Bestiary 4 Wish List


Product Discussion

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Threeshades wrote:

You want a Vouivre?

Just take the wyvern entry from Bestiary 1 and change the Languages from "Draconic" to "French".

Please start buying yourself some Ap's please.

Vouive in pathfinder isn't a wyvern at all, so there isn't much to wish for as Vouivre is already in pathfinder, I just want another picture of it as the current one is not really pretty.


Yeah i suppose, after making british demons different from american ones, and german mandrakes different from english ones, I suppose there is no reason to stop at french wyverns.


Look at devas and divs. Or the gorgon and the medusa.


Well Alraune (the german mandrake) is my alltime favorite monster of pathfinder.

So I kinda hope they spoil up much more mythological roots.

Gorgons are also my favorites, and this is a game, not mythology in its purest form, as that would be the case we would only have 1 medusa, 1 minotaur and 1 of all creatures. Very boring.

I'm happy with Vouivre and Alraune taking the Castlevania road, I hope to see Vouivre and Ukobach (both in their Castlevania forms) soon in bestiary 4.

Also Maneater from castlevania would be sweet, the skull with three carnivorous red worms living in it.


I am hoping we will get...

True Dragons(5)
Lesser Dragons(at least 7)
Fey(20+)
True Giants(4-7)
Trolls(at least 2)
Other Giant type(3+)
Elementals(10+)
Angels(4+)
Azatas(3+)
Agathions(3+)
Archons(2+)
Proteons(4+)
Inevitables(3+)
Aeons(3+)
Azura(3+)
Oni(6+)
Demons(0-1)
Devils(0-1)
Kytons(1-2)
Daemons(0-1)
Rakshasa(2-3)
Qlippoths(3-5)
Hags(at least 3)
Sphinx(2-3)
Golems(4-7)
Robots(2-5)
0HD races(5-8)
Familiars(3+)
Familiars(improved)(5+)
Cryptids(5+)
Lovecraft(6+)
Plants(10+)
Lamia(2-4)
Animal companions(5+)
Incorporeal non-undead(2-3)
Non-humaniod undead(at least 5)
Swarms(2-4)
Non-animal/vermin Swarms(at least 3))
Giant animals(5+)
Giant Vermin(6+)
Oozes(7-10)
Non-evil Aberrations(2-3)


True Dragons(5)
Lesser Dragons(if you mean dragons like jabberwock, peluda and zomok with this I hope 10, if you mean drakes I hope 0)
Fey(20+)
True Giants(3)
Trolls(0)
Other Giant type(3+)
Elementals(0 or it must be unique elementals, but not fire elementals and such)
Angels(4+)
Azatas(3+)
Agathions(3+)
Archons(2+)
Proteons(4+)
Inevitables(0)
Aeons(0)
Azura(3+)
Oni(Only the Tengu and Kitsune oni)
Demons(7)
Devils(7)
Kytons(1-2)
Daemons(2 Phasmadaemon and Seugodaemon)
Rakshasa(0)
Qlippoths(2)
Hags(at least 3)
Sphinx(0)
Golems(3)
Robots(0)
0HD races(0)
Familiars(0)
Familiars(improved)(0)
Cryptids(20)
Lovecraft(6)
Plants(15)
Lamia(0)
Animal companions(0)
Incorporeal non-undead(2-3)
Non-humaniod undead(at least 5)
Swarms(2-4)
Non-animal/vermin Swarms(at least 3))
Giant Vermin(6+ Assassin Bug and Earwig at least)
Oozes(7-10 but none copies, like the garden ooze was really unnessesairy)
Neutral Aberrations(5)
Evil Aberrations (14)
Good Aberrations (0)

Dinosaurs (4 or 6)
Megafauna (4 or 6)
Magical Beasts (40+)
Genie (2 light and dark)
Div (5)
Monstrous Humanoids (10)
Tane (Like bandersnatch and Sard) (4)
Behemoth (0)
Non-Golem/Robot Constructs (10)
Azi (o)
Non-humanoid Outsiders (like cerberi/baregara/nightmare) (10)
Clockwork (1 = Dragon)
Demodand (0)


Back-pedalling to fomorians (and in honor of St Patrick's Day), I was reading what Wikipedia said about them to see how we could do them justice. Just from a glance, they have a lot in common with the titans in terms of having divine powers as well as being primordial gods of chaos and the wild. I think that we could make then either native outsiders or possibly fey. My only issue with fey is the d6 Hit Dice they get. Seems low for a giant creature. I suppose we can give them Toughness or high Constitution scores to make up for only getting 3 HP every level. Another issue I'd have is them getting a slow BAB progression. I imagine the Fomorian giants to be better at wielding weapons and such since they were regarded as sea raiders. I think the best way to do this is to make them native outsiders and give them a couple of fey traits to have them match the fluff a bit more. Maybe even have them count as fey for effects that would affect fey, such as bane or the ranger's Favored Enemy.

Secondly, they should have some connection to the wild. I imagine they'd have some druid spells and abilities they could cast that would tie well with being a primordial of nature. Additionally, fomorians were seafarers and marauders so I'm sure there could be something done with that. Perhaps an affinity to sea and weather magic. Control weather would be really cool to see, as would ride the waves and even chaos hammer.

Finally, I could see the fomorians split up into different types. I feel that they would be in the high single digits to mid teens for CR and probably wouldn't have a "familiar" version of themselves like other creatures would. They seem to have varied descriptions and of them, I like the goat headed one and Elatha, the one that was regarded as being very beautiful. Balor was cool in that he had a single eye that could poison people. I think we could make something out of these three. I figure the beautiful fomorian would be called the Elathan Fomorian and, being named after the king of said legend, would be the most powerful. Maybe make them have full druid spell-casting. I looked up the goat-headed fomorian and they seem to be called the Gabor-chind. I could see them being the 'lesser' fomorians. As for the one-eyed fomorians with a poisonous eye, I'm unsure what we could name them since it's based on the fomorian Balor and we already have a demon called that.

That's what Ive come up with in terms of them. I'm sure we can brainstorm some more ideas.


Tane(4+)
Dinosaurs(4-6)
Megafauna(4-6)
Behemoths(1-2)
Div(1-4)
Demodand(1 familiar)
Magical Beast(20-40)
Monstrous Humaniods(10+)
Non-humaniod outsiders(7-11)
Clockwork creatures(1-4)
Non-golem/robot/clockwork constructs(5-10)
Genies(1-2)
Titans(at least 2)
Leshy(5-6)
Templates(2-4)

Lesser dragons are any creature with the dragon type that is not classified as a true dragon.


Odraude wrote:

Back-pedalling to fomorians (and in honor of St Patrick's Day), I was reading what Wikipedia said about them to see how we could do them justice. Just from a glance, they have a lot in common with the titans in terms of having divine powers as well as being primordial gods of chaos and the wild. I think that we could make then either native outsiders or possibly fey. My only issue with fey is the d6 Hit Dice they get. Seems low for a giant creature. I suppose we can give them Toughness or high Constitution scores to make up for only getting 3 HP every level. Another issue I'd have is them getting a slow BAB progression. I imagine the Fomorian giants to be better at wielding weapons and such since they were regarded as sea raiders. I think the best way to do this is to make them native outsiders and give them a couple of fey traits to have them match the fluff a bit more. Maybe even have them count as fey for effects that would affect fey, such as bane or the ranger's Favored Enemy.

Secondly, they should have some connection to the wild. I imagine they'd have some druid spells and abilities they could cast that would tie well with being a primordial of nature. Additionally, fomorians were seafarers and marauders so I'm sure there could be something done with that. Perhaps an affinity to sea and weather magic. Control weather would be really cool to see, as would ride the waves and even chaos hammer.

Finally, I could see the fomorians split up into different types. I feel that they would be in the high single digits to mid teens for CR and probably wouldn't have a "familiar" version of themselves like other creatures would. They seem to have varied descriptions and of them, I like the goat headed one and Elatha, the one that was regarded as being very beautiful. Balor was cool in that he had a single eye that could poison people. I think we could make something out of these three. I figure the beautiful fomorian would be called the Elathan Fomorian and, being named after the...

I like most of the ideas for Fomorians mentioned here. The more I think about it, the more I think they shouldn't be described as giants. Firbolgs yes, But Formorian would be better as a new creature type or as a subtype of Fey.

I would keep the primal force of nature, but play up the the more chaotic angle of it. In myth, the Fomor were driven into the sea by the Tuatha. Maybe in the First World something similar happened, with the Fey driving the Fomor into the sea or the dark reaches of the First World, leading to a change in the First World from being a chaotic, disorganized dark realm of ideas and shapes, to state more resembling idealized nature that our mortal world has.

In this case, Fomor would rule the seas and islands of the First World, and strike frequently against the Fey, in a constant bid to regain control of the First World and remake it in their image.

As for variety, yes, there should be different types, although it's a bit sad that many creatures that would make good Fomor have been statted up as Fey or other beasts. There should be a large-sized brute enforcer, Gaborchend being more cannon fodder versions. They also shouldn't necessarily be shoehorned into evil (we have more than enough evil only outsiders), but should have a range of alignments, most tending towards evil with no lawful good.


MMCJawa wrote:
Odraude wrote:

Back-pedalling to fomorians (and in honor of St Patrick's Day), I was reading what Wikipedia said about them to see how we could do them justice. Just from a glance, they have a lot in common with the titans in terms of having divine powers as well as being primordial gods of chaos and the wild. I think that we could make then either native outsiders or possibly fey. My only issue with fey is the d6 Hit Dice they get. Seems low for a giant creature. I suppose we can give them Toughness or high Constitution scores to make up for only getting 3 HP every level. Another issue I'd have is them getting a slow BAB progression. I imagine the Fomorian giants to be better at wielding weapons and such since they were regarded as sea raiders. I think the best way to do this is to make them native outsiders and give them a couple of fey traits to have them match the fluff a bit more. Maybe even have them count as fey for effects that would affect fey, such as bane or the ranger's Favored Enemy.

Secondly, they should have some connection to the wild. I imagine they'd have some druid spells and abilities they could cast that would tie well with being a primordial of nature. Additionally, fomorians were seafarers and marauders so I'm sure there could be something done with that. Perhaps an affinity to sea and weather magic. Control weather would be really cool to see, as would ride the waves and even chaos hammer.

Finally, I could see the fomorians split up into different types. I feel that they would be in the high single digits to mid teens for CR and probably wouldn't have a "familiar" version of themselves like other creatures would. They seem to have varied descriptions and of them, I like the goat headed one and Elatha, the one that was regarded as being very beautiful. Balor was cool in that he had a single eye that could poison people. I think we could make something out of these three. I figure the beautiful fomorian would be called the Elathan Fomorian and, being named after the king of said legend, would be the most powerful. Maybe make them have full druid spell-casting. I looked up the goat-headed fomorian and they seem to be called the Gabor-chind. I could see them being the 'lesser' fomorians. As for the one-eyed fomorians with a poisonous eye, I'm unsure what we could name them since it's based on the fomorian Balor and we already have a demon called that.

That's what Ive come up with in terms of them. I'm sure we can brainstorm some more ideas.

I like most of the ideas for Fomorians mentioned here. The more I think about it, the more I think they shouldn't be described as giants. Firbolgs yes, But Formorian would be better as a new creature type or as a subtype of Fey.

I would keep the primal force of nature, but play up the the more chaotic angle of it. In myth, the Fomor were driven into the sea by the Tuatha. Maybe in the First World something similar happened, with the Fey driving the Fomor into the sea or the dark reaches of the First World, leading to a change in the First World from being a chaotic, disorganized dark realm of ideas and shapes, to state more resembling idealized nature that our mortal world has.

In this case, Fomor would rule the seas and islands of the First World, and strike frequently against the Fey, in a constant bid to regain control of the First World and remake it in their image.

As for variety, yes, there should be different types, although it's a bit sad that many creatures that would make good Fomor have been statted up as Fey or other beasts. There should be a large-sized brute enforcer, Gaborchend being more cannon fodder versions. They also shouldn't necessarily be shoehorned into evil (we have more than enough evil only outsiders), but should have a range of alignments, most tending towards evil with no lawful good.

Yeah I can dig them being attached to the First World. The only issue is that if we make them the Fey type, we'd have to compensate for the lower hit die and BAB. I feel that a giant-like creature should have a lot of health and be pretty good with attacking people, especially since the Fomorians were sea raiders. Perhaps making them a Monstrous Humanoid with the Extraplanar subtype and some fey traits thrown in there?


well...there is a range of Fomor..not all were described as Giants

I thing the easiest solution then would be simply to make a new creature type, like Outsider - Fomor.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Can we have a monster based on pollen allergies?

With a face. That can be punched.

Forever.


I would rather have fomorians as giants or fey but never outsiders.


I think that since they have a divine part to them and are analogues to the titans, I could really see them being Outsiders with some special Fey-like traits. But, to reflect their tie to nature, I'd make them have the native subtype.


native subtype would be good

I wonder if you could just make them a subtype of Fey and use that to explain the differences in stats from say a normal Fey. I definitely think they should have some sort of unique type to categorize them.


MMCJawa wrote:

native subtype would be good

I wonder if you could just make them a subtype of Fey and use that to explain the differences in stats from say a normal Fey. I definitely think they should have some sort of unique type to categorize them.

It'd be quite a change from fey to its subtype. I think you'd be better off just giving the native outsider some fey traits. A good example of this is the troll. Troll are fey but because they require more hit points and a higher BAB, they are instead monstrous humanoids.

You could easily give them some of the Class Skills and spell-like abilities that give the fey flavor, while keeping it a Native Outsider or Monstrous Humanoid.


I think Pathfinder keeps its hands from Fomorians because they play such an enormous imporant role in D&D 4th edition.


Trolls are humanoid(giant) not monstrous humanoid and we have more then enough outsiders. If you want to give them fey "flavor" then just make them fey. Also just because something is touched by the divine doesn't mean it is always an outsider, gods in pathfinder have not been given a creature type and can be anything. I also doubt that pathfinder will use the "titan origin" since the titans already have that one covered.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:

Can we have a monster based on pollen allergies?

With a face. That can be punched.

Forever.

Being one of those fortunate people who doesn't really have any serious allergies* I can't say I fully understand you, but nevertheless: *chortles*

*:
I get rashes if I pick strawberries, but I can eat them, so that's basically an advantage in life rather than a handicap.


The origin of Titans is actually a bit different from myth. In Pathfinder, The majority of Titans rebelled against the gods and were thrown into the Abyss, thinking they were more powerful and more worthy of worship.

I don't think that is at all similar to what me and Odraude are proposing, which follows more along the lines of what happened in Greek myth, with Fomor representing more primal dangerous forces of nature that were later overthrown by the the Fey in the First World.


Dragon78 wrote:
Trolls are humanoid(giant) not monstrous humanoid and we have more then enough outsiders. If you want to give them fey "flavor" then just make them fey. Also just because something is touched by the divine doesn't mean it is always an outsider, gods in pathfinder have not been given a creature type and can be anything. I also doubt that pathfinder will use the "titan origin" since the titans already have that one covered.

You're right on the troll part. I still think trolls should be monstrous humanoids.

The reason I don't want to make them fey is because stat-wise, fey don't make very good front-line fighters. And looking at the background of fomorians, they were warriors and pirates. It'd make little sense for marauders to have the hit die and BAB of a wizard, no? That's why I feel it is easier to add Fey traits to it, much like how Paizo added some Construct traits to the Inevitables to show off that they are outsiders AND have construct traits.

As for divinely touched giants, look no further than the Nephilim. In the Bestiary, they have close ties to the divine since they are the offspring of demigods and people. In actual mythology, they are the offspring of angels and people and were giants. So I feel that if these guys can be native outsiders, then so can the fomorians, especially since fomorians are divine.

And for titans, I was only stating that they were a good analogue for the fomorians because of their primordial nature. However, I like the idea of them being the primordial nature beings of the First World and the Material plane. Mostly because the hardcovers assume setting neutral and not everyone has a Feywild/First World.


If they were from the first world they would not be outsiders but they could be fey, giant, monstrous humanoid, plant, or even magical beast.


Dragon78 wrote:
If they were from the first world they would not be outsiders but they could be fey, giant, monstrous humanoid, plant, or even magical beast.

Jabberwocky is a dragon and part of the First World. In addition, linnorms live in the First World as well. So if there is room for all of that there, I don't think it's a stretch to see a native outsider with fey traits in there. Honestly, it is another separate dimension and if outsiders can fit into the Shadow Plane, the Energy Planes, and the Elemental Planes, then surely it's not a stretch to say you can find them in the First World.

And honestly, I kind of prefer them to be tied to the Material Plane, but with Fey World attachments. But again, a lot of this ties to the fact that if fomorians were of the Fey subtype, they'd be much weaker martially than their folklore suggests. And I think that would be a bigger disservice than making them Native Outsiders.


For Fomorians, I just took cave giants and changed them to monstrous humanoids and gave them the resistances that all creatures in the spiritworld of my game have (cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5, +4 Will vs. enchantment). If they have any magical powers, then it's from their oracles.


Well with all this Fomorian and Firbolg talk i'm 100% sure they will come in bestiary 4.

Now talk about more rare creatures so much, maybe they come to bestiary 4 as wel.


Fomorians are nothing like dragons that is why I listed Fey, Giants, Monstrous Humanoids, Plants, or even Magical Beast , even if those last two are unlikely, as possible choices. Fey is a type not a subtype if anything outsider should have been a subtype though we have the extra planar subtype already.

Well after this long wait we better get a Bestiary 4.

Also Sincubus has a point, we need to talk about the Firbolg as well. While they used to be giants in past additions having them as fey that only look like giants would be interesting.


I think I am actually okay with the Firbolg being first world giants. Really the Fomor are described with a variety of appearances, and my "Time Life Enchanted World" series has a painting of them in battle with the Tuatha, where they are the same size.

In contrast, most depictions/descriptions of Firbolg I have seen still paint them as giants, albit not as huge as many depictions


I hope to see more creatures from mythology that AREN"T used by D&D.

Cherufe (while it appears in so many series and cartoons)Buggane, Lampade, Argus, Mahaha and Batibat being most notable for now.

while most mythogoly creatures got their own model/story they are still also found in D&D somewhere, I first thought Redcaps, Vodyanoi, Wendigo, Fachen, Rusalki, mothmen, Nuckalevee, Rokurokubi and Valkyrie (some examples) were only found in pathfinder, well they all have some appearance in D&D as wel...

I want more Gashadokuro, Grindylow, Bakekujira, Kongamato and Alraune.
Creatures that never made it in ANY D&D product.


Dragon78 wrote:

Fomorians are nothing like dragons that is why I listed Fey, Giants, Monstrous Humanoids, Plants, or even Magical Beast , even if those last two are unlikely, as possible choices. Fey is a type not a subtype if anything outsider should have been a subtype though we have the extra planar subtype already.

Well after this long wait we better get a Bestiary 4.

Also Sincubus has a point, we need to talk about the Firbolg as well. While they used to be giants in past additions having them as fey that only look like giants would be interesting.

I think you missed my entire point about the dragons comparison. My point is, there are a lot of monsters that are considered fey or faeries but aren't of the actual Fey type. Trolls, goblins, kobolds, dwarves, elves, grindylow, merrow, undines... I could honestly keep going. Yet, some of these, like trolls, are still tied to the First World. I know trolls definitely are because of both the First World gazetteer as well as the second adventure of Jade Regent. Hell, trolls are probably my key example here, as they are considered fairies in folklore. But because they are more martial characters, and thus require the hit die and BAB to be martial characters, they are Humanoids. A d6 and slow BAB progression doesn't cut it for more martially adept characters like the fomorians. One could still give them the skills and abilities of the fey and it would honestly work. And again, they were divine creatures that were worshipped and the Irish analogue to the titans. In my opinion, giving them a wizard's hit die and BAB AND ignoring their divine status in folklore would underscore their martial prowess and would be a huge disservice to the mythology and frankly, be pretty disappointing to those of use that are huge folklore enthusiasts.

Fomorians aside...

Argus would be cool. I could see him as a mid-teens CR giant. Besides all-around vision, what other abilities could he have? Perhaps some kind of natural ability to scry unimpeded, to play off his ever-watching protector role?


Sincubus wrote:

I hope to see more creatures from mythology that AREN"T used by D&D.

Cherufe (while it appears in so many series and cartoons)Buggane, Lampade, Argus, Mahaha and Batibat being most notable for now.

while most mythogoly creatures got their own model/story they are still also found in D&D somewhere, I first thought Redcaps, Vodyanoi, Wendigo, Fachen, Rusalki, mothmen, Nuckalevee, Rokurokubi and Valkyrie (some examples) were only found in pathfinder, well they all have some appearance in D&D as wel...

I want more Gashadokuro, Grindylow, Bakekujira, Kongamato and Alraune.
Creatures that never made it in ANY D&D product.

Wanted to throw my two cents in for the Cherufe. From what I can read. it's a large snake/dragon made of magma and rocks and the cause of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. It's also a cryptid that is described as a reptilian humanoid/dragon that lives in volcanoes. Both are anthropophagus. I think it'd be interesting to cross the two lores, maybe make him have a CR in the higher single digits (CR 7-9), some lava-based attacks and an earthquake ability. Either a legitimate dragon or perhaps a magical beast? I'd personally love to see some more dragons from the New World. I don't think we have any.

What do you think?


I never heard of any of those.


They may be fey in myths but it is what they are classified in Pathfinder that matter and I will not ever except them as outsiders. Any creature can be worshipped so it's "type" doesn't matter, it's what the people that worship it think it can do that does. Also fey tend to have higher HD and ability scores to make up for these short comings but you are really obsessed with the numbers aspect. If you want warriors give then fighter levels.

I would love to have Argus as a giant, for once.

Dragons from western myths would be interesting


Yora - You should maybe search cryptid/monster/mythology/folklore sites a bit more, cuz Cherufe is pretty famous, well not as famous as the overused Dragon, Orc and Medusa, but less-famous creatures are so much more fun than overused stuff. New things are always welcome in my book. If we keep the overused stuff going we will never see something new.

And not knowing about Argus is just weird, cuz its a pretty famous greek mythology story, so go and search on google/wiki.

CHERUFE
I would like a non- reptilian Cherufe like the picture beneath, or maybe a real salamander-type cherufe, a salamander/monitor lizard made from lava being able to control vulcano's or create little vulcano's.

Cherufe

I think CR 14 (a cr that really's lacking big monsters as for now) having only the Leng Spider as big monster surrounded by Demi-lich, Rokurokubi and Worm That walks (all smaller and medium monsters) would be a good cr for it, as its a pretty powerful monsters being able to start volcano's.

I rather don't see it turn out a dragon, as we have a magma dragon already, of course cherufe is made from the more glowing hot lava.

I would like for it to be an outsider of some type, maybe fey, magical beast and maybe with the elemental/shapeshifter type on it.

For argus I would like to see it like this: Or something Similiar:

Argus

Argus2

His CR would be around 11/14 and it would have many sight abilities, maybe beholder-like rays and maybe being able to see the future and past at the same time, being able to see the enemies next move.

===

I would like to see a new dragon based on one of the 4 female dragons of greek mythology named Drakaina.

Maybe looking like the VOuivre from ADventure path or like this:

Kampe

There are four notable female dragons in greek mythology, Kampe, Echidna, Python and Delphyne.

Echidna should be a mythic creature, the others could be names for groups of creatures.

Kampe could be the new Vouivre model user.

Python I don't know about it has so many forms in greek mythology it can be anything.

Delphyne could be a eyeless wyvern which tail ends in the torso/arms/head of a beautiful woman, flying the wyvern-like-creature would bend its tail foreward so the woman is its sight.

===

Of course I want a plant dragon (like zomok) made from Ladon too, or ladon in any time would be sweet (except don't make it multi-headed, as we have many multiheaded dragons already) I like Ladon to be a plant/tree based dragon much like a Dryad Dragon, being a agressive nasty tempered protector of forest or maybe even dark forests or giant trees.


P.S female dragons could also be more dragon-like, maybe some deep dragon/purple dragon like appearance would suit a Drakaina more.

Another option for Argus is that it can see through the eyes of other creatures as wel, and also steal their eyes/sight.

For Hyakume (A japanese version of the Argus) I would like a less humanoid model to be used, not as oozy as Chaos Beasts and Shoggoths but more the way of Zelda's Slime Eye boss or this Skyrim God:

Hermaeus Mora


It seems to me that if you hate the idea of Fomorians being outsiders, it would be easier to just change there creature type in game, whereas beefing them up with fighter/barbarian levels requires much more work.

Again, not completely wedded to the idea of Formorians being outsiders, but I would prefer them not being all giants

Argus would be good...I would personally prefer a bit more humanoid-esq version. (not a fan of the face of the one Sincubus posted). Should be a Titan however. The ability to steal sight/see through others eyes is a good idea

I would prefer Cherufe to not be a dragon, since I think we already have magma dragons that fill a niche similar to that. I am thinking a large-size magma-like being with maybe a vaguely reptilian cast.


Argus as a titan, well wouldn't have a problem with that one. Well regardless of what type he is, having a gaze attack that targets all creatures in an aura like effect would be nasty let alone if he has beholder like eye rays.

Cherufe as a magma themed magical beast or even as an elemental would be fine by me.


Argus being a titan means it would be around 20CR, I think that would spoil Arguses, I think being around the same CR as other famous mythologic creatures is more ok for it, Medusa and Minotaur, Chimera and Hydra niveau.

And I like Argus to be disfigered and misshapen, as we have more than enough pretty looking giants already, and almost none misshapen.
Maybe Argus could be related to the Fomorian Race.

I would hate something like this to happen to argus, much too boring and plain:

Argus Spoiled

Cherufe being an elemental (full elemental) would mean its much too similiar to Magma Elemental maybe?

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I'd like to see some more "lifecycle monsters." What Colin McComb did with the Lurker in Misfit Monsters Redeemed was awesome, and I'd like to see more of the same; creatures that will not obviously be part of the same lifecycle, which can make for great "Aha!" moments in adventures.

I know it won't be in Bestiary 4, but I'd really, really love to see support for above-Colossal creatures. Really. They'll need their own rules addendum, but I don't care - it will be totally for awesome and needs to get done :)

I'd like to see more teamwork creatures like shocker lizards, legion devils (Fiendish Codex II), and scouring constructs (MM5). Things where the party runs across one or two, and your party's going "hey, that was easy," and then they run across 4 or 5, and go "hey, that was tough," and then they peer over the edge of the ravine, see several dozen, and say "let's get the hell outta here!"


There are already higher than Colossal creatures, the Zaratan (living island turtle/fish) is already bigger than the biggest godzilla creature.

They said that everything bigger than Gargantuan is called Colossal, there will never be bigger creatures.

I agree 100% about the team/teamwork creatures! More twin-based souls and twin monsters and also creatures that can merge together and have other powers when they are together, like some fire creature that makes fires more intense and the more fire creatures there are the hotter it will become.


Sincubus wrote:
I agree 100% about the team/teamwork creatures! More twin-based souls and twin monsters and also creatures that can merge together and have other powers when they are together, like some fire creature that makes fires more intense and the more fire creatures there are the hotter it will become.

The Dvati would be a great creature to get ^_^


What on earth is a Dvati? Never heard of them.


Sincubus wrote:
What on earth is a Dvati? Never heard of them.

A Dvati is essentially a single soul that has 2 identical bodies, similar to a Gemini. Your character has one sheet, but you control both bodies separately.

They were featured back in the late 1E/early 2E. They were never heard of again, until they reappeared in the Dragon Magazine Compendium, or in issue 271 of May 2000.

Their main quality is that you're playing 2 "characters" at once, each with half your total HP count. While ruling was a bit hazy, the creator himself, Talon Dunning, told players in the official WotC board, that each body has their own set of action, meaning that you essentially have 2 full rounds of action, as a player.

That causes a lot of confusion, because the Twin ability didn't detail EVERYTHING about it. It took a lot of clarification to point out that:
- both twins can take their own sets of action (one could make a full attack while the other could make a move action than attack, etc.)

- both twins must supply the verbal and somatic components for spells, although the spell originates for either twin, meaning that casting a spell requires both twins to take the same action.

- Any physical effect affects the twins separately and any mental effect affects the twins simultaneously. As such, slow would affect one twin at a time and poison would affect one twin at a time. Charm, however, affects both twins at once.

- both twins share item slots, so the player for instance can have 2 rings, but must decide which twin gets it, although there were ways to share item benefits via feats. This drawback did not apply to weapons and armors.

- both twins require their own equipments.

- if one twin dies, the other will shortly.

That's pretty much it for the Dvati.

I did a conversion topic a while back, feel free to check it out.


Yeah confusion a lot, but that's because its a 0HD race creatures, I don't want no playable race twins, I want monsters to be twins, in that way that confusion is deleted.

So pathfinder don't make that difficult-to-control-stuff frighten you, just use monsters as twin souls in that way it IS possible.


Spoiler:
In the newest AP there is this creature called Zorka, she's a Kikimora!!!! Too bad it is mentioned that she is taken from the Midgard Bestiary, a bestiary that isn't from Pathfinder at all, I really wish the Kikimora (and other creatuers used by non-pathfinder stuff like Jack in Irons and Bloody Bones) will be used in Bestiary 4 and get pathfinder artwork and stats.

Shadow Lodge

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Sincubus, the Midgard Bestiary is Pathfinder. It just isn't from Paizo.

In a somewhat related note, the newest Rana Reader (Frog God Games newsletter) announced that they will be putting out the Tome of Horrors 4...in full color! Both Pathfinder and Swords & Wizardry editions, of course!


I wouldn't hold out too much hope that creatures from the Midgard Bestiary and other 3pp will get new stats. Keep in mind that the main guy behind the Midgard Bestiary is at Paizo...I have to imagine Adam Daigle might get offended if Paizo decides to restat all of the creatures in his book just because they are 3rd party.

I am sure sometimes we will see that happen, either because the critter is from an obscure 3rd party source that the developers weren't aware of, the creature was poorly designed, or because Paizo has a very different interpretation of the creature. But the Midgard Bestiary is not obscure, keeps pretty close to the folkloric origins of the monsters, and overall seems to have pretty balanced mechanics.

Now, I would like to see a few creatures from 3pp sources included in Bestiary 4. Since I think that is a great way for Paizo to show there appreciation towards good 3rd party publishers and encourage people who might be skeptical to try Kobold Press, Jon Brazer Enterprises, or Alluria Publishing, amongst others.


Please tell me they asign the same artist as paizo uses!

And then I meant to say that Paizo needed to adopt the creatures full.


MMCJawa wrote:

I wouldn't hold out too much hope that creatures from the Midgard Bestiary and other 3pp will get new stats. Keep in mind that the main guy behind the Midgard Bestiary is at Paizo...I have to imagine Adam Daigle might get offended if Paizo decides to restat all of the creatures in his book just because they are 3rd party.

I am sure sometimes we will see that happen, either because the critter is from an obscure 3rd party source that the developers weren't aware of, the creature was poorly designed, or because Paizo has a very different interpretation of the creature. But the Midgard Bestiary is not obscure, keeps pretty close to the folkloric origins of the monsters, and overall seems to have pretty balanced mechanics.

Now, I would like to see a few creatures from 3pp sources included in Bestiary 4. Since I think that is a great way for Paizo to show there appreciation towards good 3rd party publishers and encourage people who might be skeptical to try Kobold Press, Jon Brazer Enterprises, or Alluria Publishing, amongst others.

No offence to the 3rd parties, but Kikimora, Bloody Bones and Jack in Irons are from real legends, so I hope to see them in full colour in paizo products, i'm very happy this happend to Kikimora, still I would have liked to see the kikimora in the same adventure paths bestiary as well, which didn't happen because it was already taken from a non paizo bestiary...

With creatures that are made up by the 3rd party (example corpsespinner) I think it would be strange to put them into a paizo bestiary, but creatures from real legends and D&D should be paizonized in my opinion. Mostly because the grey/white/black artwork, and paizo artwork mostly makes me love the creature even more.

Also paizo even puts creatures from its own products into the bestiary (example the creatures from misfit monsters and the extra bestiary with Axe Beak, Ant Lion and Nixie in it.) so why Kikimora and other such excisting legends shouldend be taken from the 3rd products and put into the bestiary 4.

And if not give the real legends a colour picture when you use them in the Adventure Path, in that way they are still usable and showable, just like the kikimora got.

All creatures from 3rd party products should get a picture when used in my opinion.


new artwork, sure I could get behind (although I think the Midgard Bestiary has good artwork, for the most part), but as far as stats, why redo the stats if someone else has done them and they are correct and flavorful?


More fluff and different versions of a myth are always good in my book, the more the marrier.

The Midgard Bestiary art may be good, but its grey/black/white art and not in full colour.

Ok, ok ok you got me its a money thing as well.
I can't keep up with all these non-paizo bestiaries that appear, I can't keep track as wel, I only collect the Paizo products.

If 3rd party products do all the cool creatures from real myths I can't keep track of them and mostly they end up with black/white art.

That's why I want all real mythology creatures in official pathfinder products/bestiaries.

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