Is there a maximum number of spell buffs?


Rules Questions

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Is there a maximum number of spell buffs one player can have in effect on their character?

I'm thinking of creating a house rule that limits it to 4.

This applies to a 10th level campaign we are starting.

Let me know if there is a rule, article, or link to this topic.

Dark Archive

kid america wrote:

Is there a maximum number of spell buffs one player can have in effect on their character?

I'm thinking of creating a house rule that limits it to 4.

This applies to a 10th level campaign we are starting.

Let me know if there is a rule, article, or link to this topic.

So far as I know there are none. From a practical nature, though, you need to note the stacking rules (bonuses of the same type do not stack).

At that level, you should also be dealing with a good number of spellcasters in the opposition, so there should be a good number of Dispel Magic spells out there. One casting of Dispel Magic (in targeted mode) can strip away any number of buffs...

Another practical limitation is casting time. Most buffs don't last that long (take Bull's Strength, for example, at 1 min/level). It is unlikely that it will be useful through too many encounters... especially if the players take the time to search, heal up, etc., after an encounter. If the GM is allowing the players to fully buff up before entering an encounter, hopefully a good number of those encounters don't happen!

Example... the party approaches a door, during their "delve". The rogue listens, and hears something going on beyond the door. Paranoid and bloodthirsty as they are, the party's spellcasters start buffing up the group. As the rogue opens to the door prior to the fighter to bursting into the room, the wizard casts his last buff (Haste). The party is startled to see... nothing! In the middle of the room was tied a Contingent Major Image, which made the sounds of a group of monsters chatting.

Or, as they pass through the room's threshhold (which was trapped, but on the other side), each is hit with a targetted Dispel Magic.. stripping them of their buffs...

If, on the other hand, they sit back before entering combat and buff, the GM should be doing stuff to them while buffing... perhaps the enemies casters are buffing, summoning monsters, or even just blasting away with fireballs! Their fighters are charging in, archers are readying actions to disrupt the casting of spells, etc.


Silbeg wrote:
kid america wrote:

Is there a maximum number of spell buffs one player can have in effect on their character?

I'm thinking of creating a house rule that limits it to 4.

This applies to a 10th level campaign we are starting.

Let me know if there is a rule, article, or link to this topic.

So far as I know there are none. From a practical nature, though, you need to note the stacking rules (bonuses of the same type do not stack).

At that level, you should also be dealing with a good number of spellcasters in the opposition, so there should be a good number of Dispel Magic spells out there. One casting of Dispel Magic (in targeted mode) can strip away any number of buffs...

Another practical limitation is casting time. Most buffs don't last that long (take Bull's Strength, for example, at 1 min/level). It is unlikely that it will be useful through too many encounters... especially if the players take the time to search, heal up, etc., after an encounter. If the GM is allowing the players to fully buff up before entering an encounter, hopefully a good number of those encounters don't happen!

Example... the party approaches a door, during their "delve". The rogue listens, and hears something going on beyond the door. Paranoid and bloodthirsty as they are, the party's spellcasters start buffing up the group. As the rogue opens to the door prior to the fighter to bursting into the room, the wizard casts his last buff (Haste). The party is startled to see... nothing! In the middle of the room was tied a Contingent Major Image, which made the sounds of a group of monsters chatting.

Or, as they pass through the room's threshhold (which was trapped, but on the other side), each is hit with a targetted Dispel Magic.. stripping them of their buffs...

If, on the other hand, they sit back before entering combat and buff, the GM should be doing stuff to them while buffing... perhaps the enemies casters are buffing, summoning monsters, or even just blasting away with...

Surely you wouldn't want to do this EVERY time though right? I mean having the PC's carefully laid plans disrupted sometimes is fine, but screwing with them every time they try to prepare for an encounter would just be kinda jerky I'd think.


The game assumes no limit on number of buffs.


Cheapy wrote:
The game assumes no limit on number of buffs.

No limit. Same type bonuses do not stack.

Liberty's Edge

Silbeg wrote:
At that level, you should also be dealing with a good number of spellcasters in the opposition, so there should be a good number of Dispel Magic spells out there. One casting of Dispel Magic (in targeted mode) can strip away any number of buffs...

This is incorrect. Dispel Magic only gets rid of one buff now. Greater Dispel Magic is needed to remove more than one buff.

The rest of Silbeg's examples are golden. Also, do not allow a 15 minute work day, force them to have encounters even when they're unready for them. (Not as easy now that they can teleport, but do able.) This will encourage them not to over buff before going into most fights.


Silbeg wrote:
At that level, you should also be dealing with a good number of spellcasters in the opposition, so there should be a good number of Dispel Magic spells out there. One casting of Dispel Magic (in targeted mode) can strip away any number of buffs...

Dispel Magic can end one ongoing spell.

To strip more than one spell you need Greater Dispel Magic, which is a 6th-level spell. It can strip one spell per 4 caster levels.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rocky Williams 530 wrote:
Surely you wouldn't want to do this EVERY time though right? I mean having the PC's carefully laid plans disrupted sometimes is fine, but screwing with them every time they try to prepare for an encounter would just be kinda jerky I'd think.

It depends on the circumstance. On the other hand letting PC's overprepare for every encounter is also fine. If they wish to diminish the resources they have for the really climactic one, more power to them!


kid america wrote:

Is there a maximum number of spell buffs one player can have in effect on their character?

I'm thinking of creating a house rule that limits it to 4.

This applies to a 10th level campaign we are starting.

Let me know if there is a rule, article, or link to this topic.

There is no limit. Why is this an issue in game? If the players buff in combat it is actually bad for them since the bad guys should be laying the smack down. If they buff outside of combat the buffs will probably wear off in between combats.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

The reason I ask is because I've seen it abused on both sides of the GM screen.

There is the party of adventurers flush with magic items, buffed with spell effects, laying waste to demons while the GM looks on in disbelief at what he thought was a challenging encounter.

Then there is the evil NPCs buffed out with magic items and spell effects with spells bouncing off of them and nullifying or halving all the incoming damage. While the characters grumble how is that fair.

The other problem in both situations in keeping track of all the effects, bonuses, and durations.

I was looking to see if there is an agreeable middle ground.

I'm trying to avoid being that GM, or having grumbling players. Or being the grumbling GM.


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As a GM, I normally tell my players that what's good for them, is good for their enemies. How they play is going to dictate how their enemies play.

So if they choose to buff themselves to high heaven, or cheese out a particular tactic...well, word gets around. They ARE famous adventurers. Its obviously effective, why wouldn't everyone else do it too?

Fairs fair. No one has a right to grumble when you keep it even.


kid america wrote:

The reason I ask is because I've seen it abused on both sides of the GM screen.

There is the party of adventurers flush with magic items, buffed with spell effects, laying waste to demons while the GM looks on in disbelief at what he thought was a challenging encounter.

Then there is the evil NPCs buffed out with magic items and spell effects with spells bouncing off of them and nullifying or halving all the incoming damage. While the characters grumble how is that fair.

The other problem in both situations in keeping track of all the effects, bonuses, and durations.

I was looking to see if there is an agreeable middle ground.

I'm trying to avoid being that GM, or having grumbling players. Or being the grumbling GM.

Stopping buffs won't stop that. Sometimes you misjudge your players. You might have a super encounter, and they trounce it, or an easy encounter and they almost die.

Most of the time it has a lot to do with the what the party can handle.

As for as the NPC's being buffed I try to be realistic about it. If they know the players are coming he will take a guess at a good time to start buffing. If he does not expect them, and this rewards stealthy play, then he is not buffed.

The players also need to realize that what makes sense for them to do also makes sense for the bad guys to do.

As for tracking bonuses I have the buff written down seperately and what it adds or takes away. If the PC's use dispel magic then I go ahead and apply the results. I am also pretty good at math, but if a GM is not so quick to figure out the numbers then herolabs or a calculator may be in order.

As for durations if they last for minutes or hours I don't really bother with them since I have never seen a fight go past 20 rounds and any minute per level spell is lasing at least 100 rounds.

As for the round/level spells I tick them off at the beginning of that character's rounds before I ever do anything. If I don't do it right then I know I will forget.

I also try not to use single single boss bad guys anymore. It is more difficult to defeat a CR X encounter if it is composed of one tough baddie and helpers.

If the buffs are really an issue then do what you have to do, but I would try to avoid restrictions or ease back on the restrictions as you get better at tracking things.


kid america wrote:

Is there a maximum number of spell buffs one player can have in effect on their character?

I'm thinking of creating a house rule that limits it to 4.

This applies to a 10th level campaign we are starting.

Let me know if there is a rule, article, or link to this topic.

Yes there is a limit however I don't know it since i don't have time to count every buff spell in all the books.


It is an interesting option for a lower level magic campaign, I'd suggest to have a hard limit of 8 or 10 items/buffs. Not counting shield, weapon or other 'Use Activated' items like wands or staves.

This option will have players invest in powerful items rather than economically advantageous items, and you should probably create more powerful/combined items since there will be a bigger market for those items. An individual player might possess :

- cloak of resistance +4 and fire resistance 10

- a powerful weapon or maybe a staff and some wands

- a suit of mithral fullplate armor of speed +1

- a belt of strength +6

- a ring of forceshield +2 of lightning resistance that counts as a shield/use activated item

- headband of charisma +4/positive channeling

This paladin player will be more likely to count on a casting of shield of faith of his own, an allied cleric or his smite evil ability. Probably has a magical vestment cast on him to improve his armor and still have room for 4 to 6 buffs upon his person.

Liberty's Edge

kid america wrote:

The reason I ask is because I've seen it abused on both sides of the GM screen.

There is the party of adventurers flush with magic items, buffed with spell effects, laying waste to demons while the GM looks on in disbelief at what he thought was a challenging encounter.

Then there is the evil NPCs buffed out with magic items and spell effects with spells bouncing off of them and nullifying or halving all the incoming damage. While the characters grumble how is that fair.

The other problem in both situations in keeping track of all the effects, bonuses, and durations.

I was looking to see if there is an agreeable middle ground.

I'm trying to avoid being that GM, or having grumbling players. Or being the grumbling GM.

Out of curiosity, you intend to put a limit to the number of:

- feats you can pile up to help with the same action?

- Class/archetype special abilities?

- a mix of the above and spell buffs?

Weapon focus, greater weapon focus, weapon specialization, greater weapon specialization are already 4 feats increasing your combat prowess. You allow or not the use of power attack, vital strike or any of a number of feats together with them?

Paladin Smite evil and the above? Paladin Smite evil and 4 spell buffs?

The rules about stacking are reasonably clear it is assumed the player will use their capabilities to overcome the obstacles.
A same level encounter is meant to be easy for a prepared party.

As already suggested avoid the "play against a PC" situation where the players are allowed to burn all their spells and limited use powers in a few encounters and then rest to recover all of them, without any problem from the NPC.
The main beauty of playing with a human GM is that the world react to what the players are doing and is not static.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Weables wrote:

As a GM, I normally tell my players that what's good for them, is good for their enemies. How they play is going to dictate how their enemies play.

So if they choose to buff themselves to high heaven, or cheese out a particular tactic...well, word gets around. They ARE famous adventurers. Its obviously effective, why wouldn't everyone else do it too?

Fairs fair. No one has a right to grumble when you keep it even.

The only real issue is magic items. Because basically if it's buffs by spell slots only, there is a resource limit per day, and spell slots used for buffing are spell slots not available for anything else.

Magic items however, are the true slippery slope, if you let the party get too many, or if you let your item crafters go crazy with custom items whose power level can easily escalate beyond what it should be if you give the item crafters full leash on their desires.

Dark Archive

Grick wrote:
Silbeg wrote:
At that level, you should also be dealing with a good number of spellcasters in the opposition, so there should be a good number of Dispel Magic spells out there. One casting of Dispel Magic (in targeted mode) can strip away any number of buffs...

Dispel Magic can end one ongoing spell.

To strip more than one spell you need Greater Dispel Magic, which is a 6th-level spell. It can strip one spell per 4 caster levels.

Good catch, Grick.

I have to admit I haven't re-read all of the spells, etc., especially considering I am playing a Fighter in the one Pathfinder game I am in. This significantly reduces the power of Dispel Magic... however, the ability to choose tp dispel a specific spell is pretty good. I also note that the area dispel is for Greater, as well.

@Rocky... no, I wouldn't do this EVERY time... but once and a while keeps 'em on their toes.

Well, ok, I would always make buffing once combat has started have a cost... I wouldn't ever have the monsters, etc., just sit back while the party buffs... they would ALWAYS be moving in for the attack.


This game should never be like an MMO... limits to buffs just makes it feel so.

from a few posts are you also considering continous magic items as buffs? it almost appears that way in your comments.

Just keep track of the duration, your group may be abusing it too much.. alot of spells in PF are no longer minutes or hours/level they are now rounds/level... this is a huge impact.


One option I think might be nice... suppose that the number of buffs you can have, from magic items or from spells, would be limited. Furthermore, suppose that it is primarily limited for spellcasters. Say you can have something like 12 - N such effects at a time, where N is the highest spell level you can use. If you go beyond that, your higher-than-allowed spell levels either become unavailable, or you do not gain the buff effects. This could be explained by the buffs interfering, preventing you from shaping your aura enough to shape spells - like a chakra or something metaphysically occupied by each magical field.


Analysis wrote:
One option I think might be nice... suppose that the number of buffs you can have, from magic items or from spells, would be limited. Furthermore, suppose that it is primarily limited for spellcasters. Say you can have something like 12 - N such effects at a time, where N is the highest spell level you can use. If you go beyond that, your higher-than-allowed spell levels either become unavailable, or you do not gain the buff effects. This could be explained by the buffs interfering, preventing you from shaping your aura enough to shape spells - like a chakra or something metaphysically occupied by each magical field.

the only option I would ever agree too to limit the magic is if the GM removed all item creation feats and limited magic to be rare in the world.. to play a spellcaster would be harder because there is no magic. The issue most people have especially since crafting is so easy and now that in PF there is no exp cost its gotten worse.. I miss 2e's magic creation. You needed to cast permanacy on any magic item you wanted to create or it wouldnt work and the cost to cast was like 20000gp. so it made crafting extremly expensive and less of an issue in game. Magic meant something and was better controlled. 3e, 3.5 and PF should never have made crafting so easy.

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