An attempt at a constructive solution


Advanced Race Guide Playtest


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I hate to say this, especially as my first post (a friend just introduced me to Pathfinder), but I currently do not find the ARG useful. The entire purpose of purchasing such a manual would be to be able to make new, balanced races, sometimes from the get-go. Especially with the way the base stats are purchased, which are confusing and make little sense. The system presented is not useful for balancing races, and trying to figure out costs for new abilities to fit in line only creates more of a headache - I am literally better off just eyeballing race design.

It doesn't help that it doesn't segue well into e.g. template creation.

So, here would be my proposal: Base everything off of its point buy value. Judge the worth of a racial feature or penalty by how many attribute points you would trade it for at character creation.

It won't be perfect, but it makes it a lot easier for GMs who wish to balance their game. They can give the players the option to spend a number of attribute points to pick a new race.

In addition, I am not going to start with the notion that races are balanced. This was expressly not true in OD&D where elves could don armor and cast spells with impunity while swinging a sword just as well as their equivalent-leveled human friends in either arena. It was expressly stated that the reason for this lack of balance was to convince people to play the demihumans.

I think we're past that.

Major Caveat: This will end up being more balanced at lower point buy totals for standard races (~20 and under) than higher ones. GMs running 30 point and up games should be aware of this and consider compensating lower race point totals accordingly.

Stat allocation:

A single floating racial bonus, such as a human's, is weighted as if they spent nine points in that attribute - 6 points for a +2, 14 points for a +4, 24 points for a +6, 36 points for a +8, 50 points for +10, and so on.

An additional floating racial bonus, or a fixed physical bonus, is weighted as if they spent five points in that attribute, +1 for each +2. 5 points for +2, 12 points for a +4, 21 points for a +6, 32 points for a +8, 45 points for a +10, and so on.

A fixed mental bonus, or a fifth/sixth floating bonus, is worth as if five points were allocated. 4/10/18/28/40

A penalty to a physical attribute is worth a negative number of points equal to 1.5x said penalty. -3 points for -2, -6 points for -4, -9 points for -6.

A penalty to int or wis is worth the raw penalty - -2/-4/-6. This should be halved if a GM does not trust a given player to play these scores, however.

A penalty to charisma is worth half of this - -1 for a -2, -2 for a -4, -3 for a -6. This might not be worth anything at all in some games.

So, stat allocation points per race:

Dwarves: 8
Everyone else in core: 6

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Languages:
Standard 7-language array available, plus bonus racial tongue in addition to Trade Tongue (Common or undercommon): 0 points
Can learn any language, starts with only Common or undercommon: 0 points. GMs who wave the first limitation on other races should consider giving out national tongues.
Xenophobic race knows only its racial tongue, can't learn any others without spending skill points: -1 point
Additional fixed language: +1 point
Truespeech: 3 points
Telepathy (short range): 5 points, or 4 points if has truespeech already.

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Skills and proficiencies:
+2 bonus to perception in limited circumstances: 1 point
+2 fixed bonus to a skill: 1 point, 2 if Perception
+2 floating bonus to a single skill of a skill class (knowledge, craft, etc.): 1 point
Given skill is always considered a class skill: 1 point, 2 if Perception
Floating Skill focus or Sill Bonus (Negotiator, etc) feat: 3 points
Skilled racial trait (+1 skill point/level, raising minimum skill points per level by one): 3 points
Class of weapons are considered Martial: 1 point

A single +2 'racial flavor' bonus to a non-perception skill under limited circumstances (Dwarven Greed, Elven Magic Spellcraft, etc) is not worth any points.

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Base Land Speed:

40 feet: 5 points
30 feet: 0 points
20 feet: -5 points
Steady (Speed not affected by armor or encumbrance): +2 points

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Size: Size requires at least a given strength bonus or penalty, which must be purchased accordingly as part of the racial package - there is no 'discount' for getting more strength as Large.

Tiny: Requires -4 Str
Small: Requires -2 Str
Medium: -
Large: Requires +2 Str
Huge: Requires +4 Str

A GM may wish to double these. Regardless, size bonuses and penalties are not considered to cost or provide any points.

----

Lifespan:
Half-orc and Human: 0 points
Halfling/Half-elf: 1 point
Dwarf/Gnome: 2 points
Elf: 3 points

Immortal/Immune to aging penalties: 4 points

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Spell-like Abilities:
1 point for Gnomish set

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Vision:
Low-Light Vision: 1 point
Enhanced low-light vision (four times as far as a human in dark): 2 points
Darkvision: 1 point per 30 feet
Sound-based blindsight: 1 point per 10 feet
Tremorsense: 1 point per 30 feet

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Miscellaneous:
+1 to DCs for a specific school: 1 point
+2 bonus to saves versus a specific school: 1 point
Immune to a limited type of magic (Sleep, etc): 1 point
+2 bonus to saves versus any spell or spell-like ability: 3 points
+2 bonus to saves versus poison -or- disease: 1 point
+2 bonus to penetrate SR: 1 point
Half-Blood - count as two races for all effects: 0 points (It's a blessing and a curse)
Bonus general feat: 5 points
Racial Hatred - +1 bonus to attacks versus two enemy types: 1 point
Defensive Training - +4 dodge bonus to AC versus a single enemy type: 1 point
Stability - +4 bonus to CMD versus Bull-rush or Trip attempts: 1 point
Additional Favored Class: 2 points
Half-orc ferocity: 1 point
Full-orc ferocity: 2 points

----

Total racial breakdown
Dwarves: 18 points
Elves: 16 points
Gnomes: 14 points
Half-elves: 17 points
Half-orcs: 11 points
Humans: 14 points

Thoughts/criticism/whatever welcome, I didn't agonize over the numbers, exactly.


Sounds a hell of a lot more honest at least. I'm ready to stop pretending Charisma is on the same playing field as the other ability scores.

I'm a little suspicious of the high value of the half-elf, but all in all it sounds about right. I think "additional favored class" is awfully campaign/group specific. No one in my game has seriously considered multiclassing, and that half-elf ability receives no attention or value as a result.


It was official balancing policy in 3.0 even. +2 Str was worth -2 to two mental stats.

A lot of stuff is player specific. Much of Elven and Gnomish magic is only useful to their spellcasters, for example, and they end up paying for it regardless of whether they take the ability - however, the Advanced Player's Guide lets them swap better options in, instead, so it's important not to just throw the bonus out, in my opinion.


This definitely looks closer to what I imagine. Personally, I would value the ability scores as follows:

#1: Dexterity. This affects ranged attacks, finessed weapons, Reflex saves, Armor Class, and Initiative. Easily the most influential stat in the game.

#2: Strength, Constitution and Wisdom. Strength affects melee attacks, damage and carrying capacity; Con provides hit points and bumps your Fort save, and Wis affects a lot of important skills plus Will save. These all have a pretty big impact.

#3: Intelligence and Charisma. These are the "niche stats". Int and Cha only really benefit certain classes, plus specific skill groups (knowledge and social). Only classes that get shorted on skill points really need the skill bump. While Cha doesn't provide any other inherent benefits (even minor ones) like Int does, some of the more powerful classes (and class abilities) in the game run off of Cha, not to mention pretty much all spell-like abilities.


A very nice starting point. Seriously, great job. A couple of nitpicks, though.

The stat system is a bit too complex for me to understand at my current level of sleepiness, but I'm not convinced about weighting stat penalties differently. Charisma, sure. But the rest... I don't know. Class and build make everything useful in its own way, to the point I don't know if certain stats will always be more valuable than others.

Lifespan isn't necessary. You've done a good job of basing costs on actual gameplay value, until here. Except in really weird campaigns, the ability to live longer just doesn't matter. It is purely a fluff decision, and fluff shouldn't cost.

I would argue you are undervaluing alternate forms of vision. I'd take 60' of darkvision over double, quadruple, or any other multiple of Low-Light Vision. Also, any area of tremorsense or blindsense makes invisibility and sneaking far less relevant. Maybe a higher initial cost (say 5), with an additional point per X feet?

Overall though, awesome job. I would be overjoyed if the official rules resembled something like this.


LadyWurm:

The reason I valued Strength, Con and Dex as equal is because originally, the 3.0 team valued Strength at the top - the ability to hit and do damage was balanced against the ability to avoid it (Dex) and take it (Con). With poisons being more vicious in Pathfinder, and the ability of feats to move more of Str's benefits to Dex, it seems they are somewhat more balanced now. Regardless, all of the physical stats provide some benefit to all classes, even wizards and sorceresses. The converse is not nearly as true.

I lump Int with Wis (and Cha on bonuses) because while Wisdom is useful for Will saves, Perception and Sense Motive, these are somewhat more situational than the typical Pathfinder game, much as the value of Knowledge and Craft can be. A GM who uses knowledge, languages, and allows crafting appropriately can see a game where Int means more than Wisdom does.

Charisma is only penalized when it's being used in dump mode. Obviously, when it's a bonus, it can be worth a great deal. But the penalties it implies tend not to get portrayed all that well.

Your mileage may vary, of course, just expressing my reasoning : )

Mort: The stats probably need a table, even if you make all the bonuses the same. I'd still lobby for halving the value of a charisma penalty, however.

Lifespan depends on the game, I suppose. I was waffling on it, for sure. Maybe something like extended lifespan, extra languages and the situational +2 skill bonuses could be considered 'fluff traits'. One is free, two costs a point. Drop the extra favored class to one point and most of the races show up as well-balanced.

You're probably right about the senses, for the most part. I wouldn't necessarily agree about darkvision, though - you'd take it, I'd take continual flame, or a spell. 60' is not that far.

I certainly underpriced blindsight and tremorsense, though. Could do a base of 5+, alternately could use a higher point-per-range, 4 points per 10 feet for echolocation (reasonable, blind humans have developed the ability, and 'see' about as far as a bat does, though not nearly as well), 3 points per 10 feet for tremorsense, say.

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