2d6+3 plus grab)

The general rule is you get full iterative attacks with a single weapon, and then one additional attack at full BAB for each additional weapon (multi-weapon penalties not included). I don't think I have a rules source for that, though - just observation and forum reading.

[Gruuuu]

Bobson wrote:

The general rule is you get full iterative attacks with a single weapon, and then one additional attack at full BAB for each additional weapon (multi-weapon penalties not included). I don't think I have a rules source for that, though - just observation and forum reading.

Mostly correct, iterative attacks can be with any weapon.

I also don't have rules, but I've looked them up before.

Now, I THOUGHT that flurry didn't work with other attacks but I don't see anything in the rules. Maybe there's a developer ruling...

[Gruuuu]

Gruuuu wrote:

Now, I THOUGHT that flurry didn't work with other attacks but I don't see anything in the rules. Maybe there's a developer ruling...

Hm, Flurry only calls out natural attacks.

Regardless, the creature would NOT get extra flurry attacks for having more arms.

To get the more attacks for extra arms, Grick has the right idea. BUT you also need to give him natural attacks on those arms. Slams or Claws will do. If you want to maximize the attacks, he will then need TWF, ITWF, and GTWF plus a weapon (not necessarily hand-held, but if using a hand-held weapon, remember you lose the natural attack for that arm.)

[JiCi]

You guys might want to keep the debate alive, because in the upcoming Advanced Races Guide, it will be possible to make races with 3 or 4 arms.

Personally, if Flurry acts like TWF and MWF replaces TWF for many-armed characters, then Flurry acts likle MWF for them. Yes, it might end up with 10 (4 primary + 3 secondary + 3 tertiary) or 13 (4 primary + 3 secondary + 3 tertiary + 3 quadritiery (???)), but I don't see why many-armed characters should be penalized because they must adhere to two-armed characters.

[blackbloodtroll]

How does he have extra arms, by the way?

[Grick]

JiCi wrote:

You guys might want to keep the debate alive, because in the upcoming Advanced Races Guide, it will be possible to make races with 3 or 4 arms.

There's a FAQ Request Thread for multiple off-hands/arms if anyone wishes to contribute.

[Mojorat]

There is an asura with multiple arms and flurry. The beutific one. Looking up its stats would be a good model.

[Gibbering Glyphs]

Going through all the reference material on hand, It honestly depends on whether the extra arms are considered natural attacks or off-hand. FoB, MWF, and the two weapon fighting feat tier all revolve around the ruling that the character have one primary hand and a secondary hand. All the rules list that they apply to off-hand weapon or unarmed strikes. If you didnt take any of the feats, say a four armed fighter at level 20 with 10 STR, your full attack would show as follow: Primary Hand: +20/+15/+10/+5 with your extra three arms providing 3 extra attacks at +20. This is before you add in any extra penalties from using off hands or weapon weight category penalties. All the feats from two weapon fighting allow you two get an additional attack from your off hand. If you have 3 off hands, it should work that you would get an extra attack from each offhand at every bab interval. Take same character above except making them a monk at level 20. Their Flurry of Blows during a full attack would show as: +18/+18/+18/+18/+13/+13/+13/+13/+8/+8/+8/+8/+3. That is 13 attacks in one round. I've checked this with my own thought process 5 times and have taken up my concerns with other more scholarly GMs, and this is what we have concluded from our research and debates.

[KainPen]

???????????????? almost a 2 year old thread nerco.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Yeah, we can do better.

...Why not a two-and-a-half-year old thread necro? ;)