|
"Pauline ? Where is the slug that was in my bocal ? Pauline ?..."
Lots of people like the Synthesist.
Few people would want to play one or see one in their game... especially within hands of an optimizer.
Here is a creepy alchemist sharing a body with a parasite aberration, because you know sharing your body with an aberration and gaining weird evolutions from a talking mouth on your stomach is what you have always wished for !
Any comments welcomed, as allways. Hope you will like it. ;)
Host
Sometimes, because of a failed spell, a rift through planes, or through horrible manipulations, are born strange creatures defying classification. Such alien beings are most commonly known by scholars as aberrations. While most aberrations end up scattering madness on their path, at best claiming the depths of the darkest dungeons to fest on adventurers, others are parasites. These parasites quickly sneak on the first creature under their reach, invading it's brain to assume control, and become distorded, shape-changing monsters. But some parasites fail to take over the creature. Because the parasite's survival now depends on it's victim's, this creature becomes a Host, blessed – or cursed – with twisted body features, and an uncanny knowledge of the substances needed to survive and become stronger. While few hosts enjoy sharing their body with this strange ally, all acknowledge it's boundless loyalty.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
Hosts are proficient with simple weapons. Hosts gain no proficiency in armors and shields.
Symbiont
At 1st level, by a combination of circumstances, a host is invaded by a parasitic aberration. Such entity is usually stuck in the body part the host was able to apply a tourniquet to when it attempted to reach his brain, thus forcing the creature to merge with the body part as a survival reflex ; but other circumstances influence the position of the symbiont, and parasites merging in the wrong way while trying to save the life of a dying host, for example, aren't unheard of.
A symbiont is a creature with it's own mind and Intelligence, though it's way of apprehending life is usually cold and mechanical, thinking only about it's own survival. A symbiont is incorruptibly loyal to it's host, since the host's death pretty much signifies theirs : a symbiont may attempt to merge with another host, but such operation is so dangerous that few to none would attempt it. As such, all symbionts are strictly Neutral, often suggesting to their host the course to follow, keeping it's morale high, checking his blood pressure or nutritious apports, and complying to his desires, including those that could put it in danger. But the symbiont isn't a slave, and may not hesitate to deprive it's host of any « un-needed » feature (a judgement the host wouldn't probably agree with), should he prove overly agressive and determined enough to get rid of it. As such, a symbiont and a host usually have a close, weird relation and tend to work in concert.
Despite not controlling the brain, a symbiont controls the body part it is stuck in when it desires so, and can speak all of it's host languages. A symbiont may assume the normal apparence of the body part it is stuck in, or distort, extend, and bend in twisted ways up to several feet of distance to act and move light items on it's own. It can freely create eyes or mouths of diverse sizes and on diverses places of the body part, which are required to speak or see it's surroundings. When a host sleeps, a symbiont enters into hibernation and becomes unconscious. A symbiont may enter into hibernation at any time while the host is awake to give him back the control of the body part, and immediately exit hibernation when the host is endangered or calling for it's assistance.
But the most benefical way a symbiont interacts with it's host is by it's offensive and defensive enhancements to the host's body. On these aspects, a symbiont is similar to a synthesist summoner's eidolon, with the exception that a symbiont doesn't have it's own physical scores or statistics, and totally depends on the « quality » of it's host body, which it enhances by the ability to shape blade-like weapons from the body part, assume a hardened coating around the body, create membranous wings, etc.
Such abilities are only usable when the host wears no armor, as it disrupts the symbiont's shape-changing powers.
A symbiont emits constantly a magical aura of Transmutation whose power depends on the host's level. It has no hit points of it's own, shares the host's physical stats and has a score in each mental stat equal to the Intelligence of a familiar of appropriate level for the host.
The symbiont and the host cannot take separate actions – even though they sometimes seem to attack on their own, this is merely for a common goal, and attacks made from the symbiont aren't different from an attack made by the host. The host uses his own BAB and feats to attack. If the host is put inconscious by an attack, the symbiont stabilizes the host and hibernates immediately until the host is slain or possesses again half his hit points, whichever comes first. The link between the host and his symbiont is odd and powerful : if the host dies, the symbiont dies ; and if the host is bring back to life, the symbiont is too.
Because of it's nature, a symbiont reacts badly to mutagens, and as such, ingesting one is treated as a poison dealing instantly the ability damage it is intended to improve, once per round during 6 rounds, requiring one save with a DC equal to 10 + ½ the alchemist's level + the Intelligence modifier of the alchemist who brew it.
The symbiont must hibernate 8 hours before providing any benefit. Once fully reposed, by sharing a nerve connection during 1 minute, the symbiont provides the following benefits to a host as long as he is conscious :
At 1st level, the symbiont provides a +2 natural armor bonus to the host, and a +1 bonus to it's host's Strength and Dexterity. These bonuses increase respectively by +2 and +1 at level 2, then each three levels later (5, 8, 11...) up to +16 and +8 at level 20.
The symbiont also gains an Evolution pool as an eidolon of his host's level, the limbs (arms) and the claw evolution for free. The symbiont must still meet the prerequisites of the evolutions it chooses. The host gains access to these evolutions, and is considered as having the Eidolon class feature for the purposes of feats. At the difference of an eidolon, any visible evolutions may be hidden, or shaped as a move action.
Finally, the symbiont is considered as an eidolon for the purposes of the special abilities it possesses by gaining levels. As such, it gains Darkvision, Link and Share Spells at first level, and others in later levels. The host gains these abilities.
At 2nd level, the host gains the Tumor Familiar discovery, using his symbiont as a familiar. This also allows the symbiont to detach a part of itself from the host ; doing so doesn't affect the benefits provided to the host, including if the familiar is killed (though it must still be replaced as normal).
At 4th level, thanks to it's symbiont's parrying and dragging moves, the host gains a +2 shield bonus to his Armor Class and a +2 circumstance bonus on it's saving throws.
At 6th level, the host can cast dimension door as a spell-like ability using his caster level. This ability only affects the host and it's symbiont. The host can use this ability once per day at 6th level, plus one additional time per day for every six levels beyond 6th.
At 12th level, the symbiont improves it's ability to absorb hits and put it's host out of danger. The host gains a +4 shield bonus to his Armor Class and a +4 circumstance bonus on his saving throws.
At 16th level, the symbiont is able to protect the body of it's host even when it is put unconscious. Once per day, when the host's hit points reach -1, he is stabilized, and gains a number of temporary hit points equal to his level during one hour. The symbiont may keep moving as if it was the host as long as the body has at least 1 temporary hit point.
At 20th level, a host and his symbiont fully merge, in body and soul. Their personalities, if it wasn't already the case, converge into one. The host does not need to sleep, and the symbiont does not need to hibernate anymore, including when the host is put unconscious ; allowing them to keep living and fighting as long as they are able to regenerate their wounds.
This ability replaces mutagen, throw Anything, brew potion, discovery and the grand discovery class feature.
If this is an alchemist archtype, how does it have a twin eidalon feature to lose?
@Darkwing Duck: That thought came up a while back, before the synthesist was introduced. I Don't know if there was ever a full write up of it though.
|
|
If this is an alchemist archtype, how does it have a twin eidalon feature to lose?
@Darkwing Duck: That thought came up a while back, before the synthesist was introduced. I Don't know if there was ever a full write up of it though.
Corrected. :)
It's what I get for writting under medication at an hour where people are soon waking up...@Darkwing Duck: I'm not really familiar with 3.0/3.5 prestige classes (that I think the Binder is one of ?).
EDIT : I'm thinking about removing the Dimension Door ability for something representing the host's ability to attack in concert with his symbiont. Like fighting as if the creature was flanked, with a limited duration...
If this is an alchemist archtype, how does it have a twin eidalon feature to lose?
@Darkwing Duck: That thought came up a while back, before the synthesist was introduced. I Don't know if there was ever a full write up of it though.
Corrected. :)
It's what I get for writting under medication at an hour where people are soon waking up...@Darkwing Duck: I'm not really familiar with 3.0/3.5 prestige classes (that I think the Binder is one of ?).
The binder was a really cool base class from Tome of Magic. It let you create pacts with otherworldly entities and change the role you filled on a day to day basis. It was my favorite 3.5 class.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
You might want to give credit to the manga you're obviously borrowing wholesale from, Kiseiju (Parasyte).
|
|
You might want to give credit to the manga you're obviously borrowing wholesale from, Kiseiju (Parasyte).
Like, +100 to this !
I was waiting for someone to see the reference, as describing an archetype as "inspired from a manga", either in some aspects or entirely, tends to repel people not wanting weeaboo content in their fantasy - myself included. :)While the credit for the fluff and concept are to be given entirely to Hitoshi Iwaaki, it seems that at first glance, I was at least able to make it seem like something that could actually be used in Pathfinder, and in line with the alchemist class. The parasite looked to me like a perfect opportunity to make the Synthesist more than a guilty optimizer pleasure, and to open the whole "mutation/creepiness" baseline and gameplay to the class for which it would be the most interesting.
|
|
Also, some errata.
Change the following sentence :
"At 6th level, the host can cast dimension door as a spell-like ability using his caster level. This ability only affects the host and it's symbiont. The host can use this ability once per day at 6th level, plus one additional time per day for every six levels beyond 6th."
With this one :
"At 6th level, the host and the symbiont learn to act in concert on their own to distract enemies and become more of a threat. A number of rounds per day equal to he host's plus the symbiont's Intelligence modifier, the host may attack a creature as if he was flanking it."
(I believe it is useless to indicate how the Host blends well with the Vivisectionist fluff and mechanics...)
|
|
Providing some armchair feedback on the archetype development, including an example of level 8 build.
Archetype development :
At first I was seeing the 1982 The Thing movie, and with the monster showing on the screen, I thought about a good friend of mine who is also my DM : this friend DMPC'd a LE/LG alchemist/master chymist with a tumor familiar and a parasitic twin ; and I was sure even if he had a blast playing it, he would have loved even more to further improve this parasitic/host flesh warping, biological aberration concept.
While The Thing shows a solitary creature, Parasyte, the manga that Evil Midnight Lurker successfully recognized, puts in scene a hero which suffers from the presence of a parasitic, merged creature which tries to protect him, quite similar but more "adequate" to an adventurer hero than the Slither movie's monster, while keeping the creepiness value and overall sick taste from The Thing.
Said friend has already expressed a real interest on how the archetype turns out. So, I believe the overall design is right, and the concept appealing enough to be worth completion.
When writting the following build, It also made me see some potential questions inherent to such a concept, like "does a symbiont have it's own magic slots ? it says it shares the host physical stats, but then what about items increasing mental stats ?". I would be inclined to say "yes", as the symbiont's mental abilities are only helpful when trying to intimidate (something that doesn't currently shows on the archetype's crunch), get skill points, or for some saves.
At the same time, I don't know if a symbiont should be immune to any enchantment obviously putting it's host under danger, or if the actual class features and enchantment rules about doing things "against your nature" are good enough to reflect this.
I also believe the archetype still lacks something more, like being able to absorb an ailment from the host (like a second save, similar to the Parasitic Twin ability), or use the Aid Another as a quicker action.
Finally, the Natural attacks problem : how much maximum natural attacks should the Host have ?
Same as an eidolon ? After all, the major problem of the synthesist is his ability to wear a monster with lots of attacks when in hands of a good optimizer.
No limit ? After all, you begin with less evolutions, and you use your own BAB and feats, so you must spend a lot more limited ressources to be efficient.
What do you think about the previous questions ?
Here is the level 8 build. 20-point buy, human, normal wealth for level.
I'll go for the "maximum number of attacks : same as an eidolon" answer for the time.
(and his female persona symbiont, "Lutux".)
Host, Level 8
24 (Base 16 + 6 Symbiont + 2 Belt)
20 (Base 14 + 4 Symbiont + 2 Belt)
19 (Base 14 + 2 from Ioun Stone + 2 from leveling + 1 from Symbiont's ability score increase)
14
12
7
HPs : 7d8 + 8(DV) + 32(Con) + 8(Tough) + 8(Pred)
= 7d8+56 (83 PVs)
AC : 10 + 10(Natural) + 5(Dex) + 1(Defl.) + 2(Armor) + 2(Shield)
= 28/16/23
(Base 16/14/14)
Saves :
Fort : 6+5(Con)+2(Circ)+1(Res) = +14 (+20 poison)
Ref : 6+5(Dex)+2(Circ)+1(Res) = +14
Will : 2+1(Wis)+2(Circ)+1(Res)+2(IW)+4(Morale) = +12
(Base +12(+18 poison)/+10/+10)
Feats :
H. Toughness
1. Extra Evolution
3. Power Attack
5. Extra Evolution
7. Iron Will
Evolution pool :
11+2=13
Evolutions :
Free :
- Limbs (Arms)
- Claws (1d6)
- Unnatural Aura
1-point :
- Bite (1d6)
- Improved Natural Armor (x1)
- Reach (Bite)
- Scent
- Tentacle (secondary, 1d4)
2-point :
- Grab (Bite)
- Ability Score Increase (x1, Str.)
- Poison (Bite) (Improved = Symbiont poison—type poison (injury); DC 18 save Fort negates; frequency 1/round for 4 rounds; effect 1d4 Con damage; cure 1 save.)
- Trip (Bite)
BAB : +6/+1
Melee : +13/+8
CMB : +13 (+17 Grapple)
(Power Attack : -2/+4)
Full-attack with symbiont :
+14 Bite (1d6+8+reach+poison+grab+trip)/
+14 Claw (1d6+8)/
+14 Claw (1d6+8)/
+9 Tentacle (1d4+3)
Special :
- Alchemy
- Bombs (4d6+2)
- Poison Use
- Swift Alchemy
- Poison Resistance +6
- Darkvision 60 ft
- Link
- Share Spells
- Evasion
- Ability Score Increase
- Devotion
- Tumor Familiar
33 000 GP
Amulet of Might Fists (+1) (5000)
28 000
+2 Con/+2 Dex Belt (10 000)
18 000
+2 Con Ioun Stone (8 000)
10 000
+1 Protection Ring (2 000)
+2 Armor Bracers (4 000)
+1 Resistance Cloak (1 000)
3 000
As you can see, in perfect accordance to it's fluff, a Host is a damn cockroach.
- High survability. High saves, AC and HP thanks to stats and bonuses.
- Globally average attack and low damage. Avoid DR at all cost or use bombs on it if you are going for natural attacks.
- A host may also be able to focus on one kind of attack, and become a wonderful one-trick pony, specialist in lots of movement, sensory and control abilities.
- Low alchemy/day, because of the average Intelligence score required to keep up on melee.
To me, it looks at first sight like a qinggong monk, with more powers and more overall versatility at the price of a somewhat lower base combat ability. It doesn't look overpowered, as while it may be hard to put down, at the same level a wizard or barbarian is gonna make you sweat a lot more. In the hands of an imaginative player, could give him/her a lot of fun.
Could also be a cool boss : it's tough, enduring, creepy and shouts evil!omgWTF from all it's mouths.
The same problem with having a gould clone in a game. It's too overpowered. You could help it by having the parasite/ symbiont start out as a first level sorc. or even wizard. Personal spells will affect both the host and the creature. This could be the excuse for spellcasters evolving as the host passes on aptitudes to their offspring.
I thought this would be a good place to discuss the cyst master, but I will have to start a new topic.
|
|
The Host may not share spells/extracts with his symbiont until level 2, when the symbiont becomes also a tumor familiar explicitely calling extracts as something they can share. Even if you would do it, there are probably better things to do with your actions than a familiar using one of your few extracts per day. And don't forget the symbiont has no spells, no body of it's own, and basically, using a spell with a range "personal", even if it affects both the symbiont and the host, will have no effect on the symbiont... especially because a host has not the Summoner spell list, including spells to change evolutions that could help him.
Doing the Host (or symbiont ?) a full spellcaster or giving him real full spellcasting levels is a terrible idea for balance. The Host is already a 2/3 BAB class with more-than-average spellcasting, and is not even considered as having as being a caster for the purposes of any other prestige class or UMD skill.
And on this topic, why exactly do you consider the Host as currently overpowered ? The build I posted before shows that a Host, even when using natural weapons, is similar (if not weaker but more robust) to a well-built monk.
Your BAB increases slower than a real eidolon, including natural armor and ability increase. You use your own feats, so free maneuvers like Trip or Grab are hard to use effectively. You get only one set of limbs, and currently no base shape, so you can't even get Pounce, Constrict, or anything requiring quadrupedal/serpentine/etc. base shape.
Hardly what I would call "overpowered", especially not when compared to another alchemist, to a synthesist, a diviner, or an archer.
You might want to give credit to the manga you're obviously borrowing wholesale from, Kiseiju (Parasyte).
Drat, someone beat me to it!
I have a question.
"The symbiont also gains an Evolution pool as an eidolon of his host's level, the limbs (arms) and the claw evolution for free."
This seems to be the only part of the archtype that indicates the Symbiot must be attached to the Host by an arm. The description seems to indicate that any body part other than the brain can be a Symbiot though. Which is correct?
|
|
You might want to give credit to the manga you're obviously borrowing wholesale from, Kiseiju (Parasyte).Drat, someone beat me to it!
*Hands a golden, Internet cookie*
Should I rewrite the fluff so much, so it doesn't ineluctably divert the attention out of the crunch for all the Parasyte readers out there ? :-p
|
|
"The symbiont also gains an Evolution pool as an eidolon of his host's level, the limbs (arms) and the claw evolution for free."
This seems to be the only part of the archtype that indicates the Symbiot must be attached to the Host by an arm. The description seems to indicate that any body part other than the brain can be a Symbiot though. Which is correct?
The symbiont gains the Limbs (arms) evolution, meaning it can grow two arms (or at least, something looking like it). You can either make it grow the arms on the body part it is stuck in, or anywhere on the body - this is an aesthetic and roleplay choice which doesn't influence the way the arms are used. :) (A host not trusting the symbiont yet may resist it shaping his body, while a duo acting in concert may trust each other entirely. To give you an idea using the Parasyte imagery, it would look like the flesh-warping of a fully overtaken organism.)
While the symbiont is blocked in a body part, this only influences how it may express itself by distording, and creating eyes or mouths. Any other evolutions may be hidden and removed, or shaped as a move action the way you like. This means you can make Limbs (Arms) + the claws that are on the arms appear or disappear as a move action - if they aren't apparent, then they aren't usable. Evolutions that are not obviously apparent, like Poison/Grab or the like, generally don't need to be hidden at all.
Also, note that I forgot a free level 1 evolution in my original post, which is included in the level 8 example build.
EDIT : I think I really need to rewrite the archetype, to give it a better formating, and to remove some ambiguity or potential questions. I'll do it later this day.
*Hands a golden, Internet cookie*
*is in awe of golden cookie*
Must.. not eat.. the cookie..Should I rewrite the fluff so much, so it doesn't ineluctably divert the attention out of the crunch for all the Parasyte readers out there ? :-p
Oh no, that's part of the fun(and it's too late to edit the original post)! ;)
Also, Parasyte isn't the only thing your archtype made me think of.
|
|
Ok, here is the revised Host.
It should be clearer and more exhaustive than the previous writting.
I hope you will like it ! :)
Host
Sometimes, because of a failed spell, a rift through planes, or through horrible manipulations, are born strange creatures defying classification. Such alien beings are most commonly known by scholars as aberrations. While most aberrations end up scattering madness on their path, at best claiming the depths of the darkest dungeons to fest on adventurers, others are parasites. These parasites quickly sneak on the first creature under their reach, invading it's brain to assume control, and become distorded, shape-changing monsters. But some parasites fail to take over the creature. Because the parasite's survival now depends on it's victim's, this creature becomes a Host, blessed – or cursed – with twisted body features, and an uncanny knowledge of the substances needed to survive and become stronger. While few hosts enjoy sharing their body with this strange ally, all acknowledge it's boundless loyalty.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
Hosts are proficient with simple weapons. Hosts gain no proficiency in armors and shields.
Symbiont
At 1st level, a host is invaded by a parasitic aberration. Such entity is usually stuck in the body part the host was able to apply a tourniquet to when it attempted to reach his brain, thus merging the creature with said body part as a survival reflex ; but other circumstances influence the position of the symbiont, and parasites merging in the wrong way while trying to save the life of a dying host aren't unheard of. Ultimately, a symbiont may be placed anywhere on a host body.
A symbiont is a creature with it's own mind and Intelligence, though it's way of apprehending life is usually cold and mechanical, thinking only about it's own survival. A symbiont is incorruptibly loyal to it's host, since the host's death pretty much signifies theirs : a symbiont may attempt to merge with another host, but such operation is so dangerous that few to none would attempt it. As such, all symbionts are strictly Neutral, often suggesting to their host the course to follow, keeping it's morale high, checking his blood pressure or nutritious apports, and complying to his desires, including those that could put it in danger. But the symbiont isn't a slave, and may not hesitate to deprive it's host of any « un-needed » feature (a judgement the host wouldn't probably agree with), should he prove overly agressive and determined enough to get rid of it. As such, a symbiont and a host usually have a close, weird relation and tend to work in concert.
Despite not controlling the brain, a symbiont controls the body part it is stuck in when it desires so, and can speak all of it's host languages. A symbiont may assume the normal apparence of the body part it is stuck in, or distort, extend, and bend in twisted ways up to several feet of distance to move and carry (but not wield) light items on it's own, like keys or books, up to 1 feet and 1/2 lbs. per level. It can freely create eyes or mouths of diverse sizes and on diverses places of the body part, which are required to speak, or see it's surroundings. When a host sleeps, a symbiont enters into hibernation and becomes unconscious. A symbiont may enter into hibernation at any time while the host is awake to give him back the control of the body part, and immediately exit hibernation when the host is endangered or calling for it's assistance.
But the most beneficial way a symbiont interacts with it's host is by it's offensive and defensive enhancements to the host's body. On these aspects, a symbiont is similar to a synthesist summoner's eidolon, with the exception that a symbiont doesn't have it's own physical scores or statistics, and totally depends on the « quality » of it's host body, which it enhances by the ability to shape blade-like weapons from the body part, assume a hardened coating around the body, create membranous wings, etc.
Such abilities are only usable when the host wears no armor, as it disrupts the symbiont's shape-changing powers.
A symbiont has no hit points of it's own. It shares the host's magic item slots (from which he may also fully benefit, including enhancement to it's mental stats) and physical stats, but has a score in each mental stat equal to the Intelligence of a familiar of appropriate level for the host. A symbiont uses the host's skill ranks with it's own modifiers ; and uses it's host's saving throws, which the symbiont improves with diverse abilities by gaining levels.
The symbiont and the host cannot take separate actions in combat ; even though they sometimes seem to attack on their own, this is merely for a common goal, and attacks made from the symbiont aren't different from an attack made by the host. The host uses his own BAB and feats to attack. If the host is put inconscious by an attack, the symbiont stabilizes the host and hibernates immediately until the host is slain or possesses again half his hit points, whichever comes first. The link between the host and his symbiont is odd and powerful : if the host dies, the symbiont dies ; and if the host is bring back to life, the symbiont is too.
Because of it's nature, a symbiont reacts badly to mutagens, and as such, ingesting one is treated as a poison dealing instantly the ability damage it is intended to improve, once per round during 4 rounds, requiring one save with a DC equal to 10 + the alchemist level + the Intelligence modifier of the alchemist who brew it.
The symbiont must hibernate 8 hours before providing any benefit.
Once fully reposed, by sharing a nervous connection with it's host during 1 minute, the symbiont provides the following benefits as long as the host is conscious.
This ability replaces mutagen, throw Anything and the brew potion class features.
The following abilities indicate what benefits a conscious Host gains from it's symbiont after having shared a nervous connection.
Symbiotic Mutation (Ex)
At 1st level, the symbiont provides a +2 natural armor bonus to the host, and a +1 bonus to it's host's Strength and Dexterity. These bonuses increase respectively by +2 and +1 at level 2, then each three levels later (5, 8, 11...) up to +16 and +8 at level 20.
The symbiont also gains an Evolution pool as an eidolon of it's host's level. He gains the Limbs (arms), the Claws and the Unnatural Aura evolutions for free.
The maximum number of natural attacks of a host is equal to an eidolon's of same level, and the save DC against an evolution is based on the host's HD and stat modifiers.
The base form of the symbiont for the purposes of qualifying for evolutions is the base form of it's host ; it must still meet the prerequisites of the evolutions it chooses. For example, a symbiont on a human host could not take Pounce (quadruped base form required), but it could take it on a werewolf host to use when in quadruped shape.
The host gains access to these evolutions, and is considered as having the Eidolon summoner class feature for the purposes of feats.
At the difference of an eidolon, any visible evolutions and their associated evolutions may be hidden, or shaped as a move action. An evolution that is hidden is considered dormant and unusable at the time. For instance, a level 1 host may spend a move action to shape his Limbs(arms) with it's Claws, or another action to hide them ; while a more powerful host could later grow or reduce his size as a move action. Most evolutions, like Scent, Grab, Trip... present no true visual features, and don't need to be hidden in order to be almost undetectable to the naked eye.
Depending on the host and his symbiont's accompliceship, the host may refuse to let the symbiont grow evolutions anywhere else than on the body part the symbiont is stuck in ; this is merely an aesthetic choice that doesn't influence the evolutions's efficiency.
Finally, the symbiont is considered as an eidolon for the purposes of the special abilities it possesses by gaining levels. As such, it gains Darkvision, Link and Share Spells at first level, and others in later levels. The host gains all these abilities.
Symbiont Familiar (Ex)
At 2nd level, the host gains the Tumor Familiar discovery, using his symbiont as a familiar provides him a +3 competence bonus to Intimidation checks. This also allows the symbiont to detach a part of itself from the host ; doing so doesn't affect the benefits provided to the host, including if the familiar is killed (though the familiar itself must still be replaced as normal).
Gory Shield (Ex)
At 4th level, thanks to it's symbiont assuming the shape of a ribbed shield of bones, skin, muscle and blood vessels, the host gains a +2 shield bonus to his Armor Class and a +2 circumstance bonus on his saving throws.
Overwhelming Tactics (Ex)
At 6th level, the host and the symbiont learn to act in concert on their own to distract enemies and become more of a threat. During one round, the host may attack a creature as if he was flanking it.
At 10th level, once per round, the symbiont may use the Aid Another action in place of an attack to provide it's host a +2 bonus to AC against the next attack of an opponent, or a +2 bonus on his next attack against the opponent.
These abilities may be used a number of times per day equal to the host's plus the symbiont's Intelligence modifier, shared between the two abilities.
Hardened Shield (Ex)
At 12th level, the symbiont improves it's ability to absorb hits and put it's host out of danger. The host gains a +4 shield bonus to his Armor Class and a +4 circumstance bonus on his saving throws.
Last Defense (Ex)
At 16th level, the symbiont is able to protect the body of it's host even when it is put unconscious. Once per day, when the host's hit points reach -1, he is stabilized, and gains a number of temporary hit points equal to his level during one hour. The symbiont may keep moving as if it was the host as long as the body has at least 1 temporary hit point.
Perfect Symbiosis (Ex)
At 20th level, a host and his symbiont fully merge, in body and soul. Their personalities, if it wasn't already the case, converge into one. Hidding or shaping an evolution becomes a free action. The host does not need to sleep, and the symbiont does not need to hibernate anymore, including when the host is put unconscious ; allowing the merged organism to keep living and fighting as long as it is able to regenerate it's wounds.
These abilities replace the discovery and true discovery class features.
|
|
Also, Parasyte isn't the only thing your archtype made me think of.
Deathclaw FTW.
*Brofist*
But well... ok, I did some number crunching. And I just made the following constatations.
Bad One : The Host as it is now is potentially broken.
Good One : It just needs some little tweaks to solve the problem !
I tried to create an optimized, Dexterity-focused build. It's awful.
37 AC at level 8 before any buff, just with normal wealth by level and use of class features, including an "Agile" Amulet of Mighty Fists (from the Pathfinder Society Field guide) which allows you to add Dex to Damage. So you have +17 to attack, +11 to damage, up to 5 attacks, with 37 AC, DR 5/good and +20 on reflex saves.
For curious people, you may look at the following build.
Grant MacCheesy (and his female persona symbiont, "Munchkux".)
Host, Level 8
7
32 (Base 19 + 1 from Symbiont's ability score increase + 6 Symbiont + 2 from leveling + 4 Belt) (+11)
16 (Base 14 + 2 from Ioun Stone)
14
12
7
HPs : 7d8 + 8(DV) + 24(Con) + 8(Tough) + 8(Pred)
= 7d8+48 (79 PVs)
AC : 10 + 10(Natural) + 11(Dex) + 1(Defl.) + 2(Armor) + 2(Shield)
= 37/21/23
(Base 16/18/14)
Saves :
Fort : 6+4(Con)+2(Circ)+1(Res) = +14 (+20 poison)
Ref : 6+11(Dex)+2(Circ)+1(Res) = +20
Will : 2+1(Wis)+2(Circ)+1(Res)+4(Morale) = +10
(Base +12(+18 poison)/+14/+6)
Feats :
H. Toughness
1. Weapon Finesse
3. Extra Evolution
5. Extra Evolution
7. Piranha Strike
Evolution pool :
11+2=13
Evolutions :
Free :
- Limbs (Arms)
- Claws (1d6)
- Unnatural Aura
1-point :
- Bite (1d6)
- Improved Natural Armor (x1)
- Reach (Bite)
- Reach (Claw)
- Tentacle (secondary, 1d4)
2-point :
- DR (5/evil)
- Ability Score Increase (x1, Dex.)
- Poison (Bite) (Improved = Symbiont poison—type poison (injury); DC 18 save Fort negates; frequency 1/round for 4 rounds; effect 1d4 Con damage; cure 1 save.)
BAB : +6/+1
Melee : +17/+12
CMB : +6 (+17 Grapple)
(Piranha Strike : -2/+4)
Full-attack with symbiont :
+17 Bite (1d6+11+poison)/
+17 Claw (1d6+11)/
+17 Claw (1d6+11)/
+12 Tentacle (1d4+5)
Special :
- Alchemy
- Bombs (4d6+2)
- Poison Use
- Swift Alchemy
- Poison Resistance +6
- Darkvision 60 ft
- Link
- Share Spells
- Evasion
- Ability Score Increase
- Devotion
- Tumor Familiar
33 000 GP
Amulet of Might Fists (Agile) (5000)
28 000
+4 Dex Belt (16 000)
12 000
+2 Con Ioun Stone (8 000)
4 000
+1 Protection Ring (2 000)
+1 Armor Bracers (1 000)
+1 Resistance Cloak (1 000)
See ? Said so. While the archetype on average is more balanced than a synthesist, it has currently a bigger brokenness potential under bad hands, just by allowing potential Dexterity cheese.
So, here are the highly suggested tweaks to the archetype :
- Symbiotic Mutation (Ex)
At 1st level, the symbiont provides a +2 natural armor bonus to the host, and a +1 bonus to it's host's Strength and Constitution. These bonuses increase respectively by +2 and +1 at level 2, then each three levels later (5, 8, 11...) up to +16 and +8 at level 20.
The bonus to Constitution grants the host hit points, but these disappear when the symbiont hibernates, and are not lost first like temporary hit points.
(and his female persona symbiont, "Shouldbebetterux".)
Host, Level 8
26 (Base 17 + 4 Symbiont + 2 Belt + 2 from leveling + 1 from Symbiont's ability score increase)
16 (Base 14 + 2 Belt)
20 (Base 14 + 4 Symbiont + 2 from Belt)
14
12
7
HPs : 7d8 + 8(DV) + 40(Con) + 8(Tough) + 8(Pred)
= 7d8+64 (95 PVs)
(Base 79 PVs)
(111 PVs when large)
AC : 10 + 8(Natural) + 3(Dex) + 1(Defl.) + 2(Armor) + 2(Shield)
= 26/14/23
(When large : 26/12/24)
(Base 16/14/14)
Saves :
Fort : 6+5(Con)+2(Circ)+1(Res) = +14
Ref : 6+3(Dex)+2(Circ)+1(Res) = +12
Will : 2+1(Wis)+2(Circ)+1(Res)+2(IW)+4(Morale) = +12
(Base +12/+10/+6)
Feats :
H. Toughness
1. Extra Evolution
3. Power Attack
5. Extra Evolution
7. Iron Will
Evolution pool :
11+2=13
Evolutions :
Free :
- Limbs (Arms)
- Claws (1d6)
- Unnatural Aura
1-point :
- Bite (1d6)
- Tentacle (secondary, 1d4)
2-point :
- Large (+8 Str, +4 Con, +1 CMB, -2 Dex, -1 AC, -1 Att, Reach 10)
- Poison (Bite) (Improved = Symbiont poison—type poison (injury); DC 19 save Fort negates; frequency 1/round for 4 rounds; effect 1d4 Con damage; cure 1 save.)
BAB : +6/+1
Melee : +14/+9
CMB : +14
(Power Attack : -2/+4)
(When large:
Melee : +17/+12
CMB : +19)
Symbiont :
+16 Bite (1d6+9+poison)/
+16 Claw (1d6+9)/
+16 Claw (1d6+9)/
+11 Tentacle (1d4+5)
(When large :
+18 Bite (1d8+13+poison)/
+18 Claw (1d8+13)/
+18 Claw (1d8+13)/
+13 Tentacle (1d6+8))
Special :
- Darkvision 60 ft
- Link
- Share Spells
- Evasion
- Ability Score Increase
- Devotion
- Tumor Familiar
33 000 GP
Amulet of Might Fists (+1) (5000)
28 000
+2 Str/+2 Dex/+2 Con Belt (16 000)
12 000
+1 Protection Ring (2 000)
+2 Armor Bracers (4 000)
+1 Resistance Cloak (1 000)
3 000
Being large as a move action provides a nifty boost to offense, but if you are ever reduced inconscious in this state, you lose 4 HP/level, enough to kill most hosts. So maybe the build isn't so well made... ._.
Wow, a dex build that ends up pretty good. With the new change people will just focus more on Str though, and we'll see the same bruiser-types that dominate the DPR Olympics.
I'm not saying the change isn't a good thing, but maybe adding +8 to two ability scores isn't the best idea. Offering a choice between the three physical ability scores might work, or toning down the natural armor bonus.
The gear could be a problem... give me a moment to look something up.
Okay, an 8th level Host as it was could get to that level of AC and attacks, but only if he actually found all of those items or had enough money to buy them(assuming the place he was looking around in had them). Not everything fought has treasure, and not every big town has a lot of magic items(I'm assuming of course, other's games may vary).
Otherwise, starting at 8th level means he could spend no more than 8250 gold on an item, and there are additional restrictions the GM can use.
Table: Character Wealth by Level can also be used to budget gear for characters starting above 1st level, such as a new character created to replace a dead one. Characters should spend no more than half their total wealth on any single item. For a balanced approach, PCs that are built after 1st level should spend no more than 25% of their wealth on weapons, 25% on armor and protective devices, 25% on other magic items, 15% on disposable items like potions, scrolls, and wands, and 10% on ordinary gear and coins. Different character types might spend their wealth differently than these percentages suggest; for example, arcane casters might spend very little on weapons but a great deal more on other magic items and disposable items.
Theorycraft can make a lot of things look broken, like wizards and "But I could cast this spell" that can be seen on these messageboards.
|
|
Okay, an 8th level Host as it was could get to that level of AC and attacks, but only if he actually found all of those items or had enough money to buy them(assuming the place he was looking around in had them). Not everything fought has treasure, and not every big town has a lot of magic items(I'm assuming of course, other's games may vary).
Otherwise, starting at 8th level means he could spend no more than 8250 gold on an item, and there are additional restrictions the GM can use.
Theorycraft can make a lot of things look broken, like wizards and "But I could cast this spell" that can be seen on these messageboards.
Actually, no, the only solid rule a 8th level character must enforce is that he can not have more than 50% of his wealth in a single item. "25%" guidelines are only guidelines, especially calling on the fact that a character who has no interest in a specific category of items may spend the money elsewhere (I guess you don't ask the wizard to spend 25% of his gold in a magic weapon). And none of the previous builds break this rule, plus I assume DMs will not be jerk enough to deny a character the loot it needs to be potent in combat.
Wow, a dex build that ends up pretty good. With the new change people will just focus more on Str though, and we'll see the same bruiser-types that dominate the DPR Olympics.
I'm not saying the change isn't a good thing, but maybe adding +8 to two ability scores isn't the best idea. Offering a choice between the three physical ability scores might work, or toning down the natural armor bonus.
Using MacReady's build, toning down the natural armor bonus by 1 point per increase provides a +4 natural armor bonus instead of a +8 at level 8. So, 24 base AC.
Using MacCheesy's build, we are still down to 33 AC, while a Monk of same level may only have 26 AC if optimized, up to 30 with a ki point or 33 if using both a ki point and the Barkskin Qinggong power. And even then, you deal less damage with an Agile amulet : +12 Attack/2d6+5 (average 13) against +17 Attack/1d6+11 (average 14,5), 3 attacks at full BAB against two. Even with Stunning fist, I don't see that beating a full-day, undispellable buff.I thought about reducing the bonus to stats but making it more durable. I think this could work like the mutagen : +8/+6/+4, or +8/+4/+2 against the current +8/+8. Something like this :
"At 1st level, the symbiont provides a +1 natural armor bonus to the host. This bonuses increases by +1 at level 2, then each three levels later (5, 8, 11...) up to +8 at level 20. The symbiont also reinforces it's host's body, giving him a +1 bonus to one of his physical stats (Strength, Dexterity or Constitution) ; this choice is made at level 1 and is definitive. This bonus increases by 1 at level 4, then every four levels later, up to +6 at level 20. At level 8, the host chooses another physical stat to which it's symbiont provides a +1 bonus ; this bonus increases at the same levels than the first physical stat. At level 16, the host gains a bonus to it's third physical stat, this bonus increases as normal (up to +6/+4/+2 at level 20).
To the contrary of evolutions, these bonuses are preserved even when the symbiont hibernates, as they improve the host to a cellulary level."
At level 8, the Host would have maximum +3 to Dex/+1 to Con instead of +4 Str/+4 Dex currently. So on a cheese build, it's already -1 to AC, attack, damage, and reflex, unless the host spends points to gain an evolution improving Dexterity and invests a maximum in this stat... and actually, I think the maximum number of natural attacks should maybe be lower : restricted to 3, like an optimized Feral Alchemist.
So, McCheesy, with these modifications, has now +16 to hit, 3 attacks maximum, +10 to damage, and 31 AC.
Looks "pretty good and optimized" without being too much powerful, even though I still find it more potent than most options... ._.
Actually, no, the only solid rule a 8th level character must enforce is that he can not have more than 50% of his wealth in a single item.
I said there were restrictions a GM can enforce. The guidelines I quoted are some of those restrictions.
"At 1st level, the symbiont provides a +1 natural armor bonus to the host. This bonuses increases by +1 at level 2, then each three levels later (5, 8, 11...) up to +8 at level 20. The symbiont also reinforces it's host's body, giving him a +1 bonus to one of his physical stats (Strength, Dexterity or Constitution) ; this choice is made at level 1 and is definitive."
This looks more balanced. Perhaps you should post him in the DPR Olympics and see what other people have to say. It could generate a lot more feedback than just a few others and myself.
Another idea I've had would be to lower the number of evolution points a Symbiot has(perhaps equal the Host's level, minimum one plus their Host's intelligence modifier?), and restricting them to Evolutions that only an Eidolon with the same build as their Host could have. Elf Host = Biped Evolutions only for example.
|
|
This looks more balanced. Perhaps you should post him in the DPR Olympics and see what other people have to say. It could generate a lot more feedback than just a few others and myself.
Another idea I've had would be to lower the number of evolution points a Symbiot has(perhaps equal the Host's level, minimum one plus their Host's intelligence modifier?), and restricting them to Evolutions that only an Eidolon with the same build as their Host could have. Elf Host = Biped Evolutions only for example.
Well, I don't think anyone in the DPR thread would take a "3pp" archetype in development really seriously.
Reducing the number of Evo points is both a good and a bad idea, because you lose in versatility what you could have -not- used in natural weapons. But I think I may well adopt your idea, since your Level + Int. modifier formula, with 14 base Int, gives you the same amount of Evo than an eidolon at low levels - you get less points than an eidolon at mid and high levels, but you may counterbalance this with Stat-enhancer items. Level + Host's Int. modifier would be even better : you begin with less or an equal number of points, you pretty much HAVE to spend ressources to improve this stat if you wish to remain competitive... and each point/GP put in Intelligence is a point that doesn't cheese the physical stats.
I would like to add the Symbiont's modifier in the equation, but since it begins with 6 Int and any Mental stat enhancer item works both on your Symbiont AND the host, I fear this would be too weak at lower level and too powerful later.
On the other side, you get a lot of features, including Darkvision and Evasion... (and the build restriction about what a symbiont's base size is for the purposes of qualifying for an evolution is already written in the archetype, look better, basically a symbiont already can't choose any power that is not one of the host's base shapes, and in this case, it may still only use an evolution when in the appropriate shape ;)).
What if it was only half of the Symbiont's Intelligence Modifier, minimum 1?
Or
What if the Symbiont's Intelligence modifier could only be added a certain number of times a day, like a cross between evolution surge and a first level bloodline power?
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Also, Parasyte isn't the only thing your archtype made me think of.Deathclaw FTW.
*Brofist*
But well... ok, I did some number crunching. And I just made the following constatations.
Bad One : The Host as it is now is potentially broken.
Good One : It just needs some little tweaks to solve the problem !I tried to create an optimized, Dexterity-focused build. It's awful.
37 AC at level 8 before any buff, just with normal wealth by level and use of class features, including an "Agile" Amulet of Mighty Fists (from the Pathfinder Society Field guide) which allows you to add Dex to Damage. So you have +17 to attack, +11 to damage, up to 5 attacks, with 37 AC, DR 5/good and +20 on reflex saves.For curious people, you may look at the following build.
** spoiler omitted **...
I think this revision balances the archetype a lot more.
I think one modification should be made to Gory Shield... it shouldn't be an always on type of power, it should be something that can be activated as a swift action a certain number of rounds per day (probably based on Con bonus), non-consecutive. Otherwise you envision the character always having this shield of nastiness attached to their arm, and it could be unweildy. It should also preclude the use of a weapon in that hand, so Two-Weapon fighting is out while it's active. I'm imagining the Host attacking his enemy with his weapon and all his natural attacks, then activating the gory shield to keep from being pummeled on the enemy's turn. Any thoughts?
|
|
What if it was only half of the Symbiont's Intelligence Modifier, minimum 1?
Or
What if the Symbiont's Intelligence modifier could only be added a certain number of times a day, like a cross between evolution surge and a first level bloodline power?
1) Mmh... trying a calculation. Base 14 Int for the Host, and 6 for the Symbiont's.
Level 1 :
Host's level + 1/2 Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + 1/2 Symbiont's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) = 3. Same than an eidolon.
Level 5 (+2 Int. item : 16 base for the Host, 10 for the Symbiont) :
Host's level + 1/2 Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + 1/2 Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) = 7. Lower than an eidolon.
Level 10 (+4 Int. item : 18 base for the Host, 14 for the Symbiont) :
Host's level + 1/2 Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + 1/2 Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) = 9. Way lower than an eidolon.
Level 15 (+6 Int. item : 20-22 base for the Host, 19 for the Symbiont) :
Host's level + 1/2 Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + 1/2 Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) = 11/12. Waaaay lower than an eidolon.
---------
Looks like this isn't the good formula yet. Note that whatever the calculation, a host may theorically begin with more Evo, but it would mean nerfing badly the physical stats or the Will saves - both things you don't want when you rely basically on melee combat (though I guess an archer host could also be effective).
Let's try "Host's level + Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + 1/2 Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 0)".
Level 1 :
Host's level + Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + 1/2 Symbiont's Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) = 3. Same than an eidolon.
Level 5 (+2 Int. item : 16 base for the Host, 10 for the Symbiont) :
Host's level + Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + 1/2 Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) = 8. Same than an eidolon.
Level 10 (+4 Int. item : 18 base for the Host, 14 for the Symbiont) :
Host's level + Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + 1/2 Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) = 15. Slightly better than an eidolon.
Level 15 (+6 Int. item : 20-22 base for the Host, 19 for the Symbiont) :
Host's level + Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + 1/2 Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) = 22/23. Better than an eidolon.
Level 20 (+6 Int. item, +4 inherent bonus : 24-26 base for the Host, 22 for the Symbiont) :
Host's level + Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + 1/2 Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) = 30/31. Way better than an eidolon.
--------
Not good yet.
Let's try "1/2 Host's level + Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 1)".
Level 1 :
1/2 Host's level + Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + Symbiont's Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) = 3. Same than an eidolon.
Level 5 (+2 Int. item : 16 base for the Host, 10 for the Symbiont) :
1/2 Host's level + Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) = 5. Lower than an eidolon.
Level 10 (+4 Int. item : 18 base for the Host, 14 for the Symbiont) :
1/2 Host's level + Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + 1/2 Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) = 9. Way lower than an eidolon.
------
Still not good. Let's take again the first formula, modified for "Host's level + 1/2 Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + Symbiont's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1)".
Level 1 :
Host's level + 1/2 Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + Symbiont's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) = 3. Same than an eidolon.
Level 5 (+2 Int. item : 16 base for the Host, 10 for the Symbiont) :
Host's level + 1/2 Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) = 7. Slightly lower than an eidolon.
Level 10 (+4 Int. item : 18 base for the Host, 14 for the Symbiont) :
Host's level + 1/2 Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) = 14. Same than an eidolon !
Level 15 (+6 Int. item : 20-22 base for the Host, 19 for the Symbiont) :
Host's level + 1/2 Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) = 21/22. Slightly better than an eidolon.
Level 20 (+6 Int. item, +4 inherent bonus : 24-26 base for the Host, 22 for the Symbiont) :
Host's level + 1/2 Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) = 29/30. Better than an eidolon.
------
2) I think it would add both too much book keeping, and too much Evo to the host, even if you limit it per day... if you look at the previous conclusion, I think we can safely say "Host's level + 1/2 Host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + Symbion't Intelligence modifier (minimum 1)" is the perfect formula.
You are slightly better than a summoner on average at high levels, but he may be better any time by casting one spell, and the summoner doesn't need to invest any GP to gain the Evo - so you are potentially better, but you must heavily sacrifice somthing else in exchange.
The thing is, while it is a shield bonus, it is not a shield that you hold in your hand(according to the description).
At 4th level, thanks to it's symbiont assuming the shape of a ribbed shield of bones, skin, muscle and blood vessels, the host gains a +2 shield bonus to his Armor Class and a +2 circumstance bonus on his saving throws.
This could just as easily been an untyped bonus to Armor Class, but was made a shield bonus to keep it from getting too powerful.
I think you should submit this archtype in the next RPG Superstar.
You are slightly better than a summoner on average at high levels, but he may be better any time by casting one spell, and the summoner doesn't need to invest any GP to gain the Evo - so you are potentially better, but you must heavily sacrifice somthing else in exchange.
Sounds good to me. You also don't have the same advantage in action economy that a Druid/Summoner and their Companion/Eidolon would have, since you either attack or drink an extract.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
The thing is, while it is a shield bonus, it is not a shield that you hold in your hand(according to the description).
At 4th level, thanks to it's symbiont assuming the shape of a ribbed shield of bones, skin, muscle and blood vessels, the host gains a +2 shield bonus to his Armor Class and a +2 circumstance bonus on his saving throws.This could just as easily been an untyped bonus to Armor Class, but was made a shield bonus to keep it from getting too powerful.
I think you should submit this archtype in the next RPG Superstar.
While I understand your argument, if you're giving a Shield bonus then it should fit flavor-wise, which means there should be some type of thing that looks like a shield (or a magical shield floating in front, but that would make no sense in this case). If you want it to be an armor bonus, make it an armor bonus, or increase natural armor. I still think it might be better to have it be a certain number of rounds per day though. Even if it's a natural armor bonus, you're still imagining this hardened shell of nastiness covering the guy's body all day... seems strange. It'd make more sense to have the symbiont stretch out and cover his host for a certain length of time, giving him the bonus.
|
|
I think this revision balances the archetype a lot more.
Since the revision precludes too much the possiblity to build a Dexterity focused Host, I'll go instead for the following :
Stat/armor enhancement :
"At 1st level, the symbiont provides a +1 natural armor bonus to the host. This bonuses increases by +1 at level 2, then each three levels later (5, 8, 11...) up to +8 at level 20. The symbiont also reinforces it's host's body, giving him a +1 bonus to one of his physical stats (Strength, Dexterity or Constitution) ; this choice is made at level 1 and is definitive. This bonus increases by 1 at level 4, then every four levels later, up to +6 at level 20. At level 8, the host chooses another physical stat to which it's symbiont provides a +1 bonus ; this bonus increases at the same levels than the first physical stat. At level 16, the host gains a bonus to it's third physical stat, this bonus increases as normal (up to +6/+4/+2 at level 20).
To the contrary of evolutions, these bonuses are preserved even when the symbiont hibernates, as they improve the host to a cellulary level."
Evo Pool :
Based on level and Host's/symbiont's Intelligence.
Maximum number of natural attacks/round :
3 ? I'm not fixed about this.
Since this means you gain half the previous AC and Stats boosts, and that your pool depends directly on the GP and ability increases you will invest in a stat that doesn't help your offense, this should keep the balance.
I think one modification should be made to Gory Shield... it shouldn't be an always on type of power, it should be something that can be activated as a swift action a certain number of rounds per day (probably based on Con bonus), non-consecutive. Otherwise you envision the character always having this shield of nastiness attached to their arm, and it could be unweildy. It should also preclude the use of a weapon in that hand, so Two-Weapon fighting is out while it's active. I'm imagining the Host attacking his enemy with his weapon and all his natural attacks, then activating the gory shield to keep from being pummeled on the enemy's turn. Any thoughts?
This is indeed a good idea, but I fear this could be an unnecessary nerf when added to the rest. A synthesist doesn't need to spend an action for the shield to work, and I also vizualise it both as the symbiont creating a shield of gore at the perfect time, or shaping sharp tentacles to deflect blows and cross swords independently from the host.
Also, I don't think TWFing would really be so big a problem when you consider the amount of feats it will need, when natural weapons are freely accessible and allow you to attack at full BAB (granted, TWFing with a two-handed primary weapon provides a boost to damage, but look at any of the previous builds to see how much a host is feat-starved to not in addition need TWFing).The shield provides a bonus to saving throws too, and it would suffice for a wizard to ready a spell for your protection to mean nothing... while I keep the idea to nerf the Gory Shield, I don't think it will be necessary - remember that a Host may not even wield armors, and the MacReady build posted first shows that now, he would have 22-24 AC at level 8 before any buff and by including the full-time shield.
Huh, didn't think about it being visual like that, but I guess it would have to be, wouldn't it?
It's worth noting that some of thiese abilities are coming from the Synthesist Summoner archtype, and Gory Shield is just Shielded Meld with a different name.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Huh, didn't think about it being visual like that, but I guess it would have to be, wouldn't it?
It's worth noting that some of thiese abilities are coming from the Synthesist Summoner archtype, and Gory Shield is just Shielded Meld with a different name.
Ah, but see the Synthesist Summoner is straight up magic use, so you can imagine a shield just materializing out of thin air in front of him at the right time. If you're going for a more raw, physical idea for this archetype, you've gotta stick with that flavor. I propose that it's either an armor bonus, or you write a little fluff for it and call it a deflection bonus (the tentacles pop out and deflect attacks). Untyped is too good, and natural armor is already getting a boost. You've got to make sure that there is at least one armor type that this won't stack with, otherwise it's too good.
For all the fluff of an ability matters, a Synthesist's Eidolon is just a mutation he has that changes his flesh when he takes the time to make it happen.
The Symiont itself sounds like a magical creature in it's own right as well.
Making it an Armor bonus opens up the use of a Ring of Shielding, while keeping it a Shield bonus allows Bracers of Armor and Mage Armor to be effective.
Both bonuses have advantages and disadvantages.
|
|
I think you should submit this archtype in the next RPG Superstar.
Are we even allowed to submit archetypes which where already discussed somewhere in the forums, obviously using another's official class or archetype abilities, or completed thanks to external opinions ?
While I understand your argument, if you're giving a Shield bonus then it should fit flavor-wise, which means there should be some type of thing that looks like a shield (or a magical shield floating in front, but that would make no sense in this case).
Remember that the Host may not wear armor, but may also not wear shield from the time you get this ability since two similar bonuses will not stack. The Shield spell is already accessible to a first level alchemist, and even the Shielded Meld synthesist ability has nothing to do with magic, since it is an Extraordinary ability.
I honestly don't see the problem with the shield bonus, neither fluffwise (the symbiont extends and covers a body part/creates sharp tentacles to parry blows/the symbiont warps the flesh and bones to create a triangular protection whenever a body part is attacked), nor in terms of balance - shield bonus doesn't increase touch AC, and is one of the easiest buffs to gain while being less efficient than said 1st level buff, at the cost of lasting longer. The host already isn't an AC powerhouse when done properly, limiting access to a defensive feature that the synthesist gains lacks a bit of luster.
I think you should submit this archtype in the next RPG Superstar.Are we even allowed to submit archetypes which where already discussed somewhere in the forums, obviously using another's official class or archetype abilities, or completed thanks to external opinions ?
Hmm... I don't know. Probably not though. :(
|
|
For all the fluff of an ability matters, a Synthesist's Eidolon is just a mutation he has that changes his flesh when he takes the time to make it happen.
The Symiont itself sounds like a magical creature in it's own right as well.
Making it an Armor bonus opens up the use of a Ring of Shielding, while keeping it a Shield bonus allows Bracers of Armor and Mage Armor to be effective.
Both bonuses have advantages and disadvantages.
The symbiont is indeed a magical creature of it's own right, but it provides no enhancement bonus, since it warps the host at a cellular level. Extracts, and Bombs still are a (Su) ability though. Your evolutions, AC and stat bonuses are kept in an antimagic field, but you lose any other bonus from spells/extracts/items, this may make you lose evolutions as long as you are into the field.
Note that the symbiont emits a Transmutation aura at any time, and provides the host with the Unnatural Aura evolution for free at level 1 : animals and companions smell that something is wrong with the Host.Also, if I made it an armor bonus, I could just wield a light mithral shield without any penalty, and focus on bite attacks with reach and lots of funny features like Trip and Grab.
Also, if I made it an armor bonus, I could just wield a light mithral shield without any penalty, and focus on bite attacks with reach and lots of funny features like Trip and Grab.
To be fair, you can do this anyway and get the benefit of shield enhancements like Fortification or Arrow Deflection.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
For all the fluff of an ability matters, a Synthesist's Eidolon is just a mutation he has that changes his flesh when he takes the time to make it happen.
The Symiont itself sounds like a magical creature in it's own right as well.
Making it an Armor bonus opens up the use of a Ring of Shielding, while keeping it a Shield bonus allows Bracers of Armor and Mage Armor to be effective.
Both bonuses have advantages and disadvantages.
The symbiont is indeed a magical creature of it's own right, but it provides no enhancement bonus, since it warps the host at a cellular level. Extracts, and Bombs still are a (Su) ability though. Your evolutions, AC and stat bonuses are kept in an antimagic field, but you lose any other bonus from spells/extracts/items, this may make you lose evolutions as long as you are into the field.
Note that the symbiont emits a Transmutation aura at any time, and provides the host with the Unnatural Aura evolution for free at level 1 : animals and companions smell that something is wrong with the Host.Also, if I made it an armor bonus, I could just wield a light mithral shield without any penalty, and focus on bite attacks with reach and lots of funny features like Trip and Grab.
I think an armor bonus makes a lot more sense than shield, and yeah that way he could still carry a shield if he felt so inclined as to get the shield proficiency feat. Having no armor proficiency is a big deal, and using this would balance that out a bit.
Having no armor proficiency is a big deal, and using this would balance that out a bit.
I believe the Natural Armor bonus and the ability to up your Dexterity are meant to counteract this. Also remember that the Alchemist has access to a few spells that boost his Armor Class for a while or give a miss chance. Shield, Barkskin, Cat's Grace, Haste, and Displacement just from the APG alone can help.
|
|
Having no armor proficiency is a big deal, and using this would balance that out a bit.I believe the Natural Armor bonus and the ability to up your Dexterity are meant to counteract this. Also remember that the Alchemist has access to a few spells that boost his Armor Class for a while or give a miss chance. Shield, Barkskin, Cat's Grace, Haste, and Displacement just from the APG alone can help.
^ This. The symbiont already provides an armor-like bonus, but to natural armor, which makes more sense fluffwise than armor itself if it doesn't explicitely look like an armor (which is the case). The symbiont may also improve dexterity, and thus, AC, without even including Ability-enhancing evolutions or extracts.
Also, where did you find that the alchemist would need to spend a feat for shield proficiency ? A mithral heavy shield provides a +2 base bonus to AC, doesn't even hinder natural attacks since the Host has his own arms to use, and gives no spell failure to the alchemist nor attack penalty.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Having no armor proficiency is a big deal, and using this would balance that out a bit.I believe the Natural Armor bonus and the ability to up your Dexterity are meant to counteract this. Also remember that the Alchemist has access to a few spells that boost his Armor Class for a while or give a miss chance. Shield, Barkskin, Cat's Grace, Haste, and Displacement just from the APG alone can help.^ This. The symbiont already provides an armor-like bonus, but to natural armor, which makes more sense fluffwise than armor itself if it doesn't explicitely look like an armor (which is the case). The symbiont may also improve dexterity, and thus, AC, without even including Ability-enhancing evolutions or extracts.
Also, where did you find that the alchemist would need to spend a feat for shield proficiency ? A mithral heavy shield provides a +2 base bonus to AC, doesn't even hinder natural attacks since the Host has his own arms to use, and gives no spell failure to the alchemist nor attack penalty.
Shield Proficiency (Combat)
You are trained in how to properly use a shield.Benefit: When you use a shield (except a tower shield), the shield's armor check penalty only applies to Strength- and Dexterity-based skills.
Normal: When you are using a shield with which you are not proficient, you take the shield's armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all skill checks that involve moving.
^ Going from this, even the natural attacks from the symbiont would take a penalty to attack rolls equal to the shield's armor check penalty unless the Alchemist is proficient with the shield. Am I wrong here?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Another revised version. We're getting to the goal, little by little.
Host
Sometimes, because of a failed spell, a rift through planes, or through horrible manipulations, are born strange creatures defying classification. Such alien beings are most commonly known by scholars as aberrations. While most aberrations end up scattering madness on their path, at best claiming the depths of the darkest dungeons to fest on adventurers, others are parasites. These parasites quickly sneak on the first creature under their reach, invading it's brain to assume control, and become distorded, shape-changing monsters. But some parasites fail to take over the creature. Because the parasite's survival now depends on it's victim's, this creature becomes a Host, blessed – or cursed – with twisted body features, and an uncanny knowledge of the substances needed to survive and become stronger. While few hosts enjoy sharing their body with this strange ally, all acknowledge it's boundless loyalty.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
Hosts are proficient with simple weapons. Hosts gain no proficiency in armors and shields.
Symbiont
At 1st level, a host is invaded by a parasitic aberration. Such entity is usually stuck in the body part the host was able to apply a tourniquet to when it attempted to reach his brain, thus merging the creature with said body part as a survival reflex ; but other circumstances influence the position of the symbiont, and parasites merging in the wrong way while trying to save the life of a dying host aren't unheard of. Ultimately, a symbiont may be placed anywhere on a host body.
A symbiont is a creature with it's own mind and Intelligence, though it's way of apprehending life is usually cold and mechanical, thinking only about it's own survival. A symbiont is incorruptibly loyal to it's host, since the host's death pretty much signifies theirs : a symbiont may attempt to merge with another host, but such operation is so dangerous that few to none would attempt it. As such, all symbionts are strictly Neutral, often suggesting to their host the course to follow, keeping it's morale high, checking his blood pressure or nutritious apports, and complying to his desires, including those that could put it in danger. But the symbiont isn't a slave, and may not hesitate to deprive it's host of any « un-needed » feature (a judgement the host wouldn't probably agree with), should he prove overly agressive and determined enough to get rid of it. As such, a symbiont and a host usually have a close, weird relation and tend to work in concert.
Despite not controlling the brain, a symbiont controls the body part it is stuck in when it desires so, and can speak all of it's host languages. A symbiont may assume the normal apparence of the body part it is stuck in, or distort, extend, and bend in twisted ways up to several feet of distance to move and carry (but not wield) light items on it's own, like keys or books, up to 1 feet and 1/2 lbs. per level. It can freely create eyes or mouths of diverse sizes and on diverses places of the body part, which are required to speak, or see it's surroundings. When a host sleeps, a symbiont enters into hibernation and becomes unconscious. A symbiont may enter into hibernation at any time while the host is awake to give him back the control of the body part, and immediately exit hibernation when the host is endangered or calling for it's assistance.
But the most beneficial way a symbiont interacts with it's host is by it's offensive and defensive enhancements to the host's body. On these aspects, a symbiont is similar to a synthesist summoner's eidolon, with the exception that a symbiont doesn't have it's own physical scores or statistics, and totally depends on the « quality » of it's host body, which it enhances by the ability to shape blade-like weapons from the body part, assume a hardened coating around the body, create membranous wings, etc.
Such abilities are only usable when the host wears no armor, as it disrupts the symbiont's shape-changing powers.
A symbiont has no hit points of it's own. It shares the host's magic item slots (from which he may also fully benefit, including enhancement to it's mental stats) and physical stats, but has a score in each mental stat equal to the Intelligence of a familiar of appropriate level for the host. A symbiont uses the host's skill ranks with it's own modifiers ; and uses it's host's saving throws, which the symbiont improves with diverse abilities by gaining levels.
The symbiont and the host cannot take separate actions in combat ; even though they sometimes seem to attack on their own, this is merely for a common goal, and attacks made from the symbiont aren't different from an attack made by the host. The host uses his own BAB and feats to attack. If the host is put inconscious by an attack, the symbiont stabilizes the host and hibernates immediately until the host is slain or possesses again half his hit points, whichever comes first. The link between the host and his symbiont is odd and powerful : if the host dies, the symbiont dies ; and if the host is bring back to life, the symbiont is too.
Because of it's nature, a symbiont reacts badly to mutagens, and as such, ingesting one is treated as a poison dealing instantly the ability damage it is intended to improve, once per round during 4 rounds, requiring one save with a DC equal to 10 + the alchemist level + the Intelligence modifier of the alchemist who brew it.
The symbiont must hibernate 8 hours before providing any benefit.
Once fully reposed, by sharing a nervous connection with it's host during 1 minute, the symbiont provides the following benefits as long as the host is conscious.
This ability replaces mutagen, throw Anything and the brew potion class features.
The following abilities indicate what benefits a conscious Host gains from it's symbiont after having shared a nervous connection.
Symbiotic Mutation (Ex)
At 1st level, the symbiont provides a +1 natural armor bonus to the host. This bonuses increases by +1 at level 2, then each three levels later (5, 8, 11...) up to +8 at level 20.
The symbiont also reinforces it's host's body, giving him a +1 bonus to one of his physical stats (Strength, Dexterity or Constitution) ; this choice is made at level 1 and is definitive. This bonus increases by 1 at level 4, then every four levels later, up to +6 at level 20. At level 8, the host chooses another physical stat to which it's symbiont provides a +1 bonus ; this bonus increases at the same levels than the first physical stat. At level 16, the host gains a bonus to it's third physical stat, this bonus increases as normal (up to +6/+4/+2 at level 20).
To the contrary of evolutions, these bonuses are preserved even when the symbiont hibernates, as they improve the host to a cellulary level.
The symbiont also gains an Evolution pool, like an eidolon, with a number of Evolution Points equal to the host's level + 1/2 the host's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) + the symbiont's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). The symbiont also gains the Limbs(arms), Claws and Unnatural Aura[UM] evolutions for free.
It's base form for the purposes of qualifying for evolutions is the base form of it's host ; it must still meet the prerequisites of the evolutions it chooses. For example, a symbiont on a human host would be considered biped, and could not take Pounce (quadruped base form required) ; but it could take Pounce if one of it's host's shapes is quadruped (like a werewolf), in which case Pounce would only work when the host is in the appropriate shape. If the host possesses abilities allowing him to change in an appropriate shape (like a Druid's Wild Shape, or a Beast Shape alchemical extract), this allows the symbiont to qualify for these evolutions ; these evolutions only work when the host is in the appropriate shape.
The maximum number of natural attacks of a host is equal to an eidolon's of same level, and the save DC against an evolution is based on the host's HD and stat modifiers -2.
The host gains access to these evolutions, and is considered as having the Eidolon summoner class feature for the purposes of feats.
At the difference of an eidolon, any visible evolutions and their associated evolutions may be hidden, or shaped as a move action. An evolution that is hidden is considered dormant and unusable at the time. For instance, a level 1 host may spend a move action to shape his Limbs(arms) with it's Claws, or another action to hide them ; while a more powerful host could later grow or reduce his size as a move action. Most evolutions, like Scent, Grab, Trip... present no true visual features, and don't need to be hidden in order to be almost undetectable to the naked eye. Any reduction to the host's or it's symbiont's Intelligence modifier (like by wearing a +4 Headband made unusable in an antimagic field), also removes an appropriate number of evolution points and their associated evolutions ; the choice of the temporary lost evolutions is made by the host when the reduction occurs.
Depending on the host and his symbiont's accompliceship, the host may refuse to let the symbiont grow evolutions anywhere else than on the body part the symbiont is stuck in ; this is merely an aesthetic choice that doesn't influence the evolutions's efficiency.
Finally, the symbiont is considered as an eidolon for the purposes of the special abilities it possesses by gaining levels. As such, it gains Darkvision, Link and Share Spells at first level, and others in later levels. The host gains all these abilities.
Symbiont Familiar (Ex)
At 2nd level, the host gains the Tumor Familiar discovery, using his symbiont as a familiar provides him a +3 competence bonus to Intimidation checks. This also allows the symbiont to detach a part of itself from the host ; doing so doesn't affect the benefits provided to the host, including if the familiar is killed (though the familiar itself must still be replaced as normal).
Gory Shield (Ex)
At 4th level, thanks to it's symbiont assuming the shape of a ribbed shield of bones, skin, muscle and blood vessels whenever attacked, the host gains a +2 shield bonus to his Armor Class and a +2 circumstance bonus on his saving throws.
Overwhelming Tactics (Ex)
At 6th level, the host and the symbiont learn to act in concert on their own to distract enemies and become more of a threat. When he attacks, the host may attack a creature as if he was flanking it.
At 10th level, once per round, the symbiont may use the Aid Another action in place of an attack to provide it's host a +2 bonus to AC against the next attack of an opponent, or a +2 bonus on his next attack against the opponent.
These abilities may be used a number of times per day equal to the host's plus the symbiont's Intelligence modifier, shared between the two abilities.
Hardened Shield (Ex)
At 12th level, the symbiont improves it's ability to absorb hits and put it's host out of danger. It's gory shield now provides a +4 shield bonus to the host's Armor Class, and a +4 circumstance bonus on his saving throws. These bonuses replace the bonuses provided by the Gory Shield ability.
Last Defense (Ex)
At 16th level, the symbiont is able to protect the body of it's host even when it is put unconscious. Once per day, when the host's hit points reach -1, he is stabilized, and gains a number of temporary hit points equal to his level during one hour. The symbiont may keep moving as if it was the host as long as the body has at least 1 temporary hit point.
Perfect Symbiosis (Ex)
At 20th level, a host and his symbiont fully merge, in body and soul. Their personalities, if it wasn't already the case, converge into one. Hidding or shaping an evolution becomes a free action. The host does not need to sleep, and the symbiont does not need to hibernate anymore, including when the host is put unconscious ; allowing the merged organism to keep living and fighting as long as it is able to regenerate it's wounds.
These abilities replace the discovery and true discovery class features.
Let's see what we get now with McCheesy's son.
Grant MacCheesy Jr. (and his female persona symbiont, "Munchkux II".)
Host, Level 8
7
31 (Base 19 + 1 from Symbiont's ability score increase + 3(+2) Symbiont + 2 from leveling + 4 Belt) (+10)
17 (Base 14 + 1 Symbiont + 2 Ioun Stone)
14
12
7
HPs : 7d8 + 8(DV) + 24(Con) + 8(Tough) + 8(Pred)
= 7d8+48 (79 PVs)
AC : 10 + 6(Natural) + 10(Dex) + 1(Defl.) + 2(Armor) + 2(Shield)
= 30/21/21
(Base 29/20/17)
Saves :
Fort : 6+3(Con)+2(Circ)+1(Res) = +12 (+18 poison)
Ref : 6+10(Dex)+2(Circ)+1(Res) = +19
Will : 2+1(Wis)+2(Circ)+1(Res)+4(Morale) = +10
(Base +10(+16 poison)/+16/+4)
Feats :
H. Toughness
1. Weapon Finesse
3. Extra Evolution
5. Extra Evolution
7. Piranha Strike
Evolution pool :
8+1+1(+2) = 12
Evolutions :
Free :
- Limbs (Arms)
- Claws (1d6)
- Unnatural Aura
1-point :
- Bite (1d6)
- Improved Natural Armor (x1)
- Reach (Bite)
- Reach (Claw)
- Scent
- Tentacle (secondary, 1d4)
2-point :
- Ability Score Increase (x1, Dex.)
- Poison (Bite) (Improved = Symbiont poison—type poison (injury); DC 15 save Fort negates; frequency 1/round for 4 rounds; effect 1d4 Con damage; cure 1 save.)
BAB : +6/+1
Melee : +16/+11
CMB : +6
(Piranha Strike : -2/+4)
Full-attack with symbiont :
+16 Bite (1d6+10+poison)/
+16 Claw (1d6+10)/
+16 Claw (1d6+10)/
+11 Tentacle (1d4+5)
Special :
- Alchemy
- Bombs (4d6+2)
- Poison Use
- Swift Alchemy
- Poison Resistance +6
- Darkvision 60 ft
- Link
- Share Spells
- Evasion
- Ability Score Increase
- Devotion
- Tumor Familiar
33 000 GP
Amulet of Might Fists (Agile) (5000)
28 000
+4 Dex Belt (16 000)
12 000
+2 Ioun Stone (8 000)
4 000
+1 Protection Ring (2 000)
+1 Armor Bracers (1 000)
+1 Resistance Cloak (1 000)
Suddenly a lot less potent, even if focusing in pure dexterity means you will land next to no damage during at least 4 or 5 levels, unless the DM is kind with you. Let's not even talk about DR. It's a build that I would probably not call « overpowered », especially compared to a two-handed fighter who can hit twice harder on each attack, and seeing how much it depends on finding the good items at the good time – granted, this isn't really a problem in most games. Also, will saves are average, even when buffed by the symbiont during the day. An enchanter of this level could have a 22 to the DC to beat against it's spells, so less than 50% to save against an Overwhelming Grief spell (which, if failed, makes him lose 12 AC and his actions).
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Another revised version. We're getting to the goal, little by little.
** spoiler omitted **...
One quick gripe, you should change the text of Hardened Shield to say that it replaces the bonus from Gory Shield. A higher shield bonus wouldn't stack anyway, but it'll sound better.
|
|
One quick gripe, you should change the text of Hardened Shield to say that it replaces the bonus from Gory Shield. A higher shield bonus wouldn't stack anyway, but it'll sound better.Another revised version. We're getting to the goal, little by little.
** spoiler omitted **...
Done. Even if it is already stated in the rules that similar bonuses don't stack ; I made it clearer in the description. :)
|
|
I just realized that the Host's bombs will do base bomb damage, without Intelligence. The +intelligence bonus to damage on bombs comes from Throw Anything, not the Bomb class feature, and as Throw anything is replaced, you don't get that bonus.
Good catch. Mmh... but well, bombs aren't the main feature of such build, and I would even be inclined to say this follows the fluff, since I doubt a symbiont would take the risk of suffering splash damage from a bomb.
You could also take the vivisectionist archetype for a good synergy in fluff and crunch, but this would also cost you the only (free) class feature that goes through DR.
What I also understood just some hours ago is that this archetype allows you to play animals and monsters...
Yeup, you could even play with a dog or wolf's body, and have the Symbiont itself as your character, without being unplayable and obviously sub-par. But I guess this would depend on the creature used as a basis.
|
|
Now I want to play a Symbiont Vivisectionist, having formed around some sort of animal. That seems like it would be pretty fun.
I think I may have to use this for an NPC, if I ever get the chance.
Ahahah, hope you'll have a blast playing it !
Don't hesitate to let me know how it turned out, if you decide to someday use this archetype as a player or a DM. (I'm pretty sure your players would be surprised by something like an elephant with class levels in Host, and the Pounce evolution... "Wtf happened to us ? Why is the Elephant holding a shield ?" :D)