High Dex Armor


Homebrew and House Rules


I play a high dex character and want good armor that does not limit my dex.

so far the best I have been able to manage are mithril chian shirts which allo a dex bonus of up to +6

The Core book has something called

Celestial Armor 22,400
+3 chain, dex up to +8, fly 1 per day.

I would love to use this armor but its expensive and I do not need the fly bonus.

does any one know what formula was used to make this item?

so far I have

400 - MW chainmail
4000 - mithril chain
9000 - +3 ac bonus
----------------------that = 13,400
+2 dex bonus - ???
fly - ???
user must be "good" - ???

I am not sure how the last 3 add to the cost. is fly 1/day an additional plus? how is the +2 dex added in and is the requirement for good a penalty that lowers the cost?

Dark Archive

blue_the_wolf wrote:

I play a high dex character and want good armor that does not limit my dex.

so far the best I have been able to manage are mithril chian shirts which allo a dex bonus of up to +6

The Core book has something called

Celestial Armor 22,400
+3 chain, dex up to +8, fly 1 per day.

I would love to use this armor but its expensive and I do not need the fly bonus.

does any one know what formula was used to make this item?

so far I have

400 - MW chainmail
4000 - mithril chain
9000 - +3 ac bonus
----------------------that = 13,400
+2 dex bonus - ???
fly - ???
user must be "good" - ???

I am not sure how the last 3 add to the cost. is fly 1/day an additional plus? how is the +2 dex added in and is the requirement for good a penalty that lowers the cost?

unique formula, specific item. not ment to be reverse engineered to make other stuff

also i didnt think celestial chain is mithral

The Exchange

You'd have to see if the GM has come up with anything unusual in order to trump Celestial Armor.

If I recall my comic books correctly, you can disdain armor entirely and wear a leotard and cape to get infinite Max Dex and a flabbergasting amount of DR. (Having an origin story may be a prerequisite.)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The Core Rulebook has padded (+1 armor, +8 max. Dex). The Advanced Player's Guide has quilted cloth (+1 armor, +8 max. Dex, DR 3/- vs. small ranged piercing). Ultimate Combat has haramaki (+1 armor, no max. Dex) and silken ceremonial armor (+1 armor, no max. Dex).

Until/unless the character has 24+ Dex, a mithral chain shirt (+4 armor, +6 max. Dex) is the most cost-effective choice. If the character has less than a 22 Dex, then a mithral breastplate (+6 armor, +5 max. Dex) offers the best total AC for armor (except for mithral full plate +9/+3 and celestial armor +5/+8).

There is no separate "celestial" ability/property (it's a "specific armor" after all), but the breakdown seems to be:

..300 gp masterwork chainmail
.9000 gp +3 enhancement bonus
.5400 gp fly (command word) 1/day
.7700 gp light armor, raise max. Dex by +6, reduce armor check by -3 and arcane failure by 15%
========
22400 gp total

It doesn't gain cost reductions, because there are not any restrictions on who can use it.


Dragonchess Player wrote:


There is no separate "celestial" ability/property (it's a "specific armor" after all), but the breakdown seems to be:

..300 gp masterwork chainmail
.9000 gp +3 enhancement bonus
.5400 gp fly (command word) 1/day
.7700 gp light armor, raise max. Dex by +6, reduce armor check by -3 and arcane failure by 15%
========
22400 gp total

good on the 5400 for fly...

7700 for light armor, max dex and reduce armor check...

Did you just throw in that last part or is there some formula with it?

Liberty's Edge

Name Violation wrote:
blue_the_wolf wrote:

I play a high dex character and want good armor that does not limit my dex.

so far the best I have been able to manage are mithral chain shirts which allow a dex bonus of up to +6

The Core book has something called

Celestial Armor 22,400
+3 chain, dex up to +8, fly 1 per day.

I would love to use this armor but its expensive and I do not need the fly bonus.

does any one know what formula was used to make this item?

so far I have

400 - MW chainmail
4000 - mithral chain
9000 - +3 ac bonus
----------------------that = 13,400
+2 dex bonus - ???
fly - ???
user must be "good" - ???

I am not sure how the last 3 add to the cost. is fly 1/day an additional plus? how is the +2 dex added in and is the requirement for good a penalty that lowers the cost?

unique formula, specific item. not meant to be reverse engineered to make other stuff

also i didn't think celestial chain is mithral

We can definitely reverse engineer the price, but we have to decide what portion constitutes the celestial enhancement. I would assume it is mithral chainmail due to the increased dex bonus, reduced armor check, the fact it is considered light armor, and the reduced arcane spell failure chance. We can then compute the cost of the base mithral chainmail +3. Now we compute the cost of adding fly using the magic item creation rules(one charge per day, command word activation, secondary bonus). The remainder of the cost is the celestial portion which includes a 5% additional reduction in armor check, an additional +4 max dex bonus, and "it can be worn under clothing without betraying it's presence". You could also decide the item is not mithral and attribute all of the bonus associated with mithral as part of the celestial or even add fly as part of the effect.

The point is not to have a 100% legit version, but to give a starting point for the cost to utilize "celestial" in home-brew armor creation. As a DM I encourage this type of creativity among my players and try to use these types of reverse engineering procedures to keep things balanced. As DM I am free to adjust the price and availability, but having a process that is based on existing items, spells, classes, and races makes the power comparison much easier. For example, I might add that the price of this enchantment increases with heavier armor types similar to mithral, requires the item to be mithral, or possibly the item must have the fly ability. I use the process to create a basis for power and the player gets their mad-cap idea realized in game.

Scarab Sages

Try using Bracers of Armor or get a wand of Mage Armor and give it to the parties arcane caster.

As a bonus, both of these are classified as force effects. That means they apply to your touch AC.


Artanthos wrote:

Try using Bracers of Armor or get a wand of Mage Armor and give it to the parties arcane caster.

As a bonus, both of these are classified as force effects. That means they apply to your touch AC.

unfortunately I play a ranger and actually want the armor not some other simulacrum of it.

I play a ranger with a 22 dex (stats and +2 dex belt) I want good armor that can continue to grow with the characters dex bonus should I gain more.

At this point I can use a mithril breastplate (AC 6 dex +5) or a mithril chain shirt (AC 4 dex +6) the non-metal light armors do not have enough base AC bonus and the other armors do not have enough Dex range.

Thus the Celestial armor is perfect. (base AC 6 dex +8) The only problem with that is that I dont really need to fly and to be honest flight may be to much of a bonus for my ranged DPS character that is already quite adept at getting away from melee danger. so how do i subtract the flight bonus? or can I replace it with something else...

according to dragon chess celestial armor without the fly should be

about 17,000
I think i will go with that and see how the GM accepts it.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
blue_the_wolf wrote:

7700 for light armor, max dex and reduce armor check...

Did you just throw in that last part or is there some formula with it?

It's just thrown in. I can calculate the market price of the masterwork chainmail, the +3 enhancement bonus, and the command word spell effect with the magic item creation rules; 7,700 gp is the remaining amount.

I don't have anything to use when calculating the market price for the +6 to max. Dex, the +3 to armor check, the -15% to arcane failure, and changing from medium to light armor. I could try to reverse-engineer each part based on the (bonus * bonus * value) formula and guess the value of changing armor categories (2,500 gp?), but it would probably take more time than it's worth.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Artanthos wrote:

Try using Bracers of Armor or get a wand of Mage Armor and give it to the parties arcane caster.

As a bonus, both of these are classified as force effects. That means they apply to your touch AC.

Not quite. Force effects count against incorporeal touch attacks, not touch attacks in general.

Silver Crusade

Right under your nose: CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS wrote:
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fly, creator must be good; Cost 11,350 gp.

It is specific armor, so the formula to create is simple. You need the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, the fly spell, and be of good alignment. It will cost 11,350 gold- the MW chainmail is included. It is a Spellcraft or Craft (Armor) DC 10 to make and requires 12 days of work normally. It is a good deal.

If you lack the fly spell, caster level 5, or are not of good alignment, the DC is 15. Lacking two makes it DC 20, and all three makes it DC 25. I'm not 100% sure one can make this without the fly spell, but I think it can. From crafting magic items: "...you cannot create potions, scrolls, staves, wands, or any other spell-trigger or spell-completion magic item without meeting its prerequisites." The armor grants fly 1/day on command, so I think the only thing you NEED is the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat.

Scarab Sages

blue_the_wolf wrote:


unfortunately I play a ranger and actually want the armor not some other simulacrum of it.

I play a ranger with a 22 dex (stats and +2 dex belt) I want good armor that can continue to grow with the characters dex bonus should I gain more.

At this point I can use a mithril breastplate (AC 6 dex +5) or a mithril chain shirt (AC 4 dex +6) the non-metal light armors do not have enough base AC bonus and the other armors do not have enough Dex range.

To put it in perspective for you, I have a halfling cleric / monk with a 25 dex and 28 wis. I am using bracers of armor (7 AC, no dex cap), I have a +5 armor enhancement on my robes.

I could choose to wear celestial armor but, even without counting my wisdom bonuses, it would be a downgrade for me. Celestial armor both offers less AC than my bracers and would cap my dex.

I have seen rangers dex builds splashed with 1 level of monk successfully pursue a similar strategy for high AC.


I have to point out that, while shiny the celestial armor is in fact not hade of mithril, if the magic is dispelled or supressed its a chainshirt with max dex 4.

All the specific armors where once priced with a lot of guessing and tweaking, to find a good place for the item in terms of power and price. RAW as far as I know is that they can´t be ugraded from +3 to +4, but most DMs I know will allow the upgrade.

The same is true for something like a holy avenger or a sun blade.


right... I understand that.

but thats simply not what I am looking for.

my character would have no reason what so ever to take monk. I am not really a min/maxer and like to role play my characters in a way that I feel makes sense.

thus I can try to find the best armor for the character but I am not going to some how magically cross class with no prior desire or training, for the sole purpose of receive some mechanical stat bonus.

Scarab Sages

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Not a min/maxer? Then what are you doing trying to design a custom item to use? That, good sir, is definitely min/maxing :p It's not like you're taking an item out of the book. You're actively trying to change an armor in order to make it more cost effective/valuable to you. Definitely min/maxing :D


Magicdealer wrote:
Not a min/maxer? Then what are you doing trying to design a custom item to use? That, good sir, is definitely min/maxing :p It's not like you're taking an item out of the book. You're actively trying to change an armor in order to make it more cost effective/valuable to you. Definitely min/maxing :D

LOL. to an extent, but to a reasonable extent. :)

the difference being one feels more like ROLE play to me and the other feels more like STAT play, not that i want to start that argument. the bottom line being my character is not going to spontaniously learn the skills of a monk when there is no valid reason to justify or explain it simply for the stat bump. My character WILL however research and barter for a specially crafted suit of armor that suits her needs.

Scarab Sages

blue_the_wolf wrote:


LOL. to an extent, but to a reasonable extent. :)

the difference being one feels more like ROLE play to me and the other feels more like STAT play, not that i want to start that argument. the bottom line being my character is not going to spontaniously learn the skills of a monk when there is no valid reason to justify or explain it simply for the stat bump. My character WILL however research and barter for a specially crafted suit of armor that suits her needs.

Which is totally fair :p I just get itchy with the whole min/max thing :/ It's so misunderstood.

Monk is good in one way, but bad in another. I'd honestly suggest you try to stay away from custom items like this. It's really easy to go into dragon land when heading down this path :p

I'd suggest considering the +1 ac - no dex limit armors from ultimate combat. You can easily reflavor them to something more appropriate to your campaign and your character. I'll explain why.

Dividing the enchantment up into a dex bonus increase means that even with super light armor, you'd still be dex capped.

A level one character can have a dex of 20. Since you're dex-based, I'm assuming this is true of you as well. Or something close. 5 inherent bonuses from leveling, 5 from wish, 6 from belt, and possibly 2-4 from size reducers would put you at a dex of 36-40. That's a range of +13 to +15 dex. If you add in urban ranger and alchemist, you could end up with a dex of 48 or more even.

If your armor is capped at a dex of 8 or 10, you'll have to change to new armor anyways. If you start with armor sans a dex cap, then you'll never have to sell it and hunt for a replacement. You can just keep getting it enhanced. For the most part, the max dex/armor tradeoff keeps the total ac balanced against one another. The only way to really break that balance effectively is to have a dex score well above the maximum.

Granted, this advice is for a really dex-focused character. One who's probably using the agile enhancement to add all that good dex-ness to weapon damage.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
blue_the_wolf wrote:
Artanthos wrote:

Try using Bracers of Armor or get a wand of Mage Armor and give it to the parties arcane caster.

As a bonus, both of these are classified as force effects. That means they apply to your touch AC.

unfortunately I play a ranger and actually want the armor not some other simulacrum of it.

Important question... what kind of ranger are you? At some point the AC race just isn't going to go any farther for you. If you're ranged, it's something you learn to accept and make better use of cover and terrain, also, consider things such as cloaks of displacement which give you hit negation of up to 50 percent.


Here's what you can do with the piece mail armor rules from ultimate combat.

Scarab Sages

blue_the_wolf wrote:

right... I understand that.

but thats simply not what I am looking for.

my character would have no reason what so ever to take monk. I am not really a min/maxer and like to role play my characters in a way that I feel makes sense.

thus I can try to find the best armor for the character but I am not going to some how magically cross class with no prior desire or training, for the sole purpose of receive some mechanical stat bonus.

And I repeat. Once your Dex gets past a certain point, armor is simply not the way to go. You'll start getting more benefit from Bracers of armor + putting an armor enhancement on cloth. Heck, even without dex being a factor, celetial armor is still surpassed by bracers + enhanced robes.

Celestial = +6 armor, +3 enhancement = 9 AC dex cap of +8

Bracers = +8 armor, +5 enhancement (on robes) = 13 AC no dex cap


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Artanthos wrote:


And I repeat. Once your Dex gets past a certain point, armor is simply not the way to go. You'll start getting more benefit from Bracers of armor + putting an armor enhancement on cloth. Heck, even without dex being a factor, celetial armor is still surpassed by bracers + enhanced robes.

Celestial = +6 armor, +3 enhancement = 9 AC dex cap of +8

Bracers = +8 armor, +5 enhancement (on robes) = 13 AC no dex cap

Since when can you stack robe armor, and armor from bracers of armor. Bracers of Armor specifically state they cannot be combined with other armor.

You are essentially wearing two sets of armor, one giving you a +8 Armor bonus to AC, and another give you a 0+5 armor bonus to AC. They don't stack, you just take the better of the too.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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I merged the two threads on this topic.

Scarab Sages

Maezer wrote:


Since when can you stack robe armor, and armor from bracers of armor. Bracers of Armor specifically state they cannot be combined with other armor.
You are essentially wearing two sets of armor, one giving you a +8 Armor bonus to AC, and another give you a 0+5 armor bonus to AC. They don't stack, you just take the better of the too.

Since they are different types of bonuses. It works exactly the same way it does when you enchant any other kind of armor.

Bracers of armor provide an Armor Bonus, just like chainmail or full plate.

The robes would be a +5 enhancement bonus. The same kind of bonus you receive when you enchant chainmail or full plate.

Dark Archive

they dont stack. i'm pretty sure the devs clarified this.

the bracers cant stack with any "armor", even magical cloth. the cloth would be the same thing as the bracers, just re slotted

Scarab Sages

Name Violation wrote:

they dont stack. i'm pretty sure the devs clarified this.

the bracers cant stack with any "armor", even magical cloth. the cloth would be the same thing as the bracers, just re slotted

Bonuses of the same kind do not stack. Bracers will not stack with say studded leather, the better will prevail.

Bracers do not, however, provide any enhancement bonus. Further, robes do not occupy the armor slot. You are receiving a bonus you do not already have from an item that is not considered armor. An item the core rules already establish as being capable of providing enhancement bonuses.

Dark Archive

enhancement has to enhance SOMETHING

as per spell

Magic Vestment

School transmutation; Level cleric/oracle 3, inquisitor 3; Domain nobility 3, strength 3, war 3
CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
EFFECT

Range touch
Target armor or shield touched
Duration 1 hour/level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless, object); Spell Resistance yes (harmless, object)

DESCRIPTION

You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.

clothes give 0 AC. then the enhancement kicks in. its one or the other. #= enhanced shirt doesnt stack with bracers +1

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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Artanthos wrote:

The robes would be a +5 enhancement bonus. The same kind of bonus you receive when you enchant chainmail or full plate.

+2 leather armor provides a +4 armor bonus, not a +2 armor bonus and a +2 enhancement bonus. This is because the +2 enhancement bonus is applied to the armor's armor bonus, not directly to the wearer's armor class.


With celestial armor you would have a total AC bonus of +15.
Bracers of armor +8 means that you would need to have a Dexterity of 26 before the bracers would offer a better total AC bonus, and even then you are paying some 40,000 gp more for the bracers of armor.

if you were to use my composite armors from above (made with the piece mail armor rules) and made it out of mithral you could have +5 Elite Shock Trooper Armor to have +14 armor bonus and +6 max Dex bonus (with a fighter +10 max Dex).

That is a combine AC bonus of +20 -- so you would need a Dex of 36 before the bracers of armor would be a better choice (8+13=21 AC bonus).

For a fighter with armor training you need a total Dex of 34 before the bracers offer more AC in celestial armor, and a 42 Dex with the mithral elite shock trooper armor before bracers would be a better choice.


worked it out and paid 9000g for +1 chain with all of the other qualities of celestial armor except for the flight.

works for my Xreylle and fits the game.

while walking through the market Xreylle overheard several other people discussing the merits of various forms of AC... one included shrinking down to the size of a cat in order to hit more often and be harder to hit... another involved running around in a drafty robe and wearing magic forearm protectors.

Xreylle shook her head and wondered why they could not simply value the look and feel of cold protective metal. of course... that would require the others to enjoy something other than stats and breaking the system.

Not that Xreylle was judging them... but she wondered why they didn't just go play WOW.


tried to edit this but its been too long.

not trying to insult any one. just teasing on the issue

Grand Lodge

Name Violation wrote:
also i didnt think celestial chain is mithral

It isn't. The suit is specifically stated to be made of gold or silver.

Typically, when I'm allowed to, I take the enchantment on it, and slap it onto a mithral full plate. Makes it stay light armor, because we assume the enchantment reduces the category by 1, weight by half, armor check penalty by 2 (not including the masterwork/magic), and increases max dex by 6. Leaving me with a +2 full plate with a max dex of 9, an armor check penalty of 1, and a ridiculous AC.

Scarab Sages

Ross Byers wrote:
Artanthos wrote:

The robes would be a +5 enhancement bonus. The same kind of bonus you receive when you enchant chainmail or full plate.

+2 leather armor provides a +4 armor bonus, not a +2 armor bonus and a +2 enhancement bonus. This is because the +2 enhancement bonus is applied to the armor's armor bonus, not directly to the wearer's armor class.

That would be a very dangerous ruling when combined with piecemeal armor. Your telling people they can increase the AC bonus of each segment. A decision that people will back up by pointing out that shield and armor enhancement bonuses already stack.

Shadow Lodge

Artanthos wrote:
That would be a very dangerous ruling when combined with piecemeal armor. Your telling people they can increase the AC bonus of each segment. A decision that people will back up by pointing out that shield and armor enhancement bonuses already stack.

That's when the GM should simply say "No."


from the Ultimate Combat book
take this

Haramaki

and from the Advanced Players guide add the
Armored Kilt to it

it will be considered medium armor

but what it has is
NO arcane spell failure at all
AC 2
dex ac 6
and no armor check penelty
and enchantable to anything you want

what its good for:
rogues need Armor Proficiency, Medium (Combat) feet
Eldritch Knights
MAgus
rangers
ninjas need Armor Proficiency, Medium (Combat)feet

Scarab Sages

Kthulhu wrote:


That's when the GM should simply say "No."

I'm not disagreeing with you.

I'm simply pointing out the logical conclusion of ruling that enchanting armor increases the base armor of an item instead of acting as a non-stacking bonus to armor of the enhancement type. (which is how RAW currently reads according to the links I posted earlier).

There is nothing I can do about the power creep introduced with piecemeal armor rules. People are already breaking down armor into sections and applying special material properties on a per piece basis. In another few months, very few of the min/max crowd will be using any of the weapons or armor from the core rules.


course.... could just not allow the piece by piece rules.

the rule is clearly optional, just like hero points and Armor as DR.


Absolutely, however as an option I did want to present it since you were looking for options.


on a side note... does any one have any idea how much the +dex should cost. I mean.. suppose I wanted to craft plate armor with a higher max dex. how much should the crafting cost?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Banpai wrote:

I have to point out that, while shiny the celestial armor is in fact not hade of mithril, if the magic is dispelled or supressed its a chainshirt with max dex 4.

All the specific armors where once priced with a lot of guessing and tweaking, to find a good place for the item in terms of power and price. RAW as far as I know is that they can´t be ugraded from +3 to +4, but most DMs I know will allow the upgrade.

The same is true for something like a holy avenger or a sun blade.

Excuse me, but this is not true.

The magic of the suit is that it is +3 and grants the fly spell. There is no magic on it making it light armor and with a +8 max dex. Go on, look for it. It's not there.

Basically, you can pretty much assume the extra +7700 gp is the material cost for whatever it is made of. If you dispel a celestial chain shirt, it's still a chain shirt with lower check penalty, light armor, and +8 max dex. If it magic on it to raise the dex limit, like, say, the Nimbleness Enhancement, it would be spelled out.

===Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:
Banpai wrote:

I have to point out that, while shiny the celestial armor is in fact not hade of mithril, if the magic is dispelled or supressed its a chainshirt with max dex 4.

All the specific armors where once priced with a lot of guessing and tweaking, to find a good place for the item in terms of power and price. RAW as far as I know is that they can´t be ugraded from +3 to +4, but most DMs I know will allow the upgrade.

The same is true for something like a holy avenger or a sun blade.

Excuse me, but this is not true.

The magic of the suit is that it is +3 and grants the fly spell. There is no magic on it making it light armor and with a +8 max dex. Go on, look for it. It's not there.

Basically, you can pretty much assume the extra +7700 gp is the material cost for whatever it is made of. If you dispel a celestial chain shirt, it's still a chain shirt with lower check penalty, light armor, and +8 max dex. If it magic on it to raise the dex limit, like, say, the Nimbleness Enhancement, it would be spelled out.

===Aelryinth

It's specifically made of gold or silver. Also, Chainmail's max dex is rather low, even adding Mithral to it does not cut the mustard.Also, I'm pretty sure the Celestial armor is cheaper than it has any right to be.


I never assume celestial armor to be ACTUALLY made of silver or gold. only that it appears to have a silver or gold color. hell... it could reasonably be made of ultra fine adamantium.

aelryinth is right the non magical max dex bonus is inherent to the armor and my question was basicaly how to properly price that.

however the more I think of it I am begining to feel that it should not be something you can just attach a price to. doing so will remove a lot of the armor balancing of the game. I mean... If I can make heavy armor and just pay money to give it high dex and count as light armor then whats the point of differing armors at high levels?


We don't know where the max dex bonus comes from, for all we know it could be a typo, but the fact of the matter is this: somehow, some way, the Celestial Armor has a max dex 6 points higher than a suit of ordinary chainmail, and nothing in the game, within the rules, creates that much of a change in the maximum dex modifier on ANY suit.

Whatever changes the amount of dex the suit of armor has, also changes the other uses of the suit. Keep in mind that there are actually rules on having a gold suit of armor, though it's not entirely clear if those rules are in play, presumably the enchantment overcomes it.


BTW, Celestial Armor is not made of mithril.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If your GM will allow it, I'm pretty sure there is an armor ability from 3.5's "Magic Item Compendium" that increases a suit of armor's max dex bonus (and also decreases the armor check penalty). If I remember correctly, it doesn't even cost you an extra +1, it is just an extra expense, but I could be mistaken.

I actually have a quasi-related question for you magic item expense gurus: I have a suit of +1 Studded Leather Armor. I would like *one* particular ability from 3.5's "Hawkfeather Armor." It is a suit of +1 Studded Leather Armor that allows one to Fly (as the spell) 3 times a day, for *only* 5 rounds each time. It also has some other decent features, but they don't really interest me. Is there any method by the RAW, or by the Rules as Implied, (by "rules" I do mean Pathfinder, naturally) to add that limited flight ability to my existing suit of +1 Studded Leather, without adding the other--unrelated--features? (This also appears in the Magic Item Compendium, among other places). Under the old rules, this suit with all of its abilities costs just over 12,000gp, which sounds about right, but I'm not sure how to cherry pick the limited flight power in a way that complies with Pathfinder.

Can anyone point to something in the rules, or give me a ballpark idea what it would cost to upgrade my current armor with this one ability? I guess it would start by figuring in use of the "Fly" spell, but then should be discounted for the 5 round flight limit. (Albeit, 3x/day).

Can anyone help?


Parade armorP 25 gp +3 +5 -1 15% 30 ft. 20 ft. 20 lbs.

add Mitharal

Parade ArmorSource Adventurer's Armory 5

Description
Most wealthy countries with standing armies have a different uniform for use in showy noncombat situations such as parades, coronation ceremonies, and so on. The appearance of this armor varies by the country of origin and the branch of the military, but still provides some protection in case the soldier needs to fight while in parade dress (for example, the parade armor of the Eagle Knights of Andoran is a blue coat reinforced with light chain, white breeches, and thick blue leather boots). If you’re wearing a country’s parade armor, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to influence a person from that country.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Kelvar Silvermace wrote:

If your GM will allow it, I'm pretty sure there is an armor ability from 3.5's "Magic Item Compendium" that increases a suit of armor's max dex bonus (and also decreases the armor check penalty). If I remember correctly, it doesn't even cost you an extra +1, it is just an extra expense, but I could be mistaken.

I actually have a quasi-related question for you magic item expense gurus: I have a suit of +1 Studded Leather Armor. I would like *one* particular ability from 3.5's "Hawkfeather Armor." It is a suit of +1 Studded Leather Armor that allows one to Fly (as the spell) 3 times a day, for *only* 5 rounds each time. It also has some other decent features, but they don't really interest me. Is there any method by the RAW, or by the Rules as Implied, (by "rules" I do mean Pathfinder, naturally) to add that limited flight ability to my existing suit of +1 Studded Leather, without adding the other--unrelated--features? (This also appears in the Magic Item Compendium, among other places). Under the old rules, this suit with all of its abilities costs just over 12,000gp, which sounds about right, but I'm not sure how to cherry pick the limited flight power in a way that complies with Pathfinder.

Can anyone point to something in the rules, or give me a ballpark idea what it would cost to upgrade my current armor with this one ability? I guess it would start by figuring in use of the "Fly" spell, but then should be discounted for the 5 round flight limit. (Albeit, 3x/day).

Can anyone help?

You are indeed mistaken. I just looked through the base magic of the MIC and there is no magic property to increase the Dex mod and lower the penalty.

The nearest thing I can think of is the Nimbleness enhancement, which isn't in the MIC, which was a +1 Enhancement that increased the dex limit by 2, I believe.

STILL not as good as celestial armor. Although it might be very, very close to the equal of mithral armor +4.

For your Hawkfeather property, you'd price a level 2 flight spell x 3 uses a day x 5th level, since its duration is so much shorter then a normal spell. Or, you could just figure it as a level 5 caster, with the duration split up.

==Aelryinth


@Aelryinth : it was only a +1 to the dex modifier.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Aelryinth wrote:

You are indeed mistaken. I just looked through the base magic of the MIC and there is no magic property to increase the Dex mod and lower the penalty.

The nearest thing I can think of is the Nimbleness enhancement, which isn't in the MIC, which was a +1 Enhancement that increased the dex limit by 2, I believe.

STILL not as good as celestial armor. Although it might be very, very close to the equal of mithral armor +4.

For your Hawkfeather property, you'd...

/Best Emperor Palpatine voice I can muster--"*Actually* it is *you* who are mistaken about a great many things!" /Voice

Ahem. Well, I was wrong on only one point--it *does* cost you an extra +1 to your armor. However, on page 13 of the 3.5 Magic Item Compendium (First Printing, March 2007), I clearly see the Nimbleness enhancement, right between "Mobility" and "Quickness."

Nimbleness
Price: +1 bonus
Property: Armor
Caster Level: 8th
Aura: Moderate; (DC 19) transmutation
Activation: --

(Flavor text) "This suit of armor looks much less restrictive than others of its type."
(Description) "A suit of armor that has this property has a maximum Dexterity bonus 1 higher than normal, *and* its armor check penalty is reduced by 2."

Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, cat's grace.
Cost to Create: Varies.

So, there *is* such a property, it *is* in the MIC, it *does* increase the maximum dex mod and *does* decrease the armor check penalty. It may not be what the OP is looking for, or as good as other suggestions, but I do think it sounds like a fairly useful property, especially for a lot of Dex-based characters.

As for your suggestions on pricing that Hawkfeather property (and I'll note you were the only one to try to help me on this so far--so thank you!), I'm curious why you'd price it as a level 2 flight spell when (to my knowledge) there *is* no second level flight spell. Right? As for figuring it as a fifth level caster using the "Fly" spell, with the duration split up, I'm pretty sure that the duration is a minute per level--so by the time, say, a wizard, can cast it, he gets 5 minutes right out of the gate. Even if I assumed only 3 minutes, divided up evenly, this is still much longer than 5 rounds at a time (and thus more expensive!)

Am I just being obtuse here? Can anyone do the math (and show your work!)?

BTW--is there anything comparable to the Nimbleness property in the Pathfinder rules? (Where else have you seen it printed?) What about Hawkfeather Armor?

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Ah, dagnabit, you are correct. I was actually looking for any name OTHER then Nimbleness. Fah. I stand corrected. And it's sitting right next to me, too...

I'd call the effect of the armor a 'sudden flight' spell, which would be about level 2. I'd note that 5 rounds is often long enough to last an entire fight, and 60' move with the ability to ignore terrain is a strong effect. So even though it doesn't last as long as levitate, figuring it at a 2nd level spell should work just fine. basically, it's fly at 1 rd/level, instead of 1 minute/level, which makes it one level lower.

===Aelryinth


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ahh! You make a great point, Aelryinth! I'll crack open the rules and see if I can price this ability.

Thanks!!

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