I want more


Beginner Box


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I'm a Pathfinder fan. I have all of the hard cover books, several adventure paths, etc. But THIS is the game that I want. A more focused, easy-to-reference, faster and leaner version of PF. The way monsters are presented is far more appealing to me than the existing Bestiaries. The truncated spell descriptions. The more focused choices. Better all around for me.

I really hope Paizo reconsiders their position not to develop this further. I can't speak for others, but an Intermediate Box detailing levels 6-10 and adding four more classes would be an instant sale for me. Moreover, it wouldn't stop me from purchasing the "advanced" PF books either. The fact that this set is selling well to established PF players would indicate to me that there is a market for more. I'm not advocating a massive line, but a few more products would be sweet.

If not, I hope a 3rd party takes it up.


William Edmunds wrote:

I'm a Pathfinder fan. I have all of the hard cover books, several adventure paths, etc. But THIS is the game that I want. A more focused, easy-to-reference, faster and leaner version of PF. The way monsters are presented is far more appealing to me than the existing Bestiaries. The truncated spell descriptions. The more focused choices. Better all around for me.

I really hope Paizo reconsiders their position not to develop this further. I can't speak for others, but an Intermediate Box detailing levels 6-10 and adding four more classes would be an instant sale for me. Moreover, it wouldn't stop me from purchasing the "advanced" PF books either. The fact that this set is selling well to established PF players would indicate to me that there is a market for more. I'm not advocating a massive line, but a few more products would be sweet.

If not, I hope a 3rd party takes it up.

I am pretty sure, you are not alone. Though only anecdotal, a poll of 100 people over at RPG.net has the following results:

1. 75% of those interested in the Pathfinder Beginner Box want to see it expanded.

2. A majority of Pathfinder fans want to see the Pathfinder Beginner Box expanded.

3. If Pathfinder Beginner Box were expanded then this would increase Paizo's customer base for those products by about 80%.

I think everyone is well aware of the line splitting issues that Paizo are concerned about, but the PFBB doesn't do that as it simply edits down the full system. As such, Paizo have already solved the hard part of the problem. Its a shame that they don't exploit this more to get the full benefit of what they have achieved.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Guys, guys, the box isn't even officially out, yet. As with everything we do, we'll listen to what people think of the product and make decisions based on that. We are nervous about splitting the audience and want to get people playing the "full" version of Pathfinder after exploring the Beginner Box, but our ears are always open, and you're definitely posting where the decision makers are hanging out and waiting to listen for feedback, so let's see what happens...


Erik Mona wrote:

Guys, guys, the box isn't even officially out, yet. As with everything we do, we'll listen to what people think of the product and make decisions based on that. We are nervous about splitting the audience and want to get people playing the "full" version of Pathfinder after exploring the Beginner Box, but our ears are always open, and you're definitely posting where the decision makers are hanging out and waiting to listen for feedback, so let's see what happens...

My apologies, Erik. Just blame it on enthusiasm for the great product you made :) I think this is the tip of an iceberg for a group of D&D fans that are looking for something professionally produced, supported, modern_ yet_simple. They have been waiting for this for a while, hence the reaction.

Thanks for the calming comments :)

Grand Lodge

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All this said, a simple character expansion pack wouldn't hurt either. Flat pack with some more cardboard characters, some addition monsters and another set of character sheets with 4 or 8 more iconics.

Should be easy to produce (you have the iconics artwork already) and easy to ship, but as you said, wait and see.

Scarab Sages

What's to stop the community converting material?

Would that require signing up to the Compatibility Licence, if it were homebrew material on these boards?


Erik Mona wrote:

Guys, guys, the box isn't even officially out, yet. As with everything we do, we'll listen to what people think of the product and make decisions based on that. We are nervous about splitting the audience and want to get people playing the "full" version of Pathfinder after exploring the Beginner Box, but our ears are always open, and you're definitely posting where the decision makers are hanging out and waiting to listen for feedback, so let's see what happens...

Sounds good! One thing to keep in mind: there are people out there that have avoided PF because of the high crunch level, but are interested in this version precisely because of its scaled back crunch level. The beginner box is a great spot for those of us who feel games like Castles & Crusades offer too few options but don't want the 'overload' of standard PF.

Grand Lodge

Not to spruik another companies stuff on the Paizo site but the C&C thing sort of does work ok. I like what I saw.

Looking forward to the Box set bash event this Saturday to see how the PF beginner thing works


Maybe a box set for levels 11-20 and then one for 21-30 and then other box sets that detail new worlds and settings and Paizo could juggle all it's resources between two different (but very similar) game systems and multiple boxed settings and...wait a minute...didn't a company already try this once?

Come on guys, it says it right in the title: "Beginner Box", you begin with it then move on to the full version.

Shadow Lodge

cibet44 wrote:
Come on guys, it says it right in the title: "Beginner Box", you begin with it then move on to the full version.

Unless they release Expert, Companion, Master, and Immortal boxed sets. :P

Liberty's Edge

Skywaker wrote:
I think this is the tip of an iceberg for a group of D&D fans that are looking for something professionally produced, supported, modern _yet_ simple.

I agree.

Here's my short wish list, followed by some insight to why I want these wish list items. Here's what I'd like to see:

1) Official sanctioning of 'basic' style play. All this is is approving the 'lite' way of playing (no AoO, etc.) in PFS modules. At a PFS event, GM just notes "I'm using the Basic Style rules" so as to alert player that the 'advanced' rules aren't in play. This means GM's that like the 'lite' / basic style can continue to GM that way.

2) (Optional) An expansion or two (another box set or just rule books maybe) that takes you through level 12, still using this simplified (no AoO, etc.) approach. This second item is optional though; I'd like to have it, but I could live with simply Paizo sanctioning 'basic style' play, and letting me run the existing PFS scenarios with fewer rules.

Why do I want this? Here's the thing. I'm trying to GM a group of teenagers who grew up on video games where you don't read a manual, ever. You learn the rules as you play and generally you don't ever read any rules, ever. I've GM'd several games (about a dozen or so I think) with the same group of teenagers.

They don't read the 500 page book, and they never will. It's just too big.

So the only rules they are picking up are ones they can easily learn at the table and not forget in the 2 or 4 weeks between sessions. They do seem to be willing to read other RPG books which are < 60 or so pages.

While I'm willing to teach them AoO and what not, this 'I don't read lots of rules' mentality is hampering our growth. As it is, I'm in the process of switching to Savage Worlds, because my experience with this is that it is a system that lends itself to not reading the rules. What you can learn at the table is truly all you need to know of the game.

What I'd like to see is that we run in 'Basic' mode in our home games, use 60 page rules books. At conventions their characters would be allowed at the table. They could play in a Core rules game, and just lose some of the extra edges like AoO. If they did something that provoked an AoO but they didn't know what that was, the GM could nudge them through it. If the continued to want to hone their skills, then they could always move over to Core at that point and read the 500 page manual and other material.

So I understand not wanting to split players. I'm just asking for support for Levels 1 to 12 to be allowed to play in 'Basic' style, and keep all the scenarios and adventures paths to be the same content (maybe flagging 'Core' rules when they are used in the material so 'Basic' players could skip over them). I wouldn't see anything over Level 12 to be needed for Basic; if you get past that you're really ready for Core.

I don't think these teenagers in my group will EVER want to 'step up' to Core, unless they play for a couple of years. Basic, Beginner Box style is really all they want for the first year or two, and maybe always. But they do love the setting and the modules.

And, we're already doing this. We have three XP advancement tracks (slow, medium, fast). We have different tiers in scenarios to support parties of different levels. I'm just asking for a similar approach to essentially allowing a house-ruled 'basic' style of the rules, not an entirely new product line.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Presenting... 4 new beginner box style classes

Some of the spells are still a work in progress. I'll probably create some "iconics" to go with the classes eventually too, depending on interest. Kept off the Beginner Box page, due to Paizo's stated interests.


Dwilimir wrote:
Why do I want this? Here's the thing. I'm trying to GM a group of teenagers who grew up on video games where you don't read a manual, ever. You learn the rules as you play and generally you don't ever read any rules, ever. I've GM'd several games (about a dozen or so I think) with the same group of teenagers.

FWIW I run RPGs at a local high school too. I have run various RPGs for them (they love RPGing) and to be honest Pathfinder sunk like a stone.

I don't quite agree with Dwilimir that they will never read a manual but with so many options out there for them, PF's full presentation and size doesn't even make it a contender.

In comparison, PF BB would work very well IMO but the issue remains that I can't use my other Pathfinder products fully with such as Adventure Paths.

Liberty's Edge

Skywaker wrote:

FWIW I run RPGs at a local high school too. I have run various RPGs for them (they love RPGing) and to be honest Pathfinder sunk like a stone.

I don't quite agree with Dwilimir that they will never read a manual but with so many options out there for them, PF's full presentation and size doesn't even make it a contender.

I guess I'd best clarify I'm speaking about my particular group of teenagers; the kids in that group won't read a 500 page manual, but I'm sure some other teenagers might.

Nonetheless, I suspect the Beginner Box and other shorter (less rules to read) format games and adventures have more appeal for the younger crowd.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Flag and bag it people, trolling is so 2008.

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Removed innappropriate post and responses replying to it.


Sara Marie wrote:
Removed innappropriate post and responses replying to it.

Drat, I missed the action! ;)


Sara Marie wrote:
Removed innappropriate post and responses replying to it.

Like.

Shadow Lodge

Since we're in the "I want more" thread, what I'd like to see more of is the counters. I LOVE this idea. I love the Pathfinder paper minis, though I am really crappy with papercraft, so all my printouts lay uncut and uncrafted.
I love the new prepainted Pathfinder plastic minis, but I am poor and can't afford them.
I had planned on making my own stand up counters from pdf's shrunken down, but now Paizo has the counters in the PFBB.

Are there any plans to come out with hardcopies and pdfs of the various Bestiaries? That would be incredible. I could keep all the counters I need in the Beginner Box and pop them out when needed... I love this idea.

I plan on starting a Pathfinder Beginner Box after school program at my son's school named, appropriately enough, Pathfinder, over in West Seattle. I want to just go in there and provide pointers of they need it, and see if these guys can figure out the game for themselves right out of the box. Maybe in January, after I (hopefully) get my PFBB from Amazon. It sounds like they're going to get it to me sometime in December.

Unless someone wants to donate a copy to a bunch of 3rd and 4th grade kids who saw the Wayne Reynolds art on the cover of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and went, "WOAH!!! Did our school come out with THAT?"

- Rebis


+1 to the above! And I'll also say that PFBB looks like the game I really want to play. Here less is more :) Just need a couple more classes, races and monsters, some levels, and we're good to go!

Dark Archive

I am a "mature" gamer (i.e. I am in the over-30 age bracket). I like PFS and don't mind the tons of crunch that PFRPG has. (Note, I don't necessarily like it either.) I am willing to wade through the rules because I like the PFS system and like Golarion.

However, my homegroup (all of us are 30+) won't touch Pathfinder due to the rules-heavy nature of the game. They want something lite and fast. I think they would love Golarion, but the rules are a deal-breaker. The Beginner Box is perfect for my situation. I think I can get them to play it and like it. They liked Castles & Crusades, so I think the Beginner Box is an easy sell.

So, put me in the "I Want More" category.

I want to see it kept rules-lite and have progression above 5th level. There is no need to produce a ton of Beginner Box specific material, since the modules and Adventure Paths can be easily adapted. (However, a few Beginner Box specific modules here and there wouldn't hurt.) Just give me the ability to get to level 20 using the "lite" rules.


Who reads the whole "500 page book" upfront? The second half of the Core Rulebook is really only for game masters anyway.

Nobody should feel obligated to have to read the whole book to play. It works like a reference book as much as anything else. I don't read the dictionary unless I want to know what a word means. As long as they get the gist of the rules, reading the whole book isn't necessary.

That having been said, I like AoOs. I don't mind that Beginner Box doesn't have them, but I think the Beginner Box should serve more as a Quick Start Guide than an alternate product line. Start with the Beginner Box and as play continues, you can graduate to concepts in the Core Rulebook not included in the Beginner Box.

I mean, isn't that what you're saying anyway? "I wish the Beginner Box had more support material to add complexity and diversity to the product." Well, yeah, that's when you start reading about Attacks of Opportunity and Combat Maneuvers in the Core Rulebook. There's your added complexity and diversity right there, not to mention more classes and levels, and spells.

Dark Archive

Wolf Munroe wrote:

Who reads the whole "500 page book" upfront? The second half of the Core Rulebook is really only for game masters anyway.

Nobody should feel obligated to have to read the whole book to play. It works like a reference book as much as anything else. I don't read the dictionary unless I want to know what a word means. As long as they get the gist of the rules, reading the whole book isn't necessary.

I read through the book upfront. I have been playing PFRPG regularly for over a year. I have a college degree and I work in IT. I read computer programming books for fun. I also like reading 300+ page novels. Perhaps I am strange in that I like to read through and attempt to understand the rules of a game before I play that game.

That being said, I still feel like I don't have the gist of the rules for PFRPG. Perhaps I need to read the Core Rulebook again to get a firmer understanding?

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