Goblin Squad Member
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[rant apology='sincere']
If there's one thing I hate - truly passionately hate - about Multiplayer games, it is the constant jumping of player characters. Please make it not possible to jump.
If you refuse, then pretty please make it impossible to jump in a city.
Or, have the guards drag the jumping git to the local healer's shop, have them examined, have them pay deerly for the healer's services, and sent on their merry way.
If you refuse even that, pretty please with sugar on top, mercilessly banhammer those morons who cannot refrain from sharing their chronic case of Jumping Git with civilised people.
[/rant]
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What if jumping quickly burns "endurance", "stamina", or "action points" (or whatever fills that function)?
Seconded. It kills my immersion to walk through a city and see everyone jumping or dive rolling everywhere they go, but the game is more interesting if these options exist for action/adventure purposes.
Alternately, disallow jumping only in high-population centers, but make it ok in wilderness zones or dungeons. Maybe it counts as a combat action and therefore cannot be done in areas where combat does not happen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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When it comes to character movement, I'd prefer if my character can:
- Walk
- Run
- Sneak
- Climb
- Swim
- Crawl
The reason? By breaking up the standard 'walk all the time gameplay', it allows for the world to feel more real with an environment the player can interact with.
Also, this opens up new possibilities in your gameplay experience while adventuring.
Would you rather walk everywhere, or:
- Sneak past some guards or within earshot of an important conversation between NPC's
- Climb up or down surfaces, discovering new locations as you go such as a cave at the bottom of a cliff
- Swim to a nearby island or go underwater, discovering a tunnel that leads up into a hidden cave where you find an entire new location hidden from the rest of the world
- Crawl
As for active combat movements such as dodging/jumping during combat, I'd love some sort of stamina meter which realistically limits a character's acrobatics so you're not getting bunny hoppers.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hate MMOs without jumping. Sure the hoppers are annoying but why remove something that everyone can do? Everyone should be able to jump. I also don't mind if it requires endurance like it was mentioned.
"Z"
If there's one thing SANDBOX games are about, it's offering the player FREEDOM.
Restricting jumping would be very silly imho for reasons I detailed above.
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Please make it not possible to jump.
You sound like a crappy FPS server. :P
"NO JUMPING"
"NO VEHICLE C4"
"NO CLEANING YOUR GENITALS IN THE KITCHEN SINK"
"NO COITUS IN THE SPAWN AREAS"
I prefer to have jumping as some situations just call for it, like jumping over crevices. I would just like to see jumping/running cause endurance to fall until you have to walk again.
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Please make it not possible to jump.You sound like a crappy FPS server. :P
"NO JUMPING"
"NO VEHICLE C4"
"NO CLEANING YOUR GENITALS IN THE KITCHEN SINK"
"NO COITUS IN THE SPAWN AREAS"
Here in Australia it is customary to jump a lot because dropbears have problems trying to catch people who are jumping. I'm sorry if my survival mechanism offends you.
Dropbears killed my uncle for not jumping so this is no joking matter.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm sorry if my survival mechanism offends you.
Hahaha. I get where the OP is coming from, but I truly believe it can be 'controlled' with a stamina limiter. Also, the player base is likely to skew heavily to role players, who generally have a much different play style than what makes up the majority of MMORPG players. From my experience, at least...
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Well, I guess if people want to walk around jumping up and down all the time, that's their perogative.
All I know is that if I was a tavernkeep and some weird guy came in bouncing up and down for no apparent reason, I'd think he was hepped up on goofballs and throw him out of my bar.
I think in game consequences should be there for "jumping."
If not, well..... my immersion experience will be compromised.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, I guess if people want to walk around jumping up and down all the time, that's their perogative.
All I know is that if I was a tavernkeep and some weird guy came in bouncing up and down for no apparent reason, I'd think he was hepped up on goofballs and throw him out of my bar.
I think in game consequences should be there for "jumping."
If not, well..... my immersion experience will be compromised.
This is why it is customary to toss a sack of coins to the tavern keeper and offer drinks for all, as you skip about your merry way. Having a bard in tow singing praises of your legendary jumping abilities is for the truly accomplished jumpers of the world. Lesser people can feel free to trudge around in soulless mediocrity.
Yeah.
Also, if you ever happen to go to prison IRL, walk up to the biggest, baddest individual in the slammer with you, break his nose, then give him a carton of smokes.
I've heard that that works really well.
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Y'all are just jealous my elf can do flips.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I didn't want to do it but I suppose I must.
This my friends is a legendary fable about a dwarf who is strong and able.
From there to here he jumps with ease, many o' ladies he is sure to please.
To and fro, he is about to go!
Up and down, around the town!
To and fro, never too slow!
Up and down, without a frown!
Try not to get in the way of his skips, this truly is a way to see he flips.
The man you see is hardly a fop. Clear that table he is about to hop!
To and fro, he is about to go!
Up and down, around the town!
To and fro, your lady shall go!
Up and down, without a gown!
What if jumping quickly burns "endurance", "stamina", or "action points" (or whatever fills that function)?
This^
They can even made a adventure/quest/etc that you need to manage your endurance/stamina/ac with your jump/climb/etc abilitys to scape from a dungeon or a monster.
Or to get faster to a location with a special event.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What if jumping quickly burns "endurance", "stamina", or "action points" (or whatever fills that function)?This^
They can even made a adventure/quest/etc that you need to manage your endurance/stamina/ac with your jump/climb/etc abilitys to scape from a dungeon or a monster.
Or to get faster to a location with a special event.
The tough part here is not everyone is good at Super Mario Brothers style 2d platform games. Toss in a 3d world and forget about it. Warhammer showed this with certain areas requiring precise jumping ability and while it was fun to watch people fail while waiting up above, it got old quick enough when some people had to get others to log in just to get them to the location. Look at Assassin's Creed, it is a good example of a game that in many spots only gives the illusion of ability/freedom when in fact it has artificial limits to not annoy gamers who lack precise skill.
Why ban something because children have ADD? Or even waste the resources to put in a special "jumping endurance meter" for that matter?
It's silly.
Just grow a thicker skin and ignore it.
I think that having endurance limit that burns on special movement types (climbing, jumping, running, swimming) is good idea.
Also, it would be lovely to make the characters capable of movement matching the possibilities in Gothic 1 and 2 (hadn't played 3) - where you could climb virtually everywhere (which was quite fun in Gothic 2 where one could easily find texture discontinuity this way - unfortunate result of rushed release) - instead of ridiculous lack of climbing of MMO I have seen where slightest slope can be complete barrier.
Also, removing jumping completely wouldn't be a good idea - as it would create more ridiculously unpassable obstacles.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that having endurance limit that burns on special movement types (climbing, jumping, running, swimming) is good idea.
Also, it would be lovely to make the characters capable of movement matching the possibilities in Gothic 1 and 2 (hadn't played 3) - where you could climb virtually everywhere (which was quite fun in Gothic 2 where one could easily find texture discontinuity this way - unfortunate result of rushed release) - instead of ridiculous lack of climbing of MMO I have seen where slightest slope can be complete barrier.
Also, removing jumping completely wouldn't be a good idea - as it would create more ridiculously unpassable obstacles.
I hope the amount of stamina used in these actions (and ideally even in basic movement) is directly tied to encumbrance. I am tired of my fellow players swimming across rivers or even moats in their full plate with a full pack of gear. You try swimming a meter like that your endurance would be 0 and you would be sunk.
Such a system gives a measure of balance to heavy versus light armor...wear your heavy armor but you will never be able to catch someone in light armor who is shooting arrows at you. Likewise, that person in light armor is not going to last a moment on a battlefield.
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I like the idea of basing stamina loss on encumberance. It should also be increased while wearing heavy armor. I wouldn't mind if the weather was also involved - if designers decide to go that far.
What if jumping quickly burns "endurance", "stamina", or "action points" (or whatever fills that function)?
A agree with this! Should do the same thing full run movement.
Goblinworks Founder
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Please make it not possible to jump.You sound like a crappy FPS server. :P
"NO JUMPING"
"NO VEHICLE C4"
"NO CLEANING YOUR GENITALS IN THE KITCHEN SINK"
"NO COITUS IN THE SPAWN AREAS"Here in Australia it is customary to jump a lot because dropbears have problems trying to catch people who are jumping. I'm sorry if my survival mechanism offends you.
Dropbears killed my uncle for not jumping so this is no joking matter.
It's not only customary, it's a lifesaving skill for when you run out of vegemite.
Seriously though, is it too difficult to ignore the little kids that jump around like acrobats on meth, why would you want to restrict a sandbox game because of bad experiences with Night Elf hunters?
I'm definitely in favor of a universal stamina bar that quickly drains if you sprint, jump or swim fast (freestyle over breast stroke).
Also, I would hope that if non-spell casters use a specific resource for their feats (action points, energy, stamina etc), then spell casters use the same resource. If spell casters use mana and have a separate bar for sprinting or jumping (stamina) while fighters and rogues expend stamina for their special abilities and feats in addition to sprinting and jumping, then spell casters have a huge advantage.
I'm hoping that because this is a skill system, than we will just have a set number of action points that every ability uses as a resource whether it be casting a fireball, jumping a chasm or bashing with your shield.
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Seriously hope jumping is in, because it causes an even bigger immersion break when my character gets blocked by a knee-high fence or even a log on the ground, or has to go all the way around a shallow-angled ramp.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I kind of second the idea of a stamina meter, what if there were different potential running speeds.
90-100% stamina = 100% max speed
80-89% stamina = 90% max speed
70-79% 80% max speed
60-70% 70% max speed
50-59% half max speed
40-49% cannot run, jump half height
30-39% cannot run cannot jump
etc... Make it go down fairly slow, but basically make jumping around nonstop, exhausting and cut into travel time. I'd even make running at maximum possible speed drain it (don't make the standard move speed too slow that it is unbearable). Climbing, swimming, weight encumberance etc... cause stamina to drain faster. Moving around at say jogging pace should not drain, or drain so slow that it takes hours to wear yourself out, but sprinting 100 feet at max speed should be exhausting.
Please make it not possible to jump.You sound like a crappy FPS server. :P
"NO JUMPING"
"NO VEHICLE C4"
"NO CLEANING YOUR GENITALS IN THE KITCHEN SINK"
"NO COITUS IN THE SPAWN AREAS"Here in Australia it is customary to jump a lot because dropbears have problems trying to catch people who are jumping. I'm sorry if my survival mechanism offends you.
Dropbears killed my uncle for not jumping so this is no joking matter.
Are you speaking of the fictitious creatures or of the rock band?
[rant apology='sincere']
If there's one thing I hate - truly passionately hate - about Multiplayer games, it is the constant jumping of player characters. Please make it not possible to jump.
If you refuse, then pretty please make it impossible to jump in a city.
Or, have the guards drag the jumping git to the local healer's shop, have them examined, have them pay deerly for the healer's services, and sent on their merry way.
If you refuse even that, pretty please with sugar on top, mercilessly banhammer those morons who cannot refrain from sharing their chronic case of Jumping Git with civilised people.[/rant]
Arguably the most ludicrous gripe in gaming history. What does the jumping do to you? I would agree that having jumping balanced - and increasing the ability with the Acrobatics/Jump skill would be thematically and rules appropriate, but I HATE land-locked RPG's like FF11. Plane-locking is the surest way to make me despise any game. Without a jump, a 1-foot ledge is an effective barrier, which is MUCH stupider and unrealistic than people jumping constantly. You remove an entire set of tactical options(crates, jumping over tables, climbing hills/mountains/houses). Disabling a jump would also completely destroy the Pathfinder/D&D experience...what Fighter hasn't jumped onto a table to swipe the head off a hobgoblin? What Barbarian hasn't hopped onto a bar to declare his intentions of pugilism? I jump all the time IRL...maybe you're just jealous?
Y'all are just jealous my elf can do flips.I think you're probably right.
Jumping is the best.
TRUTH.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Let's please not go down the whole "running/jumping/swimming drains your stamina" route. It will not be as much fun as you think it is. And it will be even less fun for all of the people who don't think that their ability to jump should be limited by a meter.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Jumping is of course a necessary ability in a Pathfinder MMO. But a smidgen of pseudo-realism would also be nice. I don't really care about the kids jumping down the road. It's moronic, but it doesn't bother me. What does bother me rather badly are the idiots jumping around like ferrets on crack in places where many PCs are gathered. It shatters verisimilitude.
I don't think the meter idea would stop them. They'd just rest up and start again. How about just preventing it in urban areas? I'd be very happy with that.
Or, how about just a big board I can hit jumping characters with? Or better yet, the players of jumping characters?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Jumping is of course a necessary ability in a Pathfinder MMO. But a smidgen of pseudo-realism would also be nice. I don't really care about the kids jumping down the road. It's moronic, but it doesn't bother me. What does bother me rather badly are the idiots jumping around like ferrets on crack in places where many PCs are gathered. It shatters verisimilitude.
I don't think the meter idea would stop them. They'd just rest up and start again. How about just preventing it in urban areas? I'd be very happy with that.
Or, how about just a big board I can hit jumping characters with? Or better yet, the players of jumping characters?
And what if I want to play a cat burglar that uses the rooftops to travel to avoid the law? I need the ability to jump.
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All I have to say is, if this is a Pathfinder based game, jumping better be in. Endurance should be necessity if you're a jumping idjit, also if you run every where...
We have skills, we should be able to use the abilities.
I want to be able to move everywhere, I want the physics to be physics. I jump (rolls d20+jump skill-armor penalty)...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Jumping is of course a necessary ability in a Pathfinder MMO. But a smidgen of pseudo-realism would also be nice. I don't really care about the kids jumping down the road. It's moronic, but it doesn't bother me. What does bother me rather badly are the idiots jumping around like ferrets on crack in places where many PCs are gathered. It shatters verisimilitude.
An MMO is not-safe-for-versimilitude environment.
So, I want to sum things up:
You guys have a low pain threshold when it comes to annoyances.
Therefore, you want to limit the jumping ability of characters.
You want to do that by introducing a "stamina bar".
I really don't think you thought this through.
Let me reiterate that: Because you don't want to be annoyed, you will have something to do with stamina, in bar form.
If you think people hopping around like bunny rabbits is annoying, wait until you hear the flood of comments like "HEY! LOOK AT ME, LADIES! I HAVE LOTS AND LOTS OF STAMINA!!! LOOT AT MY 'STAMINA BAR', IT'S HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE! WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE!"
You'll get this about 70 times. Per second. On every channel.
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What if they wildshape into a kangeroo?
@Kaeyoss yes that does sound more annoying than jumping.
I don't mind so much if jumping is in the game, but if there is CROUCHING, count me the f#@! out.
I don't mind so much if jumping is in the game, but if there is CROUCHING, count me the f#@! out.[notsureifserious.jpg]
Not at this hour.
So, I want to sum things up:
You guys have a low pain threshold when it comes to annoyances.
Therefore, you want to limit the jumping ability of characters.
You want to do that by introducing a "stamina bar".
Actually I wanted stamina bar not to prevent players jumping out of their s*** everywhere. I just want wide movement options to be used in various situations.
Let me reiterate that: Because you don't want to be annoyed, you will have something to do with stamina, in bar form.
If you think people hopping around like bunny rabbits is annoying, wait until you hear the flood of comments like "HEY! LOOK AT ME, LADIES! I HAVE LOTS AND LOTS OF STAMINA!!! LOOT AT MY 'STAMINA BAR', IT'S HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE! WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE!"
You'll get this about 70 times. Per second. On every channel.
Here comes the ignore button in chat. We do get ignore button, right? Right?
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Jumping in PvP in order to avoid being hit can be addressed by the PvP system.. namely not structuring it so that jumping gives one any advantage in PvP. (I'm a life-time fan of DAoC's old /face and /stick commands. A simple and effective 'FU' to jumpers AND run-thru'ers in pvp..)
If someone wants to hop around everywhere they go outside of PvP, what's the harm?
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Jumping everywhere is healthy and fun. If you don't like people jumping, then you are most obviously a no fun person. Those people annoy me, so we really need a stamina bar to prevent people from being no fun for too long.
I wish we could also have midair stops while jumping to wait for one's next turn.
Seriously, if you don't want people to jump everywhere, make it 1% slower than moving without jumping. That would be quite enough.