Brought up in another thread, but probably worth its own.
Alchemists seem like a perfect fit for Lich candidacy, but the prerequisites include casting spells and being caster level 11th. The Alchemist does neither. However, it seems like this caveat was put in before the APG and the arrival of Alchemists.
Should there perhaps be an errata that addresses this? Or should the Alchemist simply take his mummification and eternal youth and shaddap?
No, it should not be changed. An alchemist simply does not have the skill to make himself into a lich. If you want to make a new type of undead, go for it, but they aren't lichs
Isn't the lichification process undefined?
Isn't the lichification process undefined?
I was going by the template listing on the d20pfsrd that includes:
The Lich's Phylactery
An integral part of becoming a lich is the creation of the phylactery in which the character stores his soul. The only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich can rejuvenate after it is killed (see Creating a Lich, below).
Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
Isn't the lichification process undefined?From the Bestiary: "Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation."
The alchemist lich I mentioned has the Craft Wondrous Item feat and is of sufficient level. The thing is, as you said, lich transformation has been left vague. Their phylactery isn't a magical item per se - at least, not one that is crafted in the normal fashion. The process for becoming a lich is intensely personal, and thus seems more like a roleplaying exercise than the simple act of just crafting a ho-hum magical item.
Also I'm pretty sure the alchemical lich's Craft Wondrous Item feat is useless except for making the phylactery. Alchemists can't craft magic items (other than potions, which are a special alchemist class feature), so it's pretty much a wasted feat from lich-forward.
Anyone can craft magic items in pathfinder. You just need the Master Craftsman feat.
James Jacobs says Alchemists do have a caster level. They don't need Master Craftsman to qualify for feats.
Alchemist are considered to be casters, and they can take the magic item creation feats. Why can't they be liches?
PS:They are not casters in the sense that clerics, and wizards are, but they count as casters for many game affects.
edit:ninja'd
Caster level issues aside, I have a hard time seeing an Alchemist thinking in terms of transferring ones soul to a phylactery as a means of life extention. It just doesn't seem alchemically enough.
An alchemic mummy, altering ones flesh (green star adept), or brain transfer to a flesh golem seems a more likely plan for an Alchemist.
Alchemist are considered to be casters, and they can take the magic item creation feats. Why can't they be liches?
PS:They are not casters in the sense that clerics, and wizards are, but they count as casters for many game affects.
edit:ninja'd
It happens man. (assuming maleness and humanness here, apologies if errant.)
In the same thread James mentions that alchemists were originally called spell casters, but they changed the wording because it was awkward. It could be argued there is probable cause that RAI is that they could become Liches. Especially since there are published examples.
Caster level issues aside, I have a hard time seeing an Alchemist thinking in terms of transferring ones soul to a phylactery as a means of life extention. It just doesn't seem alchemically enough.
An alchemic mummy, altering ones flesh (green star adept), or brain transfer to a flesh golem seems a more likely plan for an Alchemist.
While becoming mummies or golems may be more common for an alchemist. In every group you have a weird guy who has a really different way of thinking. So he may see becoming a lich as a great way of gaining longer life. Just because it doesn't really fit the norm doesn't mean it's won't happen.
Looking over the small blurb at the beginning of the Alchemist class, I would say that they are a blend of mysticism and science (much as historical Alchemists). So, from a fluff perspective, I could see an Alchemist working toward Lichdom. Though it would be pretty cool to see an Alchemical Undead Archetype with some sort of Alchemical Lich Capstone.
Alchemist are considered to be casters, and they can take the magic item creation feats. Why can't they be liches?
PS:They are not casters in the sense that clerics, and wizards are, but they count as casters for many game affects.
edit:ninja'd
It happens man. (assuming maleness and humanness here, apologies if errant.)
In the same thread James mentions that alchemists were originally called spell casters, but they changed the wording because it was awkward. It could be argued there is probable cause that RAI is that they could become Liches. Especially since there are published examples.
Being ninja'd is not a big thing around here. The "ninja" normally gets kudos for being the first with the right answer.
i can see a alchemist being a lich like Mr. House (in Fallout New Vegas) using clones and golems but it is a cool idea
Caster level issues aside, I have a hard time seeing an Alchemist thinking in terms of transferring ones soul to a phylactery as a means of life extention. It just doesn't seem alchemically enough.
An alchemic mummy, altering ones flesh (green star adept), or brain transfer to a flesh golem seems a more likely plan for an Alchemist.
You seem to be ignoring the way that the clone master's power works, or Doppelgänger Simulacrum, or the fact that Magic Jar is on the Alchemist Formula list.
You know you can get Lich like with discoveries if that what your going for
Alcheimcal Zombie
Doppelganger Simulacrum
Elixr of Life
Lingering Spirit
Mummification
Nauseating Flesh
Plague Bomb
Spontaneous Healing
You know you can get Lich like with discoveries if that what your going for
Alcheimcal Zombie
Doppelganger Simulacrum
Elixr of Life
Lingering Spirit
Mummification
Nauseating Flesh
Plague Bomb
Spontaneous Healing
Joeyfixit is worried to death about Feeblemind. He doesn't want lich-like abilities, he wants immunity to Feeblemind.
You know you can get Lich like with discoveries if that what your going for
Alcheimcal Zombie
Doppelganger Simulacrum
Elixr of Life
Lingering Spirit
Mummification
Nauseating Flesh
Plague Bomb
Spontaneous HealingJoeyfixit is worried to death about Feeblemind. He doesn't want lich-like abilities, he wants immunity to Feeblemind.
Well then 2 levels of Master Chymist gets you Dual Mind +2 will saves reroll failed save
Improved Iron Will - reroll will save
Parasitic Twin - Reroll failed save
Greater Cognatogen - +4 Wisdom = +2will
Spell resistance - 12+CL
If you fail all of that you were meant to be feeble minded :P
Hah One more to the above
Delayed comsumption + Heroic Fortune
Trigger - Target of Feeblemind
Result get a free temp hero point, just in time to make a saving throw.
+8 to Will save :)
You know you can get Lich like with discoveries if that what your going for
Alcheimcal Zombie
Doppelganger Simulacrum
Elixr of Life
Lingering Spirit
Mummification
Nauseating Flesh
Plague Bomb
Spontaneous HealingJoeyfixit is worried to death about Feeblemind. He doesn't want lich-like abilities, he wants immunity to Feeblemind.
Wattya, chasin' me around the interwebs? Can't a man have an innocent little discussion about making his Alchemist into a Lich without somebody making it seem all dirty and self-absorbed?
You know you can get Lich like with discoveries if that what your going for
Alcheimcal Zombie
Doppelganger Simulacrum
Elixr of Life
Lingering Spirit
Mummification
Nauseating Flesh
Plague Bomb
Spontaneous HealingJoeyfixit is worried to death about Feeblemind. He doesn't want lich-like abilities, he wants immunity to Feeblemind.
Well then 2 levels of Master Chymist gets you Dual Mind +2 will saves reroll failed save
Improved Iron Will - reroll will save
Parasitic Twin - Reroll failed save
Greater Cognatogen - +4 Wisdom = +2will
Spell resistance - 12+CL
If you fail all of that you were meant to be feeble minded :P
Master Chymist - thought about it, but no. I've played this character for two and a half sessions and have yet to use mutagen. That's not to say that I won't use it, but I don't think I have that much use for a mutagenic form at-will and I'm already enough of a drama queen without creating MPD personas for my character (in my case, it'd be Lawful Good, too.) I don't think I can give up the discoveries, either.
Improved Iron Will - don't have Iron Will yet, but it's on my checklist.
Greater Cog - Don't have Cognatogen yet, and I'm not sure I want it. My strength is a 7 (kobolds deal with a -4 racial) , so I don't think I can afford to nerf strength more before DM says I should collapse under the weight of my haversack. Anyway, it's 2 discoveries away.
Spell Resistance - Beautiful. I may take this when I hit level 13. I'm currently 11, close to 12.
Delayed Consumption - Interesting. But see above.
Thanks for pointing out Spell Resistance, though. I didn't know it existed, never having gotten a character that high.