The gist of it is that the DM is mid 20's but takes DM advice from people who use a lot house rules and misinterpret the rules all the time.
So we have results like. As a standard action the witch casts Sleep at a monster ("Because it was his time to shine", so the Witch said). The area effect of the sleep spell hits the party. The animal we are fighting has more than 5 hit die but we do not.
The 3 members of the party are put to sleep and the animal pulls a coup de grace on one of the characters (not the caster of the spell).
If it is for comic relief, or casualty the DM seems to be more than willing to bend/break rules. But when he feels that one player is too strong, he starts throwing things like CR4 monsters with 27 AC to slow down that player or ability damage monsters. His current target is the eidolon. So every monster has had damage reduction and ability damage dealing ability.
In short it seems like the DM is playing favorites but it is done in subtle ways.
I think somebody should point out that there is nothing inherently wrong with throwing out encounters that might challenge one character more than another, or that might allow one character to "shine" in certain situations. In fact, it's practically unavoidable, since parties are generally made up of all sorts of different characters with differing abilities.
The trick is to make sure everybody gets a turn being challenged, or "shining."
From this post, it seems to me that this is what he is doing, so I wouldn't necessarily admit this to evidence.
The other stuff is damning enough as it is. He shouldn't be relying on others to inform him of the rules; he should be reading the books. That's what they're there for.
My advice would be to take over as GM, or get a neutral (reliable - not one of the people giving him bad advice) party to GM, and have this GM be a player for while so he can see how this stuff is supposed to be run.
This is factually wrong. Ability drain can only be restored by Restoration ( Not Lesser ) and Greater Restoration ( and Wish/Limited Wish ). Ability damage can already be restored by Lesser Restoration.
I really hate the drain/negative penalty/reduction system...
Anyway
If this spell is used to dispel a permanent negative level, it has a material component of diamond dust worth 1,000 gp.
-So if its just fixing ability drain it shouldn't cost 1k gold.
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Oh please stop using AC for animal companion, AC is usually reserved for ARMOR CLASS, not animal companion.Wait... He wasn't talking about buffing his armor class?
No wonder that post didnt make any sense.
Good call. I was like, "What is a Druid casting divine favor on his armor class for?"
Then I drooled a bit, slapped my chest and fell off the fence.
I see you are as smug as your character profile, treantmonk, heck it even deserves 5 stars...blue if you will...
Oh please stop using AC for animal companion, AC is usually reserved for ARMOR CLASS, not animal companion.Wait... He wasn't talking about buffing his armor class?
No wonder that post didnt make any sense.
Good call. I was like, "What is a Druid casting divine favor on his armor class for?"
Then I drooled a bit, slapped my chest and fell off the fence.
Heh. Its actually a Cleric not a Druid ;). Because I think the buffs the Cleric can cast on his ACo are better than those of the Druid. Except for GMF that may be.
At lvl 9 you may use your Inspire Courage (+2 to hit/+2 to damage) together with your Righteous Might and a quickened Divine Favor on your ACo, while having cast a Magic Vestment (extended) on his MW Studded Leather Armor earlier.
This gives you an Huge Pouncing Tiger with about 0 cost. If you have no money this is about as good as it will get...
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Because I think the buffs the Cleric can cast on his ACo
Armor Class Zero?
Listen, I'm pretty sure the AC will have an armor class higher than zero. Especially if you buff the AC of the AC.
Or are you thinking of previous editions...THAC0?
...excuse me, I must fall off the fence again...
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If this spell is used to dispel a permanent negative level, it has a material component of diamond dust worth 1,000 gp.
-So if its just fixing ability drain it shouldn't cost 1k gold.
So according to the OP, just that summoners entire wealth.... (or double the wealth depending how you read the post.....)
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barbarian[Wild Rager]2/alchemist[Ragechemist]2 ... Feral Mutagen discovery
2 greatsword attacks.
1 bite attack.
2 toe claw attacks.
-- Break the game with a 20lbs mallet, and he'll let you play an "ordinary" fighter with a +3 sword again. Or dis-invite you.
(While I love the additional roleplaying of home games, the subtle drag toward being either a barbarian, paladin or a sorcerer due to lack of fund is constantly annoying.)
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The best class for arcane casters in a low magic world.
Witch or Sorcerer : They both will have a limited spell list. The Witch will have hexes to help. The Sorcerer will have exta spells.
The best class for divine caster in a low magic world.
Druid or Oracle of Battle : There ability to help in combat and heal after realy make them one of the better choices for divine casters.
Druid with there animal companion, and there spell list. Can realy multiplay there ability to work with the group. Oracle of Battle there ability to focus on combat with the help of there revelations. Make them one of the best reach weapon fighters. And puts them in a posion to help the group from the safty of the 2nd rank.
The best class for combat character.
Ranger or Paladin : The ability to heal your self even some in a low magic world is a big deal. Rangers help in switch hitters can do both range and melee combat. Along with there ability to not be seen, tracking, and there animal companion. Realy make them a very good choice. Paladin runs a close second. there ability to by pass DR with out needing a magic item, high saves, and very good healing. Make them a force in low magic worlds with being one of the few classes to buy pass DR.
The best class for utility.
Bard : They can do it all. Buff, Debuff, Heal, Fight, and Face.
So according to the OP, just that summoners entire wealth.... (or double the wealth depending how you read the post.....)If this spell is used to dispel a permanent negative level, it has a material component of diamond dust worth 1,000 gp.
-So if its just fixing ability drain it shouldn't cost 1k gold.
Uhmm... No...
he's not dispelling a permanent negative level so it won't cost the 1k.However, it still isn't free.
It even if 'just' used for ability drain it costs 100gps.
So only 20% of the characters wealth. But that still seems rediculous to me.
To address the OP:
I would suggest monk, master summoner, or bard.
But first, I would suggest a frank adult discussion with the GM.
I wouldn't just walk away as my initial response like many people are suggesting. That makes you seem like a child.
However, if you've tried the discussion, and it doesn't work out, then you may have to leave the campaign.
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Because I think the buffs the Cleric can cast on his ACoArmor Class Zero?
Listen, I'm pretty sure the AC will have an armor class higher than zero. Especially if you buff the AC of the AC.
Or are you thinking of previous editions...THAC0?
...excuse me, I must fall off the fence again...
Jesus stop b%!#*#+#in' the Thread already.
People knew what I meant the first time and I even changed it because someone can't grasp several messages that have the same context will most likely use the same acronyms and that it is in the nature of acronyms that there are billions of them with the same letters but different meanings.
So according to the OP, just that summoners entire wealth.... (or double the wealth depending how you read the post.....)If this spell is used to dispel a permanent negative level, it has a material component of diamond dust worth 1,000 gp.
-So if its just fixing ability drain it shouldn't cost 1k gold.
eh? Ability drain doesn't cost anything to fix.
Got a chance to use my Winged Eidolon a few days ago.
I had to make a DC 24 fly check to have the Eidolon land in a large Canoe.
Tieing a simple knot in a rope required a Dex check of greater than 15. (We failed)
Intelligence checks (DC greater than 11) or Profession (Sailor) checks were required to be able to use an oar in a Canoe. (We failed)
I was told that the eidolon couldn't attack in the water. I was also told that my eidolon was doing too much damage and would be subject to DM review. "There is no way that the eidolon can do acid damage on every claw attack."
In one round I hit with 3 attacks using an enlarged eidolon and did 34 damage (The DM's mouth dropped open), nobody batted an eye when the 2 handed fighter swung for 32 damage with one hit and then cleaved for 39.
I am still trying to figure out how the fighter has a +13 to hit.
Str Mod +5, Fighter Level BAB +5, Weapon focus +1, Weapon +1 Great Sword) and ???.
The game is simply not very fun to play, but any criticism I throw is not taken well at all.
Weapon Training?
By weapon training, do you mean a random buff that the DM simply gave the character? Or would this be something a little more tangible like an actual rule in a book?
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By weapon training, do you mean a random buff that the DM simply gave the character? Or would this be something a little more tangible like an actual rule in a book?
You haven't heard of the Fighter's class feature yet?
You haven't heard of the Fighter's class feature yet?
By weapon training, do you mean a random buff that the DM simply gave the character? Or would this be something a little more tangible like an actual rule in a book?
Damn it. Just when you think you know a class..............
Damn it. Just when you think you know a class..............You haven't heard of the Fighter's class feature yet?
By weapon training, do you mean a random buff that the DM simply gave the character? Or would this be something a little more tangible like an actual rule in a book?
Note that Weapon Master enhances that ability and is a favourite of most Two Handed Weapon Fighters (Falcatta).
The game is simply not very fun to play, but any criticism I throw is not taken well at all.
ANSWER HAVE BEEN FOUND. PROBABLY BEST TO SUNDER ENTIRE PLANET NOW, FIND NEW UNIVERSE FOR CASTY SMASHING.
AM DIRTY FIAT DESIGNED TO KEEP CASTYS UP WITH BARBARIAN, THEN AM TOO MUCH DIRTY FIAT DESIGNED TO MAKE EVERYONE USELESS ALWAYS EXCEPT PET CLASS. BARBARIAN THINK WHICH THIS AM AM SELF EVIDENT.
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Jesus stop b&$+@$@&in' the Thread already.
I knew what you meant the first time.
Everyone knew what you meant the first time. Context is more than enough to let us know when AC means "armor class" and when AC means "animal companion"
My sarcasm isn't directed at you AF!
I was told that the eidolon couldn't attack in the water. I was also told that my eidolon was doing too much damage and would be subject to DM review. "There is no way that the eidolon can do acid damage on every claw attack."In one round I hit with 3 attacks using an enlarged eidolon and did 34 damage (The DM's mouth dropped open), nobody batted an eye when the 2 handed fighter swung for 32 damage with one hit and then cleaved for 39.
First of all you may have done something wrong with the eidolon, this isn't an accusation, the eidolon is a very complicated mechanic and it's quite easy to make a mistake.
Why wouldn't the eidolon be able to attack while underwater? Is it a thematic thing (for example eidolon from the elemental plane of fire)?iirc you can put the energy attack evolution at 5th level plus, was your DM thinking that this evolution has a higher level requirement?
The eidolon's damage seems to be ok for 5th level, so why did your DM thought this was too much? (especially since it was enlarged)
I still can't understand why your DM hasn't banned the summoner class since (as it seems) he doesn't like (for whatever reason) the class. I don't like ninjas and gunslingers so i don't allow them in my games.
I was told that the eidolon couldn't attack in the water. I was also told that my eidolon was doing too much damage and would be subject to DM review. "There is no way that the eidolon can do acid damage on every claw attack."In one round I hit with 3 attacks using an enlarged eidolon and did 34 damage (The DM's mouth dropped open), nobody batted an eye when the 2 handed fighter swung for 32 damage with one hit and then cleaved for 39.
First of all you may have done something wrong with the eidolon, this isn't an accusation, the eidolon is a very complicated mechanic and it's quite easy to make a mistake.
Why wouldn't the eidolon be able to attack while underwater? Is it a thematic thing (for example eidolon from the elemental plane of fire)?
iirc you can put the energy attack evolution at 5th level plus, was your DM thinking that this evolution has a higher level requirement?
The eidolon's damage seems to be ok for 5th level, so why did your DM thought this was too much? (especially since it was enlarged)I still can't understand why your DM hasn't banned the summoner class since (as it seems) he doesn't like (for whatever reason) the class. I don't like ninjas and gunslingers so i don't allow them in my games.
The funny part is that I initially wanted to play a Sorcerer, but the DM said that I should play the summoner. To quote my DM, "I have always wanted to see how a summoner works."
The whole reason that the eidolon's damage has jumped is because between 4th and 5th level my effective total attack bonus jumped by 2, one for strength increases and one for base attack bonus increases. The DM wanted the energy attacks to only count on one of the natural attacks instead of all 4. As far as the water thing, he said that the eidolon swings its claw attacks slower in the water, so it can't land an effective hit with proper accuracy. When I asked about the aquatic archetype, his response was "Well you don't have an aquatic type."
The DM did seem happy that my main combat action with my character as opposed to the eidolon was to cast acid splash or fire a cross bow bolt that missed. The Eidolon wasn't getting hit much as he has a 22 armor class using my 1 magic item.
It just feels like less of an adventure game and more of a screw me over game.
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Okay, well the water thing has some basis in the rules. Unless the eidolons attacks were piercing attacks anyway.
But.... but.... there are rules for underwater melee combat....really there are in the core book.....
Anyway it seems that your DM saw a summoner and decided he doesn't like it, so ask him to retire and/or kill this character and play a class that he doesn't have a problem with.
Again i don't see anything wrong with a DM disliking a class, it is wrong however to screw with the player playing that class instead don't let them play that class.
...eh? Ability drain doesn't cost anything to fix.
from PRD
Restoration
School conjuration (healing); Level cleric 4, paladin 4
Casting Time 1 minute
Components V, S, M (diamond dust worth 100 gp or 1,000 gp, see text)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
This spell functions like lesser restoration, except that it also dispels temporary negative levels or one permanent negative level. If this spell is used to dispel a permanent negative level, it has a material component of diamond dust worth 1,000 gp. This spell cannot be used to dispel more than one permanent negative level possessed by a target in a 1-week period.
Restoration cures all temporary ability damage, and it restores all points permanently drained from a single ability score (your choice if more than one is drained). It also eliminates any fatigue or exhaustion suffered by the target.
Look on the components line. It is 100 if it is not the 1000 special case.
Look on the components line. It is 100 if it is not the 1000 special case.
I'm watching an NCIS marathon.
I'll headslap myself now.
Why not a monk with the vow of poverty? This is particularly viable if there is a friendly caster that can cast mage armor on the monk.
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Got a chance to use my Winged Eidolon a few days ago.
I had to make a DC 24 fly check to have the Eidolon land in a large Canoe.
Tieing a simple knot in a rope required a Dex check of greater than 15. (We failed)
Intelligence checks (DC greater than 11) or Profession (Sailor) checks were required to be able to use an oar in a Canoe. (We failed)
I was told that the eidolon couldn't attack in the water. I was also told that my eidolon was doing too much damage and would be subject to DM review. "There is no way that the eidolon can do acid damage on every claw attack."
In one round I hit with 3 attacks using an enlarged eidolon and did 34 damage (The DM's mouth dropped open), nobody batted an eye when the 2 handed fighter swung for 32 damage with one hit and then cleaved for 39.
I am still trying to figure out how the fighter has a +13 to hit.
Str Mod +5, Fighter Level BAB +5, Weapon focus +1, Weapon +1 Great Sword) and ???.The game is simply not very fun to play, but any criticism I throw is not taken well at all.
If it wasnt so sad, it would reeeaaalllly funny. That said the DC 15 for a simple knot is pretty impressive.
Is this game reall more fun than sitting alone in your basement, in total darkness ?
But.... but.... there are rules for underwater melee combat....really there are in the core book.....
Anyway it seems that your DM saw a summoner and decided he doesn't like it, so ask him to retire and/or kill this character and play a class that he doesn't have a problem with.
Again i don't see anything wrong with a DM disliking a class, it is wrong however to screw with the player playing that class instead don't let them play that class.
THIS!!!111
And once you make a new character make a Cleric or a Sorcerer (probably with the Sylvan Bloodline) and be sure to take the Boon Companion Feat. For underwater Scenarios you can even summon special creatures!
I should have just demanded that my character be allowed to perform the "Boatduken" and be done with my rowing problems.
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Because I think the buffs the Cleric can cast on his ACo
Armor Class Zero?
Listen, I'm pretty sure the AC will have an armor class higher than zero. Especially if you buff the AC of the AC.
Or are you thinking of previous editions...THAC0?
...excuse me, I must fall off the fence again...
Jesus stop b&$+@$@&in' the Thread already.
I knew what you meant the first time.
Everyone knew what you meant the first time. Context is more than enough to let us know when AC means "armor class" and when AC means "animal companion"
My sarcasm isn't directed at you AF!
I'm not sure if your sarcasm is directed at my slightly cheeky response, or at how worked up Nemitri was getting over the whole thing, but you sir, just made my night.
I'm not sure if your sarcasm is directed at my slightly cheeky response, or at how worked up Nemitri was getting over the whole thing, but you sir, just made my night.
For Nemitri.
I definitely understand the complaint if the context of the post doesn't make it obvious what you mean by AC.
However, when the context of the post is crystal clear (as it was in the post he was referring to), then it's blatantly obvious when he uses AC he means Animal Companion not Armor Class.
Complaining that AC means Armor Class, not Animal Companion even though the post was clear is like correcting spelling or grammar when the post is clear, it's snobbery. (We all know what the guy who wants help figuring out how to make his rouge do more damage means)
Nemitri knew where I was aiming, though I don't think he was impressed:
I see you are as smug as your character profile, treantmonk, heck it even deserves 5 stars...blue if you will...
At least he obviously has a sense of humor.
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However, when the context of the post is crystal clear (as it was in the post he was referring to), then it's blatantly obvious when he uses AC he means Animal Companion not Armor Class.
Complaining that AC means Armor Class, not Animal Companion even though the post was clear is like correcting spelling or grammar when the post is clear, it's snobbery. (We all know what the guy who wants help figuring out how to make his rouge do more damage means)
I'll admit to jumping into the middle without reading all of the preceding posts, but I read several posts where, while it was obvious that AC wasn't Armor Class, I didn't really know what the hell it was referring to. And frankly, none of the posts were interesting enough to make me look any further back to see if I could figure it out. They just made more more likely to discount any future posts by the same poster, since he can't be bothered to make his posts clear. If anything, it's much more smug/snobbish to assume that people give enough of a damn about your posts to bother to figure out what your non-standard abbreviations stand for.
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We all know what the guy who wants help figuring out how to make his rouge do more damage means
That you want your prostitute character to do more damage when sneak attacking with her lipstick? - or perhaps that you want your personal lipstick to do more damage, and you may or may not be a prostitute? :P
I'll admit to jumping into the middle without reading all of the preceding posts, but I read several posts where, while it was obvious that AC wasn't Armor Class, I didn't really know what the hell it was referring to. And frankly, none of the posts were interesting enough to make me look any further back to see if I could figure it out. They just made more more likely to discount any future posts by the same poster, since he can't be bothered to make his posts clear. If anything, it's much more smug/snobbish to assume that people give enough of a damn about your posts to bother to figure out what your non-standard abbreviations stand for.
Ouch. Good point though. Especially when the explanation/context isnt on the same page anymore. People would get pretty confused if I shortened barbarian to Bab, and theyd probably assume I just didnt hold shift long enough.
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That you want your prostitute character to do more damage when sneak attacking with her lipstick?
Exactly.
... but I read several posts where, while it was obvious that AC wasn't Armor Class, I didn't really know what the hell it was referring to...
I have to admit, I was a bit confused also. But I was also running on low sleep and not enough caffine. Maybe on a regular day I would have caught it.
I'll admit to jumping into the middle without reading all of the preceding posts, but I read several posts where, while it was obvious that AC wasn't Armor Class, I didn't really know what the hell it was referring to. And frankly, none of the posts were interesting enough to make me look any further back to see if I could figure it out. They just made more more likely to discount any future posts by the same poster, since he can't be bothered to make his posts clear. If anything, it's much more smug/snobbish to assume that people give enough of a damn about your posts to bother to figure out what your non-standard abbreviations stand for.However, when the context of the post is crystal clear (as it was in the post he was referring to), then it's blatantly obvious when he uses AC he means Animal Companion not Armor Class.
Complaining that AC means Armor Class, not Animal Companion even though the post was clear is like correcting spelling or grammar when the post is clear, it's snobbery. (We all know what the guy who wants help figuring out how to make his rouge do more damage means)
Thats why you start a text at the beginning and stop at the last page.
You wouldn't complain that you didn't get whats up in a Book if you skip the first 100 pages, or?
How do you think this could possibly work out when many different people talk to each other? ^^
But I will use ACo in the future.
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My apologies if it's already been suggested, but have you tried looking for a game on Obsidian Portal? There's a map where you can see every game that's been entered on the site, and you can narrow the search by game. There could be a game you weren't aware of in your area, and they might be looking for players. Otherwise, how many players are in your group? Would any of them be willing/able to DM? PDF's of adventures are fairly cheap on this website. Heck, start the new DM out with the 'Goblins' adventure here on the Pathfinder site, it's free to download. Nearly everyone in my group also DM's at some point. If your current DM can't adapt and isn't fun, show him the door.
If none of that is an option, introduce a board game night. Yes, it's not Pathfinder, but you won't need a DM, you'll still get together and you might even have fun.
If even that is not a possibility, I would suggest you all go bowling. That way no one has fun, including the DM.
...If even that is not a possibility, I would suggest you all go bowling. That way no one has fun, including the DM.
+1
I've seen this issue in few Adventure Paths. Like King Maker for example, the first two books are rather light on treasure. If you miss out on few spots where you could gain some you come out well below what you should have. I know my players were grumbling something fierce about that. Now that we are finished the 3rd book that is no longer an issue and they just over the WBL amount at 10th level now but at 5th they were about 1/5 of what they should have had. They could have gotten more but they missed several spots where treasure was hidden.
I saw this same issue with Council of Thieves.
Now as what Character play if wealth is lacking. I find the 3/4 BAB classes that are spontaneous casters work the best. The Inquisitor, Bard, Summoner, and Alchemist seem to quite well with low wealth.
I've seen this issue in few Adventure Paths...
I saw this same issue with Council of Thieves.
Amen to that!
The AP's seem REALLY bad at maintaining WBL, the loot allocations are terrible.
It's always better to leave these types of games. ALWAYS.
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Suggestion to the Original poster for class selection. Please read THIS.
The true and proper way to play a Summoner(Master Summoner) without the need for much gold... lol
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Whether or not you ignore the Wealth By Level tables... it's VERY important for the GM to be familiar with why they're there anyway. Because one of the things Pathfinder assumes is that the PCs WILL have treasure of a certain amount by certain levels. If you're playing in a game where character wealth is super low, the GM should take pains to adjust encounters as appropriate.
And when a new PC joins the group, he REALLY should give that new PC wealth equal to the average possessed by the party—a situation where the average PC wealth is 500 and a newly created character would have 10,500 is blatantly unfair and disrespectful of the players who HAVE played their characters.
Agreed... I don't play often, as I've got Perpetual-DM Syndrome, but one of the last campaigns I played in we had really been struggling in an epic end-of-the-world-if-you-don't-save-the-day scenario; the PCs were the world's last hope. By 7th level we were still struggling for magic items as the ones we found were very minor stuff (never over +1) and we were on a clock so there was no downtime to craft our own. So when the DM brought in his girlfriend to play and she started her elven ranger with a +2 Brilliant Holy Composite Longbow and a couple +2 Undead Bane shortswords, there was a very real Player mutiny. Although we initially fought our way past the tears and recriminations phase, the hurt feelings were very real, and as the DM had lost the player's trust, the campaign fizzled out and died very shortly thereafter.
Moral of this story: If DM's use their power to play favorites or carry out grudge matches against specific players, they lose trust and respect from their players. I don't believe any game can survive without both of those traits.