Goblin Squad Member
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Here are the results from Community Survey #1
The reason I'm posting this now is because the free service to access the results will be expiring soon.
Links to screencaps of survey results:
Feel free to discuss the results and suggest any questions you'd like to see in a future survey.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not a fan of the "Holy Trinity" system: 72%
That speaks wonders.
Not much else is terribly surprising. Lots of explorers and character customization is very important to those here.
I too hate the Holy Trinity system...
I like options - there should be no 'perfect' setup for every instance (such as 2 DPS, 2 Tanks, 1 Healer, 1 other)
This has always been one of those things that drove me nuts about several MMORPGs that I have played - if you weren't ideal, you just couldn't find a group that would play with you.
I would love to see the games play tested with a variety of combinations - i.e. all fighters, all rogues, all clerics, all wizards etc. and various mixes. It should be possible to be successful with each method, though a different experience depending on how it is played.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm surprised at how many would like to see open sea sailing. I wasn't expecting that, but I do think it would be awesome - I had it on my wish list. Even better - make a ship available as a housing option...Open sea sailing is awesome, but without certain things in the game (either an explicit radar map thing or the ability to use starcharts effectively) you're going to have a very difficult time actually getting where you want to go.
That and there aren't many oceans in the River Kingdoms.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm surprised at how many would like to see open sea sailing.
The question was posed as "select all that you would like". So there was no tradeoff to picking Sailing.
If the survey had included "burrow through the earth", it probably would have gotten the same support.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Question #19 was the biggest surprise for me. It sounds like pretty much no one here likes end-game raids. This tells me that we probably don't have a lot of hardcore MMORPG players participating in this forum.
Your perception and relationship with MMORPG games frightens me. It frightens me because your right. I feel like the marooned Japanese pilot on an island somewhere in the Pacific, thinking the war is still ongoing.
I've played MMORPG games since their popular inception and I've never cared so little for a game feature than that of end-game raiding.
Once upon a time, the whole MMORPG market would have agreed with me. Next thing you know, a number similar to that of the population of Belgium thinks I'm stupid.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That and there aren't many oceans in the River Kingdoms.I'm surprised at how many would like to see open sea sailing. I wasn't expecting that, but I do think it would be awesome - I had it on my wish list. Even better - make a ship available as a housing option...Open sea sailing is awesome, but without certain things in the game (either an explicit radar map thing or the ability to use starcharts effectively) you're going to have a very difficult time actually getting where you want to go.
True - but I took the phrase "Open Sea Sailing" to mean that, in general, you could sail a boat on a body of water. I just took a look at the map of the River Kingdoms Region (p. 164 in "The Inner Sea World Guide"), and I'm imagining how cool it would be to sail the rivers from place to place, as an additional option to running / riding.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Question #19 was the biggest surprise for me. It sounds like pretty much no one here likes end-game raids. This tells me that we probably don't have a lot of hardcore MMORPG players participating in this forum.Personally speaking, it's because I don't WANT an endgame. I want a game, with the same general environment from start to finish. I don't want to have to 'level' in order to reach the 'endgame.'
In essence I want a sandbox, which is exactly what Goblinworks has promised. The partial themepark stuff could be cool, so long as its inhibiting to early sandbox play.
Okay, what if we replaced "end-game raiding" with "large group challenges that can only be completed by characters who have accumulated a significant level of skill over the course of their careers?"
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Goblin Squad Member
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That could be cool, so long as there was no pressure to reach those challenges.
Especially if you can attempt those 'large group challenges for high skill characters' with a huge group of moderate skilled characters.
As I said in another thread. Lineage 2 had raids and dragon bosses down extremely well. They were persistent, repeatable, open to the whole server and characters of varying level and difficult. It was a battle of prestige than that of something requiring participation for progression; the main reward was wealth and fame.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That could be cool, so long as there was no pressure to reach those challenges.
Especially if you can attempt those 'large group challenges for high skill characters' with a huge group of moderate skilled characters.
Right, okay. I never felt any "pressure" to complete raids - beating them was its own reward, and the material rewards were awesome. The only "pressure" lies in the understanding that if you want to beat the more challenging raids, you have to master the less challenging ones first. If you don't care about raids at all, I'm not sure where the pressure would come from.
So, absent all that, I'm not seeing a lot of functional difference between end-game raids, and challenges designed to be completed by the most skilled groups.
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Goblin Squad Member
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True - but I took the phrase "Open Sea Sailing" to mean that, in general, you could sail a boat on a body of water. I just took a look at the map of the River Kingdoms Region (p. 164 in "The Inner Sea World Guide"), and I'm imagining how cool it would be to sail the rivers from place to place, as an additional option to running / riding.That and there aren't many oceans in the River Kingdoms.I'm surprised at how many would like to see open sea sailing. I wasn't expecting that, but I do think it would be awesome - I had it on my wish list. Even better - make a ship available as a housing option...Open sea sailing is awesome, but without certain things in the game (either an explicit radar map thing or the ability to use starcharts effectively) you're going to have a very difficult time actually getting where you want to go.
Good point - and considering the amount of Rivers, that could be a really great game mechanic, in regards to trade and exploration.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect the issue here is coming from the WoW friends who frequently rant about the rush to complete the leveling part of the game to get to the 'real game' at the end, the end-game raids.
That's simply a by-product of the fact that leveling is considered "easy" in WoW - everyone eventually hits the level cap, it's not widely considered an accomplishment. And the most challenging moments in the game are, rightly, once you've hit the highest available level. It's not that leveling isn't a "real game," it's just a different challenge paradigm. The end-game dungeons don't cheapen the 1-85 experience in any way.
I'm surprised at how many would like to see open sea sailing.The question was posed as "select all that you would like". So there was no tradeoff to picking Sailing.
If the survey had included "burrow through the earth", it probably would have gotten the same support.
Now that you mention it, could we get that? It could be interesting playing necromancer that commands his zombie-dwarf minions to excavate a ruined cyclops city or build his own dungeon.
Yesssssss
Though admittedly it will be tricky. The simplest way to do it would probably be to decelerate the digging by enforcing safe reinforcement procedures. That way you don't have to worry about dealing with whether or not the stuff will collapse.
I thought more about open-pit mining as simpler. Real excavations would require me to devote some sapient Undead overseers to my mindless zombie-dwarves minions - which would require me to hunt for Engineering skilled donators of bodies and brains to procure them in the first place... Oh, I have a quest for all those who reached decent level in Engineering - regretful it's completion requires their death.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Okay, what if we replaced "end-game raiding" with "large group challenges that can only be completed by characters who have accumulated a significant level of skill over the course of their careers?"Question #19 was the biggest surprise for me. It sounds like pretty much no one here likes end-game raids. This tells me that we probably don't have a lot of hardcore MMORPG players participating in this forum.Personally speaking, it's because I don't WANT an endgame. I want a game, with the same general environment from start to finish. I don't want to have to 'level' in order to reach the 'endgame.'
In essence I want a sandbox, which is exactly what Goblinworks has promised. The partial themepark stuff could be cool, so long as its inhibiting to early sandbox play.
Why don't we make it so the difference between the highest level characters and lowest level ones is simply a matter of more options in combat, more maneuvers or aimed attacks which primarily result in critical effects? Then everyone can contribute in any large group challenges? Additionally, since "they" have already stated they intend to make the most powerful items in game player created, benefits from uber gear can be bestowed upon anyone (they have not said they will not have limits on who can wear what gear, but I hope if you are a medium humanoid, you can wear medium humanoid armor).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm surprised at how many would like to see open sea sailing.The question was posed as "select all that you would like". So there was no tradeoff to picking Sailing.
If the survey had included "burrow through the earth", it probably would have gotten the same support.
Meh that sounds far too restrictive for my tastes.
Personally, I'd love to be a Sky Pirate in an airship with a crew ;)
Ship comes with NPC crew that is capable of running the ship, manning cannons etc, but real players should be able to replace NPC crew quickly and take control.
Yeah, that'd be sweet :)
Not a fan of the "Holy Trinity" system: 72%
That speaks wonders.
Not much else is terribly surprising. Lots of explorers and character customization is very important to those here.
I'm not sure what it says that most people "are not a fan" of a system where your options in a fight can be broken down to "prevent health loss," "cause health loss," or "restore health." As an ancillary of that, you can also cause various status conditions.
...I just described PFRPG and every other table-top game out there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not a fan of the "Holy Trinity" system: 72%
That speaks wonders.
Not much else is terribly surprising. Lots of explorers and character customization is very important to those here.
I'm not sure what it says that most people "are not a fan" of a system where your options in a fight can be broken down to "prevent health loss," "cause health loss," or "restore health." As an ancillary of that, you can also cause various status conditions.
...I just described PFRPG and every other table-top game out there.
I think people are simply sick of being pigeonholed into a role. I'm really looking forward to seeing how ArenaNet's anti-holy trinity combat system will play out.
The best video regarding THE HOLY TRINITY I've ever seen - CLICK HERE TO WATCH
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why don't we make it so the difference between the highest level characters and lowest level ones is simply a matter of more options in combat, more maneuvers or aimed attacks which primarily result in critical effects?
So what do you imagine someone with a very experienced character being able to "show off"?
Additionally, since "they" have already stated they intend to make the most powerful items in game player created, benefits from uber gear can be bestowed upon anyone (they have not said they will not have limits on who can wear what gear, but I hope if you are a medium humanoid, you can wear medium humanoid armor).
See, this is tricky, too.
If anyone can use any gear, and if having really awesome gear is mechanically important, then it will be easy for a brand new character to be awesome right out of the gate if he gets his experienced alt to mail him the gear. Now, I'm assuming you don't want characters to potentially be awesome right out of the gate, since that means having an experienced character isn't as valuable. So to get around that, you need to make a character's intrinsic abilities (those that increase with experience/skills, not with gear level) more important. But if you do that, you lessen the relative importance of gear. So in order to make gear more important for more experienced characters, you need to have their skills affect the effectiveness of their gear.
So perhaps that's the solution? Anyone can wear/use anything, but the better it is the more difficult it is to use effectively (essentially, you see diminishing returns on increased gear level unless you have the appropriate skill level to match it).
I kind of wonder how the results would have changed had you included range voting where applicable. Giving a 1 to 10 rating for each option, then averaging the results.
I prefer the PVP based four tier system of Rock, Paper, Scissors, Mushroom.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I prefer the PVP based four tier system of Rock, Paper, Scissors, Mushroom.
No, no, no - it's Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock.
The only thing i got from this Q&A is that the people attending are gigantic flaming carebears who want to huddle in their big pink castles away from all the pvpers and big nasty raiders.
I will be severely disappointed if game development will make that Q&A a major factor with all of its sharing and caring. This genre or niche of gaming is extremely popular with PvPers and to cut them out of the picture would be a massive loss of Paizo/GoblinWorks profit margin.
The only thing i got from this Q&A is that the people attending are gigantic flaming carebears who want to huddle in their big pink castles away from all the pvpers and big nasty raiders.
I will be severely disappointed if game development will make that Q&A a major factor with all of its sharing and caring. This genre or niche of gaming is extremely popular with PvPers and to cut them out of the picture would be a massive loss of Paizo/GoblinWorks profit margin.
Well, one would hope that the target audience for an RPG, whether massively-multiplayer or not, was roleplayers and not PvPers. From my experiences in every other MMO I've played in, RPers generally want to be left out of non-consensual PvP. There's a reason that RP-PvP servers in WoW are all PvP and no RP, and that the big two RP communities are on Moon Guard and Wyrmrest Accord--RP-PvE servers.
Don't worry though, Ryan Dancey has already said that they're planning on forcing people to PvP in PFO. It'll be just like Ultima Online all over again, pre-Felucca/Trammel split. Quite possibly even down to the poorly-conceived "theme park" quests tacked on years too late.
On that note, I really would love to know why the game is described as "hybrid sandbox/theme park-style MMO" (to quote the Goblinworks homepage), but so far it's all been about the sandbox--to the point that Mr Dancey refers to it in other posts on these forums as "a sandbox game with theme park elements" and occasionally simply as "a sandbox game."
What "theme park elements" are going to be present? Will they be meaningful, well-written quests in the mold of The Old Republic or World of Warcraft or Dungeons & Dragons Online...or will they be extremely generic filler quests like UO added a few years after release (I'm looking mainly at the Classic Quest system--got sick of that game well before Mondain's Legacy)?
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The only thing i got from this Q&A is that the people attending are gigantic flaming carebears who want to huddle in their big pink castles away from all the pvpers and big nasty raiders.
I will be severely disappointed if game development will make that Q&A a major factor with all of its sharing and caring. This genre or niche of gaming is extremely popular with PvPers and to cut them out of the picture would be a massive loss of Paizo/GoblinWorks profit margin.
Well, one would hope that the target audience for an RPG, whether massively-multiplayer or not, was roleplayers and not PvPers. From my experiences in every other MMO I've played in, RPers generally want to be left out of non-consensual PvP. There's a reason that RP-PvP servers in WoW are all PvP and no RP, and that the big two RP communities are on Moon Guard and Wyrmrest Accord--RP-PvE servers.
Don't worry though, Ryan Dancey has already said that they're planning on forcing people to PvP in PFO. It'll be just like Ultima Online all over again, pre-Felucca/Trammel split. Quite possibly even down to the poorly-conceived "theme park" quests tacked on years too late.
On that note, I really would love to know why the game is described as "hybrid sandbox/theme park-style MMO" (to quote the Goblinworks homepage), but so far it's all been about the sandbox--to the point that Mr Dancey refers to it in other posts on these forums as "a sandbox game with theme park elements" and occasionally simply as "a sandbox game."
What "theme park elements" are going to be present? Will they be meaningful, well-written quests in the mold of The Old Republic or World of Warcraft or Dungeons & Dragons Online...or will they be extremely generic filler quests like UO added a few years after release (I'm looking mainly at the Classic Quest system--got sick of that game well before Mondain's Legacy)?
As a wyrmrester i can assure you they are all baddies who can't play the game. Besides RPers are cowards in that respect because of their precious little self-pereceptions. "I'm Lord Derpington of Herpington Castle" means nothing when i come along and brain you with my axe. It is through PvP that you can forumlate RP status and 'titles' otherwise it is all meaningless drivel.
I think people are simply sick of being pigeonholed into a role. I'm really looking forward to seeing how ArenaNet's anti-holy trinity combat system will play out.
The best video regarding THE HOLY TRINITY I've ever seen - CLICK HERE TO WATCH
The problem isn't with "the holy trinity" then--it's with a particular implementation of it that requires the presence of all three elements in any successful group.
As a wyrmrester i can assure you they are all baddies who can't play the game....
Glad you're so willing to paint myself and every other roleplayer on WrA as "baddies who can't play the game." Incidentally, I really doubt you've ever played with me on WrA before. Of course, I don't have a character at level cap on WrA yet--but I'm transferring my characters from the Twisting Nether RP-PvP server over to WrA within a couple of weeks. As is the rest of my guild--because RP on TN is that dead.
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I think people are simply sick of being pigeonholed into a role. I'm really looking forward to seeing how ArenaNet's anti-holy trinity combat system will play out.The best video regarding THE HOLY TRINITY I've ever seen - CLICK HERE TO WATCH
/GW2 Fistbump
As a wyrmrester i can assure you they are all baddies who can't play the game....Glad you're so willing to paint myself and every other roleplayer on WrA as "baddies who can't play the game." Incidentally, I really doubt you've ever played with me on WrA before. Of course, I don't have a character at level cap on WrA yet--but I'm transferring my characters from the Twisting Nether RP-PvP server over to WrA within a couple of weeks. As is the rest of my guild--because RP on TN is that dead.
<3 love
The name is Rekzil, i'm renowned on hordeside for being an incredible jackass
As a wyrmrester i can assure you they are all baddies who can't play the game....The only thing i got from this Q&A is that the people attending are gigantic flaming carebears who want to huddle in their big pink castles away from all the pvpers and big nasty raiders.
I will be severely disappointed if game development will make that Q&A a major factor with all of its sharing and caring. This genre or niche of gaming is extremely popular with PvPers and to cut them out of the picture would be a massive loss of Paizo/GoblinWorks profit margin.
Well, one would hope that the target audience for an RPG, whether massively-multiplayer or not, was roleplayers and not PvPers. From my experiences in every other MMO I've played in, RPers generally want to be left out of non-consensual PvP. There's a reason that RP-PvP servers in WoW are all PvP and no RP, and that the big two RP communities are on Moon Guard and Wyrmrest Accord--RP-PvE servers.
Don't worry though, Ryan Dancey has already said that they're planning on forcing people to PvP in PFO. It'll be just like Ultima Online all over again, pre-Felucca/Trammel split. Quite possibly even down to the poorly-conceived "theme park" quests tacked on years too late.
On that note, I really would love to know why the game is described as "hybrid sandbox/theme park-style MMO" (to quote the Goblinworks homepage), but so far it's all been about the sandbox--to the point that Mr Dancey refers to it in other posts on these forums as "a sandbox game with theme park elements" and occasionally simply as "a sandbox game."
What "theme park elements" are going to be present? Will they be meaningful, well-written quests in the mold of The Old Republic or World of Warcraft or Dungeons & Dragons Online...or will they be extremely generic filler quests like UO added a few years after release (I'm looking mainly at the Classic Quest system--got sick of that game well before Mondain's Legacy)?
Wow. Would you like a warm cup of milk and fuzzy socks to go with your blanket statement?
You strike me as one of those self-proclaimed "hardcore PvPers" who run around in groups of 5-10 ganking solo players and stroking your epeen to your accomplishment.
Throw around whatever stereotypes of players who prefer a certain playstyle you like, just remember that no player-mold is more derided than the 1337 PvPer.
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As a wyrmrester i can assure you they are all baddies who can't play the game....Glad you're so willing to paint myself and every other roleplayer on WrA as "baddies who can't play the game."
Aww...
I love hardcore PvP'ers. Back in Vanilla, they were always shouting how badly I sucked when I got gang-banged by 3 of them while my team was capping flags and winning every time.
War>Battle.
As a wyrmrester i can assure you they are all baddies who can't play the game....Glad you're so willing to paint myself and every other roleplayer on WrA as "baddies who can't play the game."Aww...
I love hardcore PvP'ers. Back in Vanilla, they were always shouting how badly I sucked when I got gang-banged by 3 of them while my team was capping flags and winning every time.
War>Battle.
Unfortunately no the ad hominem didn't work. I'm very proud to call myself a griefer, ganker, PvPer and Goon. I don't share prey.
<3 love
The name is Rekzil, i'm renowned on hordeside for being an incredible jackass
I've probably seen you around Silvermoon on my placeholder. I'm Ansha on WrA.net, also, and in-game.
Besides RPers are cowards in that respect because of their precious little self-pereceptions. "I'm Lord Derpington of Herpington Castle" means nothing when i come along and brain you with my axe. It is through PvP that you can forumlate RP status and 'titles' otherwise it is all meaningless drivel.
This got cut off in my previous quotation of you, but I should point out that titles (specifically, titles of nobility) are often hereditary and have no bearing on combat prowess IRL--"I'm Lord Derpington of Herpington Castle" does not change simply because you can brain Lord Derpington with your axe. It's really no different in-game--especially in a game without permadeath.
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Goblin Squad Member
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"I'm Lord Derpington of Herpington Castle" means nothing when i come along and brain you with my axe. It is through PvP that you can forumlate RP status and 'titles' otherwise it is all meaningless drivel.+5
To build on this though, think about the warfare and kingdom building. How the hell is that supposed to happen when you can't match armies of PC's against eachother. (And please don't say party vs specific enemy elite units in PvE. Lets save that for tabletop ok?)
+5 isn't really worth much if you give them so freely. Especially to someone who is so freely insulting others on the forum.
This got cut off in my previous quotation of you, but I should point out that titles (specifically, titles of nobility) are often hereditary and have no bearing on combat prowess IRL--"I'm Lord Derpington of Herpington Castle" does not change simply because you can brain Lord Derpington with your axe. It's really no different in-game--especially in a game without permadeath.
"Kings" became kings because they said they were king and had the power to enforce it. I don't care if you are the chosen of gods or mighty kings, i'll still take over your stuff.
"Kings" became kings because they said they were king and had the power to enforce it. I don't care if you are the chosen of gods or mighty kings, i'll still take over your stuff.
They may have become kings because they had the power to enforce their claims, but as kyrt-ryder points out, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with personal combat skill. Within the context of WoW--I don't care that you can brain Lord Derpington with an axe. He's still Lord Herpington, because you can't permanently kill him.
Within the context of a PvP game like Darkfall or even WAR? Sure, you just took his castle. He's still Lord Derpington, but now he's in exile until he and all his followers kill you and take Herpington Castle back.
You can't stop someone from claiming a title, even if you think it's meaningless drivel.
"Kings" became kings because they said they were king and had the power to enforce it. I don't care if you are the chosen of gods or mighty kings, i'll still take over your stuff.They may have become kings because they had the power to enforce their claims, but as kyrt-ryder points out, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with personal combat skill. Within the context of WoW--I don't care that you can brain Lord Derpington with an axe. He's still Lord Herpington, because you can't permanently kill him.
Within the context of a PvP game like Darkfall or even WAR? Sure, you just took his castle. He's still Lord Derpington, but now he's in exile until he and all his followers kill you and take Herpington Castle back.
You can't stop someone from claiming a title, even if you think it's meaningless drivel.
Unless my guild fights off his followers and is all :smug: when they ransack his bank and treasury.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I too hate the Holy Trinity system...
I like options - there should be no 'perfect' setup for every instance (such as 2 DPS, 2 Tanks, 1 Healer, 1 other)
This has always been one of those things that drove me nuts about several MMORPGs that I have played - if you weren't ideal, you just couldn't find a group that would play with you.
I would love to see the games play tested with a variety of combinations - i.e. all fighters, all rogues, all clerics, all wizards etc. and various mixes. It should be possible to be successful with each method, though a different experience depending on how it is played.
Is this necessary setup for different runs an actual feature of MMORPG gameplay? Or is it how most people play?
I generally ignored those who would say "That mob requires three thieves and one mage" or similar. They were generally right that their method was the most efficient, but it was rarely as necessary as they portrayed it. Have MMORPGs actually hardcoded in a requirement for mixed groups? Or could five tanks take down some of the BBEGs, just slower and more expensively than one tanks, three hitters and a healer?
You can't stop someone from claiming a title, even if you think it's meaningless drivel.Unless my guild fights off his followers and is all :smug: when they ransack his bank and treasury.
Congrats, he's still Lord Derpington-in-exile, and you still think it's meaningless drivel.