Conversion of Green Ronin's Testament to PF


Conversions


There were several things in Testament that I really liked, things that fit well into my own campaign world. One of the things that I have had a bit of a time converting was the Qedeshot class. It is a near perfect fit for the clergy of several of the Goddesses in my homebrew pantheon. I just can't seem to make the transition in a way that makes me happy. Especially with the addition of acrobatics, to make for a Minoan bull dancer type character.

Has anyone else converted this class? Has anyone else converted any of the other stuff from this book?


I've not tried converting anything from it, but it is one of my favorite 3.5 supplemental books. My current homebrew uses a lot of what is found in the Hamunaptra set, and some of Testament is going to be leaking into that very soon.


Pagan priest wrote:

There were several things in Testament that I really liked, things that fit well into my own campaign world. One of the things that I have had a bit of a time converting was the Qedeshot class. It is a near perfect fit for the clergy of several of the Goddesses in my homebrew pantheon. I just can't seem to make the transition in a way that makes me happy. Especially with the addition of acrobatics, to make for a Minoan bull dancer type character.

Has anyone else converted this class? Has anyone else converted any of the other stuff from this book?

I'm still not happy with my own efforts in this conversion. I think that the Qedeshot can mostly work as a bard archetype - sort of. I still can't manage to get the Fertility domain to feel right.

Any suggestions?


I treated the sacred dancer concept as a monk for my India campaign.

If you do use a bard, I'd change the spell list to a divine one.

What's the matter with your Fertility domain? Can you post it? I'd think a mixture of Charm, Plant, and emotion based spells, myself.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You may want to check out the official 3.0 to 3.5 conversion (part one) for Testament over in Targum Magazine #4.


I just remembered that back when the APG came out someone homebrewed an Oracle of Passion. The flavor is about perfect for a Qedeshot (or Devadasi).

here's the link


Alzrius wrote:
You may want to check out the official 3.0 to 3.5 conversion (part one) for Testament over in Targum Magazine #4.

I got the revised spell list when the author posted it on his blog, but I have not seen any issues of Targum. Did it change anything other than the spell list?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Pagan priest wrote:
Alzrius wrote:
You may want to check out the official 3.0 to 3.5 conversion (part one) for Testament over in Targum Magazine #4.
I got the revised spell list when the author posted it on his blog, but I have not seen any issues of Targum. Did it change anything other than the spell list?

Yes, though I haven't looked at it in a while (my copy is at home), so please forgive my lack of specifics.

Since it's part one of a two-part series (the second of which, unfortunately, never came out), it's not a complete conversion...as I recall, it stops after converting the first six or seven chapters of Testament, so it doesn't cover monster conversions.


Jeff de luna wrote:

I just remembered that back when the APG came out someone homebrewed an Oracle of Passion. The flavor is about perfect for a Qedeshot (or Devadasi).

here's the link

I read that. I liked it, but I'm still not positive that oracles fit in my world, at least not as written. Very close, but not quite.

That said, I did like what was written there.


Here is the Fertility domain as written in Testament:

This domain covers personal and animal fertility and the characteristics of ones offspring, as opposed to the fertility of the fields, which is covered by the Plant domain.

Granted Power: You receive +2 to all Fortitude saves involving Endurance, and +1 to all Charisma skill checks made for the purpose of seduction.

Spells:
1) Endurance. as Bull's Endurance.
2) Increase Fertility. Improves chances of a pregnancy.
3) Remove Affliction. Cures conditions such as paranoia, lameness, and impotence.
4) Greatness of Tribe. Shares the ability bonuses of members of the immediate family.
5) Fertile Womb. Eliminates barren condition.
6) Touch of the Goddess Subject receives many healing benefits, including immunity to natural and magical disease.
7) Hasten Birth. Brings any pregnancy to term.
8) God Form. Channel a God's power through caster's body.
9) Rejuvenation. Restores subject to his prime.

I have been looking at this for a couple of months now, and I still can't come up with anything that I think works as a good granted power for 8th level...


Pagan priest wrote:

Here is the Fertility domain as written in Testament:

This domain covers personal and animal fertility and the characteristics of ones offspring, as opposed to the fertility of the fields, which is covered by the Plant domain.

Granted Power: You receive +2 to all Fortitude saves involving Endurance, and +1 to all Charisma skill checks made for the purpose of seduction.

Spells:
1) Endurance. as Bull's Endurance.
2) Increase Fertility. Improves chances of a pregnancy.
3) Remove Affliction. Cures conditions such as paranoia, lameness, and impotence.
4) Greatness of Tribe. Shares the ability bonuses of members of the immediate family.
5) Fertile Womb. Eliminates barren condition.
6) Touch of the Goddess Subject receives many healing benefits, including immunity to natural and magical disease.
7) Hasten Birth. Brings any pregnancy to term.
8) God Form. Channel a God's power through caster's body.
9) Rejuvenation. Restores subject to his prime.

I have been looking at this for a couple of months now, and I still can't come up with anything that I think works as a good granted power for 8th level...

Well, the ultimate fertility power that follows along these lines is resurrection (a la Adonis, and some other mythic figures: the cycle of crops and life). Simply being able to resurrect or possibly reincarnate sans a material cost maybe?


Jeff de luna wrote:
Pagan priest wrote:

Here is the Fertility domain as written in Testament:

...

Granted Power: You receive +2 to all Fortitude saves involving Endurance, and +1 to all Charisma skill checks made for the purpose of seduction.

...

I have been looking at this for a couple of months now, and I still can't come up with anything that I think works as a good granted power for 8th level...

Well, the ultimate fertility power that follows along these lines is resurrection (a la Adonis, and some other mythic figures: the cycle of crops and life). Simply being able to resurrect or possibly reincarnate sans a material cost maybe?

In all this time, I never once thought of that. And that is exactly why I started this discussion.


I feel that the +2 bonus should be an add-on, just like the +2 bonus on channeling resistance CD of the Glory domain. As for the "real" granted powers, maybe making animals and vegetables grow, or create food? I'd also replace some of the granted spells with something more "combat-useful".


Pagan priest wrote:
Jeff de luna wrote:
Pagan priest wrote:

Here is the Fertility domain as written in Testament:

...

Granted Power: You receive +2 to all Fortitude saves involving Endurance, and +1 to all Charisma skill checks made for the purpose of seduction.

...

I have been looking at this for a couple of months now, and I still can't come up with anything that I think works as a good granted power for 8th level...

Well, the ultimate fertility power that follows along these lines is resurrection (a la Adonis, and some other mythic figures: the cycle of crops and life). Simply being able to resurrect or possibly reincarnate sans a material cost maybe?
In all this time, I never once thought of that. And that is exactly why I started this discussion.

Thanks :)


Bardess wrote:
I feel that the +2 bonus should be an add-on, just like the +2 bonus on channeling resistance CD of the Glory domain. As for the "real" granted powers, maybe making animals and vegetables grow, or create food? I'd also replace some of the granted spells with something more "combat-useful".

Hmm, a few years ago, I ran a campaign where one piece of advice that I gave the players at the start was that there would be scenarios that if they even drew their swords at all, they had lost the encounter. That campaign was all about nobles houses and their intrigues.

It is really for something like that that I want to bring in the qedeshot. The class is not really meant to be a "combat" oriented class. rather, they are there to aid and boost the community where they live.

Heck, back for 3.0, I once created a prestige class for the expert NPC class - Doctor of Physic, a skilled healer, able to make a few potions at higher levels but moistly depending on skill in heal.


Jeff de luna wrote:
Pagan priest wrote:
Jeff de luna wrote:
Pagan priest wrote:

Here is the Fertility domain as written in Testament:

...

Granted Power: You receive +2 to all Fortitude saves involving Endurance, and +1 to all Charisma skill checks made for the purpose of seduction.

...

I have been looking at this for a couple of months now, and I still can't come up with anything that I think works as a good granted power for 8th level...

Well, the ultimate fertility power that follows along these lines is resurrection (a la Adonis, and some other mythic figures: the cycle of crops and life). Simply being able to resurrect or possibly reincarnate sans a material cost maybe?
In all this time, I never once thought of that. And that is exactly why I started this discussion.
Thanks :)

Oh, yeah, there was one other thing...

The class as originally written had a dance of death ability. When I tried to make it a specialized bard, I looked at the deadly performance ability at 20th level, and changed the whole thing to a Dance of Life or Death at 20th level, where they get to make a deadly performance or a resurrection.


So, after all this time, has anyone come up with any new ideas?


My brainstorming had lead to both bard and oracle versions, but I don't have the files with me at work.

The oracle curse had been something to the effect of being unable to reject a sincere supplicant, with the tradeoffs being disease resistance, then immunity, and then a bonus for the day up to half of level based on supplicants serviced...which does not mean 'full service' necessarily, but generally serving the faith freely or only accepting proffered payment, not making demands of same.

Granted, this was in an urban campaign, and in a setting where such individuals were easily and readily recognized, if in the trappings of their faith. Also, a recent re-examination was prompting me to change the pole into a quarterstaff, and allowing the enchant effect to work not entirely unlike a magus' cast-through-weapon, with the main distinction being that the weapon has to be planted in the ground to function, rather 'World of Warcraft Totem'-style. Basically, weapon/symbol of faith becomes enhanced, instead of having to keep a temple pole.


TheAntiElite wrote:

My brainstorming had lead to both bard and oracle versions, but I don't have the files with me at work.

The oracle curse had been something to the effect of being unable to reject a sincere supplicant, with the tradeoffs being disease resistance, then immunity, and then a bonus for the day up to half of level based on supplicants serviced...which does not mean 'full service' necessarily, but generally serving the faith freely or only accepting proffered payment, not making demands of same.

Granted, this was in an urban campaign, and in a setting where such individuals were easily and readily recognized, if in the trappings of their faith. Also, a recent re-examination was prompting me to change the pole into a quarterstaff, and allowing the enchant effect to work not entirely unlike a magus' cast-through-weapon, with the main distinction being that the weapon has to be planted in the ground to function, rather 'World of Warcraft Totem'-style. Basically, weapon/symbol of faith becomes enhanced, instead of having to keep a temple pole.

Hmm, from a religious point of view, I can see reasons that allowing it to be a quarterstaff would not work. The pole is supposed to represent the area that is to be blessed by the fertility workings of the qedeshah.

On the other hand, from a gaming point of view, it makes a lot more sense to allow the character to be able to wander around as part of an adventuring group.


Pagan priest wrote:

Hmm, from a religious point of view, I can see reasons that allowing it to be a quarterstaff would not work. The pole is supposed to represent the area that is to be blessed by the fertility workings of the qedeshah.

On the other hand, from a gaming point of view, it makes a lot more sense to allow the character to be able to wander around as part of an adventuring group.

Perfectly understood on the theological front, though for purposes of class utilization I erred on the side of interactivity and viable function, as most groups don't have the luxury of staying in one area for protracted periods of time. It might make sense as a a sort of 'choice at X level' boon a la Paladins and their weapon-or-mount decision. Keeping the traditional poles would be great for a more sedentary, non-meandering campaign - for the more migrant adventurers, the staff option might be more appealing, even if the extent of the powers were reduced.

Actually, this makes me want a quasi-Biblical Kingmaker campaign, just so that there could be a nation with a Qedesha/im High Priest, and allowing the flavor of the faith to reflect in the behavior of the people.


Revised Fertility domain:

This domain covers personal and animal fertility and the characteristics of ones offspring, as opposed to the fertility of the fields, which is covered by the Plant domain.

Granted Power: You receive +2 to all Fortitude saves involving Endurance, and +1 to all Charisma skill checks made for the purpose of seduction.

Intimate Connection (Sp): You can cast spells that normally have a range of touch out to short range, provided the recipient is a person with whom you have shared a fertility ritual within the past 24 hours. You can do this a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Kiss of Life (Sp): At 8th level, you can attempt to prevent the death of a companion by use of the Breath of Life spell. You can use this ability once per day at 8th level, and one additional time per day for every four cleric levels beyond 8th.

Spells:
1) Endurance. as Bull's Endurance.
2) Increase Fertility. Improves chances of a pregnancy.
3) Remove Affliction. Cures conditions such as paranoia, lameness, and impotence.
4) Greatness of Tribe. Shares the ability bonuses of members of the immediate family.
5) Fertile Womb. Eliminates barren condition.
6) Touch of the Goddess Subject receives many healing benefits, including immunity to natural and magical disease.
7) Hasten Birth. Brings any pregnancy to term.
8) God Form. Channel a God's power through caster's body.
9) Rejuvenation. Restores subject to his prime.


Pagan priest wrote:
The pole is supposed to represent the area that is to be blessed by the fertility workings of the qedeshah.

Dude, if we're talking fertility, it's pretty clear what a pole represents.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Sovereign Court Contributor

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Pagan priest wrote:
The pole is supposed to represent the area that is to be blessed by the fertility workings of the qedeshah.

Dude, if we're talking fertility, it's pretty clear what a pole represents.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Actually, Kirth, it's an Asherah pole. Asherah is a goddess, the consort of Yahweh, and hence the pole is perhaps not what you think; otherwise, why would it be personified as Asherah herself? It seems to symbolise a tree.


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Jeff Erwin wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Pagan priest wrote:
The pole is supposed to represent the area that is to be blessed by the fertility workings of the qedeshah.

Dude, if we're talking fertility, it's pretty clear what a pole represents.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
Actually, Kirth, it's an Asherah pole. Asherah is a goddess, the consort of Yahweh, and hence the pole is perhaps not what you think; otherwise, why would it be personified as Asherah herself? It seems to symbolise a tree.

Well... I am not quite sure that a "tree" is what gets erected on the site of the Asherah pole...

And as an aside, I would like to point out that there are some people that would get offended by claiming that the God of the Bible had a consort or wife. (Even if the Bible is full of references to Asherah poles going up all over the place on a fairly regular basis.)


Pagan priest wrote:
And as an aside, I would like to point out that there are some people that would get offended by claiming that the God of the Bible had a consort or wife. (Even if the Bible is full of references to Asherah poles going up all over the place on a fairly regular basis.)

That's when the redactors come in ...

But there is plenty of archaeological evidence that within Semitic mythology, Asherah was (at one time) the consort of Yahweh. But I'll refrain from the discussion of when the actual shift from a polytheistic to a monotheistic religion occurred.

Sovereign Court Contributor

It's interesting to see the tree symbolism in Kabbalah and wonder if that is the Asherah in modern terms...

The Shekinah is the feminine aspect of G*d in that discipline. Who knows how much the Asherah might have influenced later mysticism.

But, yes, I was talking about how G*d was worshipped - as having a consort - throughout much of Testament's eras - the truth or falsehood of that belief is not what I meant.


Urizen wrote:
Pagan priest wrote:
And as an aside, I would like to point out that there are some people that would get offended by claiming that the God of the Bible had a consort or wife. (Even if the Bible is full of references to Asherah poles going up all over the place on a fairly regular basis.)

That's when the redactors come in ...

But there is plenty of archaeological evidence that within Semitic mythology, Asherah was (at one time) the consort of Yahweh. But I'll refrain from the discussion of when the actual shift from a polytheistic to a monotheistic religion occurred.

Oh, don't get my wrong, I love discussions of that nature. I'm just not sure how some of the other folks on this particular board might feel about it...


Pagan priest wrote:
Urizen wrote:

That's when the redactors come in ...

But there is plenty of archaeological evidence that within Semitic mythology, Asherah was (at one time) the consort of Yahweh. But I'll refrain from the discussion of when the actual shift from a polytheistic to a monotheistic religion occurred.

Oh, don't get my wrong, I love discussions of that nature. I'm just not sure how some of the other folks on this particular board might feel about it...

Topics prefaced with the word civil tends to be anything but. :)

But yes, it's a fascinating topic nonetheless.

Scarab Sages

I think it's time people like that learned to deal with it - we've managed to establish that active religious oppression is no longer cool, so they've mastered the technique of passive-aggressive oppression.

If your religion is centered around telling everyone else that their religion is wrong and yours is the only correct one, what right have you to complain when people start questioning you - or even flippantly reciprocating?

If you can't compete in a pluralistic society, Hosea 8:7 comes to mind.

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