Improving Custom Items that share jobs with existing items

[Koshimo]

As the title says I am wondering if there are rules for improving things like class items that gives standard bonuses in addition to other things.

For example the Cape of Daring Deeds gives a +2 resistance bonus to saves, modifies Derring Do, and raises the resistance bonus to +4 when using charmed life, and the price is 9000

So first of are there rules to modify this item to bring the resistance bonus to a base of +5, if so how much, and how would that interact with the extra +2 granted when using charmed life, and would the fact that it possibly goes to a +7 resistance bonus have other price implications?

[Nefreet]

Creating custom magic items is more an art than a science, and involves sitting down with your GM and comparing the finished item to other similar items in print.

There are no hard set rules for upgrading named items. Just lots of inference from how those items are already priced.

[Koshimo]

Nefreet wrote:

Creating custom magic items is more an art than a science, and involves sitting down with your GM and comparing the finished item to other similar items in print.

There are no hard set rules for upgrading named items. Just lots of inference from how those items are already priced.

thanks

[White Templar]

While a truly original magic item's pricing is equal parts art and science, certain basic things can be easy to extrapolate from existing rules.

Pathfinder Core Rulebook Page 553: Adding New Abilities wrote:

The cost to add additional abilities to an item is the same as if the item was not magical, less the value of the original item. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 longsword.

So, a Greater Cape of Daring Deeds that grants a +3 resistance bonus to saves that increases to a +5 for one round when using the Charmed Life class feature should cost 14,000 GP (9,000 base item + the difference between a +3 Cloak of Resistance and a +2 Cloak of Resistance [9,000-4,000])

Increasing it up to a +5 resistance cloak may bring concern to some, but there is a clear precedent - Bane weaponry. These also give increases above the normal cap in special circumstances. I would try pricing a +5 Cape of Daring Deeds at 30,000 (9,000+[25,000-4,000]).

Often I see the first reaction to any "How do I price this item?" threads is the response, "No one can ever truly know!" This is not a helpful response. Try saying, "A good starting point would be X, then see if that is too low or too high." Nothing against Nefreet, he is hardly the first to take a cautious approach, which I'm sure serves him well as a Pathfinder Society GM.

[Dave Justus]

White Templar wrote:

Often I see the first reaction to any "How do I price this item?" threads is the response, "No one can ever truly know!"

I think that is a response to this being in the rules forum. In advice or discussion it would be less likely (although still a useful disclaimer) but when we are talking rules, the #1 rule with any custom magic item the GM gets the final call.

[Nefreet]

Indeed.

I didn't say, "No one can ever know", I said it involves sitting down with your GM and hammering out the details.

I've made and customed my fair share of unique magic items. It used to be a schtick in my campaigns that each character started with an heirloom item that gave them reason to go adventuring.

But say you wanted to make a ring that allowed you to turn Invisible at will, at Caster Level 3. When you actually price out that item, it comes up less than the Ring of Invisibility, that does the same thing.

Are there rules in place for creating this item? Sure. Would I as a GM let a player buy one, without first going it over with me? Probably not.

That being said, the most comprehensive mathematical formula I've ever seen for Pathfinder magic items was posted in this thread, if you'd like to check it out.

[Koshimo]

Dave Justus wrote:

White Templar wrote:

Often I see the first reaction to any "How do I price this item?" threads is the response, "No one can ever truly know!"

I think that is a response to this being in the rules forum. In advice or discussion it would be less likely (although still a useful disclaimer) but when we are talking rules, the #1 rule with any custom magic item the GM gets the final call.

Using Bane as an equivalent type of bonus/rule extension (extra enhancement bonus over the normal limit under certain circumstances)

I think you can price the cape at 36,000 as if it were a +6 bonus
or rule that a cloak of resistance cant be more than a +5 item so you can only make it a +4 and then the +1 of "when using charmed life"

i think my DM would be ok with either idea

[The Golux]

If it's a +2 bonus item with special abilities and you want to raise it to a +5 bonus item with the same special abilities, the increase in price should be (price of a +5 item)-(price of a +2 item). In the case of the Cape of Daring Deeds, the final price would be (25,000-4,000)+9,000 = 30,000, or a price increase of 21,000 over the base Cape. And yes, it will raise the resistance bonus to +7 for one round every time the swashbuckler uses Charmed Life.

...I suppose it could be increased a little more if you interpret the original item as being priced as a +3, in which case it could be a total of 36,000 or an increase of 27,000.

Honestly, I'm a big fan of the items that are ability belt or ability headband or resistance cloak plus a neat ability and strongly favor allowing them to be upgraded.

[Koshimo]

Honestly, I'm a big fan of the items that are ability belt or ability headband or resistance cloak plus a neat ability and strongly favor allowing them to be upgraded.

(this is supposed to be quoted don't know what i did that its not showing up like that)

completely agree with that part, because every player almost has a 5 item tax (physical, mental, resistance, nat armor, deflection)

so putting a small little class specific ability on those items adds flavor and makes people less redundant