Cure for Lycanthropy


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

Dear Paizonians,

I have a situation in my Shackled City campaign, where a player has contracted lycanthropy (from a wererat) without knowing it.

I've researched the possible cures I could find, but none of them seems to work, as several days have passed (at least three, possibly upwards to a week, but don't have my campaign log at hand at the moment).

Belladonna, ingested within 1 hour, allows another save.

Alternatively, Heal or Remove Disease (cast by 12th level caster) will cure it, if cast within three days (which most likely is up).

Have I missed any cures, short of Miracle/Wish?

Thanks,
Bruno

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Raise dead. You would have to kill him first though.

Dark Archive

Hmmm...yes, of course...don't know if he'd like that prospect, though...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Would not remove curse work?

Dark Archive

Would it? Asking, because I genuinely don't know. Lycanthropy doesn't say anything on the matter, the spell doesn't really either. Lycanthropy is described as a "curse or disease", though...

Would the 12th level caster level still be a requirement in your opinion?


Depends on the GM. Wolfsbane gives another for save, no matter of how long it has been.


Yeah, being a fat of Lycanthropy in general (YAY Natures Rage!) I noticed this as well. There is no cure past 7 days any more.

Dark Archive

Blue Star wrote:
Depends on the GM. Wolfsbane gives another for save, no matter of how long it has been.

Isn't Wolfsbane and Belladonna the same thing? If it is, it only allows another save within an hour.

If there aren't any rules legit ways, I may make one up, just want to "drink from the fountain of wisdom", before I make a ruling in that case.


Bruno Kristensen wrote:
Blue Star wrote:
Depends on the GM. Wolfsbane gives another for save, no matter of how long it has been.

Isn't Wolfsbane and Belladonna the same thing? If it is, it only allows another save within an hour.

If there aren't any rules legit ways, I may make one up, just want to "drink from the fountain of wisdom", before I make a ruling in that case.

No, they aren't the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropa_belladonna

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aconitum

They aren't even related.

Dark Archive

Blue Star wrote:
Bruno Kristensen wrote:
Blue Star wrote:
Depends on the GM. Wolfsbane gives another for save, no matter of how long it has been.

Isn't Wolfsbane and Belladonna the same thing? If it is, it only allows another save within an hour.

If there aren't any rules legit ways, I may make one up, just want to "drink from the fountain of wisdom", before I make a ruling in that case.

No, they aren't the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropa_belladonna

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aconitum

They aren't even related.

I stand corrected. Thanks, that should work, then :)


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Would not remove curse work?

Magical disease and curses are not cleared by Raise Dead.

Best bet, put a silver blade/arrowhead/bolt into him (take your pick) and make sure you bury him deep.

Dark Archive

Actually, looked around a bit more:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/belladonnaWolfsbaneLycanthropyCure

Apparently, in 3.5 Belladonna and Wolfsbane were the same, which probably caused my confusion...and the verdict is still out...oh well...putting the DM's hat on and trying to find some in game solution.


That's a 3.5 ruling, Pathfinder isn't 3.5, heck it's not even Dungeons and Dragons. Which means you aren't subject to it's rules.


Bruno Kristensen wrote:

Actually, looked around a bit more:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/belladonnaWolfsbaneLycanthropyCure

Apparently, in 3.5 Belladonna and Wolfsbane were the same, which probably caused my confusion...and the verdict is still out...oh well...putting the DM's hat on and trying to find some in game solution.

Well, breaking with the rules you can always go authentic (as authentic as it gets with lycanthropes) and go full on exorcism. A long drawn out ritual of sorts (which may still kill the PC) which purges the body of the evil spirit.

Of course if the guy was sort of evil or very neutral from the start forget it, the Shift will start even faster.

Just an out, with a historic (earth) precedent. Considering the time which has alread passed I would not make it too easy.

That is the whole fear/danger aspect of fighting lycanthropes.

Dark Archive

He's an inquisitor of Saint Cuthbert (playing in Greyhawk), so not that evil, no.

The exorcism may work...I will think more about this.

Blue Star: True, I'm not saying that 3.5 should take precedence, just that it may be a carry over. Wolfsbane (under Poison) doesn't mention any effect against Lycanthropy at all (it is only mentioned in the Lycanthrope template), while Belladonna specifically has a text about working against Lycanthropy (but only for a limited period of time) which suggests it may be a mistake or a remnant of 3.5.

Anyways, thanks for the inputs. I'll contemplate what to do with this case of "Call of the Wild (or Sewers)" :)


There might be ONE possible cure for lycanthropy; Vampirism.

Becoming a vampire is said to cure all diseases. Once a vampire, you can then be raised and BAM, finally human again.

Dark Archive

And they just killed the only (known) vampire in the area...the irony :D


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If you are going to invent a way to cure lycanthropy, I would take a page from the old 2e Van Richten's guides. Basically, a special ritual involving remove curse can break it, but only if the nautural (not infected) lycanthrope that is the source of the infection (or chain of infection) is first killed. Maybe someone has the book on hand or remembers it better than I do. Curing lycanthropy in Ravenloft was not easy.


Taking 2 levels of paladin would fix it.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

There might be ONE possible cure for lycanthropy; Vampirism.

Becoming a vampire is said to cure all diseases. Once a vampire, you can then be raised and BAM, finally human again.

In skyrim that works in reverse I found out.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I got it, reincarnate, it will cost you 1280gp.


Are you playing in Pathfinder or 3.5e?

In Pathfinder, I haven't seen that wolfsbane only works within 1 hour rule. It just allows a second saving throw. Classic Horrors Revisited says people will try ingesting wolfsbane multiple times in an effort to cure themselves, some even dying of wolfsbane poisoning. Wolfsbane (aka monkshood) is not the same as belladonna (aka deadly nightshade), but both are toxic.

Don't forget Remove Curse. In 3.5e, it only works during the 3 days of the full moon. In Pathfinder, Classic Horrors Revisited indicates Remove Curse only works on werewolves while the afflicted werewolf is in hybrid or animal form.

Of course that's werewolves, not wererats, but I'm not aware of there being mechanical differences between kinds of lycanthropes concerning the curing of lycanthropy.


Talonhawke wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

There might be ONE possible cure for lycanthropy; Vampirism.

Becoming a vampire is said to cure all diseases. Once a vampire, you can then be raised and BAM, finally human again.

In skyrim that works in reverse I found out.

That makes no sense, but okay good for them.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder #45 (Broken Moon) has an article that expands on lycanthropy, including clarified rules for curing one who has contracted the disease. To sum it up, you can be only be cured by a remove disease or heal spell cast by a 12th level caster* within the first three days of contracting lycanthropy - any longer and the disease can only be cured while the curse is active. Wolfsbane allows a new save, provided you survive the effects of the poison.

*A scroll prepared at 12th level (not just by a 12th level caster) will also suffice.


Can you cure lycanthropy if they were bron with it?


It's not a curse if they were born with it, I would think, because they have been dealing with animal instincts since birth and have meshed both animal and humanoid together in a way that allows complete control.


Azten wrote:

It's not a curse if they were born with it, I would think, because they have been dealing with animal instincts since birth and have meshed both animal and humanoid together in a way that allows complete control.

It isn't a curse if you were born with it, at least not in any previous editions. The earlier Van Helsing Guides were awesome. If you've access, a definite place to plumb for ideas.

That said, folklore is a breadbasket of ideas for werewolf(rat)ism.

And /that/ said, the story, enjoyment of the players is the thing. Hunting down the original "sire" is classic, as-is the old witch-woman, the ancient relic crafted long ago for such a purpose (and held in the lair of x, where all PCs will risk succumbing, though once acquired, they would all be cured).


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This is the Pathfinder Rules forum though, so I think rules that pertain to Pathfinder are what is being sought.

There is no specified cure for a natural lycanthrope. They were born with it and they're stuck with it, basically.

As brreitz said, this information is in Pathfinder Adventure Path #45. It's on page 71 to 72 in the Ecology of the Lycanthrope article.

Pathfinder #45 presents 3 methods of curing lycanthropy for an afflicted lycanthrope:

1.) Remove Disease or Heal spell cast by a cleric of 12th level or higher can cure lycanthropy, but only within 3 days of the disease being contracted. (The description actually specifies "by a cleric of 12th level of higher" but I'd be inclined to interpret that as meaning any casting/wand/scroll/item with a caster level of at least 12.)
2.) After this time "magic such as Remove Curse" can still cure the lycanthropy but only while the lycanthrope is in one of its alternate forms. (The book says "when the victim is fully transformed into a were-creature.") Note that this says "magic such as Remove Curse," which would include not just Remove Curse. The spell Break Enchantment also has some ability to remove curses.
3.) Wolfsbane allows a person to make a new saving throw to purge themselves of the lycanthropy. The character has to consume the poison and suffer the effects. If the afflicted lycanthrope survives, they get a second saving throw at the same DC as when the lycanthropy was first contracted. If the saving throw is a success, the lycanthropy is cured. If it is a failure, there is no further effect from that exposure to the wolfsbane. The wolfsbane may be attempted multiple times though, with each dose of the poison allowing for another saving throw.

Classic Horrors Revisited mentions undead lycanthropes:
On a side note, I'm not sure whether becoming a vampire cures lycanthropy or not. In Classic Horrors Revisited it is pointed out that some lycanthropes that become ghouls retain their lycanthropy while some lycanthropes lose their lycanthropy when they become ghouls. No specific mention is made of vampires that were formerly werewolves. (In my campaign I'd allow vampiric werewolves because I like the idea of vampires with hybrid forms that can inflict lycanthropy.)

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