Something i am curious about is the Crafting system idea's. I know its fresh so there might not have been a lot in on it yet. In Starwars Galaxies, one of the coolest features was the fact that you could become a World Renowned Crafter. Any Time something you crafted was used you gained Experience. Is there any chance a feature like that may be used?
Chief Technical Officer
|
Something i am curious about is the Crafting system idea's. I know its fresh so there might not have been a lot in on it yet. In Starwars Galaxies, one of the coolest features was the fact that you could become a World Renowned Crafter. Any Time something you crafted was used you gained Experience. Is there any chance a feature like that may be used?
You will be able to create stuff, and make a living in-game doing just that if you like.
|
I really hope (and this goes for most if not all game mechanics) the system for crafting is entirely based off of the tabletop system. I see no good reason to change it. One reason (not a good one, mind you) is to appease the "casual crowd". I feel like electronic gaming has suffered huge setbacks doing this. There are rules already in the Pathfinder RPG for crafting, and making money doing it. It's a good system, keep it.
Goblin Squad Member
|
I really hope (and this goes for most if not all game mechanics) the system for crafting is entirely based off of the tabletop system. I see no good reason to change it. One reason (not a good one, mind you) is to appease the "casual crowd". I feel like electronic gaming has suffered huge setbacks doing this. There are rules already in the Pathfinder RPG for crafting, and making money doing it. It's a good system, keep it.
While I could understand if some of the details need to be changed in order to make it work within the game, I am very much for taking the main concepts of the PRPG and using those as the base for the MMO. Based on what I've read on the FAQ, that appears to be the direction they're going with the game in general, so I'm hopeful.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I really hope (and this goes for most if not all game mechanics) the system for crafting is entirely based off of the tabletop system. I see no good reason to change it. One reason (not a good one, mind you) is to appease the "casual crowd". I feel like electronic gaming has suffered huge setbacks doing this. There are rules already in the Pathfinder RPG for crafting, and making money doing it. It's a good system, keep it.
This strikes me as unlikely. First, the team is apparently willing to deviate from the tabletop game whenever they decide the tabletop game doesn't match up well with an MMORPG format. Second, the tabletop game's crafting system is not set up in a way that is conducive to MMO-style gameplay. For instance, the idea that you can craft anything in the game with enough gold pieces and a skilled spellcaster isn't really going to cut it - the idea of the game's primary currency (usually gold) being used to craft powerful equipment fell apart years ago. The current accepted model is based on tokens received for beating certain challenges - completing a raid dungeon, for example, might give you a token item necessary to craft a powerful piece of equipment.
Essentially, the team will have to consider how they want to make these magic items available to players, and then pick a crafting system based on that goal.
|
|
You use gold to buy materials, and character skill to turn those materials into items, over the span of days, weeks, or months, depending on the building. Maybe you're building a sword, maybe furniture, maybe a house, maybe a castle. They all take character skill, resources, and time. Gold is a fast and more enjoyable way of attaining resources, rather than sitting in the woods chopping down trees, and lugging those back to town.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I really hope (and this goes for most if not all game mechanics) the system for crafting is entirely based off of the tabletop system. I see no good reason to change it. One reason (not a good one, mind you) is to appease the "casual crowd". I feel like electronic gaming has suffered huge setbacks doing this. There are rules already in the Pathfinder RPG for crafting, and making money doing it. It's a good system, keep it.This strikes me as unlikely. First, the team is apparently willing to deviate from the tabletop game whenever they decide the tabletop game doesn't match up well with an MMORPG format. Second, the tabletop game's crafting system is not set up in a way that is conducive to MMO-style gameplay. For instance, the idea that you can craft anything in the game with enough gold pieces and a skilled spellcaster isn't really going to cut it - the idea of the game's primary currency (usually gold) being used to craft powerful equipment fell apart years ago. The current accepted model is based on tokens received for beating certain challenges - completing a raid dungeon, for example, might give you a token item necessary to craft a powerful piece of equipment.
Essentially, the team will have to consider how they want to make these magic items available to players, and then pick a crafting system based on that goal.
True though I do have to say it is plausible to do something like that if done correctly within the right confines. The reason it falls apart in most MMO's is due to the lack of incentive. The fact that most games follow the model of "grind endless trash mobs to make money, run a dangerous instance with a team to get good gear". In which case a crafting system that does not force you into the dungeon or allows you skip the dungeon, causes the dungeons to be unused (the sad state of modern MMO's, is 75% of people take efficiency over fun, no matter how well designed something is people will skip over it for whatever the fastest way to level is.
Now my thought of solution, crafting time, or even cooldowns. The issue most MMO's have is they make it take a long time to level up crafting, but once you hit the top, you can mass produce whatever you craft as long as you have materials. IMO you could in theory eliminate the need for exotic materials, with say heavy crafting times (lets say it takes an hour to make a +3 or better item), or less annoyingly via a simple cooldown (after you make something good, your crafting ability cannot be used for 3 days). For plan 1. I actually think if there were a real system, maybe a puzzle style game or something possibly challenging or fun to be done to actually do the crafting it could in theory be made into a unique side task for when you are burned out on normal adventuring.
Yeah, the tabletop game's crafting rules are kinda wonky. I really hope they DON'T use those. Something closer to a dynamic economy is needed.
As far as the game goes... I want to create a goblin chef!
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
True though I do have to say it is plausible to do something like that if done correctly within the right confines. The reason it falls apart in most MMO's is due to the lack of incentive. The fact that most games follow the model of "grind endless trash mobs to make money, run a dangerous instance with a team to get good gear". In which case a crafting system that does not force you into the dungeon or allows you skip the dungeon, causes the dungeons to be unused (the sad state of modern MMO's, is 75% of people take efficiency over fun, no matter how well designed something is people will skip over it for whatever the fastest way to level is.
Er...
In WoW, at least, running dungeons is the fastest way to gain levels and wealth/equipment. It requires a certain level of basic competency (dungeons tend to be harder than solo questing out in the game world, and many/most have specific strategies that must be learned in order to proceed) and a group of other players, but it's the fast train to Endgamesville.
Now my thought of solution, crafting time, or even cooldowns. The issue most MMO's have is they make it take a long time to level up crafting, but once you hit the top, you can mass produce whatever you craft as long as you have materials.
Which MMOs still have this issue? WoW has been putting prime crafting requirements on 24-hour cooldowns for years. Sure, a blacksmith can make a sword of UberSmiting as often as he wants, but in order to craft one he needs 10 Ingots of Unobtainium which a max-level smith can only make one of each day. Pretty much every craft in the game has such limits built in.
IMO you could in theory eliminate the need for exotic materials, with say heavy crafting times (lets say it takes an hour to make a +3 or better item),
I'm not sure how you'd do this without requiring the PC to sit idle for the duration of the crafting time.
or less annoyingly via a simple cooldown (after you make something good, your crafting ability cannot be used for 3 days).
Again, this is how things are done nowadays.
For plan 1. I actually think if there were a real system, maybe a puzzle style game or something possibly challenging or fun to be done to actually do the crafting it could in theory be made into a unique side task for when you are burned out on normal adventuring.
Yeah, but you can't have a side game take an hour. You'd have to develop a truly engrossing side game in order to justify hours at a time spent playing it just to craft an item, and that's a lot of development time that just doesn't need to be spent.
And that still doesn't change anything - if it takes 1 hour to make a rad sword, there will be no scarcity of rad swords due to time; there will be enough smiths and few enough people in need of swords that someone will always be able to make a sword for you. The whole 24-hour cooldown thing is effective because it actually puts an appreciable delay and associated level of scarcity on some of the best equipment in the game (ideally, a delay and scarcity that coincides roughly with the players' ability to complete end-game challenges that award comparable gear without the crafting hassle).
|
|
If crafting took realistic amounts of time, as it does in tabletop format, I think it's clear that few people would be interested in crafting. They would likely wait until they have followers that can do it for them, and would take a supervisory role. Maybe a handful of people would be willing to do it all themselves: the gathering (mining, deforesting (term?), hunting, etc), the crafting, the transporting, the selling.
I think that's fine, actually. That simulates a balanced environment.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
If crafting took realistic amounts of time, as it does in tabletop format, I think it's clear that few people would be interested in crafting. They would likely wait until they have followers that can do it for them, and would take a supervisory role. Maybe a handful of people would be willing to do it all themselves: the gathering (mining, deforesting (term?), hunting, etc), the crafting, the transporting, the selling.
I think that's fine, actually. That simulates a balanced environment.
"Simulating" a balanced or realistic environment is not the goal of most (perhaps even all) MMOs. And, I would argue, shouldn't be the goal of Pathfinder Online.
Something i am curious about is the Crafting system idea's. I know its fresh so there might not have been a lot in on it yet. In Starwars Galaxies, one of the coolest features was the fact that you could become a World Renowned Crafter.
I agree with Goraxes, when SWG first came out it had the best in game crafting system I have seen. Most of the items crafted had to have certain materials and the bigger and better ones had to have components made first.
|
|
I'm aware that it isn't the goal of most MMOs, but it is of some. I also must admit to not caring much for most MMOs. I usually far prefer my tabletop adventures to that. I think there's a lot of potential to what PFO is aiming for, and hope that it retains the things I like about the PFRPG.
I believe they've already stated they're making a sandbox experience in the River Kingdoms where PCs can mass armies, build nations, and explore. While that certainly doesn't demand what I've outlined as my desire, it does imply that it wouldn't be unreasonable.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As a MMO crafter- I enjoyed the SWG model most compared to other games.
While gathering resources was not my favorite passtime (I eventually just purchased them from dedicated harvester/traders)- I did enjoy finding materials that added some variety to the items created.
For example, will we just have 'mithril' or will there be regional viens of it with every so slightly differing properties. They would still hold true to the classic properties players will expect to see in their mithril items, but also have some slightly different things tied to them. (hue, bonus extra weight reduction of 1-5%, as well as other minor bonuses)
Aside from the materials used, I also liked component construction, or stages. So instead of tossing leather straps, a chunk of metal & the click of a button- tah dah- you now have a longsword. I would like to see a quality blade creation system, as well as assembling the rest of the parts. This could be the time comsuming factor instead of waiting for a 5-10 minute 'creation' bar while you take a bathroom break.
I'm still on the fence about interactive crafting... I realize your skills should be a factor, but having to juggle creation like some sort of battle (EQ2, FFXIV) needs to use more character skill than player skill at button pressing.
Lastly, stock vendor items vs dungeon loot vs player crafted items.
I think the balance here should be the customizable aspect. You might get a random +1 martial weapon of blah bane that you could use, but are not focused/specilized in as loot from a dungeon. But if you go to player crafter, you can request a specific weapon with the enchantments you want on it. Sure you could find exactly what you are looking for adventuring (or find something someone else may want & sell it)- but there needs to be some balance so both are good ways to get gear. And not have one method be far more efficient than the other. This is a concern as a crafter (and an adventuerer) - that one way will be far better than the other.
I for one would play this game based on crafting alone if it followed a model like Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
Best crafting system ever. So needlessly complicated and time-consuming, yet it also required some strategy and thinking.
Honestly, I think part of the problem here is different expectations of what the game should be. Should Pathfinder Online be a world-modeling game with adventuring elements, or an adventuring game with world-modeling elements? And I think a sandbox game as they seem to be describing, where players can have a role in the economic and political landscape, should be the former.
This implies you must cater to those players who aren't playing adventurers, who want to be craftsmen and merchants and builders and community organizers, as well as those who just want to go kill monsters. In this case, crafting should be a rich and fulfilling activity with multiple stages of resource gathering, assembly, and time.
On the other hand, if you arrange all those other things solely to support the monster-slayers, you are making adventure-world. In this case, crafting should be fairly simple, and take little time away from the "real" game of killing and looting.
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
Honestly, I think part of the problem here is different expectations of what the game should be. Should Pathfinder Online be a world-modeling game with adventuring elements, or an adventuring game with world-modeling elements? And I think a sandbox game as they seem to be describing, where players can have a role in the economic and political landscape, should be the former.
This implies you must cater to those players who aren't playing adventurers, who want to be craftsmen and merchants and builders and community organizers, as well as those who just want to go kill monsters. In this case, crafting should be a rich and fulfilling activity with multiple stages of resource gathering, assembly, and time.
Decisions on such things are far from final at this point, of course, but many on the team see the world much as you do.
Goblinworks Founder
|
Honestly, I think part of the problem here is different expectations of what the game should be. Should Pathfinder Online be a world-modeling game with adventuring elements, or an adventuring game with world-modeling elements? And I think a sandbox game as they seem to be describing, where players can have a role in the economic and political landscape, should be the former.
This implies you must cater to those players who aren't playing adventurers, who want to be craftsmen and merchants and builders and community organizers, as well as those who just want to go kill monsters. In this case, crafting should be a rich and fulfilling activity with multiple stages of resource gathering, assembly, and time.
On the other hand, if you arrange all those other things solely to support the monster-slayers, you are making adventure-world. In this case, crafting should be fairly simple, and take little time away from the "real" game of killing and looting.
I am truly hoping to see the former rather than the later.
There are plenty of games out there at the moment that have crafting thrown in to support monster slayers. There aren't very many fantasy MMO's that support the former description however. I for one would love to see a game where crafting, farming and shopkeeping could be a deep and meaningful style of game play that models the world around them.|
|
How will it work, you go to the blacksmith, you say "I want to forge here", and your character stays here for two weeks?
Who will want to play a MMO like that?
That's an option, but certainly not the only one in what I suggest.
Let's say you want a sword. You could buy a sword. Or, you could buy metal, then go to a blacksmith and pay him to make you a sword with it. Or, you could go to a mine and mine for metal, then ask a blacksmith in town to use his forge for a small fee, and make your own sword. Depending on how skilled you are, this might take a little time, or a lot. Or, you could build your own forge (or commission one) to do the work with. Or any combination of these choices and more, really.
If that's too much to think about, you can always leave it to an NPC or another PC who does crafting to get your supplies from.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Interesting comment from Vic considering everything about Golarion bleeds adventure. I think the most rewarding element should be to Adventure. The Kingmaker adventure path allowed plenty of time for crafting and RP, but the majority of the content was designed to push PCs out of the castle and find Adventure!
I think that spirit should not be lost.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
As an avid crafter, I too hope that you are able to craft anything in game. But, I hope the crafting system is logical. Building a castle instantly because you have all the gold required to buy the materials is absurd.
If we are able to use gold to buy the materials necessary for crafting, why not also allow us to just go out an gather the materials ourselves. However, the purpose of most professions is to gather and/or refine materials to be used in crafting. I will be disappointed if they do not allow and make demands for these professions by creating a working player driven economy.
As for "world-modeling game with adventuring elements, or an adventuring game with world-modeling elements", empower the players enough and design the world correctly, and they will create their own adventuring elements. Dungeons? What are they, they are player built structures that have been abandoned and monsters or NPCs have moved in. This means crafts in the world should have at least some permanence (material of construction is an obvious decider for this) and monsters/NPCs could be given rule based migratory patterns. But...I am getting off-topic.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
This might sound strange, and possibly earn me some pitchforks to the back of the head, but I would love to see the 'best' weapons, armors and magical items in game be player crafted for the most part.
Yes, I said it. PLAYER CRAFTED. Most MMOs I have played tend to go "DERP! Level a profession, then cry tears of blood because all your hard work means jack-s$#% for 90% of the game!", and that irritates me a lot. On one hand, a randomised loot drop is part of what Table-Top gaming is about, with players having to use 'weird' items to survive then selling them later to get their desired items, or deciding that "Hey, this is kewl!" and changing their style to keep the item(s). On the other, being able to build not only your own character, but their gear, and thus tailor their attacks, defensive abilities and assorted to your own personal specifications (within reason of both Coding and Sanity) would be a great selling point!
Player wants an adamantite sword, but the RNG Gods disapprove and keep giving him Cold Iron. Player tracks down some adamantite ore, finds a decently skilled PC Blacksmith and lays out his plan.
Hopefully PC-Crafted items can be modified visually between 5-10 different 'skins' for each part of the model. Top/Middle/Base for weapons, Shoulder/Chest/Legs for armor etc.
PC now has his Adamantite Sword (already Masterwork quality) now it's time to track down an enchanter, and he's got a pouch full of materials for the enchantments after a few weeks of the RNG Gods playing keep-away. Another PC is found with the right skill and the right techniques, the sword gets a +3 Holy enchantment and our player goes out and starts making a real dent in the world.
Now, that example is a bit rushed, and there are many holes in the plan, but imagine that, yes, while Players can effectively 'gear up' by stabbing everything in a dungeon to death and bringing back the Princess to her father, the nature of an MMO means that the Random Number Generator will inevitably give the Players crappy items, or items none of them can possibly use.
Rather, the rewards coming in the form of masterwork weapons and armor and similar that can then be used by the players to make their own custom gear, would ensure that A) no wasted coding/gear and B), and this is the most important one to me, every player can make their own character unique, WITH THEIR OWN HANDS.
One of my biggest bug-bears with MMOs is that we always seem to end up an army of colour-coded units in our identical armors with our identical weapons and our identical attack rotations. We can't do much about the last part, but the first two we can.
Players crafting their own gear also creates a vibrant economy, with players being able to offer their services to not just themselves and their friends/guild members, but other players. While I can see the greedy abusing this system to spam whatever Auction House is put into play (and please, please, please put a cap on the Auction House system so the thriving gold-selling economy never gets more than a toe-hold in Pathfinder Online, I play Fantasy Games for just that, Fantasy. I don't want to work in an online sweatshop when playing on a new realm because there are fifty people buying up every low-level necessity of the crafting profession and selling them for 200 gold a single piece.) the flip-side is that Players can be challenged in turn by NPC 'Trades and Services Guilds' that also offer these services, albeit at a higher cost, but gold pumped into the 'NPC Guilds' will have a positive effect on the local economy, whereas players trading amongst themselves will have a positive effect on the Players, but less so on the local community.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Is there any chance a feature like that may be used?
There will almost certainly be characters that primarily craft (and perhaps sell) items and consumables. The best items and consumables at the lowest cost will be produced by the characters who focus on developing the necessary skills and abilities to focus on crafting.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
This might sound strange, and possibly earn me some pitchforks to the back of the head, but I would love to see the 'best' weapons, armors and magical items in game be player crafted for the most part.
This is exactly the plan. The way to get the best gear is to work within a harvesting/crafting/logistics network that has characters who have focused on being great at doing those things.
Note: Adventurers will be a type of "harvester", bringing all sorts of valuable and desirable resources out of very dangerous places that the crafters will drool over as they think of the interesting things that can be created with those resources....
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
This might sound strange, and possibly earn me some pitchforks to the back of the head, but I would love to see the 'best' weapons, armors and magical items in game be player crafted for the most part.This is exactly the plan. The way to get the best gear is to work within a harvesting/crafting/logistics network that has characters who have focused on being great at doing those things.
Note: Adventurers will be a type of "harvester", bringing all sorts of valuable and desirable resources out of very dangerous places that the crafters will drool over as they think of the interesting things that can be created with those resources....
This is very good news Ryan! I sincerely hope that crafting heads back to its more simpler routes of player driven economies to the degree that a player can choose crafting and trade as his main occupation.
Could you possible let us in on your thoughts on item decay? In the absence of full or partial loot, an item sink would obviously be required in order to fuel demand and I was wondering if you guys had anything in mind yet?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Could you possible let us in on your thoughts on item decay? In the absence of full or partial loot, an item sink would obviously be required in order to fuel demand and I was wondering if you guys had anything in mind yet?
This is really an issue that will get worked on later, but at the moment I can say that my opinion is that I'd like to see a 2-factor system like that being used in Skyrim - if you have a magic sword, it's always magic, but if you empower it with some consumable resource, it's even better. I think that solves a lot of problems in an elegant way.
And by the way, who said anything about not having full or partial looting?
I can't support this position strongly enough. The 'lost and forgotten treasures of another age' trope is so played out in fantasy. Specialized Craftsman should be the source of the best gear by far, not random dungeons (which may supply the necessary materials for some of the best gear to be brought to said Master Craftsman.)This might sound strange, and possibly earn me some pitchforks to the back of the head, but I would love to see the 'best' weapons, armors and magical items in game be player crafted for the most part.
Agreed especially since the lost and forgotten treasure is gainable by anyone with the time it should be that you go to a master blacksmith and then an enchanter.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
As such, I hope excelling in a craft is not easy. It should be on par with adventurers doing their thing. Yes, there will be crossover, but specializations would exist.
This said, the only way to insure crafts are always in demand is to make everything decay with use. Otherwise, eventually everyone will have a sword of uberness.
I also hope there is a way to "break down" crafts with a percent chance (perhaps even a REALLY small chance) of recovering some of the components used to make it. The rationale behind this is that some items, will be used to grind/practice crafting on. As I am also hoping for a realistic economy, sometimes it may not be worth it (or even possible) to sell items when the market is already flooded. I would hate to see them destroyed outright when it is more logical (for instance) to melt that sword down and reuse the metal you can salvage.
|
Goblinworks Founder
|
This is really an issue that will get worked on later, but at the moment I can say that my opinion is that I'd like to see a 2-factor system like that being used in Skyrim - if you have a magic sword, it's always magic, but if you empower it with some consumable resource, it's even better. I think that solves a lot of problems in an elegant way.
Could you possible let us in on your thoughts on item decay? In the absence of full or partial loot, an item sink would obviously be required in order to fuel demand and I was wondering if you guys had anything in mind yet?
I like the idea of this. The most profitable professions I have seen in recent years have always been the consumables. Anything that can produce item enchantments or potions. One of the things that always bothered me in recent games was that armor and weapon smith repairing items had been replaced by vendors.
I think Aion had a system where a player could "set up shop" and sell their crafted items. This would be great if they had an option to "repair" damaged goods at a base cost.
And by the way, who said anything about not having full or partial looting?
Squeee ^_^
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I really hope that crafting is not limited to items. While making swords and potions are both useful and important to the overall economy and play of the game, I would like crafting to become much more.
Want to get together and build a wall around a city? Craft it.
Is there an epic level PC who owns a town and wants their own marble statue of themselves? Craft it.
Need more dock space within a shipyard of a major city port? Craft it.
Is there an impassable river which annoys every Player that encounters it? Do you wish the developers would have put a bridge here? Craft it.
|
I really hope that crafting is not limited to items. While making swords and potions are both useful and important to the overall economy and play of the game, I would like crafting to become much more.
Want to get together and build a wall around a city? Craft it.
Is there an epic level PC who owns a town and wants their own marble statue of themselves? Craft it.
Need more dock space within a shipyard of a major city port? Craft it.
Is there an impassable river which annoys every Player that encounters it? Do you wish the developers would have put a bridge here? Craft it.
Now step back and think how each of your ideas may be exploited in an online environment full of jerks such as myself.
I'll start with using wall bricks to write <REDACTED> in some highly visible place and continue with blocking entire areas of game with player-made constructions. And have my 50 buddies do the same at once.
|
|
See, that's not a problem as long as constructions in the game can be destroyed or climbed over or dug under.I really hope that crafting is not limited to items. While making swords and potions are both useful and important to the overall economy and play of the game, I would like crafting to become much more.
Want to get together and build a wall around a city? Craft it.
Is there an epic level PC who owns a town and wants their own marble statue of themselves? Craft it.
Need more dock space within a shipyard of a major city port? Craft it.
Is there an impassable river which annoys every Player that encounters it? Do you wish the developers would have put a bridge here? Craft it.
Now step back and think how each of your ideas may be exploited in an online environment full of jerks such as myself.
I'll start with using wall bricks to write <REDACTED> in some highly visible place and continue with blocking entire areas of game with player-made constructions. And have my 50 buddies do the same at once.
Don't worry, we will have a team that will be on that 24/7. And another team ganking whoever tries to destroy *our* creations - I sure do hope that attacking *my* wall will flag the assailant as a valid PVP target :)
You guys really don't know what one determined group of sociopaths can do with the right tools and amount of time.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I really hope that crafting is not limited to items. While making swords and potions are both useful and important to the overall economy and play of the game, I would like crafting to become much more.
Want to get together and build a wall around a city? Craft it.
Is there an epic level PC who owns a town and wants their own marble statue of themselves? Craft it.
Need more dock space within a shipyard of a major city port? Craft it.
Is there an impassable river which annoys every Player that encounters it? Do you wish the developers would have put a bridge here? Craft it.
Now step back and think how each of your ideas may be exploited in an online environment full of jerks such as myself.
I'll start with using wall bricks to write <REDACTED> in some highly visible place and continue with blocking entire areas of game with player-made constructions. And have my 50 buddies do the same at once.
If you are going to go quarry the rock or bake the mud to make bricks and then move it from its source to where you want your construction, and defend this endeavor from others, I say that is not an exploit, it is playing the game. In which case, I respect your right to build whatever you want in whatever shape you want. Granted, I also support being able to reuse building supplies, so if you want to spend weeks collecting and defending a position so you and your buddies can write "I will pwn u" with stones on the ground, go ahead, I hope we are not able to see the ground from the air in which no one can see what you are writing anyways...but me and mine will just wait for you to get bored and leave, then build a fortress or tower out the stones you quarried and moved for us. Thanks!
And as different as labeling yourself a sociopath makes you feel, a group of sociopaths is a paradox. You are a lawful group with laws that conflict with that of "normal" society...more power to you.
|
|
If you are going to go quarry the rock or bake the mud to make bricks and then move it from its source to where you want your construction, and defend this endeavor from others, I say that is not an exploit, it is playing the game. In which case, I respect your right to build whatever you want in whatever shape you want. Granted, I also support being able to reuse building supplies, so if you want to spend weeks collecting and defending a position so you and your buddies can write "I will pwn u" with stones on the ground, go ahead, I hope we are not able to see the ground from the air in which no one can see what you are writing anyways...but me and mine will just wait for you to get bored and leave, then build a fortress or tower out the stones you quarried and moved for us. Thanks!I really hope that crafting is not limited to items. While making swords and potions are both useful and important to the overall economy and play of the game, I would like crafting to become much more.
Want to get together and build a wall around a city? Craft it.
Is there an epic level PC who owns a town and wants their own marble statue of themselves? Craft it.
Need more dock space within a shipyard of a major city port? Craft it.
Is there an impassable river which annoys every Player that encounters it? Do you wish the developers would have put a bridge here? Craft it.
Now step back and think how each of your ideas may be exploited in an online environment full of jerks such as myself.
I'll start with using wall bricks to write <REDACTED> in some highly visible place and continue with blocking entire areas of game with player-made constructions. And have my 50 buddies do the same at once.
We'll build a wall around your fortress so that you can't move out without attacking *our* wall. And no, we won't get bored. Making others wish we never existed is something that floats our boats.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Well, as I mentioned, these behaviors can easily be overcome by requiring semi-realistic crafting. Want to build a wall? YOu need to make each component of that wall, you need to quarry each brick (or each x size section) and then you have to move it. Considering the strength of characters and their endurance and movement based roughly upon PF rules, how many people how fast could move multi-ton bricks? Yes it could be done...and even quicker with magic. But It is never going to be an EASY or FAST task. If you have the thousands it would take to build a wall overnight, then once again...more power to you and we deserve to have our town/city/castle smashed. You would be a force of nature in the game...a roving force of locusts...Ancient Monguls (the likes of Genghis Khan)...barbarians...living off the spoils of conquest. I still fail to see how this is exploiting or wrecking my game.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I still fail to see how this is exploiting or wrecking my game.
Then Gorbacz wouldnt do it to you - in your case he and his buddies would follow you around asking you what you thought of Obamacare or some other immersion breaking behaviour.
Online jerks are jerks and they're good at working out what bugs people and targetting the right people.
I like the thrust of anti-griefing comments by the developers - I dont think a game can be both newbie-friendly and totally unmoderated. (But I have a relatively low view of basic online behaviour, unfortunately).
Personally, I'm one of those hoping for the ability to build stuff and make stuff, but I think there are real problems with giving players much power in the gameworld, unfortunately. I think without some heavily constrained systems in place, too much ability to influence the environment will encourage such 'fun' as Gorbacz described.
If you have the thousands it would take to build a wall overnight
This building system sounds fun and playable.
Or the Great Wall of China!
I want to build a structure that can be seen from Castrovel...