Questions Regarding Battering Blast and Magic Mace


Rules Questions


Alright, I have several questions regarding two different spells that I happened to find for pathfinder, and I was hoping that someone could help me clear up any potential confusion regarding how they work. First up is Battering Blast, and here is what it does...

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Battering Blast
Evocation [Force]; Level 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 feet/2 levels)
Target one creature or unattended object
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex partial (see text); Spell Resist: yes
You hurl a fist-sized ball of force resembling a sphere of spikes to ram a designated creature or object. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike your target. On a successful hit, you deal 1d6 points of force damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d6). For every 5 caster levels you possess beyond 5th, you gain a second ball of force.

A creature struck by any of these is subject to a bull rush attempt. The force has a Strength modifier equal to your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier (whichever is highest). The CMB for the force’s bull rush uses your caster level as its base attack bonus, adding the force’s Strength modifier and a +10 bonus for each additional blast directed against the same target. Each sphere of force makes its own separate bull rush attempt—if multiple spheres strike one target, you make multiple CMB checks but only take the highest result to determine success. If the bull rush succeeds, the force pushes the creature away from you in a straight line, and the creature must make a Reflex save or fall prone.

This spell pushes an unattended object struck by it 20 feet away from you, provided it weighs no more than 25 pounds per level (maximum 250 pounds). This spell cannot move creatures or objects beyond your range. Used on a door or other obstacle, the spell attempts a Strength check to destroy it if the sheer damage inflicted by the spell doesn’t do the job.

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Okay, my question is mostly in regards to the +10 bonus you receive when attempting to bull rush with more than one orb. For example, lets say that I direct 2 orbs at a target and hit with both orbs. Would I get the +10 bonus for BOTH bull rush attempts, or would that bonus only apply to the 'second' orb that hit? Moreover, lets say I directed 2 orbs at a target, but only 1 hit. Well, according to the wording of the spell, would I still get the +10 bonus to the bull rush attempt even though the second orb did not hit (because it specifically states that you get the bonus for each orb 'directed' against the same target)?

And finally, if I fired 3 orbs and hit with all 3 of them, would the +10 bonus stack (effectively giving me a +20 bonus for the bull rush attempt)?

Whew...I hope I did a good job at clarifying that question. Now then, on to the second spell question, and this one is regarding the wording for 'Magic Mace'. Now, according to Paizo, this is what 'Magic Mace' does:

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Magic Mace
School evocation [force]; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Range touch
Target creature touched
As magic missile, but it deals d8s rather than d4s.

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So my question is this: would it be safe to assume that this spell can actually be reworded in the following manner...

Magic Mace
Evocation [Force]; Level 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw: none; Spell Resist: yes
Your successful melee touch attack deals 1d8+1 points of force damage. For every two caster levels beyond 1st, the damage increases by an additional 1d8+1 (2d8+2 at 3rd level, 3d8+3 at 5th, 4d8+4 at 7th, and the maximum of 5d8+5 at 9th level or higher).

I am merely asking because this seems like A LOT of damage for a level 1 spell (which I'm perfectly fine with considering that it IS a touch spell, but I wanted to make sure that I'm interpreting correctly). Thanks again for the help.


lol,I suppose I might as well add one more thing the question while I'm at it. This next one is in regards to the Molten Glass spell. Here is what it does...

Molten Glass
Conjuration (creation) [acid]; Level sorcerer/wizard 6
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (rhubarb leaf and an adder's stomach), F (a dart)
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Duration 1 round + 1 round per three levels
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit your target. If successful, the target takes deals 5d6 points of fire damage and is slowed with no splash damage. For every three caster levels you possess, the fire, unless neutralized, lasts for another round (to a maximum of 6 additional rounds at 18th level), dealing another 5d6 points of damage in each round.

Alright, here are my questions:

1) The spell says 'conjuration acid' but deals damage in 'fire' damage. I was wondering if there was errata here.

2) What 'exactly' happens to a target that is "slowed" (the condition of slowed normally refers to the 'slow spell' but it not otherwise specified under the conditions list). I only ask because this spell seems wickedly strong if it imparts the 'slow as the spell' effect on anything it wants (seeing as how there is no SR). Again, any clarification would be appreciated.


Not sure about battering blast but it looks like you have it right in terms of the bonus stacking, though personally I'd say you have to hit to get the bonus. It isn't strictly written that way but think about it, you have a ball of force pushing someone, with the other ball aiding it with a +10 bonus. The other ball can't aid without connecting. Also, I'd assume it only gives one bullrush attempt per enemy.

I can't seem to find magic mace, but if it is a touch attack version of magic missile you do not get additional damage, but rather additional missiles. Important on a couple points, first is that each one would require a separate attack. Second is that if anything has an ability to reduce force damage it would reduce each missile individually and could conceivably result in 0 damage.

Again, not seeing molten glass but it doesn't look too strong. 5d6 is decent damage but again energy resistance can beat that. Over multiple rounds hurts, but if you resist it once you will probably continue to do so. Also, slow would be as the spell, so you basically take a rather small amount of damage for a 6th level spell, plus a 2nd level spell debuff. I agree it does seem odd for it to not have SR. Also, the damage must be a typo. It is either conjuration acid with acid damage or evocation fire with fire damage.

*Edit: Ok, so those are 3rd party spells. That explains a lot. They often have poor editing (not to mention balance). I would assume that the molten glass spell is meant to be an evocation spell but they put conjuration acid because they based it off of acid arrow. Personally, I'd give it spell resistance and some indication as to how to neutralize the fire (reflex save to put out the continuing flames?). That would make it a reasonable spell that could still be fairly useful against someone without energy resistance.


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I agree, Battering Blast is rather confusing, but I appreciate the help. Again, I was hoping to try and understand if I'm interpreting the spell correctly.

Anyways though, regarding Magic Mace, it seems to imply that it 'replaces' the missiles from 'Magic Missile' with a touch attack (and the only explict change is changing d4s into d8s). Again, this leads me to believe that the damage of the 'Magic Mace' scales in damage the same way Magic Missile does (but again, looking for more clarification is all).

And yes, Molten Glass is confusing. I really am hoping that someone can come forward and explain it a little better, but I appreciate you looking at it all the same.


I'm going to go ahead and attempt to answer my own question regarding the "Battering Blast" spell (though further clarification from another source regarding my interpretation as well as the other two spells I listed would be greatly appreciated). Anyways, here is what I 'think' the spell actually does...

Battering Blast
Evocation [Force]; Level 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 feet/2 levels)
Target one creature or unattended object
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex partial (see text); Spell Resist: yes
You hurl a fist-sized ball of force resembling a sphere of spikes to ram a designated creature or object. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike your target. On a successful hit, you deal 1d6 points of force damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d6). For every 5 caster levels you possess beyond 5th, you gain a second ball of force.

A creature struck by any of these orbs is subject to a bull rush attempt. The force has a Strength modifier equal to your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier (whichever is highest). The CMB for the force’s bull rush uses your caster level as its base attack bonus, adding the force’s Strength modifier, as well as an additional +10 bonus for each extra blast that hits the same target. You only make a single CMB check to determine success, even if the orbs hit multiple targets. If the bull rush succeeds, the force pushes the creature away from you in a straight line, and the creature must make a Reflex save or fall prone.

This spell pushes an unattended object struck by it 20 feet away from you, provided it weighs no more than 25 pounds per level (maximum 250 pounds). This spell cannot move creatures or objects beyond your range. Used on a door or other obstacle, the spell attempts a Strength check to destroy it if the sheer damage inflicted by the spell doesn’t do the job.

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Okay everyone, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the above version is what the actual spell was TRYING to do (again, if you think otherwise, let me know). I kinda felt that making multiple checks was sort of redundant, and in order to avoid confusion, the spell now simply makes a single CMB check for every orb that is fired (which simplifies the spell immensely). Again, opinions and advice are always welcome.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I am looking at using this spell also and that is a good way to describe it. Here is another question though.

Would the Feat Intensified Spell work with Battering Blast? I would guess yes but, only with the first ball, so you could end up with 10d6 damage at 19th level and 3 more spheres at 5d6 to follow that up.

Does this sound correct, or is there a better answer? Any help would be appreciated.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Intensified would go to 7d6,not 10. But across all orbs

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