Staff Magus Build


Advice


I've been wondering what one should do when building a Staff Magus in terms of stats. Both the Dervish build and the Strength build have AC covered with either a high Dex score or Medium and Heavy armor proficiency. The Staff Magus on the other hand is only proficient with Light armor. Furthermore, they can't put everything in Dex because then their melee damage becomes a joke. At level 7 they do get Quaterstaff Defense which gives them an AC bonus equal to their staff's enhancement bonus, but that's it.

So what's a Staff Magus to do? Outside of dumping Cha and Wis how do you rectify your need for defense with your stat array?

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

In the beginning levels, you use the shield and mage armor spells to augment your AC until you hit 7th and obtain a shield bonus from a staff with an enhancement bonus (or you can give it one from your arcane pool.) Also at this point you give up the AC race in favor of using spells to keep enemies from striking you, such as Displacement which gives a flat 50 percent chance to negate any strike at you. Also remember at 11th level, your staff defense bonus goes up by 3. Also consider the Dodge and Mobility feats as well.

There are some interesting feats you can use with this such as the staff trip and/or Tripping Strike, Tripping Twirl.


I have not yet played a staff Magus but I have A few idea.

1.Two weapon fighting.
2. Use your arcana to get arcane bond, staff. This will allow you to enchant the bloody thing without going bankrupt.

That's about all the input I have for now

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
mcgreeno wrote:

I have not yet played a staff Magus but I have A few idea.

1.Two weapon fighting.
2. Use your arcana to get arcane bond, staff. This will allow you to enchant the bloody thing without going bankrupt.

That's about all the input I have for now

There is no arcana to get an arcane bonded object. That's what spending a point from the arcane pool is for.

And the LAST thing you want to do is invest in two weapon fighting. The whole point of Quarterstaff mastery is to give you that free hand you need for spell combat... you know the reason you took this class in the first place instead of playing a staff happy monk.


You right on the arcane bond. However finding a way to get that feature would go a long way to helping this option.

As far as the two weapon fighting goes, its an option. I never said was a great option. Over all the staff Magus seems hard pressed to be worth while.


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On the most basic level, get Medium Armor Proficiency and a Mithral Breastplate. Or, ideally, just a Mithral Breastplate and the Armor Expert trait so the lack of proficiency doesn't actually do anything to you.

Beyond that, you are pretty much limited to what your staff can give you. A wand of shield and the Wand Wielder arcana can help you for a bit, but ideally you will find or make a CL 13+ or 17+ staff and get your shield bonus from that.

But, I have to agree with the others. Avoid two-weapon fighting like the plague. It is feat and stat intensive, neither of which a Magus can afford.


Ok, so its really about using spells to pump up your AC until you can get Quarterstaff Defense, then keep up with Shield and Mage Armor. Getting Dodge>>>Mobility doesn't seem worth it for defense, though I might be underestimating it.

Liberty's Edge

I don't know if you care for multiclassing, but I really like doing a two or three level dip into Monk of The Sacred Mountain when it comes to the Staff Magus. You get a natural armor bonus, some bonus feats, Toughness for free, Unarmed Strike, and you can flurry with your quarterstaff. Additionally, since Stunning Fist will do little for you, you could slap Monk of the Four Winds on there too to get some elemental damage in a pinch.

Also, everything Mort (hey Mort!) said about wands/staves is excellent advice. On that subject, taking Craft Staff at higher levels is a very, very good idea.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mort the Cleverly Named wrote:

On the most basic level, get Medium Armor Proficiency and a Mithral Breastplate. Or, ideally, just a Mithral Breastplate and the Armor Expert trait so the lack of proficiency doesn't actually do anything to you.

Even if you get the proficiencies you're still subject to arcane spell failure since the armor types aren't being covered by your magus class features.


I haven't tried it myself, but I have a build in mind that takes a two level dip into the Monk's Weapon Adept archetype. That way you can get Weapon Focus, Perfect Strike, Dodge, Combat Reflexes, and Quarterstaff Master all for free by 3rd level (as well as qualify for and get Weapon Specialization at 3rd level). And the extra +3 to your saves doesn't hurt either. Flurry is a waste at higher levels, but that's not really the point of taking Monk levels.

You can also qualify for Improved Trip pretty early on so when it becomes available, you can take the Tripping Staff feat and combine that with the Maneuver Mastery (trip) arcana. Throw in your Perfect Strike ability and you can trip just about anything with two legs (and use Spellstrike when you do it).


LazarX wrote:
Even if you get the proficiencies you're still subject to arcane spell failure since the armor types aren't being covered by your magus class features.

That is why I said Mithral. It counts, in every way but proficiency, as light armor. Thus, no spell failure. The armor check penalty is also so low that it isn't the end of the world to not bother with it at all.


submit2me wrote:

I haven't tried it myself, but I have a build in mind that takes a two level dip into the Monk's Weapon Adept archetype. That way you can get Weapon Focus, Perfect Strike, Dodge, Combat Reflexes, and Quarterstaff Master all for free by 3rd level (as well as qualify for and get Weapon Specialization at 3rd level). And the extra +3 to your saves doesn't hurt either. Flurry is a waste at higher levels, but that's not really the point of taking Monk levels.

You can also qualify for Improved Trip pretty early on so when it becomes available, you can take the Tripping Staff feat and combine that with the Maneuver Mastery (trip) arcana. Throw in your Perfect Strike ability and you can trip just about anything with two legs (and use Spellstrike when you do it).

Tack on Kirin Style feats via 2 lvls of MoMS Monk and get double your Int bonus to damage.


I posted it a while ago, but if you take UMD and level it up to the possible max, you could get a druid to craft you a wand of Shillelagh, you mainly use staves, yes, you need a common staff, not a problem for the magus, since he/she can further enhance it beyond the +1 the spell grants.

The spell makes a regular quarterstaff +1 and it deals 2d6/2d6 (if using both ends)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mort the Cleverly Named wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Even if you get the proficiencies you're still subject to arcane spell failure since the armor types aren't being covered by your magus class features.
That is why I said Mithral. It counts, in every way but proficiency, as light armor. Thus, no spell failure. The armor check penalty is also so low that it isn't the end of the world to not bother with it at all.

The rules for mithral predate that of the magus. It's still medium armor in form and proficiency/ so the arcane spell failure still applies. Again an arcanist is not going to win the AC race, there are quite a few magus spells that deny or greatly reduce opportunities to be struck at. That's where your focus should like, or combat maneuvers to disable your enemies which generally is the strength of the staff magus who can combine heavily CMB flavored combat with spell combat.


LazarX wrote:
The rules for mithral predate that of the magus. It's still medium armor in form and proficiency/ so the arcane spell failure still applies.

Um... you are wrong. Mithral counts as medium armor only for proficiency -- in every other way it is light armor. Which means that for the purposes of if it is light armor for ASF for a bard or magus it is.

Liberty's Edge

LazarX wrote:
Mort the Cleverly Named wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Even if you get the proficiencies you're still subject to arcane spell failure since the armor types aren't being covered by your magus class features.
That is why I said Mithral. It counts, in every way but proficiency, as light armor. Thus, no spell failure. The armor check penalty is also so low that it isn't the end of the world to not bother with it at all.
The rules for mithral predate that of the magus. It's still medium armor in form and proficiency/ so the arcane spell failure still applies. Again an arcanist is not going to win the AC race, there are quite a few magus spells that deny or greatly reduce opportunities to be struck at. That's where your focus should like, or combat maneuvers to disable your enemies which generally is the strength of the staff magus who can combine heavily CMB flavored combat with spell combat.

No. Mithral breastplate is still medium for proficiency, but for nothing else. Staff Magus ignores spell failure for light armor. Ignoring spell failure has nothing to do with proficiency.

Liberty's Edge

Abraham spalding wrote:
LazarX wrote:
The rules for mithral predate that of the magus. It's still medium armor in form and proficiency/ so the arcane spell failure still applies.
Um... you are wrong. Mithral counts as medium armor only for proficiency -- in every other way it is light armor. Which means that for the purposes of if it is light armor for ASF for a bard or magus it is.

Ninja'd by Abraham!

Shadow Lodge

If you decide to stick with light armor, elven chain and celestail armor are the two best light armors your magus could buy, but they are expensive.

The hexcrafter archetype can be pick up with staff magus and they go really well together for utility.

Magus already have there own version of two weapon fighting, its called spellcombat and it goes great with arcane mark.

Have you checked "walter's guide to the magus" here on the forums? Its agreat read.


Mithral works differently in Pathfinder:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/special-materials#TOC-Mithral

or if you prefer:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html#mithral

So the Mithril Breast Plate is Medium Armour for proficiency and has spell failure of 25% - reduced to 15% for being Mithral. So basically Medium Armours are out for a Staff Magus.

"Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than steel but just as hard.

When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor, and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.) Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."


Lightbulb wrote:

Mithral works differently in Pathfinder:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/special-materials#TOC-Mithral

or if you prefer:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html#mithral

So the Mithril Breast Plate is Medium Armour for proficiency and has spell failure of 25% - reduced to 15% for being Mithral. So basically Medium Armours are out for a Staff Magus.

"Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than steel but just as hard.

When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor, and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.) Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."

I can Bold too! Fun fact, I simply moved the bold tags from your post... perhaps that defeats my statement that I can bold though. Oh well.


Hmm. Thats a fair point. Not sure what the rai is then.

Its not worded as the Duskblade was (ignores spell fail chance). Maybe it does work then.

You would need the proficiency to avoid the armour check penalty.

Still pretty sure the staff magus was not intended to be able to buy its way out of the down sides. But its not clear cut.

There an faq?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
mcgreeno wrote:

I have not yet played a staff Magus but I have A few idea.

1.Two weapon fighting.
2. Use your arcana to get arcane bond, staff. This will allow you to enchant the bloody thing without going bankrupt.

That's about all the input I have for now

There is no arcana to get an arcane bonded object. That's what spending a point from the arcane pool is for.

It may be worthwhile for a human or half-elf staff magus to invest in 13+ Cha and Skill Focus (Knowledge (Arcana*)) at 1st level and then take Eldritch Heritage (Arcane bloodline) at 3rd. The Cha helps with Use Magic Device and the Arcane bloodline power from Eldritch heritage lets you bond your staff (which lets you improve it as if you had Craft Magic Arms and Armor at 7th level and Craft Staff at 13th level). A bonded staff makes getting the full utility out of the Staff Weapon archetype feature (which also improves the utility of Quarterstaff Defense) easier. Quarterstaff Master already lets you wield a staff sized for you in one hand, which lets you use your other hand for casting.

The Wand Wielder arcana is pretty much a must have once you can afford/make a staff with offensive spells (fight with one end, trigger the staff with the other using spell combat).

*- Knowledge (Arcana) is probably the most useful for the bonus on identifying magic auras, effects, and materials; see Table 4-6.

Shadow Lodge

Mithral breastplate is not cheap and it will be just a fill in while you save for the good stuff.

The -1 on attack rolls from mithral breastplate may not seen much but as a magus you will already have the standart -2 from spellcombat, you will be rolling concentration checks every round and will probably be increasing your modifier on them throgh spellcombat making the penalty even bigger. With a mithral breastplate you will incuring an aditional -1 for just a meager 2 more AC.

That fact that you will spend $4.200 gp on it will also make the waiting time for you to be able to afford the best light armors longer. If you consider that Elven Chain (light armor) cost $5150 gp, only 950 gp more AND have the same armor class bonus 6 of mithral breastplate... My staff magus wouldn't be catch dead on it, IMO this is not a good option, its a trap.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Lightbulb wrote:

Hmm. Thats a fair point. Not sure what the rai is then.

Its not worded as the Duskblade was (ignores spell fail chance). Maybe it does work then.

You would need the proficiency to avoid the armour check penalty.

Still pretty sure the staff magus was not intended to be able to buy its way out of the down sides. But its not clear cut.

There an faq?

Mithral breastplates do not impose spell failure on bards or summoners, either. The need to use a feat on Medium Armor Proficiency to avoid the -1 on attack rolls for non-proficiency is probably the biggest drawback after the extra ~4,000 gp for a mithral breastplate instead of a masterwork chain shirt.

The mithral breastplate is only worth it if you are trying to get the maximum AC possible (+6 armor, +5 max Dex). Even then, it's only a marginal improvement over a mithral chain shirt (+4 armor, +6 max Dex) for an extra 3,100 gp.

Shadow Lodge

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Dragonchess Player wrote:
Lightbulb wrote:

Hmm. Thats a fair point. Not sure what the rai is then.

Its not worded as the Duskblade was (ignores spell fail chance). Maybe it does work then.

You would need the proficiency to avoid the armour check penalty.

Still pretty sure the staff magus was not intended to be able to buy its way out of the down sides. But its not clear cut.

There an faq?

Mithral breastplates do not impose spell failure on bards or summoners, either. The need to use a feat on Medium Armor Proficiency to avoid the -1 on attack rolls for non-proficiency is probably the biggest drawback after the extra ~4,000 gp for a mithral breastplate instead of a masterwork chain shirt.

The mithral breastplate is only worth it if you are trying to get the maximum AC possible (+6 armor, +5 max Dex). Even then, it's only a marginal improvement over a mithral chain shirt (+4 armor, +6 max Dex) for an extra 3,100 gp.

That extra feat for the proficiency is a really bad trade off. I wouldn't even buy a mithral chainshirt. Staff magus use the STR build, their DEX is going to be 16 tops on a point buy. Only dervish dancers scimitar magus builds care about high DEX. Start with chain shirt and save money for an elven chain later.


Good point about the elven chain. I usually forget it exists due to it being worse in terms of prices, max dex, check penalty, and weight. But in this case, it is clearly the way to go if you want physical armor (mid-high level, of course). Unless you have the open trait for armor expert, in which case breastplate pulls ahead. Plus, you get the smug satisfaction of wearing an armor you are not proficiency in with no penalty.

Also, second mithral chain shirt not being worth it. If weight, dex, or check penalty is an issue, then Mage Armor is basically a ghost-touch chain shirt, after all. And a wand of it will likely last an incredibly long time, and make any nearby monks incredibly happy.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Merck wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
The mithral breastplate is only worth it if you are trying to get the maximum AC possible (+6 armor, +5 max Dex). Even then, it's only a marginal improvement over a mithral chain shirt (+4 armor, +6 max Dex) for an extra 3,100 gp.
That extra feat for the proficiency is a really bad trade off. I wouldn't even buy a mithral chainshirt. Staff magus use the STR build, their DEX is going to be 16 tops on a point buy. Only dervish dancers scimitar magus builds care about high DEX. Start with chain shirt and save money for an elven chain later.

I wasn't saying a mithral breastplate was worth it in most circumstances, just if you are optimizing for the maximum possible AC.

A mithral chain shirt is cheap at 1,100 gp. Considering that you can afford a +2 mithral chain shirt (5,100 gp) at the same time as elven chain, for the same armor bonus, I would pass on elven chain; a mithral chain shirt also has no armor check penalty vs. a -2 for elven chain. It's a bit easier to improve the elven chain's armor bonus/enhancement after that, but you're looking at only a +1 or +2 to your AC at most.

+6 armor/+4 max Dex vs. +4 armor/+6 max Dex is pretty meaningless considering how easy it is to boost stats (temporarily with 2nd-level spells, "permanently" with magic items). In high-level play, a magus can expect to be wearing at least a belt of physical might (Str, Dex) or be under the effect of cat's grace, so unless you have less than a 14 Dex for some reason you'll probably be hitting an effective Dex of 20+ much of the time.


Piecemail armor could change things too if allowed.


Wow, thanks for all the responses everyone! I think what I'm gonna do is get Chain Mail and use Shield, Mirror Image, Blur, and other spells for defense. Mage Armor isn't actually on the magus' spell list, but a wand could be bought.


Dot

Shadow Lodge

Quote:


I wasn't saying a mithral breastplate was worth it in most circumstances, just if you are optimizing for the maximum possible AC.

I understand, what i aqm saying is that i dont think its worth it in any circumstances. You can do so much more with a feat, grab an extra arcana for the exemple.

On the mithral chainshirt i guess we will have to agree on disagree. It cames down to personal taste. I would rather save the money an go for elven chain with magic enchantments. Also on a point buy character creation staff magus STR, CON, INT would came first than DEX on priority imo. With a 14 in DEX you would still use the elven chain max dex bonus to its fullest with a Cat's Grace spell on. On my magic item budged i would buy a belt of physiscal might with STR and CON insted of DEX.

On a side note: Cat's Grace spell doesnt stack with plus DEX itens like the belt, both gives enchanment bonus.

Quote:


I think what I'm gonna do is get Chain Mail...

Wait, what?

Thas a medium armor, very bad for your staff magus if not made of mithral.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:
LazarX wrote:
The rules for mithral predate that of the magus. It's still medium armor in form and proficiency/ so the arcane spell failure still applies.
Um... you are wrong. Mithral counts as medium armor only for proficiency -- in every other way it is light armor. Which means that for the purposes of if it is light armor for ASF for a bard or magus it is.

A mithral breastplate is STILL medium armor, no matter what it counts for. If you need to be proficient in medium armor to wear it, that means you suffer arcane spell failure to use it.


LazarX wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
LazarX wrote:
The rules for mithral predate that of the magus. It's still medium armor in form and proficiency/ so the arcane spell failure still applies.
Um... you are wrong. Mithral counts as medium armor only for proficiency -- in every other way it is light armor. Which means that for the purposes of if it is light armor for ASF for a bard or magus it is.
A mithral breastplate is STILL medium armor, no matter what it counts for. If you need to be proficient in medium armor to wear it, that means you suffer arcane spell failure to use it.

Um -- no:

Quote:
When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor, and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

Spell failure is an other limitations. The only thing that isn't decreased is proficiency with the armor.


One last question: what are good staves to use? If you were to make one yourself, which spells would you have in it?

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