Terrain Mastery and Master of all Lands


Rules Questions


So, if I spent say, 3 rogue talents on the terrain mastery rogue talent, and then went horizon walker until level 10 and got the capstone, wouldn't you say I would gain a +8 terrain bonus to the relevant abilities in any terrain?

Would you allow it at your table?

I've provided the appropriate feat and ability in this here spoiler tag.

Spoiler:
Master of All Lands (Su): At 10th level, the horizon walker becomes familiar with and comfortable in all possible terrains. His terrain bonus in all favored terrains increases by +2, and he treats all other terrains as if they were favored terrains (+2 bonus). If a naturally occurring condition of temperature or weather requires a check or saving throw, he automatically succeeds. All allies within 60 feet of him gain a +2 bonus on these checks and saves; if the horizon walker is in a mastered terrain, this bonus increases to +4.

Terrain Mastery (Ex): A rogue with this talent gains a favored terrain as the ranger ability of the same name, though the favored terrain ability does not increase with her level as the ranger's ability does. A rogue can take this ability multiple times, each time applying it to a new terrain, and granting all other favored terrains a +2 increase to the favored terrain bonus.


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Fine... Here is my build, show me what's wrong with it

Greatest Sailor Ever (judged by optimization toward initiative and profession sailing)

Spoiler:

12
18 +5 level +5 inherent +6 belt =34
12
12
15 +5 inherent +6 belt = 26
12

at level 20, gets +59 to profession: sailing driving checks
+20ranks+3class+10heart of fields+6 skill focus+12 rogue talents+8 wis
+40 to all favored terrain bonuses
RT Rogue levels 2,4,6,8=+4
Feats (extra RT) Levels 5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19=+8
Horizon walker 7 levels favored terrain, 1 (gives a +4 bonus for mastered lands) Master of all terrains=+9 (effectively)
total favored terrain bonuses for water 21 (+42)
Terrain bonus in every other land at least 13


initiative +60 at sea (+44 anywhere else)
+42 favored terrain+12 dex+4improved init+2trait=+60

Perception +73 at sea
+42 favored terrain +8wis+20ranks+3class=+73 (57)

Stealth +81 at sea
+42 favored terrain +12dex +20 ranks+3 class=+75 (61)

Swim speed of 20 (includes breathing water)
can cast Charm Person and dimension door 11 times per day as a spell like ability

Also a possibility is to buy a bunch of boots of friendly terrain that can give an additional +2 to one terrain. Switch them out as you travel.

I don't think I could make him much better at driving a boat. Maybe crank the wisdom a bit higher, I could. I dumped the rest into skyrocketing his initiative modifier, and the rest of the fun with the favored terrains happened, and it just seemed like a good time. I didn't bother fleshing out his gear or much of anything else, I just wanted to see how ridiculous it could get.

If I were playing him for real, I would get the dimensional dervish feats, and maybe only go with a +20 modifier to all terrains instead of 26.

If I focused this character toward stealth, I could see getting a stealth modifier up to +100 (I would go urban terrain for this one) if my math is right.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Be sure the types of bonuses to your skills are of a different type, so that they actually stack.


First: LOL to all those Wizards that think they're going first.
Second: This seems legit to me, though I am a noob.
When get get an advanced talent take Hide in Plain Sight for your sea faring enjoyment. You'll basically be a ghost pirate at that point.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Be sure the types of bonuses to your skills are of a different type, so that they actually stack.

All these bonuses are untyped as best as I can tell, so they should all stack.

Yeah Alwaysafk, the advanced talent in this build could be switched to hide in plain sight, and you would be basically be getting improved invisibility permanently that was immune to blind sight.


Actually the scariest thing in the ocean would be this guy in a canoe. Those use the survival skill for their driving checks, so we are looking at +42 terrain bonus, +8 wis, +20 ranks, +3 class, +12 RT for a +85 to his driving check.

That's pretty awesome.


Oterisk wrote:

Actually the scariest thing in the ocean would be this guy in a canoe. Those use the survival skill for their driving checks, so we are looking at +42 terrain bonus, +8 wis, +20 ranks, +3 class, +12 RT for a +85 to his driving check.

That's pretty awesome.

That's funny.

Hiawatha Vortex Racer.
I've looked it through, I think all that math is on. Will he have the ability to fight? His BAB isn't bad but not much else going on. I'd let it at the table but would you WANT to play it?

I'd also take Hide in Plain Sight; I think that would make the sneak attack much more likely, especially at range.

Scarab Sages

Don't forget that he adds his Favored Terrain modifier as a Favored Enemy bonus when fighting enemies in his Mastered Terrains. That's +26 or +42 to attack and damage rolls in your mastered ones.

I'm officially calling that borked XD. I'd like to see the Favored Terrain thing stay the same, but either cap it at +8, or lower the bonus given by rogue favored terrain to +1, but it's really only for this kind of insane character.


My assumption is that terrain mastery works exactly like the ranger favored terrain and only adds +2 to a new terrain and +2 to another. I know it currently doesn't read that way, but I think it is safe to say that will be changed on second printing or sooner.

And Davor is right, terrain dominance is what makes this crazy. You will have 3 terrains that your bonus counts as favored enemy bonuses.


Actually, its not fighting enemies in his native terrain. I think its fighting enemies NATIVe to his terrain... so that poor wizard on land who thinks hes clever summoning a dolphin....

Lantern Lodge

I made a post about this and the unattended consequences about Horizon Walker PRC (from 3.5 dnd)

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz4tcr?Ranger-favored-terrain-bonus-and-extra-fav ored#4

It is a ridiculous oversight. I am the biggest munchkin of our group on numbers concepts, but even I would never do this. I can't believe I had a guy do this to me in a gestalt 20th lvl game. That's the biggest reason I stopped running that game.

me wrote:

so for Three terrains he has dominance in , all native creatures to that domain he gets +24 to

He gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks against creatures of his selected type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against them.


To be honest? if it was that ridiculous you would see lots of posts about AM Horizonwalker or Rage Lance Horzon walker, or my favoritte Gms asking people to check if the Horizon Points had been spent properly on the summoners Summoned Horizon walker.

But you dont see /any/ of this in fact when i thought of this PRC some months ago I only got a few responses when i realized Favoured Terrain URBAN would allow you to massacre most of the civilized creatures in the game.

but you dont see any of this, which tells me that ts too niche of a prospect for players to properly abuse even if its just in a theoretical thought experiment.

Basically if it was that bad the PRC would get talked about constantly as a goto for people.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mojorat wrote:

To be honest? if it was that ridiculous you would see lots of posts about AM Horizonwalker or Rage Lance Horzon walker, or my favoritte Gms asking people to check if the Horizon Points had been spent properly on the summoners Summoned Horizon walker.

But you dont see /any/ of this in fact when i thought of this PRC some months ago I only got a few responses when i realized Favoured Terrain URBAN would allow you to massacre most of the civilized creatures in the game.

but you dont see any of this, which tells me that ts too niche of a prospect for players to properly abuse even if its just in a theoretical thought experiment.

Basically if it was that bad the PRC would get talked about constantly as a goto for people.

This.

Essentially, the problem with the character is that you exchange being very good in some terrains with being VERY BAD in others. Now, it's true that you could easily stack the Terrain Mastery trick a couple times, but you only get 3 Dominances with the HW, and even then, you're looking at being a slightly marginal character until you get to at least level 8.

If you know you will only be in 2-3 terrains the whole campaign, go for it. You can have your ridiculous Urban Slaying Rogue if you want to. It might make up for all the things you lost out on by not actually playing a Ranger, right up until said Ranger hits level 10 and gets Instant Enemy.


It's very strong. For hitting and doing damage.

The strongest options in Pathfinder are not based around hitting and doing damage.

That's basically all there is to it.

That and the paizo fan community's distaste for PrCs (who can blame them? 95% of them suck ass, I'd tune them out, too) causing it to be overlooked by most of those who are out for the biggest numbers.


Actually, i dont think 'very bad' is the right way to Explain it, i mean 2 levels of rogue, 4 levels of Ranger, maybe use twohanded weapon. you use 3 feats to support the idea and can otherwise hit hard with your chosen weapon. and when your actually in an area your designed for you get to be god for a bit..

Honestly Im wondering if Horzion walker would be good for Skull and shackles though where you can guess at least one Terrain type :P


I'd consider it cripplingly overspecialized, but a poster here pointed out that you can use the Instant Enemy spell (I'd just get a wand) to make an enemy count as one of your favored enemies for all purposes...which would include native terrain type. It's a little expensive, but allows you to basically demolish any major enemy at will.


It's not crippling at all. You will be amazing for perception, stealth and init in all terrains. You should go first 99% of the time meaning you have time to get into position and use a wand (terrain bond, 4th level ranger) to make wherever you are your favorite terrain. You will be 2nd to 3rd dmg tier depending on build against a creature that isn't from one of the 3 terrains you have dominance in and 1st tier against ones from the 3 you do. If you can qualify for Nature Warden as well, you become near impossible to hit after 2 levels due to insight bonus to AC equal to half your terrain bonus.

For skulls and shackles this guy would be insane. Having not read the path, I'm guessing water and underground terrains would cover 75% of the terrain and creature types you find.

Contributor

The build is pretty awesome, but ultimately it is a skill-focused build. In a game based around combat, its somewhat difficult for a skill-focused build to be truly insane.

That said, you WOULD qualify for the Dimensional Agility feat chain if you really wanted it ....

That could be a LOT of fun.


Mine goes out of his way to kill everything that lives in the mountains.

AM HORIZON WALKER


Wow its been almost two years since i made that joke :P i actually considered horizon walker for our skull&shackles game but went with gunslinger instead.

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