Than why is it the Will save attribute?
Pathfinder next edition needs to clear this up. Either Charisma is force of will, and will saves need to be Charisma based, or Wisdom is force of will, and Sorcerers need to be Wisdom based.
On that subject, Paladins should be Charisma casters. It would fit them perfectly.
Wisdom describes a character's willpower, common sense, awareness, and intuition. The problem is Kyrt-rider doesn't seem to know what the stats represent. I think he simply forgot.
I can actually see why they would want Sorcerer's to be based on charisma, if they are based on wisdom, they will never fail a will save. Kind of like the paladin doesn't fail saves most of the time, but the paladin is supposed to make saves.
Paladins have been cha-based for the entirety of Pathfinder, I'm not entirely sure where you got that they weren't.
If it's an issue, lower their Will save progression. Charisma casting for Sorcerers just doesn't make intuitive sense to me. Personality should have nothing to do with using innate magical powers.
I know Pali's are Cha based. I just got confused with 3.5 for a moment when posting. I realized my mistake right after.
Cha represents your ability to exert your will on the world around you, not your ability to resist others doing the sae to you. Wis represents your ability to sense other people's will (forex figuring out which thoughts are yours and which thoughts are coming from someone else perhaps throughmagic).
If that were the case, shouldn't Clerics be casting with Charisma?
Why >.<Give Monks REAL full BABPlease don't.
With the addition of APG and CMB monks seem to be legit now. At least I don't think I have to coddle them anymore.
Than why is it the Will save attribute?
Pathfinder next edition needs to clear this up. Either Charisma is force of will, and will saves need to be Charisma based, or Wisdom is force of will, and Sorcerers need to be Wisdom based.
On that subject, Paladins should be Charisma casters. It would fit them perfectly.
Wisdom describes a character's willpower, common sense, awareness, and intuition. The problem is Kyrt-rider doesn't seem to know what the stats represent. I think he simply forgot.
I can actually see why they would want Sorcerer's to be based on charisma, if they are based on wisdom, they will never fail a will save. Kind of like the paladin doesn't fail saves most of the time, but the paladin is supposed to make saves.
Paladins have been cha-based for the entirety of Pathfinder, I'm not entirely sure where you got that they weren't.
If it's an issue, lower their Will save progression. Charisma casting for Sorcerers just doesn't make intuitive sense to me. Personality should have nothing to do with using innate magical powers.
I know Pali's are Cha based. I just got confused with 3.5 for a moment when posting. I realized my mistake right after.
Scratch that. If the Cleric can use Wisdom as a casting stat and have a high will save progression, so can a Sorcerer.
Cha represents your ability to exert your will on the world around you, not your ability to resist others doing the sae to you. Wis represents your ability to sense other people's will (forex figuring out which thoughts are yours and which thoughts are coming from someone else perhaps throughmagic).If that were the case, shouldn't Clerics be casting with Charisma?
Oddly, no, their minds have to be strong enough to handle the gifts their god hands them.
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For some reason I was thinking they casted with Wisdom like Clerics. I have no idea why.PF changed it. They used to be Wis based. Personally, I liked this better, but thats personal opinion.No, the 3.5 Paladin was a ball of snots, one of the worst classes, because, for some reason, they needed basically every stat. Strength to hit, Dex to not get hit, go first, and cover up his lousy reflex-save, Con so they wouldn't die, Int because they didn't get any skills, wisdom so they could cast spells, and charisma so they could use their class features.
Now I remember why the Sorcerer runs on Cha: charisma is the stat through which people make others do things, in the sorcerer's case, they are making the laws of physics sit down and shut up.
I agree that 3E paladins where bad, but not because they needed a 14 Wis by 14th level for a fairly minor class ability. I just think that all divine casters are much better reresented by Wis, if not most casters in general.
Again, Cha is not just personality - which is why it powers UMD.Than why is it the Will save attribute?
Pathfinder next edition needs to clear this up. Either Charisma is force of will, and will saves need to be Charisma based, or Wisdom is force of will, and Sorcerers need to be Wisdom based.
On that subject, Paladins should be Charisma casters. It would fit them perfectly.
Wisdom describes a character's willpower, common sense, awareness, and intuition. The problem is Kyrt-rider doesn't seem to know what the stats represent. I think he simply forgot.
I can actually see why they would want Sorcerer's to be based on charisma, if they are based on wisdom, they will never fail a will save. Kind of like the paladin doesn't fail saves most of the time, but the paladin is supposed to make saves.
Paladins have been cha-based for the entirety of Pathfinder, I'm not entirely sure where you got that they weren't.
If it's an issue, lower their Will save progression. Charisma casting for Sorcerers just doesn't make intuitive sense to me. Personality should have nothing to do with using innate magical powers.
I know Pali's are Cha based. I just got confused with 3.5 for a moment when posting. I realized my mistake right after.
I thought that was because force of personality was involved in pretending to be a type of spellcaster that you aren't.
I thought that was because force of personality was involved in pretending to be a type of spellcaster that you aren't.
It also works for making an item believe you even have magic, or are a certain alignment, or whatever else you can think of.
Oddly, no, their minds have to be strong enough to handle the gifts their god hands them.Cha represents your ability to exert your will on the world around you, not your ability to resist others doing the sae to you. Wis represents your ability to sense other people's will (forex figuring out which thoughts are yours and which thoughts are coming from someone else perhaps throughmagic).If that were the case, shouldn't Clerics be casting with Charisma?
And Sorcerers don't need a strong will to handle innate gifts just as powerful?
I thought that was because force of personality was involved in pretending to be a type of spellcaster that you aren't.It also works for making an item believe you even have magic, or are a certain alignment, or whatever else you can think of.
All of that seems a force of personality thing to me.
And Sorcerers don't need a strong will to handle innate gifts just as powerful?
Not really, there's a difference between handling your own awesome abilities, and handling a sudden infusion of awesome given to you by an outside source. Rarely, in fiction or real life, does a person go nuts because of their own abilities, more often they go nuts from some external source of extraordinary power giving them mojo.
I can't think of anything that seems broken. My biggest request would be having redoing the cleric a little. In 4E I loved the premise that a cleric would heal the party after doing damage. It made it more fun to play a class that in my groups always has a had time to find someone who wants to fill the role.
Other thoughts would be fewer save vs. die spells at higher levels to make it easier to play at those levels.
Dave
I think most of the spellcasting classes could do with a little less save-or-suck spells, giving clerics attack spells that also heal might be interesting.
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Cha represents your ability to exert your will on the world around you, not your ability to resist others doing the sae to you. Wis represents your ability to sense other people's will (forex figuring out which thoughts are yours and which thoughts are coming from someone else perhaps throughmagic).If that were the case, shouldn't Clerics be casting with Charisma?
Clerics aren't exerting will, they are begging.
The gods grant them spell, not give them. Subtle but important difference.
Sorcerers and Bards are so awesome the can call forth powers directly from the arcane forces. Clerics can use charisma to channel forces through them, but they use their will (connection to the world) to contact their gods to get spells granted to them.
Wizards and Magus are so smart, they can figure out how to cast spells.
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Most of the classes are pretty good, there are some exceptions. Monks should simply be given what they basically have: a Full BAB, TWF, and double slice with unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
Rogues should be given actual precision, as well as precision-based damage, and I think skills need a few more neat tricks, akin to the skill tricks of 3.5. I also think the rogue should be able to pick a second good save. The rogue talents are a little weak, in general, and some of them don't make much sense.
Fighters should have good will saves and a few more snazzy moves based on what weapon they picked.
I would like to see a higher-level version of Prestidigitation. I love that spell.
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Scratch that. If the Cleric can use Wisdom as a casting stat and have a high will save progression, so can a Sorcerer.
The issue is the flavor and the synergy.
Sorcerers aren't wise by flavor, Clerics are. Sorcerers draw forth magic without having to study due to being that cool.
Second, if you allow an arcane class to have the same casting stat as a divine class, you break the Mystic Theurge and basically beg for a one level monk dip.
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Clerics aren't exerting will, they are begging.The gods grant them spell, not give them. Subtle but important difference.
Sorcerers and Bards are so awesome the can call forth powers directly from the arcane forces. Clerics can use charisma to channel forces through them, but they use their will (connection to the world) to contact their gods to get spells granted to them.
Wizards and Magus are so smart, they can figure out how to cast spells.
I disagree. Clerics (and Druids) utilize their deeper and truer understanding of the universe, and their place with in it to reach out and take their magic, to impose miracles. They better understand their limits, have a much more developed sense of right/wrong, and are more perceptive of the forces they draw up that others can't sense, and are morally better prepaired for the repurcussions. They are polite and self-aware enough to "ask", rather than arrogant to try to steal powers from the other side.
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Use a fighter with guns! I do find it odd that the gunslinger has too many "moving parts", but then you go on to praise the magus and the Inquisitor, the two most complicated martial classes. :-$
Anyways, my main hope is that ability score checks, and any other check where the die matters more for levels 1 to 18, are replaced with 3d6.
The Inquisitor and the Magus are complicated by flavor. They are both mixed use classes, and so you would expect them to have a lot of moving parts. They are, by nature, complicated.
Gunslingers are non-casters who have guns. That is not a complicated concept.
We need to un-nerf high-level save-or-die to original 3rd edition levels, and impose something like the resurrection survival roll from even earlier editions. If you're stupid enough to get in lots of fights at high levels, you should wind up permanently dead pretty quick. A return to vulnerability at high levels is the check that stops 20th-level characters from simply stomping over everything. High-level characters should be like nuclear arsenals; you don't use them unless ot's death if you don't, because it's inherently dangerous. Instead, 6th-to-12th-level characters do the major heroing.
Scratch that. If the Cleric can use Wisdom as a casting stat and have a high will save progression, so can a Sorcerer.The issue is the flavor and the synergy.
Sorcerers aren't wise by flavor, Clerics are. Sorcerers draw forth magic without having to study due to being that cool.
Second, if you allow an arcane class to have the same casting stat as a divine class, you break the Mystic Theurge and basically beg for a one level monk dip.
New rule. Monks can only add Wisdom to stuff as per their class features up to their class level. Level dip issue fixed.
I never liked the Mystic Theruge, anyway.
As for flavor, let me think on it. I may be able to think up a solution.
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3. Continue cleaning up the spell list, removing SoD spells and clarifying limitations of ambiguous spells.If I want 4e I'll play it ... Safe or Suck spells need to become none go to choices, but removing them removes the legacy of D&D.
What we need is some mechanics which makes something like dominate simply completely ineffective on the first round in a fight on a BBEG, but a good option against mooks and perhaps even against the BBEG once he is softened up a bit.
Certainly you see the problem here. . .
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3. Continue cleaning up the spell list, removing SoD spells and clarifying limitations of ambiguous spells.If I want 4e I'll play it ... Safe or Suck spells need to become none go to choices, but removing them removes the legacy of D&D.
What we need is some mechanics which makes something like dominate simply completely ineffective on the first round in a fight on a BBEG, but a good option against mooks and perhaps even against the BBEG once he is softened up a bit.
I would define this as removing SoD spells. The circle of death only working on mooks below your level is a good example.
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Scratch that. If the Cleric can use Wisdom as a casting stat and have a high will save progression, so can a Sorcerer.The issue is the flavor and the synergy.
Sorcerers aren't wise by flavor, Clerics are. Sorcerers draw forth magic without having to study due to being that cool.
Second, if you allow an arcane class to have the same casting stat as a divine class, you break the Mystic Theurge and basically beg for a one level monk dip.
New rule. Monks can only add Wisdom to stuff as per their class features up to their class level. Level dip issue fixed.
I never liked the Mystic Theruge, anyway.
As for flavor, let me think on it. I may be able to think up a solution.
Monk won't work, they need the full Wisdom from jump.
Wisdom is your understanding of the world around you. Your Will save is against illusions and people trying to take over your mind. You being grounded in reality helps on this.
Charisma is how you make things do things, including the arcane forces of the universe.
A monk and a cleric have high wisdom because their power is derived from prayer and meditation. The monk is so in tune with the world he can dodge attacks.
Sorcerers and Bards are just able to make things happen, regardless.
Scratch that. If the Cleric can use Wisdom as a casting stat and have a high will save progression, so can a Sorcerer.The issue is the flavor and the synergy.
Sorcerers aren't wise by flavor, Clerics are. Sorcerers draw forth magic without having to study due to being that cool.
Second, if you allow an arcane class to have the same casting stat as a divine class, you break the Mystic Theurge and basically beg for a one level monk dip.
New rule. Monks can only add Wisdom to stuff as per their class features up to their class level. Level dip issue fixed.
I never liked the Mystic Theruge, anyway.
As for flavor, let me think on it. I may be able to think up a solution.
Monk won't work, they need the full Wisdom from jump.
Wisdom is your understanding of the world around you. Your Will save is against illusions and people trying to take over your mind. You being grounded in reality helps on this.
Charisma is how you make things do things, including the arcane forces of the universe.
A monk and a cleric have high wisdom because their power is derived from prayer and meditation. The monk is so in tune with the world he can dodge attacks.
Sorcerers and Bards are just able to make things happen, regardless.
I just don't buy that, because if it were true Witches and Wizards would need Charisma, too.
A Monk would still get it. They just need to wait a few levels.
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I just don't buy that, because if it were true Witches and Wizards would need Charisma, too.A Monk would still get it. They just need to wait a few levels.
Wizards and Magus study the somatic motions and words so well they are able to cast the spells. Unlike Bruce Campbell, they say the words and do the thing and spells happen.
I personally think eschew materials should have a charisma minimum, but that is just me.
And I agree with you on Witches. It makes little flavor sense for them to be intelligence casters.
As to monk, you now have a max +1 armor bonus at 1st level.
Good luck with that.
Btw Vinland it may not be your standard issue Sorcerer but the Emperyal(sp?) bloodline allows your Sorcerer to cast using his wisdom.
@Ciertose when you talk about rogues using CHA for Atk/Dam it makes me picture Inyago Montoya.