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Okay, so IME, the Eidolon of a summoner seems a little bit overpowered, but I've heard others say its merely competitive.
This isn't quite a DPR Olympics thread, but sortof.
I'm interested in comparing an Eidolon to a THF Meleer, at 1, 5, 6, 10, 11, 15, 16, and 20.
I'm interested in seeing the Attack Bonuses, Average Damage for each attack, AC, Touch AC, Saves, HP, and DR, particularly. Note any Damage that isnt reduced by DR separately, and note Crit Ranges and multipliers.
I'm not sure how the DPR olympics do it, but I was planning on comparing all of the builds against various ACs (like, 1-50) and DRs (like, 1-20) in Excel, and showing the results in charts and stuff.
Here are the builds I'm interested in most:
1. Specced for the best damage you can get (use iteratives and natural attacks).
2. Natural Attacks Only.
3. Synthesist for Condition 1.
4. Synthesist for Condition 2.
I'm interested in how they compare to a THF Meleer. Fighter is probably the best bet, but if you can build a better DPR Barbarian we can look at that too.
Can I get a hand coming up with the builds with which to make these calculations?
I believe the standard is WBL and 15 point buy?
Might I suggest the Druid as well? A melee wildshaping druid...
a 5th lvl wildshaped druid can do 42 DPR with no magic, no buffs, no animal companion against an AC22
EDIT: add an animal companion using Aid Other it rises to 62 DPR
EDIT 2: put on a Bull Strength and it goes to 87 DPR
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Synthesist has many rule problems,the standard Summoner is better
They both have problems, in my opinion, its just a massive number crunch to get anywhere with it.
I want to make an app to compare them, level by level, against varying DR and AC. Something ugly, on the command line. But alas, University is keeping me busy making apps for marks.
a 5th lvl wildshaped druid can do 42 DPR with no magic, no buffs, no animal companion against an AC22
EDIT: add an animal companion using Aid Other it rises to 62 DPR
EDIT 2: put on a Bull Strength and it goes to 87 DPR
... That's higher than my level 12 Synergist summoner with 5 attacks. I think the level 12 summoner came out to like 41, and it seemed to be doing slightly better than a thf.
Maybe we're using different methods to calculate?
shionyr.com/dpr-calc.html
18 STR Power Attacking Talons x 2 +6 (4.5 +6), Bite +6 (3.5 +6), Fore Claws x 2 +1 (2.5 +6)
deionychus shape
EDIT: Dumped CHA 20 pt buy..WIS 15, INT 10, DEX 12, CON 14....if my memory serves right. Natural Spell, Imp Initiative and Power Attack. Human although Half Orc would work just as well
Space, got a link to the druid? The Level 5 druid i slapped together is pulling around 26 unbuffed.
Space, got a link to the druid? The Level 5 druid i slapped together is pulling around 26 unbuffed.
Just put up the very bare bones. Unless the damage calculator is off there is nothing fancy going on. Just lots of attacks with a high average and because there are a lot of attacks then I guess the odds of pulling a crit go up.
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I wrote my own in Excel, but it looks like I take almost all the same variables.
They don't consider DR, whereas I do, for example, and I dont make the assumption that all the attacks are the with the same weapon.
But mines not a handy web form, its an excel sheed thats not very well organized. lol.
I punched the numbers you posted into the web calculator, and it gives me 8.8485 dpr against AC22.
You sure those are the right numbers?
Am druid (20 pt buy), 5th level druid Deionychus form
Dex 12 (+1 @level 4)
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 14
Cha 7 (raised by wolves. And returned for a refund)
Feats: Human- eye for talent alternate racial ability
1st: toughness
3rd: Power Attack
5th Natural spell
Attacks
Bab +3 Str +7
Melee 2 talons +10 (1d8+7), bite +10 (1d6+7), foreclaws +5 (1d4+3)
DPR calculation against ac 22
h(d+s)+tchd.
he damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd.
h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed.
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is again assumed.
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a percentage.
c = Critical hit bonus damage. x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3.
24.2275 without power attack
26.0425 with power attack
No DR was assumed.
lol... I'm a dumb a$$!
Put in the average of the TOTAL damage possible which is 47.5...DOH!
BigNorseWolf is correct
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Math
Yep, thats the formula I used, except add in a variable to subtract DR from damage rolled, and since I did it as an excel function, I pre-factored in the autofail on a 1, and worked in the fact that on a critical threat, you automatically do at least your normal damage; which I dont think you account for.
MathYep, thats the formula I used, except add in a variable to subtract DR from damage rolled, and since I did it as an excel function, I pre-factored in the autofail on a 1, and worked in the fact that on a critical threat, you automatically do at least your normal damage; which I dont think you account for.
You only need to do that if you're figuring out something for a variable ac. with a static target AC its just plug in the numbers and go.
whoops.. and i messed up the hit %, real DPR is 17.8 without PA and 18.5 with it.
Put in the average of the TOTAL damage possible which is 47.5...DOH!
Phew.. i thought i was going to get my geek pass revoked there...
Tony –Medium tiger
Dex 17
Con 13
Int 2
Wis 15
Cha 10
Attacks
Bab +3 Strength +4 wf +1
Attack bite (1d6+4), 2 claws (1d4+4)
Attack Bite +11 , Claws + 11
Hit chance = .35 (14 or higher)
Damage Per round= ~9.3
The druid and tiger get MUCH better at levels 6 and 7.