Taking all the information in Blue Star's posts on face value I have to agree with him. If he has spoken to the player of the oracle and explained mechanically why it's better for the ninja to be using this item and she still disagrees then I think she is being petty. The very idea that one person should be demanding an item that they aren't able to use (even if they feel that roleplay trumps common sense) certainly makes me cringe.
With that said, if the Oracle's player wants to spend a future feat gaining proficiency in the sunblade then I would happily hand it over when she has done so.
Whether it annoys you enough that it's destroying your ability to enjoy the game, that a different issue, especially since you're entered into a fairly obviouse impasse.
Like I said: I hate arguing and she's constantly bringing it up. She's also threatened to stop healing me for it at one point, which is rather foolish, I'm an assassin (sorta, I'm just a ninja, but one of their things is still being an assassin), I kill people, people I don't like, and I'm starting to not like her. She doesn't get that. This is literally where this has taken us, I don't like it, but given the option between myself and an irrational oracle, I'll do as I've always done: picked me.
I didn't start it, but I will be the one to finish it, it doesn't make me happy, and in fact it pisses me off to no ends that she would pitch this much of a fit over an item she isn't even going to use that often.
The barbarian in our group, who left so it's basically just the 3 of us until our 4th player makes another character, said he'd kill me in return, I told him he wouldn't get the chance. He has to sleep some time, or I can just find a situation when he's weakened, and take him out then.
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Whether it annoys you enough that it's destroying your ability to enjoy the game, that a different issue, especially since you're entered into a fairly obviouse impasse.Like I said: I hate arguing and she's constantly bringing it up. She's also threatened to stop healing me for it at one point, which is rather foolish, I'm an assassin (sorta, I'm just a ninja, but one of their things is still being an assassin), I kill people, people I don't like, and I'm starting to not like her. She doesn't get that. This is literally where this has taken us, I don't like it, but given the option between myself and an irrational oracle, I'll do as I've always done: picked me.
I didn't start it, but I will be the one to finish it, it doesn't make me happy, and in fact it pisses me off to no ends that she would pitch this much of a fit over an item she isn't even going to use that often.
The barbarian in our group, who left so it's basically just the 3 of us until our 4th player makes another character, said he'd kill me in return, I told him he wouldn't get the chance. He has to sleep some time, or I can just find a situation when he's weakened, and take him out then.
So you would end the campaign over a sword......
Wow, seriously man, you have problems.
I am curious tho, what did you come here for? are you planning to show this to the oracle? Or did you just want a bunch of "ata boy"s?
I was sorta with you till that last post. now count me on team oracle.
So you would end the campaign over a sword......
Wow, seriously man, you have problems.
I am curious tho, what did you come here for? are you planning to show this to the oracle? Or did you just want a bunch of "ata boy"s?
I was sorta with you till that last post. now count me on team oracle.
One character dying doesn't end the campaign, even if it's the healer, also: I'm just reacting to her threats. A TPK ends the campaign, which is what we risk if I hand over the sword.
No, I asked for advice, which you aren't helping with.
Why are you with the Oracle? She's threatening to kill me first, in case you didn't catch it. Not healing=killing, when the person in question is the one standing on the front lines.
For those backing up the Oracles RP reasons would you give the same backing if it was a worshiper of a fire god and simply a +1 flaming weapon?
I don't know the whole story but if the party hasn't had time to sell loot to make a WBL balance (kind of an oxymoron anyways.) and your being swarmed by undead it makes since to go to the man who can actually save the parties life with it.
And for who ever said let the oracle use the aoe ability. Its once a day and only affects things weak to sunlight which doesn't include Mummies and the oracle should know this.
For those backing up the Oracles RP reasons would you give the same backing if it was a worshiper of a fire god and simply a +1 flaming weapon?
I don't know the whole story but if the party hasn't had time to sell loot to make a WBL balance (kind of an oxymoron anyways.) and your being swarmed by undead it makes since to go to the man who can actually save the parties life with it.
And for who ever said let the oracle use the aoe ability. Its once a day and only affects things weak to sunlight which doesn't include Mummies and the oracle should know this.
We had a chance to sell our spare items once at level 10, we tried balancing the WBL there, but the GM shot us down pretty hard, for roleplaying reasons (as well as balance reasons) believe it or not, the city we got to was being attacked by a vampire, so no one trusted anyone from the outside, as apparently the Vampire had figured out a way to survive in sunlight for brief periods.
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So you would end the campaign over a sword......
Wow, seriously man, you have problems.
I am curious tho, what did you come here for? are you planning to show this to the oracle? Or did you just want a bunch of "ata boy"s?
I was sorta with you till that last post. now count me on team oracle.
One character dying doesn't end the campaign, even if it's the healer, also: I'm just reacting to her threats. A TPK ends the campaign, which is what we risk if I hand over the sword.
No, I asked for advice, which you aren't helping with.
Why are you with the Oracle? She's threatening to kill me first, in case you didn't catch it. Not healing=killing, when the person in question is the one standing on the front lines.
Threatening to kill each other's characters is moronic behaviour of the highest order. It's time to change games.
Threatening to kill each other's characters is moronic behaviour of the highest order. It's time to change games.
If this campaign wasn't nearly over, I'd already be gone, but I've stuck around for this long I might as well finish it up, it's not often I get to see a campaign through to the end.
I fully intend to never play with her ever again, this is three times she's threatened to kill me.
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Rocks fall. Everybody dies. Your bodies are not found for *roll, roll, roll* 2000 centuries.
Collective punishment? Good call...
You claim you don't meta game but then won't let the Sun Oracle have the Sunblade because she is not proficient in it.
How is that metagaming? Do you know what metagaming means?
"I want that sword" "I'm a swordsman. Do you have any training with swords?" "Not in the least" "Then I'll hold on to the sword in order to keep our enemies from killing us all."
Not metagaming.
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I am startig to get why you get people that leave this game after a session or two, taken from what you are saying your character is nothing like neutral good, someone not wanting to heal you deserves to die ?!
It seems to me you are using your fellow gamers as a doormat, sorry if I get the wrong impression.
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We only heard one side, lack the whole picture, can't know for sure what's going on, so this is all contingent on the assumption that what we have is the proper story. But here goes:
We have here one party in a huge big death trap. One of the characters is two-weapon-fighting character, right now with two good weapons to fight in his usual style. Also, we have one walking band-aid who could, right now, use none of these weapons, is apparently not really made for mêlée, and never goes to the front lines, anyway.
In regards to this sun blade, the logical choice and the one that will maximise party survival is to let that ninja have both the adamantine katana and the sun blade. Giving it to the oracle would mean the front-line fighter would be less useful, and, at best, the weapon would die of boredom in that scabbard. (Turning it into a scimitar won't really help unless that character has taken weapon proficiency in it. Oracles aren't proficient in scimitars, even if they worship Sarenrae. Only clerics get extra weapon proficiencies, and since oracles aren't tied to deities, it wouldn't make sense, anyway). At worst, the squishy healer would get battle crazed and stop doing her job (healing) in favour of getting herself killed in the front lines.
And if you weigh "roleplay" considerations over survival matters, in a dangerous dungeon, you will die deservedly.
Plus, "I'm a fire oracle of the Sun goddess, it's a sun sword, I should get it" ? Invite me into your game. I'll play a priest of Abadar, which would mean all gold should go to me. Or, better yet, a priest of Norgorber, god of greed. Everything should go to me, then.
I actually saw something like this. Well, indirectly. The guys playing in that campaign told me about it. One min-maxed powergaming character was "greedy", so the player felt justified in taking all the treasure. This killed the campaign, or contributed to it.
Plus, giving up valuable tools of survival because someone throws a fit? And that's supposed to be mature? I hope you never have to raise children. Teach them that they only have to cry to get what they want, and they'll be insufferable.
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Give the Oracle the sword. Then hang out next to the oracle constantly so she has a good chance to put her nifty new deity sponsored weapon to good use.
@Blue Star: give the blade to the oracle. It's the right thing to do in-character. You fight undead all the time? Well no problem, from the sound of it you are already well equipped to cope with undead well. Ask the oracle to lend you the blade when you face *real* undead (meaning boss fights). A couple of mummies in the next room don't constitute a sufficient threat to desperately need a Sun Blade or be TPK'ed.
Also, keep in mind that the oracle can easily get proficiency in any number of ways (not least of which is buying proficiency via an ioun stone).
Or. Alternatively. At level 13, take 1 level of cleric of Sarenrae.
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@Blue Star: give the blade to the oracle. It's the right thing to do in-character. You fight undead all the time? Well no problem, from the sound of it you are already well equipped to cope with undead well. Ask the oracle to lend you the blade when you face *real* undead (meaning boss fights). A couple of mummies in the next room don't constitute a sufficient threat to desperately need a Sun Blade or be TPK'ed.
Also, keep in mind that the oracle can easily get proficiency in any number of ways (not least of which is buying proficiency via an ioun stone).
Or. Alternatively. At level 13, take 1 level of cleric of Sarenrae.
One the oracle has had 4 levels to get prof. from what we were told and two Cleric of Sarenrae still doesn't give prof.
I am not punishing anyone. I don't control your game.
You said it as though you did control the game, not once, but twice. The implication is that, were you the GM, that's how you would have ended the argument, very mature by the way, and as such you would be punishing the summoner player, who's faults are being a lazy caster and not roleplaying all that well, and the other player whose only faults are being unlucky and a little dumb (I am okay with the guy, he's just a little dim, I try to help him, because I feel I should), which has gotten 3 of his characters killed.
You also have provided absolutely no advice with which I can take into consideration, which makes you worse than useless to this thread, ergo I reported you, and was polite enough to let you know. You seem to be actively trying to provoke me and it doesn't work that easily, she's gotten under my skin through sheer perseverance, constantly going on about it for months now, but you will not, because you are a lot easier to ignore than someone I have to deal with in real life, on a regular basis.
This is the last time I will say anything to you in this thread, I'm not even going to take your advice into consideration at this point.
@lorekeeper: That's amusing, I'd probably take a level of paladin of Sarenrae if the GM had allowed me to, though I'm a lot more likely to become an Inquisitor of Sarenrae, it's a lot more thematically appropriate to my character I think. Plus, I do dig the Inquisitor. We just made 12th, and I haven't actually elected a class for it.
(Turning it into a scimitar won't really help unless that character has taken weapon proficiency in it. Oracles aren't proficient in scimitars, even if they worship Sarenrae. Only clerics get extra weapon proficiencies, and since oracles aren't tied to deities, it wouldn't make sense, anyway)
Just a point of order: Inquisitors also get weapon proficiency with their deity's favored weapon. It has no relevance to the topic really, but still worth mentioning, IMO.
Oracle with the Battle mystery can take the Skill at Arms revelation to gain proficiency with all martial weapons and heavy armor. Again, probably not relevant to the oracle in question, I suppose, since she seems to have fire mystery.
I think that there are three people at fault here.
The ninja is holding onto items that he doesn't even use and it makes him look like he's overpowered.
The oracle is intentionally making dumb decisions that threaten the party's life.
The GM isn't handling treasure properly.
I think that there are three people at fault here.
The ninja is holding onto items that he doesn't even use and it makes him look like he's overpowered.
The oracle is intentionally making dumb decisions that threaten the party's life.
The GM isn't handling treasure properly.
Nonsense, everything I have, I use, it's why I survive when other people with bigger hit die have flopped over time and again. Well... okay, I don't use all of those ranged weapons I have, but let's be fair, the best one is a masterwork composite shortbow (+3). Though, I might still seem overpowered, part of that is my character's wisdom and intelligence, which stems from me rolling (freakishly) well.
The GM is trying to keep us from getting too many items, because he firmly believes that items can break the game, and it doesn't help that one of the players keeps dying, not intentionally, and leaving us the gear they came in with.
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The Oracle seems to be an oracle of life - from what i gather - being a heal bot and all.
Have a look at the cleric/oracle spelllist - it's made for combat buffing - most of it personal. So the cleric is tired of being a walking band-aid? Who wouldn't be? Give her the sword - once she tries to hit things with it she will either decide to get a weapon prof + cast a spell of to to make her semi competent in combat - Smite Abomonation should work in an undead heavy setting - or borrow it to you. And the party have an extra asset instead of a healbot - which is genereally know to be an ineffecient combat role...
The Oracle doesn't want the cold blooded assasin to have what she considers to a a holy sword from her God? The assasin that is treating her, because she doesn't want to heal him? If you have all the loot and don't want to share - I would ask you to go buy a healing wand, or pay for healing untill you were willing to share...
How did you get rid of the Mummy's rot you mentioned? If the Oracle had anything to do with it - She saved your life - let her have the relic of her faith!
@ainslan if the groúp had spread their wealth perhaps more of them would have made their save :-)
The Oracle seems to be an oracle of life - from what i gather - being a heal bot and all.
Have a look at the cleric/oracle spelllist - it's made for combat buffing - most of it personal. So the cleric is tired of being a walking band-aid? Who wouldn't be? Give her the sword - once she tries to hit things with it she will either decide to get a weapon prof + cast a spell of to to make her semi competent in combat - Smite Abomonation should work in an undead heavy setting - or borrow it to you. And the party have an extra asset instead of a healbot - which is genereally know to be an ineffecient combat role...The Oracle doesn't want the cold blooded assasin to have what she considers to a a holy sword from her God? The assasin that is treating her, because she doesn't want to heal him? If you have all the loot and don't want to share - I would ask you to go buy a healing wand, or pay for healing untill you were willing to share...
How did you get rid of the Mummy's rot you mentioned? If the Oracle had anything to do with it - She saved your life - let her have the relic of her faith!@ainslan if the groúp had spread their wealth perhaps more of them would have made their save :-)
Yeah, she's an oracle of life. I've been saying "no" for months now, she's not taking it for an answer, she's going to take the proficiency, and she's going to charge into melee, get killed, then we all die. I'm not going to change my answer. She also hasn't done a very good job about selecting her spells, she had to switch spells in order to save her own life, saving me was a bi-product of doing so, because she also got mummy rot
If we are going to get into who saved who, then I've saved her a lot more times than she's saved me. Every time we get into combat, I theoretically save her life, and she doesn't always save mine, in a good combat, I will take almost no damage. To make things worse, she's gotten herself into situations where I had to take time to feed her potions, because she had done what she intends to do with this weapon: get up in the bad guy's face, and flail ineptly at it.
Bullocks. if a character dies, if needs be you pay for his resurrection using his loot if needs be, or you send his effects to his heirs,or they go to a successor. The permanent loss of a player character is not open loot season for the rest of the group. If you keep losing party members the way you describe, perhaps you're not the great "tank" you claim to be.
The GM is trying to keep us from getting too many items, because he firmly believes that items can break the game, and it doesn't help that one of the players keeps dying, not intentionally, and leaving us the gear they came in with.
Counter-bullocks. I'm not lawful good and more importantly, I'm in the middle of the desert weeks away from any town. Sure, I'll send them back, when I get the chance, but that chance hasn't arrived yet, and I'd actually like to survive long enough for that chance to arrive. Letting that equipment languish in the portable hole is probably the single worst way I can do that.
[Counter-bullocks. I'm not lawful good and more importantly, I'm in the middle of the desert weeks away from any town. Sure, I'll send them back, when I get the chance, but that chance hasn't arrived yet, and I'd actually like to survive long enough for that chance to arrive. Letting that equipment languish in the portable hole is probably the single worst way I can do that.I'm not talking about your character's alignment. I'm talking about some of the cardinal rules about being a decent player, one being not striking up such a prima donna attitude about your role in a group.
I'm talking about having a TPK in a huge temple complex, in the middle of the desert, that is all owned by one wickedly bad necromancer, which is part of the reason we are out here. Then no one gets to go home, all because none of us picked up the gear from our fallen comrades.
Last time I checked it was called Pathfinder Role Playing Game...
If you think Pathfinder is all about mathematics or optimization, you should probably just play a board game or warhammer where you don't have to be bothered by annoying Role Players.
You're right, that's why I have yet to bring math into this, and I've been ducking the WBL questions.
I'm roleplaying a character who wants to adventure, but doesn't want to die in the process, not without a way of coming back, and I can't rely on the Oracle not dying immediately after my character, thereby making a triumphant return impossible, especially where we are currently.
Warhammer players are the worst, I'd gleefully take an argument over a magic item over most of them any day. I did play Fantasy and 40k, but I decided it wasn't worth my time or the exorbitant amount of money that it takes to play those, plus I was sick of Marinehammer. I currently play Malifaux and it's a much better game.
Unlike a lot of people, it seems, I play many game systems, and I understand about 2 dozen different systems, roleplaying and tabletop, I don't have all their rules memorized, but I know how to play in them.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I'd add my cheer but it's my experience a group that has gotten to this pass isn't going to change out of it. Adventuring groups either argue about treasure all the time, or they never do. (Or in some cases I've seen players actually push treasure on to others who never claim anything)
I haven't really been in a group that argues over treasure a lot. The only person we had who was greedy and argued over treasure we booted from our group.
ON a side note, it's been my experience that people who come to the internet to solve a problem with the person sitting in the chair next to them don't listen to common sense. So instead of wasting more time here this thread is destined for the phi pile.
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So? You think that risk is something special? In a properly challenging adventure the TPK is a possibility for any party, at any time. Which makes it that much more important to make the play a group effort, not a "star" show.
When I can reduce that risk, yes I think it's pretty freaking important. I'm not the star of this show, no matter what you think, I don't know if you caught this, but I've already said the Summoner has me beat in pretty much every way, so I'm pretty darn sure he's a lot closer to being the "star" than I will ever be.
...I'd gleefully take an argument over a magic item...Clearly.
Ultimately, someone in your group needs to show a little maturity and give up the weapon. Either you are going to step up or she is. Arguing on the interwebs isn't going to fix this.
I was asking for advice on how I can resolve this, a discussion is a very different thing from an argument, I consider the vast majority of this a discussion, and some very good ideas (which I will have to think about) have come up.
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blah, blah, blah
Warhammer players are the worst, I'd gleefully take an argument over a magic item over most of them any day. I did play Fantasy and 40k, but I decided it wasn't worth my time or the exorbitant amount of money that it takes to play those, plus I was sick of Marinehammer. I currently play Malifaux and it's a much better game.
Unlike a lot of people, it seems, I play many game systems, and I understand about 2 dozen different systems, roleplaying and tabletop, I don't have all their rules memorized, but I know how to play in them.
Sorry OT but...
How is Malifaux? What is the outlay like? My brother keeps trying to get me into 40k but I don't want to spend so much either. Also I hate painting. I bought their new card terrain for general terrain use (I used to make a lot of the WWG paper stuff).
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Simply stand next to the Oracle, always. In combat do not move from her side. She wants a a frontliner's weapon, force her to be a frontliner. Get the summoner to stick with you also, this lady needs a lesson about the dangers of close-up combat and if she refuses to see reason then wait until combat gets close and just back away, leaving her to fend for herself. If she dies, loot the sword and move on.
I don't believe she is the only one at fault but the party dynamics need to be preserved and a frontline fighter(s) MUST have their choice's of weapon from treasure, especially when you can't conveniently pop into a city and sell/buy whatever you want.
Simply stand next to the Oracle, always. In combat do not move from her side. She wants a a frontliner's weapon, force her to be a frontliner. Get the summoner to stick with you also, this lady needs a lesson about the dangers of close-up combat and if she refuses to see reason then wait until combat gets close and just back away, leaving her to fend for herself. If she dies, loot the sword and move on.
I don't believe she is the only one at fault but the party dynamics need to be preserved and a frontline fighter(s) MUST have their choice's of weapon from treasure, especially when you can't conveniently pop into a city and sell/buy whatever you want.
We actually have already tested this one, rather unwillingly back at level 9, when we ran into some cleric/monks. They saw her and gunned her for her. She makes a poor melee combatant, between not being able to hit, and simply not being able to actually attack because she was healing, she nearly died (again), and I saved her (again).
Apparently the lesson did not take at all.
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While we can't know both sides of the story, I'd like to address one of the back and forth arguments here.
That the Oracle has a "RP" reason to want the sword shouldn't be taken for a given. It's a Sun Blade -- the sun part evokes a RP reason for the oracle to have it, but the "blade" part does seem heavily weighted toward the front line fighter taking it. And I'd have no problem with the Oracle building her character around being a front-line fighter with a sun blade, but from what the OP said the Oracle isn't built for it at all. Lacking proficiency isn't the only reason she's ill-suited to having it. If, as we presume, she worships Sarenrae or another sun god, then her god would be more concerned with the undeads getting beaten down than with who's actually doing the beating.
Maybe it did't start this way, but it seems like a completely petulant argument on both sides at this point. If the Ninja has been as effective as he says, then his suggestion that he will immediately die if not given the Sun Blade is quite overwrought. The Oracle, conversely seems to be stuck in a temper tantrum that basically consists of "ME SUN PRIEST WANT SUN BLADE!" without giving any more thought to it.
This level of optimization IS role playing -- "my role is to stab things, I want to be better at it." Is not the same as munchkining a level of an unrelated class to get some obscure bonus.
To me the Oracle wanting the Sun Blade is 1 step better than a priest of Nethys holding on to an arcane spellbook instead of the Wizard because of the logo on the cover.
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For me being good with my group trumps any concern over a sheet of paper and the shinies it represents. A group that dies together as accomplished more when they go together in a group effort side by side than those whose victory was accomplished by marginalising the other players' participation.
But then again your campaign seeks to reek of heavy handedness. Yours in your attitude towards your fellow player, your GM's with his missions delivered by bag carrying Angels who levy "succeed or die" geasea on your group.
In the end, your resolution of this debacle will not be found here. We are not your judges, nor your jury. Nor are we your enablers. Because this is a problem that's not a matter of dice,or rules mechanics.
Ooh that sounds much better than all the crap I wrote. I wish I could be so succinct. *shakes fist*
@MyTThor: before this last session, when the player who has a tendency to die, made a samurai with a +3 katana (which we joked about him providing me a new weapon, we didn't mean it seriously, in fact I was hoping to have another reliable melee combatant, sadly not), I was using a masterwork Katana in my main hand, so up until last night, I had a very powerful weapon, and a well-crafted mundane weapon. The axe I didn't use unless we were about to run into a golem of some sort.
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@MyTThor I really agree that the Sunblade is best for the ninja. It lets him use a bastard sword TWF because it acts like a short sword. Based upon descriptions the oracle is being really unreasonable. But other information provided by Blue points to dynamics in the group that are generally dysfunctional. If we take Blue's claims of being the long suffering victim at face value there are still serious problems with the game and group.
That is why I propose the Rocks Fall Solution (tm).
... but I've already said the Summoner has me beat in pretty much every way, so I'm pretty darn sure he's a lot closer to being the "star" than I will ever be.
We might be on to something there... I don't know the Summoner so well, as I haven't looked at them since the playtest, but can't some types of Eidolon use weapons? Is yours the kind that could? If so, give the Sun Blade to the Eidolon, who will make an even better use of it! I'm sure King Solomon would share my advice...
Now, more seriously, as for solution, are you far from gaining a level? Would the DM be opposed to you taking Leadership as your next feat, and taking a healer as a cohort? Maybe he could be teleported him, or you could save him from some dire situation... That would allow you to effectively ignore the Oracle without threatening to kill her.
Which brings me to my next point: Her threatening not to heal you is far from the same thing as you threatening to actually kill her. Not at all. Even tough the characters are in a fantasy world doing a dangerous quest, and there is quite a difference in context, let me use the real world as a parallel: Should you actually decide to kill the Oracle, your action would be murder, plain and simple. Her not healing you would merely be failure to provide assistance to a person in danger, something that is not even penalized most countries (including the US with some exceptions). Even tough the context is different here, those two things absolutely do not share the same level of gravity.
Also, I strongly doubt she'd actually stop to heal you. Indirectly provoking your death would certainly lead to hers soon after, and surely she can see that. As such, if I were you I'd call her bluff. Silently. Just don't provoke her by doing so in her face, as doing so might make her tilt enough for her to make good on her threats, humans being generally driven by their monkey brain and all. Simply refuse to hand over the sword, or agree to give it to her once you finish the Quest.
In short, killing her or threatening to kill her is NOT an option.
At the very worst, I guess you could try to evaluate the dangerosity of a situation, and when you find an enemy that would be over her head but not yours, give her the weapon and politely invite her to go kill the thing. When she dies and you don't, grab it. THAT would be the equivalent of the threats she's doing you. It's still a jerk move, but at least it's not outright murder.
......
did she threaten your character first??
if she did, then tell her this, the sun blade is like the holy avenger.
you take an alignment hit with that threat and if she wants it for RP reasons.... well btw whats her alignment??
its a sunblade and she worships a sun god... not a good arguement one way or the other.
I can be LN and worship sarenrae and would take a -1 to hit and all for it.
still a oracle of the sun godd and all but I would be unable to use that weapon at -5 to hit, both with not being proficient and and for not being good aligned.
same goes for you.
bodily harm will result in an alignment hit.
not an option.
I had overlooked that. Yet another reason not to resort to violence. OR even being manipulative and indirectly causing the other character's death. Both way of actions can not be defined as good.
Heck at this point as a GM I would SOA the thing and be done with it.