Crane Wing VS Maneuvers


Rules Questions


Question 1: Does Crane Wing work against trip attacks? Disarm attacks? Grapple attacks? Any other maneuver attacks?

Crane Wing:
"Once per round while using Crane Style, when you have at least one hand free and are either fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you can deflect one melee weapon attack that would normally hit you. You expend no action to deflect the attack, but you must be aware of it and not flat-footed. An attack so deflected deals no damage to you."

One of my players has taken this ability, and I want to make sure I adjudicate it fairly. My player believes that Crane Wing should be effective against any attack, allowing him to deflect folks relying upon their CMB.

I believe that it only works against attacks that use a melee weapon as part of the attack, meaning I'm not sure if it would work against unarmed trips, or unarmed disarms.

Question 2: Speaking of, do unarmed attacks from Monks count as "weapons" because of their training? (I don't think so, but it was brought up by my player so I want to try to cover it.)

Question 3: And finally, if you use a weapon to try to disarm (or sunder) your opponent's weapon, would that count for the deflection purposes of Crane Wing?

Silver Crusade

"'Armed' Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks)." - Attacking unarmed

1. Any attack made in melee may be deflected by the crane wing ability. It does not specify it has to be a damaging attack to be deflected, as long as its a melee weapon attack being deflected. Anyone attacking with Improved Unarmed Strike, natural weapons, touch attacks, all considered weapons.

2. As stated, monk's unarmed attacks do count as melee weapons. One could argue that an untrained, unarmed fighter could not be deflected. Obviously, sense says the ability works equally well to untrained, unarmed attacks.

3. Same as 1.


Nightskies wrote:

"'Armed' Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks)." - Attacking unarmed

1. Any attack made in melee may be deflected by the crane wing ability. It does not specify it has to be a damaging attack to be deflected, as long as its a melee weapon attack being deflected. Anyone attacking with Improved Unarmed Strike, natural weapons, touch attacks, all considered weapons.

2. As stated, monk's unarmed attacks do count as melee weapons. One could argue that an untrained, unarmed fighter could not be deflected. Obviously, sense says the ability works equally well to untrained, unarmed attacks.

3. Same as 1.

I think the quote you're referring to about "armed unarmed attacks" is talking about how those folks don't provoke attacks of opportunity for attacking, and for that purpose (hence the word sometimes) are considered armed. I've never considered that quote to go outside the context of attacks of opportunity; in fact, it goes on to say, "Note that being armed counts for both offense and defense (the character can make attacks of opportunity)."

I don't think it's saying treat them as if they are holding a weapon for all other purposes.

The ability specifically mentions melee weapons -- it doesn't refer to armed attacks per se. To me, a touch spell is not a melee weapon because it's not on the weapon table.

However, it looks like an unarmed strike is . . . it actually reads that an unarmed strike is "always considered a light weapon." I'll be darned. That pretty much answers my questions, unarmed strikes are, indeed, considered weapons, no matter the training involved.

I think it's reasonable to say an attempt to sunder your equipment is an attack against you. So, Nightskies, thank you, and while I disagree with the road you took to get to your conclusion I do find myself agreeing with your conclusion.

Except in the case of touch spells.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Crane Wing VS Maneuvers All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions