Free the Slaves


Serpent's Skull


Party:

Played by 5 13-14-year olds (my stepson and his friends), concentration can be an issue.

Half-elven fighter1/rogue3
Half-elven summoner4
Elven oracle2/brabarian2
Gnome bard4
Human (Mwangi) Monk4

As the group sailed from Smuggler's Shiv to Eleder, I described the city as it looked from the sea. I pointed out, in particular, the Grallus Lock, where they could see the slaves being kept. Naturally, the LG immediately announced that he was going to free the slaves.

First thing he did was blow all his cash from Smuggler's Shiv on buying, then freeing, as many slaves as he could get. Then he asked about the Grallus Lock, what kind of guards they had, how the slaves were kept, and how he could get them out. That was when I called it a night.

Two weeks later, I'd decided that the slaves were kept on narrow pathways and platforms floating on the water. This meant that many men were clinging on to planks while the weak, the women and the children were on the rafts. I'd assigned some guards in some towers, some on a platform between the two piers where the slaves were kept, and a few animals - guard dogs and a hidden cage of sharks to be released if things went really sour.

In a running battle the group managed to kill all the guards and the monk even took on the three angry sharks before too many slaves were killed.

And then I skipped the Freemen revolt. I think I need to keep things a little simple for the group.


I wonder why every LG character immediately assumes it would be his duty do battle the slavers and city guards over the freedom of the slaves. Slavery is currently legal in Eleder, there is no law against it and the people trading them might just be simple folk going after their business.

Of course I get it from an ethical, modern point of view, but still I don't think waltzing in slaying everyone who pursues a legitimate (if to modern people unethical) business is really the LG thing to do.

Just my two coppers.


True, but to me, that's the difference between Lawful Neutral and Lawful Good :-)


Siobharek wrote:
True, but to me, that's the difference between Lawful Neutral and Lawful Good :-)

Lawful Good means you get to destroy a major industry, taking out most of the economy for the area. While simultaneous releasing a large number of people to the "freedom" of tribes that are in balance with their surroundings and will now be forced to cope with increased numbers most likely by going to war for larger territories. Then there's the riots when the price of everything goes up due to increased labor costs leading to backlash against the local anti-slavery activists who had been work towards abolution via more sensible forms of protest...

I don't like slavery any more than you do but decimating an entire region for several generations seems like overkill for Lawful Good. Surely a Lawful Good would work to abolish slavery through legal means. Most likely by improving the conditions in which slaves were legally to kept to the point where it became economically advantageous to free them and hire them at minimum wage.

Liberty's Edge

Siobharek wrote:
Naturally, the LG immediately announced that he was going to free the slaves.

At first, I thought that you mistyped and meant CG. Because, really, freeing slaves in a place where slavery is legal undoubtedly falls under the aegis of Chaotic acts.

Quote:
First thing he did was blow all his cash from Smuggler's Shiv on buying, then freeing, as many slaves as he could get.

That part is quite good for a LG character : freeing slaves while respecting the local laws and customs.

The following part, ie illegally freeing the slaves, and even worse killing the guards who were probably just earning their family's food, is definitely not Lawful IMO.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

For a group of 13-14 year olds, playing Big Damn Slave freeing heroes might not be a bad thing to encourage. These freed slaves might need jobs now, fortunately there's an expedition to a lost city that might Present a good opportunity for the PCs.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
For a group of 13-14 year olds, playing Big Damn Slave freeing heroes might not be a bad thing to encourage. These freed slaves might need jobs now, fortunately there's an expedition to a lost city that might Present a good opportunity for the PCs.

Oh what a great idea! Yoinked!

And to the others who mention what LG might also be, you're right! They should probably have left it well alone. But Dudemeister hits in on the head: The 13-14 year-olds only wanted to take names and kick righteous slave-freeing butt, and I was only too happy to oblige. Not least because I'm also running Kingmaker, and I've just about had it with the two LGs, the two NGs and the N discussing the nature of "unrepentant banditry"...


Siobharek wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
For a group of 13-14 year olds, playing Big Damn Slave freeing heroes might not be a bad thing to encourage. These freed slaves might need jobs now, fortunately there's an expedition to a lost city that might Present a good opportunity for the PCs.

Oh what a great idea! Yoinked!

And to the others who mention what LG might also be, you're right! They should probably have left it well alone. But Dudemeister hits in on the head: The 13-14 year-olds only wanted to take names and kick righteous slave-freeing butt, and I was only too happy to oblige. Not least because I'm also running Kingmaker, and I've just about had it with the two LGs, the two NGs and the N discussing the nature of "unrepentant banditry"...

Funny you should mention unrepentant banditry. In our first few Kingmaker sessions we actually captured one of the bandits. He repented, and about a year or so of playing later, is now the kingdom's duke.

In your game's case, you may actually want to play up the un-lawful side pointed out by a few people. You could have some of the slavers families show up and ask for restitution for the crimes done to their families. To make up some of the costs the party would pay up front, could be returned to them later in rewards from some of the slaves who happen to find something the party may have overlooked, making it worth it to save them in the first place.


Great Wyrm Red Dragon wrote:
In your game's case, you may actually want to play up the un-lawful side pointed out by a few people. You could have some of the slavers families show up and ask for restitution for the crimes done to their families. To make up some of the costs the party would pay up front, could be returned to them later in rewards from some of the slaves who happen to find something the party may have overlooked, making it worth it to save them in the first place.

Yeah, but why? I gotta admit I hate alignment with a passion (spoiled from years of playing Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved), but I can see where alignment works. I will definitely use the fact that there are guards' families who need looking after, and that there are slaves looking for a job - hmm, might even cause resentment that would make the Sargavan Expedition an opponent... - but I'd really like to let the player's actions stand as unabashedly heroic and, well, right.


Siobharek wrote:
Great Wyrm Red Dragon wrote:
In your game's case, you may actually want to play up the un-lawful side pointed out by a few people. You could have some of the slavers families show up and ask for restitution for the crimes done to their families. To make up some of the costs the party would pay up front, could be returned to them later in rewards from some of the slaves who happen to find something the party may have overlooked, making it worth it to save them in the first place.
Yeah, but why? I gotta admit I hate alignment with a passion (spoiled from years of playing Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved), but I can see where alignment works. I will definitely use the fact that there are guards' families who need looking after, and that there are slaves looking for a job - hmm, might even cause resentment that would make the Sargavan Expedition an opponent... - but I'd really like to let the player's actions stand as unabashedly heroic and, well, right.

I can understand your feelings, but what they did should have consequences, particularly for players of that age who are rapidly heading towards being forced to take legal responsibility for their own actions. It's too easy to encourage players to act without thinking. By all means have the ex-slaves view them as heroes (cutting the cost of wages for an expedition for example) but I would say that the rest of the city would be less welcoming (increasing the cost of supplies and making guides harder to acquire - Giving a reason to look for Nkechi - for example) after such an act.


Nullpunkt wrote:

I wonder why every LG character immediately assumes it would be his duty do battle the slavers and city guards over the freedom of the slaves. Slavery is currently legal in Eleder, there is no law against it and the people trading them might just be simple folk going after their business.

Of course I get it from an ethical, modern point of view, but still I don't think waltzing in slaying everyone who pursues a legitimate (if to modern people unethical) business is really the LG thing to do.

Just my two coppers.

Because they are 13 - 14 year olds who have not yet learned to be as cynical as yourself?

And plenty of people in ancient times thought slavery was bad. It's not just a modern concept. Do you think a slave from 1300 thought slavery was any better than did a slave from 1862? Spartacus seemed pretty pissed off about it, himself.


prd wrote:
Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties. Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it.

(emphasis mine)

I still think it is quite obviously a chaotic act to put yourself above the law because of your moral or ethical opinion. I didn't say noone would take offense by the concept of slavery, it's just that Spartacus were chaotic in PF terms.


Bob790 wrote:
I can understand your feelings, but what they did should have consequences, particularly for players of that age who are rapidly heading towards being forced to take legal responsibility for their own actions. It's too easy to encourage players to act without thinking. By all means have the ex-slaves view them as heroes (cutting the cost of wages for an expedition for example) but I would say that the rest of the city would be less welcoming (increasing the cost of supplies and making guides harder to acquire - Giving a reason to look for Nkechi - for example) after such an act.

I should indeed have done that - I can still let them feel the displeasure of the Sargavan government. I will probably go easy on the "taking responsibility for your actions"-part. My poor stepson is getting quite enough of that as it is...


Nullpunkt wrote:
prd wrote:
Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties. Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it.

(emphasis mine)

I still think it is quite obviously a chaotic act to put yourself above the law because of your moral or ethical opinion. I didn't say noone would take offense by the concept of slavery, it's just that Spartacus were chaotic in PF terms.

I wouldn't say that. Sparticus was a slave who didn't care for being a slave. Nothing Chaotic or Lawful about not wanting to be a slave.


Siobharek wrote:
I will probably go easy on the "taking responsibility for your actions"-part. My poor stepson is getting quite enough of that as it is...

The great thing about RP is that you don't have to tell him to take responsibility, just let him see consequences (both good and bad if possible) and see how he reacts. If you did that in a real world situation, real people might suffer as a result.

Obviously this is pure conjecture. I have no real experience with such things, as all my players are much older and deeply chaotic evil regardless of character (one of them attempted to sell Gelik).

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