Bladebound Magus question


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

17 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

I wasn’t able to find a definitive answer to this question with a search of the messageboards; can a Bladebound Magus’ black blade be enchanted additionally to the enhancements and abilities on the ‘Black Blade Progression’ table using the Craft Magic Arms and Armour feat?


Good question! I marked it for FAQ.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks.

I suppose the answer really lies in whether you treat it as a magical item or a class feature.

Dark Archive

I think this question was answered awhile ago in that you can enchant it and it will stack with the enhancement bonus


I think the difference is between receiving the Blackblade and the Blackblade being a magical item. You receive a sword (class feature), that happens to be magical (magic item). Using this logic, you could add further enchantments to the weapon without difficulty.

Liberty's Edge

Todd Morgan wrote:
I think this question was answered awhile ago in that you can enchant it and it will stack with the enhancement bonus

You wouldn't happen to know where this was answered, would you? Or where there might be another discussion on the topic? I'd be interested if seeing if anyone thinks there would be game balance issues in either allowing or not allowing this.

Dark Archive

the problem is the sword has an ego, but it doesn't follow normal ego progression. if you allow the sword to get further buffed we have no way of calculating its ego, but given the existing progression, it would be rather high, and then the sword dominates you


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Not really sure why you would need to enchant it if i'm honest, the black blade is capable of overcoming any dr and even capable of dealing extra damage vs creatures with elemental vulnerabilities, its always got a level apropriate enhancement bonus as you can add abilities to it as you please with your arcane pool.

Wouldn't you think you'd be better off investing in pearls of power as they save pool points which in turn enhance your blade? Or even just buying defensive items to keep yourself alive.

I know its not an answer to your question but i don't know what use you will get out of the answer.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The blade is subject to the normal +5/+5 limits of a non-epic weapon. The only purpose that enchantment serves would be to dininish the flexibility of your arcane bond. Essentially the major advantage of the bladebound magus is no real need to spend money on a magic weapon.

Liberty's Edge

Egoish wrote:

Not really sure why you would need to enchant it if i'm honest, the black blade is capable of overcoming any dr and even capable of dealing extra damage vs creatures with elemental vulnerabilities, its always got a level apropriate enhancement bonus as you can add abilities to it as you please with your arcane pool.

Wouldn't you think you'd be better off investing in pearls of power as they save pool points which in turn enhance your blade? Or even just buying defensive items to keep yourself alive.

I know its not an answer to your question but i don't know what use you will get out of the answer.

It’s more of an academic question, and/or relevant to NPCs rather than PCs. I tend to agree that as a PC it would probably not be worth further enchanting the black blade.

I missed that the black blade overcomes all DR, where does it say that? If that’s the case, it probably takes away the last reason I thought it might be worthwhile further enchanting the blade, to give it an alignment property (eg, Holy etc).


You can spend pool points to make the blade deal force damage insted of slashing, force negates everything.

Check out UC devoted blade arcana, like someone said if you enhance the sword itself you just nerf one of your other class abilities.

Liberty's Edge

Egoish wrote:
You can spend pool points to make the blade deal force damage insted of slashing, force negates everything.

True. Of course, you need to spend a point from the blade’s pool to achieve this, and it only lasts for one round per use. At 8th level you only have two such points to spend per day.

Egoish wrote:


Check out UC devoted blade arcana, like someone said if you enhance the sword itself you just nerf one of your other class abilities.

I wasn’t aware of that particular arcana, thanks for pointing it out. Still, you need to be 12th level to take that one. Enchanting your blade to be Holy (for example) might be well worthwhile in a campaign that you know is going to be fiend-heavy, especially given that the bladebound magus has a smaller arcane pool and less (admittedly only by one) magus arcana than the standard magus. I’m not sure that I would call it nerfing a class ability when we are talking about one of many optional arcana (if anything it frees you up to choose something else).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mothman wrote:


I missed that the black blade overcomes all DR, where does it say that? If that’s the case, it probably takes away the last reason I thought it might be worthwhile further enchanting the blade, to give it an alignment property (eg, Holy etc).

Remember that ultimately, the blade becomes a +5 weapon before you spend any pool ponts to enhance it.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

The Black Blade’s progression is fully charted in the Archetype. No where in the description do they detail rules for changing any of the listed stats. This includes the weapons ego score. The weapon’s ego score would change any time you added any powers to the weapon. Since the item’s ego score has a static progression based solely on the owner’s level, it would be safe to assume the Black Blade can’t be modified.

Also consider the fact that weapons in general can only be made +5/+5. Eventually the weapon will be +5 and the Magus will be able to add +5 worth of abilities from their Arcane Pool. Since the class/item combo caps the maximum progression, then allowing additional modifications would be pointless.

There are a few Arcana to expand the range of options for Arcane Pool abilities. Such as the one that allows you to add Holy, Ghost Touch or Brilliant Energy. If a player wanted something not currently allowed they could always ask the GM to houserule a new Arcana for that power.

In a home game a GM can be free to adjust the rules as they see fit.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, I think the non-standard ego score might be key to this issue, and quite possibly means (or implies) that no additional enchantments can be added by RAI.

Thanks for the input everyone.


Mothman wrote:

Yeah, I think the non-standard ego score might be key to this issue, and quite possibly means (or implies) that no additional enchantments can be added by RAI.

Thanks for the input everyone.

Has anyone actually factored what it's ego should be at each point?

I mean everyone says, "Non-standard" but how far off are we really? It's not like we can't breakdown what a similar weapon would have as an ego score.

Paizo Employee Official Rules Response

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FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9qux

Magus, Black Blade: Can I use Craft Magic Arms and Armor to increase my blade's enhancement bonus?

No, nor can you use that feat to add other properties (such as flaming) to the black blade. You can use your arcane pool to temporarily add abilities to your black blade.


Just to clarify,
Does that cover non +X equivalent enchantments, e.g. normal flat cost enchantments? (not intelligent item abilities/features)
Because that isn't "increasing" the enhancement bonus.
Likewise for enchanting it separately with +X bonuses (non-stacking).
As long as they don't stack, they aren't increasing it's bonus.

Besides flat-cost enchantments, adding non-stacking +X enchantments on it isn't that usefull for full-class maguses, although characters who have only a few levels of magus and the rest fighter (etc) would get use out of being able to normally enchant their weapon to be on par for their level. Likewise, the blackblade specifically mentions how it works when other people use it, namely it "acts like a MW weapon". Considering characters sometimes need to use whatever weapon is at hand, that sort of thing happens sometimes, and I'm not sure why they couldn't enchant it in that situation (e.g. stuck in castle, only have blackblade of dead PC ally, but enough time to craft an enchantment on it).

It seems weird if it "works like a MW" weapon for everybody else... except for not being able to accept ANY enchantment like other MW weapons. So even though to everybody else it seems like a MW weapon with no magical qualities, the total inability to enchant it would effectively serve as incontrovertible proof of the owner being a magus...???

It makes sense that you can't add an additional intelligent item ego to it (or modify the black blade ego using the standard rules) since the item already has an intelligent ego even if it's incompatable with the standard rules for modifying them, but I don't see what's the problem with normal flat-cost weapon enchantments and non-stacking enhancement bonus?

The wording of the question and response leave some grey area around there.
Literally, you could have non-stacking vanilla enhancement bonus (useful for allies who pick it up, multiclass builds), but even flat-cost not to mention +X /equivalent/ enhancements are barred by the responces' "other properties" wording even though that doesn't directly relate to the question of 'increasing' the black blade's enhancement bonus (or increasing any of it's qualities, or treating the blade as anything but the MW weapon the rules say it can be treated as).


In all my dealings with magical enhancements to weapons, I went for the explanation that yes, you can add enhancements to the blade but once the blade becomes sentient, the enhancements are dormant as the sentient ego takes precedent. If I drop the blade and anyone picks it up, then it would revert to any prior enhancements with the sentient being dormant. Secondly, it specifically states that a Magus's arcane ability adds to enhancements already present up to +5. But the black blades enhancements do NOT stack with existing enhancements.

I noticed the dev team made a response but I would ask them to reconsider their position on not allowing enhancements on black blades.

Thanks,

Shoga


Next question, can you use your intelligent, powerful, strong-ego'd and consummate-at-spying for you Black Blade to control a Monkey, which drags the sword around to scout for you until you teleport it back to your hand?

I'm thinking no but the rules on intelligent items and how they interact with low-intelligence/low-will creatures has some vagueness to it.


Nice two year necro, geniuses.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shoga wrote:

In all my dealings with magical enhancements to weapons, I went for the explanation that yes, you can add enhancements to the blade but once the blade becomes sentient, the enhancements are dormant as the sentient ego takes precedent. If I drop the blade and anyone picks it up, then it would revert to any prior enhancements with the sentient being dormant. Secondly, it specifically states that a Magus's arcane ability adds to enhancements already present up to +5. But the black blades enhancements do NOT stack with existing enhancements.

I noticed the dev team made a response but I would ask them to reconsider their position on not allowing enhancements on black blades.

Thanks,

Shoga

It's been considered, and the answer is no. The dev ruling on the blackblade is consistent with the fact that the blade isn't really a weapon, but more like a Baby Stormbringer bound into weapon form.

Archetypes are taken at first level for this reason, even if the effects don't kick in til later.

Grand Lodge

boring7 wrote:

Next question, can you use your intelligent, powerful, strong-ego'd and consummate-at-spying for you Black Blade to control a Monkey, which drags the sword around to scout for you until you teleport it back to your hand?

I'm thinking no but the rules on intelligent items and how they interact with low-intelligence/low-will creatures has some vagueness to it.

It depends on the sword. Normally it refuses to do anything when you're not wielding it. Either way, it can't control the monkey. But if the sword is willing to scout, and you can convince <something> to carry it around, then yeah.

Ashram wrote:
Nice two year necro, geniuses.

Yeah, that dude commented on like 5 super old magus threads, and most while posting misinformation..

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