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Have you ever met a jerk GM or played under one? I just ran into one a few days ago and he was to start grooming me to be a GM. I'm just glad that it wasn't at my usual gaming store.
I know I don't have to tell you guys this but it's an honor to GM for people and all GMs should be humble.
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Was this a PFS gm that you met at the store?
In my opinion the is a large difference between GM'ing a home campaign and society. Home campaign's can be focused by GM's motivation for larger story, as well as personal bias of the players.
Society the GM's do have a motivations for story but they are contained in a scenario.
In my opinion some GM's may have trouble adapting between the two. Placing attempts to curtail the players. For the most part society I feel society is more free. I fell the best part is there are actually more rules in Society aspects of the game that in home campaigns some people would not use. I really enjoy this enviroment where skill checks can affect the game a little more.
I am not sure how this guy acted. From personal experience what I have seen from gm'ing is most players get upset when they don't get their way. It happens time to time with myself also.
I have had another GM and friend say that I am anti spellcaster. I have a tendancy to grapple a spell caster that is near a mellee. I am not sure if that makes me a jerk GM but it isn't a personal bias. If a caster rushes into combat casting, they should realize they will likely be targeted by intelligent enemies. The same will aslo happening to a character that has amazingly high ac. After a round enemies will use aid or try to combat their CMD.
I guess reflecting on what made this GM a jerk may help as well as learn from it. GM's are not perfect moderating a table full of different perspectives and motivations can be a bit difficult at times. I have found harsh opinions will slighten given the time.
You say this was at a gaming store. While I agree with you, I also assign some of the responsibility to the owner of the store. If a GM is going to host PFS in his/her store, that GM is representing not only the Society but also the store. A store owner should make an effort to remove any jerks to avoid bad PR. So you might want to have a talk with the owner of that particular store to see of the GM's conduct was out of line.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Even at the best stores, owners don't have the resources to audit the quality of GMs. If they get enough complaints then sure they should talk to the GM. But the GM pool is often limited and telling someone they can't GM might very well mean one fewer table come game night.
Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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Every time I see one of these threads on Alignment, the first thing I think of is "Hey, Raistlin was Evil, and he was able to cooperate with the group most of the time because of a common goal... even if his motivation was selfish."
What Doug said is the truth; the rule is there in an effort to stop people from being Jerks. Most of the times that Alignment have caused a problem in any of my games has been one of two things.
1) The class required an alignment, but the player wanted to get away with not playing that requirement. "So, yes, I killed that bard. He was telling other of locations of treasures best kept out of others hands. It wasn't evil; I was protecting my race/country."
2) The player wanted to have an excuse for being an @$$hat to the other players. "I'm just acting Chaotic Neutral!"
If players would work within the simple rules that the Pathfinders follow, Explore, Report, Cooperate, some of the problems with alignment and Organized Play would go away.
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I know I don't have to tell you guys this but it's an honor to GM for people and all GMs should be humble.Likewise, players who need to spend little to no preparation to PLAY should respect the hours a GM puts in preparing a scenario.
I think part of that is that the players really don't know what a GM does.
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Every time I see one of these threads on Alignment, the first thing I think of is "Hey, Raistlin was Evil, and he was able to cooperate with the group most of the time because of a common goal... even if his motivation was selfish."
What Doug said is the truth; the rule is there in an effort to stop people from being Jerks. Most of the times that Alignment have caused a problem in any of my games has been one of two things.
1) The class required an alignment, but the player wanted to get away with not playing that requirement. "So, yes, I killed that bard. He was telling other of locations of treasures best kept out of others hands. It wasn't evil; I was protecting my race/country."
2) The player wanted to have an excuse for being an @$$hat to the other players. "I'm just acting Chaotic Neutral!"If players would work within the simple rules that the Pathfinders follow, Explore, Report, Cooperate, some of the problems with alignment and Organized Play would go away.
????? Wrong thread. LOL
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I think part of that is that the players really don't know what a GM does.I know I don't have to tell you guys this but it's an honor to GM for people and all GMs should be humble.Likewise, players who need to spend little to no preparation to PLAY should respect the hours a GM puts in preparing a scenario.
Sadly enough it ranges from lazy and nothing, to amazingly crafting ceramic tiles to represent the maps, developing sound tracks to play to, and being able to quote the scenario verbatim.
In many cases, to be able to run the scenario sufficiently, a couple read-throughs is enough. However, tabbing, highlighting, and making sure you understand any special nuances can be extremely important. Additionally, looking up any spells or special abilities that the enemies have can also be important, so you aren't looking them up in the book during combat. It can take anywhere from an hour or two, to a 8 to 12 hours to prep a scenario, depending on what type of atmosphere you want to create for your players, and whether you have a family that ties up your time or not.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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????? Wrong thread. LOLEvery time I see one of these threads on Alignment, the first thing I think of is "Hey, Raistlin was Evil, and he was able to cooperate with the group most of the time because of a common goal... even if his motivation was selfish."
What Doug said is the truth; the rule is there in an effort to stop people from being Jerks. Most of the times that Alignment have caused a problem in any of my games has been one of two things.
1) The class required an alignment, but the player wanted to get away with not playing that requirement. "So, yes, I killed that bard. He was telling other of locations of treasures best kept out of others hands. It wasn't evil; I was protecting my race/country."
2) The player wanted to have an excuse for being an @$$hat to the other players. "I'm just acting Chaotic Neutral!"If players would work within the simple rules that the Pathfinders follow, Explore, Report, Cooperate, some of the problems with alignment and Organized Play would go away.
Oops! Too many pages open. Sometimes if you have multiple tabs open, it will post to the one you are currently on! Sorry.
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I know I don't have to tell you guys this but it's an honor to GM for people and all GMs should be humble.Likewise, players who need to spend little to no preparation to PLAY should respect the hours a GM puts in preparing a scenario.
That's why I choose to just not prep at all. It's easier that way..
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Have you ever met a jerk GM or played under one? I just ran into one a few days ago and he was to start grooming me to be a GM. I'm just glad that it wasn't at my usual gaming store.
Someone's jerk GM might also be someones favorite GM. It's all a matter of opinion really.
I know I've thought certain players and GMs were jerks, but they had a home game they were happy with and liked each other.
Also, sometimes there are personality conflicts at a table, for whatever reason, and then someone gets labeled as a jerk. Which is unfair, but that's human nature.
So you didn't like the GM. Let the store owner / coordinator know and if enough people say something (or stop playing his games), he'll go away. You're going to meet people you don't like, so just live life and remember to avoid that person in the future.
I know I don't have to tell you guys this but it's an honor to GM for people and all GMs should be humble.
Honestly, there should be mutual respect at the table.
However, but I think more respect should go to the GM. The players just show up (and sometimes not even on time, if we're talking about respect). Depending on the GM, we can spend between 1-16 hours prepping a scenario (I average around 8 per scenario, sometimes more if I make paper minis), and lots of money / time spent on minis, maps, nice faction mission printouts, etc.
It can amount to a lot of time and money (time that might not be so plentiful for people with families). I think more people should respect and THANK their GMs for the effort they put into the game, to make it a fun experience for everyone. Most of the time, I don't see players thank the GM, and I think that's too bad. I make it a point each session to do so.
Back to the original question, I've never met a jerk PFS GM yet.
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Id like to know what about this particular GM made him/her a jerk, if you dont mind telling us.
Sometimes I can come off as a jerk, but I try not to.
Am I a jerk for enforcing a ruling on a rule that Im not neccessarily 100% sure on, but the player insists Im wrong on? My normal answer is that we will move on, but if they can find the rule in the book for me, then I'll believe them, and we can readdress the issue then.
Am I a jerk for being annoyed with a player who brings a new friend to play who has never played an prg before, has no character ready and doesnt have dice, and they show up minutes before the event is supposed to start? Am I a jerk for expecting that if his friend wants him involved in this, maybe he should have helped set him up ahead of time for the session? (yes, I do keep pregens with me, and extra dice, but that's beside the point).
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Id like to know what about this particular GM made him/her a jerk, if you dont mind telling us.
Sometimes I can come off as a jerk, but I try not to.
Am I a jerk for enforcing a ruling on a rule that Im not neccessarily 100% sure on, but the player insists Im wrong on? My normal answer is that we will move on, but if they can find the rule in the book for me, then I'll believe them, and we can readdress the issue then.
Am I a jerk for being annoyed with a player who brings a new friend to play who has never played an prg before, has no character ready and doesnt have dice, and they show up minutes before the event is supposed to start? Am I a jerk for expecting that if his friend wants him involved in this, maybe he should have helped set him up ahead of time for the session? (yes, I do keep pregens with me, and extra dice, but that's beside the point).
As I stated above, a lot of times a GM is seen by overbearing players as a jerk because the GM won’t allow them to be overbearing.
Usually, from my experience, if you show your irritation at these things, then you certainly can come off as a jerk, even if the irritation is justified.
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As I stated above, a lot of times a GM is seen by overbearing players as a jerk because the GM won’t allow them to be overbearing.Usually, from my experience, if you show your irritation at these things, then you certainly can come off as a jerk, even if the irritation is justified.
Unless Im having a really bad day, Im normally able to supress any facial emotions about how annoyed the situation may make me, and I do my best to keep it from effecting how I run a game once we get started.
I was just wanting to know if he/other people consider it jerky behavior to even feel that way in the first place.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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That's why I choose to just not prep at all. It's easier that way..I know I don't have to tell you guys this but it's an honor to GM for people and all GMs should be humble.Likewise, players who need to spend little to no preparation to PLAY should respect the hours a GM puts in preparing a scenario.
Keeping it loose and off the cuff -- that's how I roll as well. Although I do try to read through new scenarios once beforehand, and circle any glaring plot points.
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GMs have a lot of influence on how every one experiences the game. An incompetent GM or one with poor social skills can ruin the game for everybody. I remember to have had this happen to me (as a player) once. It was not something I would care to experince again, that is for sure.
What I have tried far more than once, both as GM and player, is to have the game ruined by players. "Jerk players" by far outnumber "jerk GMs" and they have every bit as much ability to ruin the game as any GM. Even if the jerk player is kicked out of the game, the rest of the table can be left with a lingering discomfort by the antics/anti-social behaviour of a bad player.
So while bad GMing is a genuine concern it would be of far greater use to discuss what every player around the table can do to improve the gaming experience for ALL. Call it table rules or common courtesy, by supporting your fellow players and GM rather than antagonizing them we all can make RPGs an awesome experience.
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Not knowing the issue you encountered makes it hard to really give a good response. You only had him as a GM once and said you think he was new; give him a second chance, or watch him run a table and if you feel comfortable, give him some advice. This is where I miss the old days of running RPGA events that had sheets for players to rank the GM/Player/Senarios and leave feedback. I don't recall hold many low scores as a GM and negative comments I got just starting out as a GM, but it created a way for players to feel more free to verbally talk to the GM and give advice. While I didn't like negative comments, no one does, it did help me improve as a GM. I have been considering handing out a little servey after each game when I start GMing again. This way I can use the information to improve my skills.
If players don't talk to GMs and give feedback and there are only 1-2 GMs in an area, then it makes it harder for a GM to improve. I was lucky and lived in a college town that had a large gaming organization and had a pool of about 15-20 GMs. Being a new GM running a table of just GMs is a good learning expereince, not only are they hard on you, but they really help you out and support you.
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One thing to consider before calling the Judge a jerk is to look at the situation they were under --
was it a difficult table -- scenario, players, plot line etc
If this was at a convention -- what slot were you in, if it was the last slot of the convention and they've judged the whole thing more than likely it's not that they are trying to be a jerk, their voice could be going and make things sound not right, they are more than likely tired and not as forgiving with minor things as they would have been at the first slot
Was their reaction justified? if it's justified why was it justified? Were the players being jerks? A lot of times a judge tends to respond to the tone of the players, if the players are being nasty a judge has a tendency to respond in kind.
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I agree that many people don't know all that GMing entails. This is why I urge every player to try their hand at running after they have played a bit. They gain a new perspective on the demands (knowing the rules, controlling the action, guiding the pace, listening to players, adjudicating actions, role-playing, etc) and thus respect for GMs. Plus, it makes them better players. I know not every one will be comfortable GMing or even want to GM, but it is a good experience, even one time. And maybe down the road, the seed will grow and another GM will sprout.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. It's even better when the player judges for a group of judges. Everyone has been on the other side of the table and therefore treats the new judge with respect.
I learned to judge by "trial by fire" with a whole table of players who judged several times before...
A great way to encourage great judging is to be a great player and be a great judge yourself. Or at least communicate effectively if you like or dislike what a judge is doing.
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"Jerk players" by far outnumber "jerk GMs" and they have every bit as much ability to ruin the game as any GM. Even if the jerk player is kicked out of the game, the rest of the table can be left with a lingering discomfort by the antics/anti-social behaviour of a bad player.
While "jerk players" may far out number "jerk GMs", A "jerk GM" affects everyone for as long as he's there at that location. It may be years before I would consider gaming at that store again, if ever. I couldn't say the same if it was only a "jerk player".
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You sure you didn't mean to post this in the Jerk Players Thread? Because that's what it sounds like to me.Have you ever met a jerk GM or played under one? I just ran into one a few days ago and he was to start grooming me to be a GM. I'm just glad that it wasn't at my usual gaming store.
I know I don't have to tell you guys this but it's an honor to GM for people and all GMs should be humble.
Are you trying to imply I'm a jerk player? If so, you need to get a grip. If not, I must have missed the joke.
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Not knowing the issue you encountered makes it hard to really give a good response. You only had him as a GM once and said you think he was new; give him a second chance, or watch him run a table and if you feel comfortable, give him some advice.
I spoke with another GM in my area who confirmed that he is a bit high strung.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Arizona—Tucson
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Have you ever met a jerk GM or played under one? I just ran into one a few days ago and he was to start grooming me to be a GM. I'm just glad that it wasn't at my usual gaming store.
I know I don't have to tell you guys this but it's an honor to GM for people and all GMs should be humble.
I've been thinking about this thread since it first came up. I wish that the discussion was more specific, providing the reminders some of us need to not be "that guy".
While there are jerk GMs and jerk players out there (along with jerk event organizers, jerk store managers, and jerk bystanders), there are dozens of reasons that someone might be a jerk. Some haven't had adequate time to prepare. Others are too quick to share their frustrations or become adversarial toward players. Many haven't rested or taken care of themselves properly and pay the price in fatigue or discomfort.
A few are just jerks, with no discernable reason.
What particular behavior made this GM a jerk? What did you do to tactfully help him do better in the future?
You state that GMs should be humble, honored to serve their players: I'm sure not that humble guy. It's not just the job of the GM to make the experience fun: The players should also encourage and entertain each other. I work very hard to do the best job I can as a GM and I hope that my players have a good time, but I'm only one guy.
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I've been thinking about this thread since it first came up. I wish that the discussion was more specific, providing the reminders some of us need to not be "that guy".
What particular behavior made this GM a jerk?
Okay, I'll divulge a little more.
Don't yell and scream at players.
What did you do to tactfully help him do better in the future?
I told the store owner what he did and he took care of it.
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I know I don't have to tell you guys this but it's an honor to GM for people and all GMs should be humble.
You sure you didn't mean to post this in the Jerk Players Thread? Because that's what it sounds like to me.
Are you trying to imply I'm a jerk player? If so, you need to get a grip. If not, I must have missed the joke.
His comment did seem to be directed at you. The statement you made about GM's needing to be "humble" could be interpreted as being "jerky." It carries a air of the player being more important than the GM. That the GM somehow "owes" something to the players simply for being allowed to GM for them. I don't think you meant it that way, but perception is reality, especially in this venue.
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His comment did seem to be directed at you. The statement you made about GM's needing to be "humble" could be interpreted as being "jerky." It carries a air of the player being more important than the GM. That the GM somehow "owes" something to the players simply for being allowed to GM for them.
GMs should be humble. So should players. So should the owner of the store. If you're not humble, you should reevaluate your life.
The reason that went unstated in my original thread is because what happened to me was due to a jerk GM, not a jerk player. If it had been a jerk player, this thread would have been titled "Jerk Players".
but perception is reality, especially in this venue.
I disagree. Facts are reality, everything else is what we choose to believe.
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If by humble you mean, "not arrogant," then I can agree.
If you mean "reflecting, expressing, or offered in a spirit of deference or submission" or "ranking low in a hierarchy or scale: insignificant," or "not proud," or "not assertive" then, no, I disagree.
I do not consider myself humble when I GM nor play, but that doesn't mean that I am a jerk or arrogant or anything.
Being/not being a jerk is not a fact, nor can it be determined factually. It is an emotional response. In such a case, all you have is perception as an evaluation tool. Therefore, if I "perceive" you to be a jerk, you are one in my reality.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Arizona—Tucson
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...but perception is reality, especially in this venue.
I disagree. Facts are reality, everything else is what we choose to believe.
Bob's point is that people's perceptions ARE their reality. Their perception may not always be completely accurate, but as far as they are concerned, that's reality. Miscommunication and misunderstanding happens, but we all need to consider how our messages will be perceived by those who read them.
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If by humble you mean, "not arrogant," then I can agree.
If you mean "reflecting, expressing, or offered in a spirit of deference or submission" or "ranking low in a hierarchy or scale: insignificant," or "not proud," or "not assertive" then, no, I disagree.
This is getting ridiculous.