Is there any way to make two weapon fighting work with a low Dex say 13 max ?
I'm not so much looking for more iterative attacks maybe just something to benefit from using two weapons instead of one two handed or a sword and board.
E.g. two weapon defence would fall into the type of thing I'm looking for.
Two weapon rend would also be there if it wasn't for the Dex requirement
Play a Ranger. It'll slow down your acquisition of the feats a little bit but it's perfectly doable.
Yup. All the '2WF Feats' like 2 Weapon Defense pretty much only apply when you are actually using 2WF, i.e. have made extra offhand attacks usually as a Full-Round Action (unless 2WF Fighter Archetype). Anybody can hold 2 weapons in each hand and not make any extra attacks, but then you wouldn't gain the benefit of 2 Weapon Defense, etc. If you aren't into Ranger, you can do the holding 2 weapons but not technically 2 weapon fighting thing, I just don't think there's Feats that build off of that... You still benefit from having different weapons to use as they are advantageous and won't be phased by a disarm, but basically you will be fighting 1 Handed style. If you choose a Double Weapon like Gnome Hooked Hammer or Dwarven Urgrosh you have the choice of 2 Handing either end whichever is more advantageous... Each end potentially having different weapon enchantments is also useful, though you have to pay for this, and are basically only saving a Feat for Quickdraw. Still, if you aren't buying the normal 2WF Feats, you have alot of Feats free for anything else you want, which is nice.
Oh sure, go fighter with x2 short swords. That way when you take weapon focus and weapon spec it works for both. No need for dex with that build.
Oh sure, go fighter with x2 short swords.
That way when you take weapon focus and weapon spec it works for both. No need for dex with that build.
That doesn't sound so hot to me.
Two-weapon fighting is all about extra attacks, plain and simple. The idea of it is that you flurry your weapons around to deal more damage. Unless you're using home-brewed rules, or some splat book from 3.x that I'm unfamiliar with you're either going to have to play a ranger to be effective with low dex or suck. Horribly.
That said, rangers benefit from having a mediocre dex since they have to wear medium armor to gain the benefits of their feats, even if they're proficient with heavy armor.
Play a ranger, use the bonus feats to gain tw-fighting, improved twf, and greater twf when you feel your base attack bonus is high enough
I recommend using a two-handed weapon like a greatsword for level 1, getting tw-fighting at level 2, improved twf at level 6, and greater twf at level 10 or 14)
You're also going to want to spend a feat on heavy armor proficiency and find a suit of mithral full plate as soon as possible. After that your best option is to find other ways to raise your dex if you want higher AC.
There's a full guide on a two-weapon fighting ranger here
edit:I know you're not looking for ways to increase the number of attacks, but that basically is the whole point of using two weapons. If you really want to have flavor a character to use two weapons but only attacks with one you might want to go with the free-hand fighter and multi-class into duelist and say that you have a "dagger" in your off hand that can't be thrown, sundered or disarmed, even if mechanically it's treated like an empty hand
edit edit: duelists need high dex though. And also usually focus on making critical hits.
You could also look at doing a Sohei monk/weapon master fighter build or using any cleric varient and the crusaders flurry feat. While not two weapon fighting you gain the extra attacks and can wield in both hands if you wanted two.
Okay so trying to pull off a 15 point buy Strength Magus Spellblade Hexcrafter Bladebound (with a homebrew on the bladebound being a gauntlet not scimitar), with only a small investment into TWF is pretty much not going to work with what's available.
well not that it won't work but that trying to TWF instead of just having the force athame as a utility weapon is not going to be possible.
Syntesist - broken as always...
Get a few extra arms - multiweapon fighting.
Weapon - sabre, sawtooth - again weapon focus and weapon specialisation works on both main hand and off hand weapons.
Red mantis assasin could be worth looking into...
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Okay so trying to pull off a 15 point buy Strength Magus Spellblade Hexcrafter Bladebound (with a homebrew on the bladebound being a gauntlet not scimitar), with only a small investment into TWF is pretty much not going to work with what's available.
well not that it won't work but that trying to TWF instead of just having the force athame as a utility weapon is not going to be possible.
By the class definition, a magus has to have a free hand in order to perform a lot of their important class skills. Holding a send weapon would preclude you form being able to do most Magus-ish things.
By the class definition, a magus has to have a free hand in order to perform a lot of their important class skills. Holding a send weapon would preclude you form being able to do most Magus-ish things.Okay so trying to pull off a 15 point buy Strength Magus Spellblade Hexcrafter Bladebound (with a homebrew on the bladebound being a gauntlet not scimitar), with only a small investment into TWF is pretty much not going to work with what's available.
well not that it won't work but that trying to TWF instead of just having the force athame as a utility weapon is not going to be possible.
Spellblade is the exception you get a force athame in your casting hand which doesn't interfere with casting
Another thing alot of people are often forgetting:
Items that grant enhancement boni to an attribute are considered permanent after 24h, and can be used to qualify for feats and such.
If by any means you later don't qualify anymore (taking the item of for example, or entering an anti magic field) you lose the benefit of the feat till you qualify again, then the feat works again.
So with 13 dex you'd need a +2 dex belt to qualify for TWF, a +4 for ITWF and a +6 for GTWF (which might not be worth it since it's at a -12 then).
Not feasable at 1st level I guess but at 3rd you might have enough money to get it.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-a rchetypes/monk-of-the-empty-hand
You treat anything you hold as an improvised weapon, and you can flurry with improvised weapons.
Another thing alot of people are often forgetting:
Items that grant enhancement boni to an attribute are considered permanent after 24h, and can be used to qualify for feats and such.If by any means you later don't qualify anymore (taking the item of for example, or entering an anti magic field) you lose the benefit of the feat till you qualify again, then the feat works again.
So with 13 dex you'd need a +2 dex belt to qualify for TWF, a +4 for ITWF and a +6 for GTWF (which might not be worth it since it's at a -12 then).
Not feasable at 1st level I guess but at 3rd you might have enough money to get it.
only issue with that is if you get hit by a disjunction, dispelling magic, antimagic field. Captured and gear stolen then you've got a slew of feats you can't use
its a risk.
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Exotic Weapon Proficiency Battle Poi.
Another thing alot of people are often forgetting:
Items that grant enhancement boni to an attribute are considered permanent after 24h, and can be used to qualify for feats and such.If by any means you later don't qualify anymore (taking the item of for example, or entering an anti magic field) you lose the benefit of the feat till you qualify again, then the feat works again.
So with 13 dex you'd need a +2 dex belt to qualify for TWF, a +4 for ITWF and a +6 for GTWF (which might not be worth it since it's at a -12 then).
Not feasable at 1st level I guess but at 3rd you might have enough money to get it.
only issue with that is if you get hit by a disjunction, dispelling magic, antimagic field. Captured and gear stolen then you've got a slew of feats you can't use
its a risk.
I know. But if you want the benefit of a feat without meeting the prerequisites for said feat, you have to make compromises. Be that multiclassing into a class you don't want, which then carries it's own restrictions and problems, or relying on magic items.
In turn you have other attributes higher most likely, probably a good strength actually (which most TWF don't have), so you can actually deal with the temporary loss of those feats somewhat.|
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3.5 samurai from CW
1 level cleric with nature and animal domains
prestige ranger from 3.5 UA
you bypass the twf needed wit the 2 swords as 1 granting you twf, but only with katana and the wakawaka
prestige ranger grants you improved twf and greater twf as bonus feats . so you can get the extra attacks, but if you aren't using the katana and wacky then you take the standard penalties for not having the twf feat
remember the first feat only removes penalties. the later ones grant extra attacks. anyone with enough limbs can twf, just at negatives
There was already a massive debate over this. 'Wielding' in regards to two weapon fighting means attacking with them both.TWD gives the shield bonus for wielding two weapons, not for attacking with them, the idea is to use the two weapons to block certain attacks, to do that it is not necessary to attack with them
that said I just played a 15 Dex double-weapon Ranger(Skirmisher) and it was fun and effective. with 15 Dex you can take most of the TW feats as regular ones and the feats with higher Dex req. as Ranger bonus feats (and you get all the extra attacks as soon as would be otherwise possible)
Yeah, this is kind of vague, but I THINK (?) Paizo has weighed in on the side that Kyrt is talking of.
The problem I see with Tobias' side of things is that anybody wearing Armor Spikes can seemingly continually use 2WD,even if they never attack with the Armor Spikes EVER in their entire life-time.
On the other hand, 2WD also applies when using Total Defense which obviously doesn't include ANY attacks...
Honestly, I don't know if the wording/implications were looked at in complete depth when the Feat was written.
Is there any way to make two weapon fighting work with a low Dex say 13 max ?
I'm not so much looking for more iterative attacks maybe just something to benefit from using two weapons instead of one two handed or a sword and board.
E.g. two weapon defence would fall into the type of thing I'm looking for.
Two weapon rend would also be there if it wasn't for the Dex requirement
Glad someone mentioned my guide :)
If you wanna do it as a Magus: Take arcane accuracy, your to hit is gonna suck otherwise. Don't Take Gtr TWF on a magus. You are a 3/4BAB Class so it will miss like, all the time. Use a belt if you want to satisfy dex for ITWF.